BREAKING>>>Active Shooter At Santa Fe, Tx High School

[ABX]

Other students are saying the kid was bullied, even by coaches at the school.  Was mocked for 'smelling bad'.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/30827/watch-student-says-shooter-was-picked-coaches-wore-ryan-saavedra?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

And guess what they included in "violence"...

...ideation.


So if you thought you might want to kill someone, they counted it as a violent event.  Nearly half of the "violent events" came from "homicidal ideation reports".


Yes, there's probably some activation risk from some of these medications that make people able to function again...because "functioning" sometimes includes acting out violence.   But the immense good that they do for people far outweighs these events, just like with firearms.

Don't take it personally @Suppressed, but what these drugs are good for is shit.

I can go on and on with study after study to make my point, but we need ask only 1 question of these drugs.

Just 1 question.

What have any of these drugs ever cured?

Answer? Absolutely nothing.

Not a single cure from any of this crap.

And the word Ideation is a Construct/Justification/Cliff Notes Abstract from the quacks who push them at street/hospital/clinic level.

The person being conned into swallowing these chemicals is having an 'Ideation' only in the Mind/Billing Paperwork of the aforementioned Quack.

[Bigun]

Don't take it personally @Suppressed, but what these drugs are good for is shit.

I can go on and on with study after study to make my point, but we need ask only 1 question of these drugs.

Just 1 question.

What have any of these drugs ever cured?

Answer? Absolutely nothing.

Not a single cure from any of this crap.

And the word Ideation is an Construct/Justification/Cliff Notes Abstract from the quacks who push them at street/hospital/clinic level.

The person being conned into swallowing these chemicals is having an 'Ideation' only in the Mind/Billing Paperwork of the aforementioned Quack.

When I was a young person in school - not all that long ago in the grand scheme of things - no one had ever heard of any of those drugs and everyone got along just fine for the most part.  Don't recall ever hearing of a school shooting and every pickup in the parking lot had a rifle or shotgun in the gun rack.

[Suppressed]

I can go on and on with study after study to make my point, but we need ask only 1 question of these drugs.

Just 1 question.

What have any of these drugs ever cured?

Answer? Absolutely nothing.

And you shouldn't take it personally, @To-Whose-Benefit? , but by saying that's the question, you show how narrow and wrong your focus is.

TREATMENT is important, even if there's no cure.

Tell me, has a wheelchair ever made a patient with no legs regrow them?

Has a painkiller ever regenerated a limb that was blown off?

Has a hearing aid ever restored auditory capacity?




By your twisted logic, they're all worthless.

I say they aren't.

[edpc]

What have any of these drugs ever cured?

Answer? Absolutely nothing.

Not a single cure from any of this crap.

Sometimes, there's no 'cure' for a condition that's chronic, but certain medications can manage them.

[Bigun]

Sometimes, there's no 'cure' for a condition that's chronic, but certain medications can manage them.

That's very true but does it justify the wholesale use of them to manage behavioral problems instead of dealing with them the old fashioned way?

[Sanguine]

That's very true but does it justify the wholesale use of them to manage behavioral problems instead of dealing with them the old fashioned way?

Locking them in the attic?

[Bigun]

Locking them in the attic?

No!  Confronting the problem directly and dealing with it!

[Sanguine]

No!  Confronting the problem directly and dealing with it!

I agree with that, as far as it goes, but things like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are beyond behavioral modification.

[edpc]

That's very true but does it justify the wholesale use of them to manage behavioral problems instead of dealing with them the old fashioned way?

Of course not and these particular meds are probably prescribed too often, used as a crutch, and/or improperly taken by those that need them.  However, that doesn't mean they're without value as an aid.

[Axeslinger]

Locking them in the attic?

No, in mental institutions where they can be managed away from society, until they die...away from society.

[Suppressed]

No!  Confronting the problem directly and dealing with it!

And losing a huge portion of the population that is now productive because of the use of more modern techniques.  Ditch-diggers of the past holding professional positions today, resulting in far more economic output for themselves and the society -- not to mention their reduced internal torment. 

We can put some blinders on and pine for that past, but it's forgetting that those old techniques didn't really fix everyone.  We were just good at hiding the failures.  Remember that back then, there was a lot of room for male drifters and female housewives who didn't need to worry as much about controlling some conditions.

