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Offline Suppressed

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Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« on: May 11, 2018, 02:17:28 pm »
Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
May 11, 2018. NY Times
https://www.wraltechwire.com/2018/05/11/beware-the-smart-device-alexa-and-siri-can-hear-this-hidden-command-you-cant/

BERKELEY, Calif. — Many people have grown accustomed to talking to their smart devices, asking them to read a text, play a song or set an alarm. But someone else might be secretly talking to them, too.

Over the past two years, researchers in China and the United States have begun demonstrating that they can send hidden commands that are undetectable to the human ear to Apple’s Siri, Amazon’s Alexa and Google’s Assistant. Inside university labs, the researchers have been able to secretly activate the artificial intelligence systems on smartphones and smart speakers, making them dial phone numbers or open websites. In the wrong hands, the technology could be used to unlock doors, wire money or buy stuff online — simply with music playing over the radio.

A group of students from University of California, Berkeley, and Georgetown University showed in 2016 that they could hide commands in white noise played over loudspeakers and through YouTube videos to get smart devices to turn on airplane mode or open a website.

This month, some of those Berkeley researchers published a research paper that went further, saying they could embed commands directly into recordings of music or spoken text. So while a human listener hears someone talking or an orchestra playing, Amazon’s Echo speaker might hear an instruction to add something to your shopping list.

[...]
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Offline Suppressed

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2018, 02:17:47 pm »
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“In the outside world, I'm a simple geologist. But in here .... I am Falcor, Defender of the Alliance” --Randy Marsh

“The most effectual means of being secure against pain is to retire within ourselves, and to suffice for our own happiness.” -- Thomas Jefferson

“He's so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent.” --Foghorn Leghorn

Offline Gefn

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2018, 06:13:01 pm »
Thanks @Suppressed

I'll watch out for Siri and Alexa


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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2018, 06:43:36 pm »
Thanks @Freya

Not liking this.
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Offline DB

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2018, 06:53:58 pm »
Alexa and the like are simply a microphone in your house connected to the Internet...

The voice processing isn't done in the device in your home...
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2018, 07:01:22 pm »
Quote from: DB on May 11, 2018, 06:53:58 pm
Alexa and the like are simply a microphone in your house connected to the Internet...

The voice processing isn't done in the device in your home...

That is correct, but you can train it so it can only respond to your voice template (Plus  family members).
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BassWrangler

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2018, 08:42:54 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on May 11, 2018, 06:43:36 pm
Thanks @Freya

Not liking this.

You're about as likely to be a victim of this as to be kidnapped by Somali pirates and struck by lightening on the same day.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2018, 09:02:10 pm »
Quote from: BassWrangler on May 11, 2018, 08:42:54 pm
You're about as likely to be a victim of this as to be kidnapped by Somali pirates and struck by lightening on the same day.

They used to say that about ID theft.  I have several of these contraptions in my hose, so I watch stories like this carefully.  The thing wakes up when it hears anything that sounds like "Alexa" on TV.  I have the choice of four "wake words," and "Alexa" seems the most unique in the language.

I'll have to look up what the possible wake words are....
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2018, 09:34:12 pm »
My computer has no microphone and no camera. It can't be hacked if it doesn't exist.
I would never have an Alexa or Siri or any talking TV or anything like that. Too many stories. Those things are always active.

I don't want Alexa calling the Cops on me because of some misunderstanding.

The only vulnerability that I have is my cell phone. I have the camera covered until I want to use it. There is no way around the phone mic recording me. At least not that I can think of. Keep my phone in my pocket most of the time.

If I am going somewhere private to do something I don't want anyone to know about, I get a burner phone and leave my phone at home or in the office. This is equivalent to going into stealth mode. Without your phone and using only cash, Google cannot track you. *Poof* you simply disappear off the grid. At that point I am a ghost to the Google eyeballs.

Two women were in a coffee shop discussing sweaters. They love sweaters and had found a wonder boutique etc...yada,yada,yada

One of women said the next time she went on the internet, all the ads that came up were about sweaters. Even though she had never searched for sweaters before. Now that is spooky. I don't need some AI listening to everything I say and do. Some people like it, but it is not for me.
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2018, 09:39:41 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on May 11, 2018, 09:02:10 pm
They used to say that about ID theft.  I have several of these contraptions in my hose, so I watch stories like this carefully.  The thing wakes up when it hears anything that sounds like "Alexa" on TV.  I have the choice of four "wake words," and "Alexa" seems the most unique in the language.

