Irish Times exit poll projects Ireland has voted by landslide to repeal Eighth

[Suppressed]

Irish Times exit poll projects Ireland has voted by landslide to repeal Eighth
Exit poll result suggests huge majority of younger people voted Yes
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-times-exit-poll-projects-ireland-has-voted-by-landslide-to-repeal-eighth-1.3508861

Ireland has voted by a landslide margin to change the Constitution so that abortion can be legalised, according to an exit poll conducted for The Irish Times by Ipsos MRBI.

The poll suggests that the margin of victory for the Yes side in the referendum will be 68 per cent to 32 per cent – a stunning victory for the Yes side after a long and often divisive campaign.

[...]

[Gefn]

This is huge. A major news story that's being buried in the US news

[Suppressed]

This is huge. A major news story that's being buried in the US news

Why would they bury it?? @Freya 

I'd have thought they'd be crowing!

[Sanguine]

I heard something last night about foreign money pouring into the campaign.  Didn't say if the money was on the "yes" or "no" side, and how they were seeking to influence the election. 

[massadvj]

NPR has been all over it, as one might expect.  Ireland has gone the way of the rest of Europe.  Catholic no more.  Heck, even the pope seems not to be Catholic these days.

[Suppressed]

I think that US conservatives need to prepare for post-Christian America. Sticking our heads into the sand won't help.

[Jazzhead]

It has been widely reported in the mainstream press in these parts.   It is the way of the world these days.   The state is secular, and the rights that the state guarantees are secular rights.   Including, it appears in Ireland, a woman's right to choose whether to bear a child. 

I disagree with @Suppressed 's suggestion that we prepare for a post-Christian America.   Christianity is alive and well, because its message is sound.  But Christians must rely on the strength of that message, not the endorsement of the government.  The government will not enforce Christian moral values under the criminal law.   It is up to Christians to persuade others of their wisdom and relevancy. 

That is as it should be.     

[Suppressed]

But Christians must rely on the strength of that message, not the endorsement of the government.  The government will not enforce Christian moral values under the criminal law.   It is up to Christians to persuade others of their wisdom and relevancy. 

That is as it should be.     

 

Well said, @Jazzhead

[aligncare]

It has been widely reported in the mainstream press in these parts.   It is the way of the world these days.   The state is secular, and the rights that the state guarantees are secular rights.   Including, it appears in Ireland, a woman's right to choose whether to bear a child. 

I disagree with @Suppressed 's suggestion that we prepare for a post-Christian America.   Christianity is alive and well, because its message is sound.  But Christians must rely on the strength of that message, not the endorsement of the government.  The government will not enforce Christian moral values under the criminal law.   It is up to Christians to persuade others of their wisdom and relevancy. 

That is as it should be.     

Yep. To use a current aphorism popularized by Andrew Breitbart, politics is downstream from culture. Gotta change hearts and minds first.

[TomSea]

This is huge. A major news story that's being buried in the US news

Posted on this forum in world news yesterday cerca 6:00 pm.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,317578.0.html

[TomSea]

It has been widely reported in the mainstream press in these parts.   It is the way of the world these days.   The state is secular, and the rights that the state guarantees are secular rights.   Including, it appears in Ireland, a woman's right to choose whether to bear a child. 

I disagree with @Suppressed 's suggestion that we prepare for a post-Christian America.   Christianity is alive and well, because its message is sound.  But Christians must rely on the strength of that message, not the endorsement of the government.  The government will not enforce Christian moral values under the criminal law.   It is up to Christians to persuade others of their wisdom and relevancy. 

That is as it should be.     

The government already enforces, if one wants to be argumentative, some Judeo-Christian values, such as "thou shalt not steal" and so on.

Another anti-Christian message... pretty pitiful... let's not forget the other thread, where Christianity was blamed for allegedly yelling out "baby killer" would make women feel guilty of abortion, then, it was pointed out the study is from the UK, we certainly saw a quick exit from that thread.

See this thread for how one railed against Christianity:

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,316837.0.html

[TomSea]

It should be left up to the States to reflect 'community values', if it be Kentucky, Kansas, Texas and so on.

Leave it to some, to use this as an axe to grind against Christianity.

Population of Ireland, 4.77 million, so about the same population size as South Carolina.

