Author Topic: Billionaire Richard Branson: America should give out free cash to fix income inequality  (Read 4923 times)

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Online Right_in_Virginia

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Billionaire Richard Branson: America should give out free cash to fix income inequality
CNBC, Jul 2, 2018, Catherine Clifford

One solution to income inequality is giving out free cash, according to the British billionaire entrepreneur Richard Branson.
 
“A basic income should be introduced in Europe and in America,” Branson told David Gelles of The New York Times.

Branson was responding to the question, “What do you think those in positions of power should do to address social problems like income inequality?”

***

A universal basic income, as it's known, is a cash payment distributed to residents irrespective of their employment status.

Further, there are other reasons for cash handouts, according to Branson.

“I think with artificial intelligence coming along, there needs to be a basic income,” said Branson.

Gelles asked whether that's because robots will replace human jobs. “Because of job displacement?” Gelles asked.


More:  https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/02/virgin-groups-richard-branson-on-universal-basic-income.html

Offline Smokin Joe

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OPM, but is he sending out random checks?
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

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Well gee, Branson, after you.  When you put your money where your mouth is (and are living in a mud hut)...

This concept is exactly as irrelevant as the minimum wage, and every bit as ineffective.

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You first, Dick.
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Offline WingNot

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Those balloon flights and the lack of Oxygen to his brain are showing the latent effects.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Abundance of unfilled jobs for 115+ IQs

Abundance or idle workers with 85- IQs

What to do with a workforce made obsolete by technology?
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline roamer_1

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Abundance of unfilled jobs for 115+ IQs

Abundance or idle workers with 85- IQs

What to do with a workforce made obsolete by technology?

Tell them to stop looking for jobs and start looking for work.

Offline mountaineer

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You first, Dick.
Seriously,  why don't all these self righteous gazillionaires give away all their money?  Until they do,  we are not obligated to listen to them.
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Offline skeeter

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Those balloon flights and the lack of Oxygen to his brain are showing the latent effects.

Branson has always cared about the poor. Here he is providing a lift for a needy person who couldn't even afford clothing.


Online Cyber Liberty

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Seriously,  why don't all these self righteous gazillionaires give away all their money?  Until they do,  we are not obligated to listen to them.

Damned straight.  They need to lead by example.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Branson has always cared about the poor. Here he is providing a lift for a needy person who couldn't even afford clothing.



I hope he gave that poor girl a cheeseburger.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline WingNot

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I hope he gave that poor girl a cheeseburger.

That would be more than his meal.
"I'm a man, but I changed, because I had to. Oh well."

Offline Smokin Joe

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I hope he gave that poor girl a cheeseburger.
Likely a hot dog...,
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline ABX

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Which would devalue the currency and explode income inequality but lock it in as it is now a government entitlement.

BTW, if anyone is interested, I would suggest two Robert Heinlein books, For Us the Living and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.

Although not directly in a series, they somewhat address this point. The former actually creates the utopian world view centered around a universal basic income, exactly like what many are pushing now. He wrote it like the dream utopia being pushed by the US Communists/socialists of his time (UBI isn't a new concept at all- it is what the Communist party here has been pushing for almost a century).

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is somewhat of a follow up book (although different characters and a much later time) that shows the result of the utopia- a slave class of people forced into doing the hard work (moon mining) while those on the surface enjoy a 'guaranteed luxury lifestyle'. (and subsequent rebellion against such)

If one reads these novels from the perspective of the politics and philosophy he was examining, it is a very telling look at much of what we are debating now, written a century ago.



...and as a bit of an additional note, we all have heard of the Cloward Piven strategy of collapsing the system- but what most don't ever get into is what they wanted to replace it with. A UBI which they called a new communism.


Offline WingNot

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Likely a hot dog...,

give that man a cigar......

Oh wait. 
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Offline Smokin Joe

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give that man a cigar......

Oh wait.
Would you take a Macanudo from Bill Clinton?
It's all in the humidor....
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline darroll

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Take all of the money back and dole it out evenly.
The rich would become rich and the poor would get poor. 8888crybaby

Offline Smokin Joe

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Take all of the money back and dole it out evenly.
The rich would become rich and the poor would get poor. 8888crybaby
Exactly. There would be a very few changes in the lineup, but for the most part, by the third generation the asset disparities would be like they are now.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline WingNot

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Would you take a Macanudo from Bill Clinton?
It's all in the humidor....

Did Bubba ever get the fish smell out of his stash?
"I'm a man, but I changed, because I had to. Oh well."

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Did Bubba ever get the fish smell out of his stash?

Not our problem.  Billy took the humidor with him, along with everything else that wasn't nailed down.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline WingNot

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Not our problem.  Billy took the humidor with him, along with everything else that wasn't nailed down.