I'll have to look up what the possible wake words are....


Doesn't it have to be 'awake' already? To be able to hear the 'wake word'?
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2018, 09:44:43 pm »
Quote from: 240B on May 11, 2018, 09:39:41 pm

Doesn't it have to be 'awake' already? To be able to hear the 'wake word'?

Good point.  There is an "off" button so it doesn't do anything.  "Wake word" is probably not the best word for it, more accurate would be "Get ready to do something word."
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2018, 09:48:29 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on May 11, 2018, 09:44:43 pm
Good point.  There is an "off" button so it doesn't do anything.  "Wake word" is probably not the best word for it, more accurate would be "Get ready to do something word."

I would recommend turning it off if you are discussing something significant that you would not want to be made public. Or even something like a big stock trade or investment or anything private. That thing is listening to everything you say. And God only knows who is on the other end.
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You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists

Oceander

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2018, 09:48:39 pm »
Quote from: 240B on May 11, 2018, 09:39:41 pm

Doesn't it have to be 'awake' already? To be able to hear the 'wake word'?

Not really.  It just has to be in some power state that is higher than fully unpowered.  The reason it uses a limited number of “wake” words is that those can most likely be processed onboard, without having to go to the AI assist online.  It’s a little bit like a computer that’s in “sleep” mode but which will “wake” when the mouse is moved. 
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2018, 09:53:26 pm »
Quote from: 240B on May 11, 2018, 09:48:29 pm
I would recommend turning it off if you are discussing something significant that you would not want to be made public. Or even something like a big stock trade or investment or anything private. That thing is listening to everything you say. And God only knows who is on the other end.

Fortunately I just jibber-jabber nonsense all day.  Just ask Mrs. Liberty.  Sort of like the way I do here....
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2018, 10:08:50 pm »
Quote from: Oceander on May 11, 2018, 09:48:39 pm
Not really.  It just has to be in some power state that is higher than fully unpowered.  The reason it uses a limited number of “wake” words is that those can most likely be processed onboard, without having to go to the AI assist online.  It’s a little bit like a computer that’s in “sleep” mode but which will “wake” when the mouse is moved.

I understand. But given the FBI - Apple encryption issue, it would be reasonable to assume that government agencies have put some kind of back-door in the thing that allows them to listen without you knowing. Not that they would. I don't want to seem crazy here, but no doubt a capability exists to listen while in sleep mode. No doubt Amazon/Apple/Google could do it if they wanted to. And if it exists, it is only a matter of time until it is hacked.
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You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists

BassWrangler

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2018, 10:10:51 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on May 11, 2018, 09:02:10 pm
They used to say that about ID theft.  I have several of these contraptions in my hose, so I watch stories like this carefully.  The thing wakes up when it hears anything that sounds like "Alexa" on TV.  I have the choice of four "wake words," and "Alexa" seems the most unique in the language.

I'll have to look up what the possible wake words are....

I have no idea who "they" is, but they sound like idiots.
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2018, 10:13:56 pm »
Quote from: 240B on May 11, 2018, 10:08:50 pm
I understand. But given the FBI - Apple encryption issue, it would be reasonable to assume that government agencies have put some kind of back-door in the thing that allows them to listen without you knowing. Not that they would. I don't want to seem crazy here, but no doubt a capability exists to listen while in sleep mode. No doubt Amazon/Apple/Google could do it if they wanted to. And if it exists, it is only a matter of time until it is hacked.

Do you own a TV? Does your TV have WiFi or wired internet? Does it  have a microphone in it? Do you know for sure it doesn't? Could the government have a back door in that?

Do you own a cellphone? Does it have a microphone (yes)? Does it have network connectivity (yes)? Could the government have a back door in that?

It just amazes me the idiotic paranoia about these home assistant devices.

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2018, 10:22:44 pm »
I don't want no "smart house".
I want it dumb -- like me!

Things just go better that way.
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2018, 10:22:54 pm »
I personally don't have or want one of these devices.