[TomSea]

Sure sounds like guilty consciences @Jazzhead @Suppressed

Just because you may be comfortable with black children being killed at a rate of five times the rate of white children, don't think the rest of us feel that way.

And this is what I think, Margaret Sanger, the white supremacist movement has for years, looked at abortion as a way to weed out weak peoples, that was also seen in Germany in the 1930s.

[Frank Cannon]

I think that US conservatives need to prepare for post-Christian America. Sticking our heads into the sand won't help.

Prepare? Look around. It's been here for years already.

[Smokin Joe]

It has been widely reported in the mainstream press in these parts.   It is the way of the world these days.   The state is secular, and the rights that the state guarantees are secular rights.   Including, it appears in Ireland, a woman's right to choose whether to bear a child. 

I disagree with @Suppressed 's suggestion that we prepare for a post-Christian America.   Christianity is alive and well, because its message is sound.  But Christians must rely on the strength of that message, not the endorsement of the government.  The government will not enforce Christian moral values under the criminal law.   It is up to Christians to persuade others of their wisdom and relevancy. 

That is as it should be.     

"Secular rights"?????


No such thing. There are only enactments, pronouncements and privileges granted by the State, it cannot make a "Right" any more than I can create a duck. What word salad popycock!

[TomSea]

Scapegoating religions, wow! Where have we seen that from? Just trash the beliefs of others, that's a very sincere debate I suppose, it seems like a lazy argument.

[Smokin Joe]

Scapegoating religions, wow! Where have we seen that from? Just trash the beliefs of others, that's a very sincere debate I suppose, it seems like a lazy argument.

When people allow themselves to be convinced that the baby growing in the womb is not "alive", but just a "lump of tissue", they can justify in their own minds murder most foul. Next will come the whole "quality of life" argument, which will be used to justify the slaughter of the aged, infirm, the halt and the lame, and history will repeat itself, what ever group is chosen next. 

[TomSea]

When people allow themselves to be convinced that the baby growing in the womb is not "alive", but just a "lump of tissue", they can justify in their own minds murder most foul. Next will come the whole "quality of life" argument, which will be used to justify the slaughter of the aged, infirm, the halt and the lame, and history will repeat itself, what ever group is chosen next. 

One wonders if these critics don't want Christians to feed the hungry as well? Maybe their living is wrong as well.  Maybe rescue missions to help out on skid row is a no-no in their eyes as well.

The other thread in this forum:
"Abortion tied to sharp decline in women's mental health"
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,316837.0.html

@Jazzhead

Really shows the same automatic defense, tear into Christianity, pretty shallow, though, the excuse doesn't really work as well in the secular society of the UK. Also, pretty shallow when one sees the soapbox is just the same old line, doesn't address one other issue except the same broken record defense.

It also reminds one of Christians, Armenians, Greeks and others, scapegoated by the Turks in the 1910s. Maybe these people are more content with black children basically, being killed in the wound at 5 times the rate of white children in the womb.    http://www.priestsforlife.org/africanamerican/about.htm

Oh, and that revered supreme court that ruled slavery is okay as well? Yes, that great moral authority that is often called on in the broken record defense as well, it may well be on the way to change as well.

These two should really be looked at, any pro-life thread, as demonstrated, becomes a right to attack Christianity, and the same ol' same ol' defense again and again and again and again, funding planned parenthood? Don't expect this to be address. Christianity belittled, expect that.

[TomSea]

I think that US conservatives need to prepare for post-Christian America. Sticking our heads into the sand won't help.

@Suppressed

Do you have big criticisms of Christians feeding the hungry too? Or do you think they should die as well.

No wonder, you belittle Trump, because he was elected and that isn't sticking one's head into the sand. We have seen you defend Biden. Well, change is on the way, maybe it's you all who are sticking your heads in the sand, defending vile things, not having more to defend your views on abortion but attacking Christianity as is @Jazzhead 's main defense as well on this topic. Note, he tore into Christianity in that other thread as listed while, because it was a thread basically about the UK, his defenses fell down like nothing.  In fact, despite the vitriol of anti-Christian talk which is all you two can do in discussing abortion, Oh, I forget, having sex is bonding, so eliminate the child, another gem, I've heard from you, big changes are on the horizon.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Europeans will abort, and otherwise limit by birth control, themselves out of existence. They will be replaced by foreigners, maybe in our lifetimes.