I remember that!  They were forced to return the Reagan China!  Not much else tho.   We probably saved thousands of historic items in the Whitehouse from being pilfered by the other clinton being "1st runner up"!..
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Offline Smokin Joe

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I remember that!  They were forced to return the Reagan China!  Not much else tho.   We probably saved thousands of historic items in the Whitehouse from being pilfered by the other clinton being "1st runner up"!..
I think they had to return some of the silverware, too...
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline thackney

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I think they had to return some of the silverware, too...

and:

two sofas,
an easy chair,
an ottoman,
a kitchen table,
four chairs,
another sofa,
lamps,
a needlepoint rug...

 $28,000 worth of furniture the Clintons took with them upon leaving the White House was returned in February 2001, according to the National Park Service.

https://www.factcheck.org/2016/05/the-clinton-furniture-flap/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/01/21/clintons-take-away-190000-in-gifts/36773cf2-8120-4d58-b903-d76d39a6cc3f/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d992029d0e1f
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Offline WingNot

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and:

two sofas,
an easy chair,
an ottoman,
a kitchen table,
four chairs,
another sofa,
lamps,
a needlepoint rug...

 $28,000 worth of furniture the Clintons took with them upon leaving the White House was returned in February 2001, according to the National Park Service.

https://www.factcheck.org/2016/05/the-clinton-furniture-flap/



https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/01/21/clintons-take-away-190000-in-gifts/36773cf2-8120-4d58-b903-d76d39a6cc3f/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d992029d0e1f

Holy shit Batman.  Where hell did they think they lived....section 8 housing?
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Offline thackney

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Holy shit Batman.  Where hell did they think they lived....section 8 housing?

That is only what they agreed to return.  They kept far more in gifts they claimed were to them, not to the white house.
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That is only what they agreed to return.  They kept far more in gifts they claimed were to them, not to the white house.

They returned the ones the donors of which came forward and said, "I donated that to the White House, not to the Clintons."  Knowing what we do about the Clintons willingness to destroy (or kill) people who cross them, that's probably only a fraction of what they stole.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline LMAO

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Finland tried this.

Found they couldn't afford this. And, as another poster, to do this you would have to devalue the currency which would exacerbate the "income inequality."

I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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Offline GrouchoTex

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Exactly. There would be a very few changes in the lineup, but for the most part, by the third generation the asset disparities would be like they are now.
@Smokin Joe @darroll
Y'all or right on target here.
Recently, there was a company in the west (Seattle?, Portland?) that gave all the employees equal pay.
Decent wages, I seem to recall 75k.
It went bankrupt.

Offline Smokin Joe

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@Smokin Joe @darroll
Y'all or right on target here.
Recently, there was a company in the west (Seattle?, Portland?) that gave all the employees equal pay.
Decent wages, I seem to recall 75k.
It went bankrupt.
Years ago I turned down a job from a local businessman which was not oil patch related. I told him, simply, I doubt I can be worth as much to him as I was already making where I was.

Every employee is an investment, and the employer should be able to make a return on that investment. !/3 wages, 1/3 overhead/materials, and 1/3 profit (some or all of which gets rolled back in in improvements or expansion). is a good rule of thumb.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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This isn't a bad idea, if it would replace all other forms of welfare. Nobody ever asks them about this.

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Offline ABX

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This isn't a bad idea, if it would replace all other forms of welfare. Nobody ever asks them about this.

That is actually the point this pushes, why the Communist Party in the US has been pushing this idea  for almost a century.

It is one giant welfare program where everyone is on it and everyone is dependent on the government.

It is the end goal of 'Cloward Piven' collapse the current welfare system under it's own weight and replace it with this type of program.

It is a horrid and dangerous idea.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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That is actually the point this pushes, why the Communist Party in the US has been pushing this idea  for almost a century.

It is one giant welfare program where everyone is on it and everyone is dependent on the government.

It is the end goal of 'Cloward Piven' collapse the current welfare system under it's own weight and replace it with this type of program.

It is a horrid and dangerous idea.

I don't see much difference between this and like, disability? We all know disability is heavily abused in the US, for example.

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That is actually the point this pushes, why the Communist Party in the US has been pushing this idea  for almost a century.

It is one giant welfare program where everyone is on it and everyone is dependent on the government.

It is the end goal of 'Cloward Piven' collapse the current welfare system under it's own weight and replace it with this type of program.

It is a horrid and dangerous idea.

It's how you end up with everybody living in assigned unpainted, cast-concrete houses and pretending to work at jobs.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline ABX

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I don't see much difference between this and like, disability? We all know disability is heavily abused in the US, for example.

Currently 19% of the population is on some sort of disability.

How is making that 100% an improvement?

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Branson has always cared about the poor. Here he is providing a lift for a needy person who couldn't even afford clothing.



This is probably our future, we will be too poor to afford clothing, and will have to wear naked women to survive the winter.

Offline The_Reader_David

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Branson is right.  Charles Murray has run the numbers and a universal basic income program as a replacement for all other poverty alleviation and income transfer programs (including Social Security) would be cheaper than what we do now (his proposal was $10K per year plus $3K for catastrophic health insurance) -- see his book In Our Hands: A plan to replace the welfare state.