But I have a friend that has an alexa. One day, not activated, it asked if it could get to know her better...tell me about yourself...

Myself, I would have thrown the Talking Tina in the backyard after that.
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2018, 10:22:59 pm »
Quote from: BassWrangler on May 11, 2018, 10:13:56 pm
Do you own a TV? Does your TV have WiFi or wired internet? Does it  have a microphone in it? Do you know for sure it doesn't? Could the government have a back door in that?

Do you own a cellphone? Does it have a microphone (yes)? Does it have network connectivity (yes)? Could the government have a back door in that?

It just amazes me the idiotic paranoia about these home assistant devices.
@BassWrangler

I take it that you have just called me an idiot and maybe fool. I have an idea. How about you live your life anyway you want to, and leave me the hell alone. I don't care what you do. I don't know why you would care about what I do and think.

As for the issues you listed, I have already discussed them. Did you even read and comprehend what I wrote? Have another beer and chill out. It is going to be a beautiful weekend.
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You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists

BassWrangler

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2018, 10:30:57 pm »
Quote from: 240B on May 11, 2018, 10:22:59 pm
@BassWrangler

I take it that you have just called me an idiot and maybe fool. I have an idea. How about you live your life anyway you want to, and leave me the hell alone. I don't care what you do. I don't know why you would care about what I do and think.

As for the issues you listed, I have already discussed them. Did you even read and comprehend what I wrote? Have another beer and chill out. It is going to be a beautiful weekend.

Not calling you an idiot. Haven't had any beers. [nope]
« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 08:49:02 am by Mod1 »
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2018, 10:38:28 pm »
Quote from: BassWrangler on May 11, 2018, 10:30:57 pm
Not calling you an idiot. Haven't had any beers. .

LOL! Classy. And so witty. Well, given our conversation I am forced to bow to the superior intelligence. LOL you made my weekend. Unless I get FU a week, I just don't feel right. Carry on brother. Fight the good fight.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 08:49:20 am by Mod1 »
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You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists

Online roamer_1

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2018, 01:54:31 am »
Quote from: BassWrangler on May 11, 2018, 08:42:54 pm
You're about as likely to be a victim of this as to be kidnapped by Somali pirates and struck by lightening on the same day.

Oh just wait... this will be the new adware.
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Offline Gefn

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2018, 02:42:47 am »
Quote from: berdie on May 11, 2018, 10:22:54 pm
I personally don't have or want one of these devices.

But I have a friend that has an alexa. One day, not activated, it asked if it could get to know her better...tell me about yourself...

Myself, I would have thrown the Talking Tina in the backyard after that.

Great episode of the Twilight Zone, @berdie . The late June Foray was Tina.
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2018, 02:47:07 am »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on May 11, 2018, 09:02:10 pm
They used to say that about ID theft.  I have several of these contraptions in my hose, so I watch stories like this carefully.  The thing wakes up when it hears anything that sounds like "Alexa" on TV.  I have the choice of four "wake words," and "Alexa" seems the most unique in the language.

I'll have to look up what the possible wake words are....

@Cyber Liberty the wake word is "meow" . Why do you think all the catnip mice have been coming in prime boxes?
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2018, 03:27:07 am »
If you REALlY want to be freaked out, check out "Amazon Key"

No way. Do I want delivery to my car!! Unless it's a carhop
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2018, 03:36:06 am »
Quote from: Freya on May 12, 2018, 02:42:47 am
Great episode of the Twilight Zone, @berdie . The late June Foray was Tina.

I wondered how many people would get that reference. LOL
Wasn't around when the show aired but have seen all the reruns on SyFy. Every New Year they run a marathon. So, I've watched them a few times while nursing a hangover. I think I know almost all of them by now.
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You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists

Offline Gefn

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2018, 03:39:26 am »
Quote from: 240B on May 12, 2018, 03:36:06 am
I wondered how many people would get that reference. LOL
Wasn't around when the show aired but have seen all the reruns on SyFy. Every New Year they run a marathon. So, I've watched them a few times while nursing a hangover. I think I know almost all of them by now.