[Jazzhead]

. . . but attacking Christianity as is @Jazzhead 's main defense as well on this topic.

@TomSea , did you even read my post above?   The Christian message is sound as a pound.  But you've got to believe and propagate that message yourselves, not demand that the government endorse Christian values.  The government cannot and will not favor one religion over another.    The goverment's job is to stay as far away from religion as possible.   But I have always admired the values of Christians,  even as I defend the right of women to choose for themselves when to reproduce, free of government coercion.   

[Right_in_Virginia]

Christianity is alive and well, because its message is sound.  But Christians must rely on the strength of that message, not the endorsement of the government.  The government will not enforce Christian moral values under the criminal law.   It is up to Christians to persuade others of their wisdom and relevancy. 

That is as it should be.   

I agree Christians must rely on the strength of the message .... but only as a beginning @Jazzhead .  Christians should use the message as the opening to a conversation to understand why the abortion is being considered ---and then offer tangible, meaningful alternatives and solutions.  Adoption as an alternative, with financial support through the pregnancy is an option.  Education assistant for the woman who views a baby as an obstacle to a college education is another.  There would be others depending on the needs of the woman.

This approach would welcome new life into the world one at a time by helping each mother one at a time --- rather than hoping and waiting for a one-size-fits-all legislative or judicial decree.

Christians need more than words.  They need to pool their entrepreneurial spirit and resources; their time and their energy.

[TomSea]

After saying some of the nastiest things about Christians, then, the light bulb idea goes on! The best thing is for Christians is to persuade others....    You can't make this stuff up... it's hardly worth relating too and certainly, doesn't have anything to do with speaking about the abortion debate, it is an attack on how others believe.  It's a total copout to talking about the central issue.

 

http://www.lifenews.com/2015/02/23/7-shocking-quotes-from-planned-parenthood-founder-margaret-sanger/

Pro-choicers too, should be lumped in with all of the things, the pioneer of Planned Parenthood said, let alone, there really won't be much discussion on any defunding or other aspects of Planned Parenthood just the old broken record as to how the SCOTUS has spoken,  how bad Christians are and how these bad Christians need to persuade others.   

And I'd say it's shaming others too, in 2 years, they've never come up with a good argument, so to poke at others which is very much on record, seems to be the way. I don't care to be combative in this. Also, it seems little different to me, that say, in another situation, you had someone using racial epithets against someone, to now, come out and say, let's talk. They've never talked about the issues yet. 

To use extreme examples of pro-lifers, again, would pertain to other facets of life as well, making blanket statements about all of one ethnicity or something, because of the actions of a few.

[Jazzhead]

I agree Christians must rely on the strength of the message .... but only as a beginning @Jazzhead .  Christians should use the message as the opening to a conversation to understand why the abortion is being considered ---and then offer tangible, meaningful alternatives and solutions.  Adoption as an alternative, with financial support through the pregnancy is an option.  Education assistant for the woman who views a baby as an obstacle to a college education is another.  There would be others depending on the needs of the woman.

This approach would welcome new life into the world one at a time by helping each mother one at a time --- rather than hoping and waiting for a one-size-fits-all legislative or judicial decree.

Christians need more than words.  They need to pool their entrepreneurial spirit and resources; their time and their energy.

Agree 1000%, @Right_in_Virginia .  Terrific post.

[Jazzhead]

After saying some of the nastiest things about Christians, then, the light bulb idea goes on! The best thing is for Christians is to persuade others.... 

What "nasty things" have been said about Christians?   The issue where harsh words may have been spoken is political, not moral.   The moral fight to make sure every child is born and nutured is noble and ennobling to those who fight it.    Christian values are at the epicenter of that fight. 

The problem is so many conceived lives are unwanted.   Persuasion and, as RIV says, real support, are the means by which Christians will prevail, one life at a time.   Those liberals you are so fond of condemning aren't oblivious to the problem, either - their emphasis, though, tends to be on contraceptive planning.    Birth control prevents abortions.   Family planning prevents abortions. Support for adoption prevents abortions.  Support for abstinence until marriage prevents abortions.    Financial help to mothers abandoned by their partners prevents abortions. 

There are myriad ways to advance Christian values and improve prospects for children.   Where I stand apart from you, @TomSea,  is not with respect to any of that.   It is only with respect to the coercive hand of government.  A woman must have the liberty to choose her destiny.