[Suppressed]

Of course not and these particular meds are probably prescribed too often, used as a crutch, and/or improperly taken by those that need them.  However, that doesn't mean they're without value as an aid.

 

[ABX]

Do we have any link or source yet to say if he was on something and what it was?

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

I agree with that, as far as it goes, but things like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are beyond behavioral modification.

Yes, they are.

Let's see the lab reports on people labeled schizophrenic or bipolar.

Let's have a look at those Brain Scans proving they're schizophrenic or bipolar.

http://psychrights.org/articles/GEJacksonMDBrainScanCuriousConsensus.pdf

Since Physical Brain Scans are worthless, upsetting the functioning of that brain with drugs should be classified as criminally irresponsible at best.

And Before the Mods jump in to uphold the prevailing, widely disseminated misconceptions about those 'disorders' to imply that I'm thread jacking, I'm gonna take a deep breath and go do something, anything, else, since I've already taken great pains under this heading Numerous times here, and every time the subject comes up certain members come back with their memories wiped clean to start from scratch all over again.

Apparently the idiocy of turning a Sociopath (Nikolaus Cruz) into a speed freak isn't something anyone wants to address. Doesn't fit real well with the stance that he needed "Professional Help".

[Sanguine]

Yes, they are.

Let's see the lab reports on people labeled schizophrenic or bipolar.

Let's have a look at those Brain Scans proving they're schizophrenic or bipolar.

http://psychrights.org/articles/GEJacksonMDBrainScanCuriousConsensus.pdf

Since Physical Brain Scans are worthless, upsetting the functioning of that brain with drugs should be classified as criminally irresponsible at best.

And Before the Mods jump in to uphold the prevailing, widely disseminated misconceptions about those 'disorders' to imply that I'm thread jacking, I'm gonna take a deep breath and go do something, anything, else, since I've already taken great pains under this heading Numerous times here, and every time the subject comes up certain members come back with their memories wiped clean to start from scratch all over again.

Apparently the idiocy of turning a Sociopath (Nikolaus Cruz) into a speed freak isn't something anyone wants to address. Doesn't fit real well with the stance that he needed "Professional Help".

Good grief.

[Gefn]

I agree with that, as far as it goes, but things like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are beyond behavioral modification.

@Sanguine, I love you dearly, but not all people with bipolar, schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder are beyond behavior modification.

I give you the late John Nash for example and I can give you more. I'd rather have one of these illnesses than a personality disorder

[Gefn]

I'm studying psych right now for school, but @Victoria33 knows more  than I do. I'm just gleaning from some textbooks here

[Sanguine]

@Sanguine, I love you dearly, but not all people with bipolar, schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder are beyond behavior modification.

I give you the late John Nash for example and I can give you more. I'd rather have one of these illnesses than a personality disorder

No, that's not what I meant.  I was reacting to the poster who claims that all psychotropic drugs are evil, and it's a plot by big pharma, and that's what is causing this plague of shooting.  I was only commenting that meds are appropriate and helpful - and sometimes necessary.

I love you too!

[Applewood]

Do we have any link or source yet to say if he was on something and what it was?

I don't think so.  As in most of these incidents, where we have little to no information particularly early on, an environment is created for rumor and speculation. 

[ABX]

No, that's not what I meant.  I was reacting to the poster who claims that all psychotropic drugs are evil, and it's a plot by big pharma, and that's what is causing this plague of shooting.  I was only commenting that meds are appropriate and helpful - and sometimes necessary.

I love you too!

Over 10% of the population is on some sort of psychotropic medication¹- usually antidepressants. If it really was a plot by big phrarma to cause shootings, we would be seeing a hell of a lot more of them. In reality, in spite of what it feels like watching the news, mass shootings like this are actually down ². We just have a 24/7 news cycle with access to the entire world's news at the speed of light- so something like this that, 20 years ago, may have gotten 10 minutes on the national news or an hour on a local station, is bombarding us.

If this were the case that these drugs are the primary cause, we would be seeing a marked increase in shootings correlating to an increase in the use of these drugs.