I've seen them on Netflix. Great show. Nice to see actors before they were famous like Burt Reynolds, William Shatner, Peter Falk, Jack Klugman, etc. @240B
« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 03:40:53 am by Freya »
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2018, 03:57:04 am »
Quote from: Freya on May 12, 2018, 03:39:26 am
I've seen them on Netflix. Great show. Nice to see actors before they were famous like Burt Reynolds, William Shatner, Peter Falk, Jack Klugman, etc. @240B

Absolutely. This is Telly Salvalas.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSy8Ko1vSKQ
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You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists

Offline Gefn

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2018, 05:52:42 am »
Kojack! Now I know why he always had a lollipop in his mouth. He was quitting smoking!
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2018, 11:43:28 am »
Quote from: Freya on May 12, 2018, 03:27:07 am
If you REALlY want to be freaked out, check out "Amazon Key"

No way. Do I want delivery to my car!! Unless it's a carhop

That is shot full of "Nope."  My SimpliSafe would not like it....
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2018, 12:42:25 pm »
Quote from: Fishrrman on May 11, 2018, 10:22:44 pm
I don't want no "smart house".
I want it dumb -- like me!

Things just go better that way.
:amen: :beer:
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2018, 10:49:14 pm »
Quote from: Freya on May 12, 2018, 02:42:47 am
Great episode of the Twilight Zone, @berdie . The late June Foray was Tina.

yeah, @Freya when I learned that the Talking Tina was also Rocky the Squirrel it took a lot of the spooky out of that episode. LOL
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2018, 10:55:26 pm »
Quote from: berdie on May 12, 2018, 10:49:14 pm
yeah, @Freya when I learned that the Talking Tina was also Rocky the Squirrel it took a lot of the spooky out of that episode. LOL

She was also a one armed bandit in Vegas. The old man jumped out the window.....
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2018, 11:45:01 pm »
@Freya

My fancy HP laptop computer wants me to turn on a gizmo on computer that can identify my voice, then answer questions I asked it or find something on my computer if I tell it to.  I will not turn on the gizmo so it can identify my voice. I want my computer to stay dumb.
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2018, 12:44:05 am »
Quote from: Victoria33 on May 12, 2018, 11:45:01 pm
@Freya

My fancy HP laptop computer wants me to turn on a gizmo on computer that can identify my voice, then answer questions I asked it or find something on my computer if I tell it to.  I will not turn on the gizmo so it can identify my voice. I want my computer to stay dumb.

@Victoria33
Yep. That's Cortana. Poor Cortana can't get a break around here... None of my machines have an active mike or cam - most of my machines don't have the ability unless I literally plug in the mike and cam... On my laptops the mike and cam are deliberately disabled programmatically... My TVs have no mike or cam, and if they did, they would be permanently disabled. ... Only my tablet (which is off most of the time) and my phone have the capability... and that only because I don't know how to block it yet.

The phone is a tricky business though. It really isn't useful without the ability to speak to it. I can't run that itty bitty keyboard without my glasses on, and even at that, it is a bother.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 12:45:31 am by roamer_1 »
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2018, 01:09:22 am »
The interesting (scary) thing about Cortana is that is cannot be disabled or uninstalled even on the admin root level. Microsoft has built up walls around it (and Bing) so that it is impossible to get rid of them no matter what. There used to be a hack where Cortana could be disabled at the root level. But MS has now blocked the hack. So now, there is absolutely no way to do away with it. So that begs the question, Why? Why is MS so adamant that all of its users use Cortana and Bing? What do they want? What are they getting out of it?

And I agree. I wouldn't want my voiceprint on file with Microsoft just out of general principle. Which is what happens if you use the Cortana voice services.

Also I have no camera and no microphone, unless I physically plug them in whenever I need to use it.
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2018, 02:54:00 am »
@Victoria33
@roamer_1
@240B

I've blocked the camera on my MacBook, iPad, and iPhone by placing a band aid over them. I've turned off Face Time, if I need a camera, I just remove it.

