Author Topic: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’  (Read 58446 times)

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Online mystery-ak

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #825 on: April 08, 2018, 10:00:02 pm »
Myst's PM came through.  I have no idea what the problem is.

You had your settings on receiving pm's from Admin only...changed it to *all members* now so you can all pm Jazz..lol
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #826 on: April 08, 2018, 10:18:03 pm »
Have you contributed in any substantive way to this discussion?
No less than anyone else on this snoozefest.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #827 on: April 08, 2018, 10:41:18 pm »
No less than anyone else on this snoozefest.

Quite honestly your meme was the most exciting thing to happen to this thread in 28 pages.

Offline LauraTXNM

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #828 on: April 08, 2018, 10:41:51 pm »
Many responses on Canadian, Israeli, and Swiss gun ownership, so I'll answer them here.

Canada: From 1995 to 2012, provinces had registries of "non-restricted" guns.   All have ended the registries but Quebec, which is continuing to strengthen its system.  THERE WERE AND HAVE BEEN NO CONFISCATIONS.

Switzerland: For purchase from a shop or private party transfer or transaction, information is kept by the canton bureau. 

Israel: Harder to get a license, yes.  But handguns are registered. 

Czech Republic: An interesting case, because they are very pro-ownership after the Nazi/USSR gun prohibitions and would never come close to confiscation.  Self-defense is a principle, permits are shall-issue, etc., etc.  But they still have registration of handguns, etc.

We could go on.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #829 on: April 08, 2018, 10:49:27 pm »
Quite honestly your meme was the most exciting thing to happen to this thread in 28 pages.

 :thumbsup:
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I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #830 on: April 08, 2018, 10:54:51 pm »
Many responses on Canadian, Israeli, and Swiss gun ownership, so I'll answer them here.

Canada: From 1995 to 2012, provinces had registries of "non-restricted" guns.   All have ended the registries but Quebec, which is continuing to strengthen its system.  THERE WERE AND HAVE BEEN NO CONFISCATIONS.

Switzerland: For purchase from a shop or private party transfer or transaction, information is kept by the canton bureau. 

Israel: Harder to get a license, yes.  But handguns are registered. 

Czech Republic: An interesting case, because they are very pro-ownership after the Nazi/USSR gun prohibitions and would never come close to confiscation.  Self-defense is a principle, permits are shall-issue, etc., etc.  But they still have registration of handguns, etc.

We could go on.

The citizens of the countries you list are, with the exception of Canada (who, notably, refused to comply with registration of their long guns), are in Europe with a tradition of being "subjects."  The US has a grand tradition of not trusting the government, and no level of cajoling and shaming is going to change that.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 11:09:20 pm by Cyber Liberty »
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #831 on: April 08, 2018, 11:03:49 pm »
The citizens of the countries you list are, with the exception of Canada (who, notably, refused to comply with registration of their long guns), are in Europe with a tradition of being "subjects."  The US has a grand tradition of not trusting the government, and no level of cajoling and shaming is not going to change that.

The United States is the only nation in the annals of mankind to be established on the basis of a political and social philosophy centered on natural, or God-given, rights.  Among these are self-preservation and property.  Property rights are the bedrock of the American political system; without that foundation, there is no freedom.  The Founders held that property rights encompass not just physical property, but also one's life, labor, speech, and livelihood, as individuals own their own lives; therefore, they must own the products of those lives, which can be traded in free exchange with others.  Further, as there is a natural right of self-preservation, man has the right and duty to defend himself against transgressors, including the state, who would deny, abrogate, or unlawfully seize his property.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #832 on: April 08, 2018, 11:10:15 pm »
Ooops!  I gacked my grammar, and didn't see it until @Elderberry quoted it....
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #833 on: April 08, 2018, 11:10:47 pm »
Quite honestly your meme was the most exciting thing to happen to this thread in 28 pages.
***blushing***

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #834 on: April 08, 2018, 11:12:26 pm »
The United States is the only nation in the annals of mankind to be established on the basis of a political and social philosophy centered on natural, or God-given, rights.  Among these are self-preservation and property.  Property rights are the bedrock of the American political system; without that foundation, there is no freedom.  The Founders held that property rights encompass not just physical property, but also one's life, labor, speech, and livelihood, as individuals own their own lives; therefore, they must own the products of those lives, which can be traded in free exchange with others.  Further, as there is a natural right of self-preservation, man has the right and duty to defend himself against transgressors, including the state, who would deny, abrogate, or unlawfully seize his property.

Shut up and register your guns like the nice Europeans.  And get on this cattle car over here.....
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Online Elderberry

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #835 on: April 08, 2018, 11:20:00 pm »
Shut up and register your guns like the nice Europeans.  And get on this cattle car over here.....


Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #836 on: April 08, 2018, 11:42:07 pm »
The citizens of the countries you list are, with the exception of Canada (who, notably, refused to comply with registration of their long guns), are in Europe with a tradition of being "subjects."  The US has a grand tradition of not trusting the government, and no level of cajoling and shaming is going to change that.

The point is my statement has been confirmed - there are many examples of gun registration regimes that have not led to confiscation. 

 
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #837 on: April 08, 2018, 11:50:45 pm »
The point is my statement has been confirmed - there are many examples of gun registration regimes that have not led to confiscation.

If you say so.  I'm not impressed with that SHORT list, so I still won't comply.

We're not dum dums.  Obviously somebody could come up with a few examples.  I find it hysterical it wasn't you to do it.  Maybe somebody tried to send it to you in a PM?
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #838 on: April 08, 2018, 11:51:02 pm »
The point is my statement has been confirmed - there are many examples of gun registration regimes that have not led to confiscation.

I don't know if a couple or even a few is Many.

Israel proves the NRA's arguments

In reality, Israel's gun policy is living proof of the arguments the American gun lobby has been making for years.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/21714

"In Israel, gun ownership is a privilege rather than a right," wrote Public Radio International in November. "There is no such thing as a right to bear arms in Israel," the Huffington Post preached after the 2016 shooting in an Orlando nightclub that left 50 dead.

Newsweek praised Israel for obligating its citizens to "show genuine cause to carry a firearm, such as self-defense or hunting". The message is clear: Israel has the right approach in curtailing access to firearms, and the United States would be well advised to tread the same path.

In reality, Israel's gun policy is living proof of the arguments the American gun lobby has been making for years.

Gun rights advocates contend that the way to stop mass shootings is by ensuring that there are always well-armed citizens present who can neutralize the shooter. As NRA chairman Wayne Lapierre always says, "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". A bedrock of the NRA's philosophy is that criminals will always acquire guns illegally, and draconian gun laws only render law-abiding citizens defenseless.

Enter Israel: When the knife intifada erupted in September 2015, the Israeli government's response was to ease the process for the civilian populace to obtain weapons. After a particularly bloody Jerusalem shooting attack that killed four, then-Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan drastically changed the gun laws in order to significantly raise the number of armed civilians on the streets. Instantly, graduates of Special Forces units and IDF officers with the rank of Lieutenant and above were permitted to purchase guns at their will, security guards were allowed to bring their guns home after work, and the minimum age for a license was reduced from 21 to 18.

Erdan explained that "civilians well trained in the use of weapons provide reinforcement in the struggle against terrorism", while Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat called for every resident to carry a gun, and was even photographed traveling the city carrying a Glock 23.

In addition, the overwhelming majority of terror attacks in Israel are stopped by armed civilians, not law enforcement. For example, the terrorists in the 2016 Sarona market attack were stopped by armed passersby. A pistol-carrying tour guide put an end to the 2017 ramming attack in Arnona that left four soldiers dead.

In Israeli eyes, guns are a valuable deterrent against terrorism. In fact, terrorists have told the Shin Bet internal security service that they often target haredi Jews due to the high likelihood that they are unarmed.


Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #839 on: April 09, 2018, 12:16:47 am »
Shut up and register your guns like the nice Europeans.  And get on this cattle car over here.....

I don't know. A train trip through Europe sounds nice.


Offline roamer_1

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #840 on: April 09, 2018, 12:25:21 am »
THERE WERE AND HAVE BEEN NO CONFISCATIONS.

We could go on.

No, you really can't. the obvious operative is 'there have been no confiscations YET'.  Socialism, or 3rd-way socialism in those countries has only been in power for what, 50 years? Hardly a generation.

Watch and see.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #841 on: April 09, 2018, 12:32:40 am »
I don't know if a couple or even a few is Many.

Israel proves the NRA's arguments

...

Very interesting, @Elderberry!

Offline LauraTXNM

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #842 on: April 09, 2018, 01:41:10 am »
The citizens of the countries you list are, with the exception of Canada (who, notably, refused to comply with registration of their long guns), are in Europe with a tradition of being "subjects."  The US has a grand tradition of not trusting the government, and no level of cajoling and shaming is going to change that.

@Cyber Liberty
The Czech Republic's example speaks directly to the point you are making.  They have known confiscation under two different regimes and are determined not to repeat it.
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Offline LauraTXNM

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #843 on: April 09, 2018, 01:44:01 am »
If you say so.  I'm not impressed with that SHORT list, so I still won't comply.

We're not dum dums.  Obviously somebody could come up with a few examples.  I find it hysterical it wasn't you to do it.  Maybe somebody tried to send it to you in a PM?

Seriously, @Cyber Liberty?  Would you like me to keep going?  The Czechs alone should be highly instructive and relevant to the point.  Please give me a number -- how many examples do you need?  10?  50?  Will any number satisfy?
Micah 6:8  "...what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

Disclaimer: I am a liberal, progressive, feminist, here because I like talking to you all.  We're all this together.