Unlike needs-based income transfer programs, this scheme removes the disincentive to work created by what is functionally a confiscatory tax rate on the first dollars earned -- loss of benefits not being made up for by income from work -- an effect which has created the permanent underclass in America.  The savings come from the abolition of the massive bureaucracies that exist at the federal and state levels to determine eligibility for needs-based benefits.  Nor is the cost equal to the amount paid times the number of recipients (under Murray's proposal all legal residents 21 years of age or older) since the money is taxable income -- the money is recouped at the top-marginal rate for the recipient.

This proposal will become more and more urgent as we approach the point where all jobs that can be reliably and enjoyably done by persons of average intelligence or below (including picking soft fruit and prostitution) can be more reliably and economically done by AI-driven robots, along with a fair number that require a good deal more intelligence (radiology is already better done by AI than by a board-certified radiologist, and a lot of routine legal work can readily be automated, though the bar will surely get Luddite measures through all the state legislatures to forbid lawyer-bots,...).  No, there will not be new jobs for those of below average intelligence created by the new economy, what's worse the amount of intelligence required to do the new jobs created by AI displacing human brain-power will increase until eventually only people with IQs of 120, then 135, then 150,... will be able to find work for which their efforts produce enough value to pay a meaningful wage. 

Take your pick:  the vast majority of humanity even in the developed world out of work and in grinding poverty, a UBI,  or the "Butlerian jihad" from the Dune novels ("thou shalt not make a graven image of the human mind" and smashing all AI-driven devices to implement the new commandment.)  Somehow I like the UBI.
And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know what this was all about.

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Branson is right.  Charles Murray has run the numbers and a universal basic income program as a replacement for all other poverty alleviation and income transfer programs (including Social Security) would be cheaper than what we do now (his proposal was $10K per year plus $3K for catastrophic health insurance) -- see his book In Our Hands: A plan to replace the welfare state.

Unlike needs-based income transfer programs, this scheme removes the disincentive to work created by what is functionally a confiscatory tax rate on the first dollars earned -- loss of benefits not being made up for by income from work -- an effect which has created the permanent underclass in America.  The savings come from the abolition of the massive bureaucracies that exist at the federal and state levels to determine eligibility for needs-based benefits.  Nor is the cost equal to the amount paid times the number of recipients (under Murray's proposal all legal residents 21 years of age or older) since the money is taxable income -- the money is recouped at the top-marginal rate for the recipient.

This proposal will become more and more urgent as we approach the point where all jobs that can be reliably and enjoyably done by persons of average intelligence or below (including picking soft fruit and prostitution) can be more reliably and economically done by AI-driven robots, along with a fair number that require a good deal more intelligence (radiology is already better done by AI than by a board-certified radiologist, and a lot of routine legal work can readily be automated, though the bar will surely get Luddite measures through all the state legislatures to forbid lawyer-bots,...).  No, there will not be new jobs for those of below average intelligence created by the new economy, what's worse the amount of intelligence required to do the new jobs created by AI displacing human brain-power will increase until eventually only people with IQs of 120, then 135, then 150,... will be able to find work for which their efforts produce enough value to pay a meaningful wage. 

Take your pick:  the vast majority of humanity even in the developed world out of work and in grinding poverty, a UBI,  or the "Butlerian jihad" from the Dune novels ("thou shalt not make a graven image of the human mind" and smashing all AI-driven devices to implement the new commandment.)  Somehow I like the UBI.

Unless the AI and robots you worry over are costless, this will never come to pass for the simple reason that if everyone were unemployed, only a few people - the wealthy - could afford to buy all these wonderful robot-provided goods and services, with the result that by and large, the investment in such AI and robots will never pay for itself. 

Will AI and Robots take on some work?  Sure.  Will they end up with most work?  No. 

Offline GrouchoTex

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Years ago I turned down a job from a local businessman which was not oil patch related. I told him, simply, I doubt I can be worth as much to him as I was already making where I was.

Every employee is an investment, and the employer should be able to make a return on that investment. !/3 wages, 1/3 overhead/materials, and 1/3 profit (some or all of which gets rolled back in in improvements or expansion). is a good rule of thumb.

Exactly, which the 1/3 rule is what makes sense.

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People forget something about the "robots take our jerbs" arguments: the same robots that take "muh jerbs" will also be available for home purchase. So you won't really have a need to work, as your AI robot will do anything anyway. Everything you spend money on today will be done by a robot.


Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Currently 19% of the population is on some sort of disability.

How is making that 100% an improvement?
Where did that number come from?  that would equate to 61 million people.

Here's what the govt says about those receiving SS disability.  It is 10.4 million (workers + dependents).

https://www.ssa.gov/news/press/factsheets/basicfact-alt.pdf
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Offline dfwgator

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People forget something about the "robots take our jerbs" arguments: the same robots that take "muh jerbs" will also be available for home purchase. So you won't really have a need to work, as your AI robot will do anything anyway. Everything you spend money on today will be done by a robot.

In the year 5555
Your arms hanging limp at your sides
Your legs got nothing to do
Some machine is doing that for you