Now I know, when I plug my phone into my car, I can use Siri to do things like change radio stations, make calls, tell me the weather and use the gps. Weird! it's over Bluetooth. She'll even read any texts I may get while I'm driving but that I don't do.
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2018, 03:28:21 am »
Quote from: Freya on May 12, 2018, 03:27:07 am
If you REALlY want to be freaked out, check out "Amazon Key"

No way. Do I want delivery to my car!! Unless it's a carhop

Is that the one where you give them a key to your home? No thanks. The FedEx and UPS guys always seem like normal I folks, but some of the Amazon delivery people I've seen here are a bit sketchy looking.
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2018, 03:29:31 am »
Quote from: Freya on May 13, 2018, 02:54:00 am

I've blocked the camera on my MacBook, iPad, and iPhone by placing a band aid over them. I've turned off Face Time, if I need a camera, I just remove it.

@Freya
Yes, I did that too, for years... and still can... but it does not address the mic, which is, I believe, more of a threat to privacy than anything. I am not conversant w/ Mac, but both Win and Droid are natively designed to listen anymore, and the software that governs that is a monkey-knot...

So I just wrote a little gizmo to shut the mic off at the driver level (disables the driver), and in normal operation, if I do turn it on through the app, will automatically shut it back off after a length of time - I have that set to 5 minutes). I can turn it on indefinitely,, which I do for Skyping, as an instance, but in that case, the app is visible and always on top in the corner of the monitor... Until I manually disengage the drivers again.

This worked so well that I included shutting the cam off too, under the same method. so now, cam and mic come on at the same time, and shut off the very same way.

I dunno yet, but I will probably be releasing it as beta later this summer... Right now it is a hack... I need to make it universal for joe-six-pack to use.

Quote
Now I know, when I plug my phone into my car, I can use Siri to do things like change radio stations, make calls, tell me the weather and use the gps. Weird! it's over Bluetooth. She'll even read any texts I may get while I'm driving but that I don't do.

Yeah... the phone is the tough one. I am really new to owning a smart phone. And I do not like that it listens. Right now I do not have the 'assistant' going, so I think I still have to push on the little mic icon for it to be listening, but that is nowhere near good enough.
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #40 on: May 13, 2018, 03:31:05 am »
Quote from: 240B on May 13, 2018, 01:09:22 am
The interesting (scary) thing about Cortana is that is cannot be disabled or uninstalled even on the admin root level. Microsoft has built up walls around it (and Bing) so that it is impossible to get rid of them no matter what. There used to be a hack where Cortana could be disabled at the root level. But MS has now blocked the hack. So now, there is absolutely no way to do away with it. So that begs the question, Why? Why is MS so adamant that all of its users use Cortana and Bing? What do they want? What are they getting out of it?

And I agree. I wouldn't want my voiceprint on file with Microsoft just out of general principle. Which is what happens if you use the Cortana voice services.

Also I have no camera and no microphone, unless I physically plug them in whenever I need to use it.

@240B

Did you try the instructions here?

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/how-to-disable-cortana/

Looks so simple even a child could do it.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 03:31:54 am by BassWrangler »
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2018, 05:08:32 am »
Quote from: BassWrangler on May 13, 2018, 03:31:05 am
@240B

Did you try the instructions here?

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/how-to-disable-cortana/

Looks so simple even a child could do it.
@BassWrangle

Those instructions are out of date. That was how it first came out. You could turn it on and off at will. They got rid of that switch and it was always on. So some windows experts came up with a way to disable it at the root level, by disallowing it to startup. Microsoft then, in their lastest update disabled the ability to disable it. So now, there is nothing a user can do, that we know of, to turn it off. Microsoft are being real a-holes about keeping Cortana enabled regardless of what the user wants. I just want to know why? Why is MS so hot and bothered about Cortana? Nobody knows.
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2018, 05:10:35 am »
Quote from: BassWrangler on May 13, 2018, 03:28:21 am
Is that the one where you give them a key to your home? No thanks. The FedEx and UPS guys always seem like normal I folks, but some of the Amazon delivery people I've seen here are a bit sketchy looking.

Amazon delivery people do not work for Amazon. Many of them are temp contractors and even Amazon does not know who they are. Giving them a key to anything would be very unwise.
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2018, 10:07:12 pm »
Quote from: 240B on May 13, 2018, 05:08:32 am
@BassWrangle

Those instructions are out of date. That was how it first came out. You could turn it on and off at will. They got rid of that switch and it was always on. So some windows experts came up with a way to disable it at the root level, by disallowing it to startup. Microsoft then, in their lastest update disabled the ability to disable it. So now, there is nothing a user can do, that we know of, to turn it off. Microsoft are being real a-holes about keeping Cortana enabled regardless of what the user wants. I just want to know why? Why is MS so hot and bothered about Cortana? Nobody knows.