 ¹ https://psychcentral.com/news/2011/10/25/antidepressant-use-up-400-percent-in-us/30677.html

 ² https://theintercept.com/2018/03/01/school-shooting-statistics-parkland-florida/


Now don't get me wrong, I think these things are way over-prescribed and they do have awful side-effects, but as people want some sort of easy outside answer to blame it on, sadly, this is more an effect of the overall human and society condition than it is some artificial chemical factor (or blaming the gun like the left does).

One side blames the gun, the other side blames drugs or video games- the reality is this was a major human failure.

[Bigun]

Of course not and these particular meds are probably prescribed too often, used as a crutch, and/or improperly taken by those that need them.  However, that doesn't mean they're without value as an aid.

@edpc

I think we may be getting close to agreement here believe it or not. 

So what do we do to prevent drugging those who really don't need to be drugged and are simply because their parents, teachers, and medical professionals are toodamned lazy to do what reall needs to be done?

[edpc]

@edpc

I think we may be getting close to agreement here believe it or not. 

So what do we do to prevent drugging those who really don't need to be drugged and are simply because their parents, teachers, and medical professionals are toodamned lazy to do what reall needs to be done?

The actual answer to that is a bit out of my realm.  I think the first step has to be personal responsibility and ownership.  For instance, I have a chronic condition called ankylosing spondylitis.  If I just lived on handfuls of Celebrex, Vicodin, and Flexiril, I would get by, but not have much of a life.  So, I have to stay active, watch what I eat, and do my therapeutic exercises.

I'm not trying to compare a sore back to mental illness, but those who have these conditions are going to have to want it, to manage it.  Some of it is cultural.  Everyone isn't a winner every day, not everyone is going to love or respect you, and nobody owes you anything.  Shaking these false notions that have been incrementally foisted on us would be a good start.

[Sanguine]

Over 10% of the population is on some sort of psychotropic medication¹- usually antidepressants. If it really was a plot by big phrarma to cause shootings, we would be seeing a hell of a lot more of them. In reality, in spite of what it feels like watching the news, mass shootings like this are actually down ². We just have a 24/7 news cycle with access to the entire world's news at the speed of light- so something like this that, 20 years ago, may have gotten 10 minutes on the national news or an hour on a local station, is bombarding us.

If this were the case that these drugs are the primary cause, we would be seeing a marked increase in shootings correlating to an increase in the use of these drugs.

 ¹ https://psychcentral.com/news/2011/10/25/antidepressant-use-up-400-percent-in-us/30677.html

 ² https://theintercept.com/2018/03/01/school-shooting-statistics-parkland-florida/


Now don't get me wrong, I think these things are way over-prescribed and they do have awful side-effects, but as people want some sort of easy outside answer to blame it on, sadly, this is more an effect of the overall human and society condition than it is some artificial chemical factor (or blaming the gun like the left does).

One side blames the gun, the other side blames drugs or video games- the reality is this was a major human failure.

I completely agree.

[NavyCanDo]

Over 10% of the population is on some sort of psychotropic medication¹- usually antidepressants. If it really was a plot by big phrarma to cause shootings, we would be seeing a hell of a lot more of them. In reality, in spite of what it feels like watching the news, mass shootings like this are actually down ². We just have a 24/7 news cycle with access to the entire world's news at the speed of light- so something like this that, 20 years ago, may have gotten 10 minutes on the national news or an hour on a local station, is bombarding us.

If this were the case that these drugs are the primary cause, we would be seeing a marked increase in shootings correlating to an increase in the use of these drugs.

 ¹ https://psychcentral.com/news/2011/10/25/antidepressant-use-up-400-percent-in-us/30677.html

 ² https://theintercept.com/2018/03/01/school-shooting-statistics-parkland-florida/


Now don't get me wrong, I think these things are way over-prescribed and they do have awful side-effects, but as people want some sort of easy outside answer to blame it on, sadly, this is more an effect of the overall human and society condition than it is some artificial chemical factor (or blaming the gun like the left does).

One side blames the gun, the other side blames drugs or video games- the reality is this was a major human failure.

 

The vast majority of those being prescribed some sort of psychotropic medication from a professional will live their whole lives without harming anyone. Including my own son who is  on the autism spectrun. We defend gun owners by saying the same thing.  The true culprit is no moral compass and no fear of being put in front of the Ultimate Judge. Then you have wanting fame at any cost, which these unpopular loaners are suscetable too.