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #844 on: April 09, 2018, 01:52:16 am »
@Cyber Liberty
The Czech Republic's example speaks directly to the point you are making.  They have known confiscation under two different regimes and are determined not to repeat it.

Its only talk at this point.

We don't want to disarm our citizens at a time when the security situation in Europe is getting worse… Show me a single terrorist attack in Europe perpetrated using a legally-owned weapon.” According to Prague.tv, Member of the Chamber of Deputies Jana Černochová correctly pointed out, “forbidding legal ownership of guns is a tactic often used by undemocratic and totalitarian regimes.”

The Czech Republic’s forward-thinking recognition that armed citizens can play an important role in combatting terrorist violence stands in stark contrast with much of Europe. On May 24, the European Union finalized changes to the political bloc’s European Firearms Directive that restrict lawful firearm ownership in the union’s 28 member states. The changes were expedited in response to the November 2015 terrorist attacks in Paris and include a ban on the civilian possession of certain types of semi-automatic firearms and onerous new licensing and registration provisions.

Under Czech legislative procedure, the proposed constitutional amendment now moves to the Senate, where a three-fifth’s majority is required for passage. Should the amendment pass the Senate, it will then go to Czech President Milos Zeman for his consideration.


https://www.nraila.org/articles/20170630/czech-lower-house-approves-gun-rights-constitutional-amendment

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #845 on: April 09, 2018, 01:56:20 am »
I for one do not want to use Europe as a model.  Unless it's croissants, wine or cheese they have screwed up everything they've touched for centuries.  That's why we left the old country and made this new country.  With few exceptions they have shown themselves perfectly willing to give everything to the govt.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #846 on: April 09, 2018, 02:01:35 am »
Many responses on Canadian, Israeli, and Swiss gun ownership, so I'll answer them here.

Canada: From 1995 to 2012, provinces had registries of "non-restricted" guns.   All have ended the registries but Quebec, which is continuing to strengthen its system.  THERE WERE AND HAVE BEEN NO CONFISCATIONS.

Switzerland: For purchase from a shop or private party transfer or transaction, information is kept by the canton bureau. 

Israel: Harder to get a license, yes.  But handguns are registered. 

Czech Republic: An interesting case, because they are very pro-ownership after the Nazi/USSR gun prohibitions and would never come close to confiscation.  Self-defense is a principle, permits are shall-issue, etc., etc.  But they still have registration of handguns, etc.

We could go on.
Pray do. Canada is just up the road from my house, and the reason the "registry" was ended is that it never was implemented fully. There was a little compliance in the far east and west, but the rest of Canadians REFUSED TO COMPLY. They quit trying to invoke it when the anticipated 1 million dollar cost ballooned into a Billion dollar tab, and they were not even half way done. In short, because Canadians wouldn't do it, the government gave up.

You have seen the lengthy sets of examples, some in this country, of jurisdictions which have used registration as a confiscation tool. It is by no means a complete list, but the bottom line is that there are more than enough examples of registries being used to round up guns that concern is prudent and warranted.
No. I will not register one damned thing. Those who push such a scheme will have blood on their hands if they succeed.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 02:02:30 am by Smokin Joe »
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Offline LauraTXNM

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #847 on: April 09, 2018, 02:04:53 am »
Pray do. Canada is just up the road from my house, and the reason the "registry" was ended is that it never was implemented fully. There was a little compliance in the far east and west, but the rest of Canadians REFUSED TO COMPLY. They quit trying to invoke it when the anticipated 1 million dollar cost ballooned into a Billion dollar tab, and they were not even half way done. In short, because Canadians wouldn't do it, the government gave up.

You have seen the lengthy sets of examples, some in this country, of jurisdictions which have used registration as a confiscation tool. It is by no means a complete list, but the bottom line is that there are more than enough examples of registries being used to round up guns that concern is prudent and warranted.
No. I will not register one damned thing. Those who push such a scheme will have blood on their hands if they succeed.

You're speaking of the long gun registry, not the provincial ones.  But never mind.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #848 on: April 09, 2018, 02:12:07 am »
Seriously, @Cyber Liberty?  Would you like me to keep going?  The Czechs alone should be highly instructive and relevant to the point.  Please give me a number -- how many examples do you need?  10?  50?  Will any number satisfy?

Do what you want.  I still will not be shamed into behaving like Euroweenies.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline LauraTXNM

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Re: Former Supreme Court justice: ‘Repeal the Second Amendment’
« Reply #849 on: April 09, 2018, 02:13:18 am »
Do what you want.  I still will not be shamed into behaving like Euroweenies.

@Cyber Liberty  I understand your statement to mean, that you're not interested in further examples, whether European or elsewhere.  Is that correct?
Micah 6:8  "...what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

Disclaimer: I am a liberal, progressive, feminist, here because I like talking to you all.  We're all this together.