@240B

The article is less than a month old and mentions the recent April Windows 10 update. Are you sure they are out of date? No disrespect intended, but I think your info may be out of date. Privacy was one of the big themes of the recent Windows 10 update. I admit I didn't have a chance to try it yet.

You may not know that I work for Microsoft. Every fiscal year all employees have to take some training. This year it was about privacy, and there are lots of rules and procedures in place regarding collecting data and handling it in such a way that customers privacy is protected. if it's not anonymous the customer has to consent the collection and have a clear way to opt out initially or later. We hired whole legions of privacy experts to police this stuff and give engineers the knowledge and tools to do it right.

Regarding Microsoft's reasons for sticking to Cortana, I wish I could say more, but suffice it to say we probably would agree on more than not.
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2018, 10:22:12 pm »
@BassWrangler

The linked article says the first item when you click "setup" is a switch to enable or disable Cortana.  It's not there on my machine, although "Hey Cortana" is.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 10:22:50 pm by Cyber Liberty »
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2018, 12:15:04 am »
Quote from: BassWrangler on May 13, 2018, 10:07:12 pm
@240B

The article is less than a month old and mentions the recent April Windows 10 update. Are you sure they are out of date? No disrespect intended, but I think your info may be out of date. Privacy was one of the big themes of the recent Windows 10 update. I admit I didn't have a chance to try it yet.

You may not know that I work for Microsoft. Every fiscal year all employees have to take some training. This year it was about privacy, and there are lots of rules and procedures in place regarding collecting data and handling it in such a way that customers privacy is protected. if it's not anonymous the customer has to consent the collection and have a clear way to opt out initially or later. We hired whole legions of privacy experts to police this stuff and give engineers the knowledge and tools to do it right.

Regarding Microsoft's reasons for sticking to Cortana, I wish I could say more, but suffice it to say we probably would agree on more than not.
@BassWrangler

Does not work on my computer, Windows 10. On mine, it cannot be disabled. You can disable functions on it like to keep it from using voice, but there is no way to disable it. Even if you go to Task Manager and disable the process Cortana, it starts itself right back up automatically. It is a Frankenstein App, you cannot kill it. (on my computer)
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2018, 03:31:37 am »
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2018, 03:56:32 am »
@Suppressed

My car has a gps gadget that will tell my smart phone where it is - say at a mall, or anywhere.

I'll tell you about it later I'm going to sleep 😴
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 03:58:06 am by Freya »
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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2018, 09:19:26 am »
Quote from: Suppressed on May 14, 2018, 03:31:37 am
Law Enforcement Has Been Using OnStar, SiriusXM, To Eavesdrop, Track Car Locations For More Than 15 Years
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20170116/09333936490/law-enforcement-has-been-using-onstar-siriusxm-to-eavesdrop-track-car-locations-more-than-15-years.shtml
Back about the time Judas Priest was on trial because someone heard "Do it" playing their album backwards, there was a case in Nevada where the Feds were being sued by (I think, Onstar) over using the then fledgling technology to tap conversations held in a vehicle by a couple of suspects. The crux of the case was that the service provider could not provide the contracted for service while the Feds were overriding the software to use the hardware to listen in. (early 1990s).
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Re: Beware the smart device: Alexa and Siri can hear this hidden command – You can’t
« Reply #49 on: May 14, 2018, 10:48:16 am »
Quote from: 240B on May 14, 2018, 12:15:04 am
@BassWrangler

Does not work on my computer, Windows 10. On mine, it cannot be disabled. You can disable functions on it like to keep it from using voice, but there is no way to disable it. Even if you go to Task Manager and disable the process Cortana, it starts itself right back up automatically. It is a Frankenstein App, you cannot kill it. (on my computer)

@240B
Ok, are you running the latest Windows 10 update? If not, here's how to get it :

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2018/04/30/how-to-get-the-windows-10-april-2018-update/

I'll take a look at it when I get home from work this evening, and let you know what I find.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 10:49:19 am by BassWrangler »
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