Author Topic: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids  (Read 2806 times)

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rangerrebew

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Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids

 

It may be time to rethink prescribing opioids for chronic pain.

Opioid pain relievers demonstrated no advantages over non-opioid medications for treating chronic back and arthritis pain over a one-year period, but they did lead to more side effects, concludes a study published today in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA).

“We already knew opioids were more dangerous than other treatment options because they put people at risk for accidental death and addiction. This study shows that extra risk doesn’t come with any extra benefit,” Dr. Erin Krebs, lead study author and women’s health medical director at the Minneapolis VA Health Care System, told Healthline.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/opioids-dont-relieve-chronic-pain-better-than-non-opioids

Offline aligncare

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2018, 06:56:11 am »
Yeah, but they make you feel soooo good you don’t mind the pain.

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2018, 07:39:27 am »
The druggies will lose their minds if you threaten their dope. I have an aunt with dementia and she can't figure out where she is half the time but she knows how many pills she has.
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Offline driftdiver

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2018, 07:41:10 am »
I can say from personal experience they do work better.
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Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2018, 08:28:57 am »
A VA doctor is telling me this? I'll pass on that.

Offline Applewood

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2018, 01:07:18 pm »
I don't know about chronic pain, but for temporary pain from a broken ankle and such -- all it did for me was make me not care about the pain...or anything else for that matter.  People would say something to me and I'd reply, "what?  Huh?"  I was awake but out of it.  Not the effect I was looking for.  Last time I had a scrip for a combination of Oxy and Tylenol.  Took it for 2 days before I quit and just took OTC Tylenol.   Pain relief without feeling any more spacey than I already am.

Offline the_doc

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2018, 01:53:23 pm »
The title is misleading.  Back pain and arthritic pain are subsets of chronic pain.  I agree that opioids are overprescribed, but there are a lot of bad pains that respond NOT AT ALL to NSAIDs and Tylenol.

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2018, 03:14:28 pm »
The title is misleading.  Back pain and arthritic pain are subsets of chronic pain.  I agree that opioids are overprescribed, but there are a lot of bad pains that respond NOT AT ALL to NSAIDs and Tylenol.

Yeah, whoever wrote this never had a major orthopedic surgery like a hip replacement or a broken leg.  Like Hell is an NSAID better than Hydrocodone, at least for the first several weeks.  Tylenol is the most worthless drug on the market to me, it works as well as chalk for the pain, and it's rough as all get-out on the liver.

There was a point I noticed the NSAIDS were more effective after hip surgery, and that was because the pain wasn't from a broken bone but from inflammation.  I liked Naproxin.
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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2018, 03:43:58 pm »
Yeah, but they make you feel soooo good you don’t mind the pain.
Really? Is that your personal experience? Because I have decades history of prescribed Opioids for pain relief and other than when I received an injection of a really potent pain med, I never experienced what you stated. And as far as the article, when I experience serious pain OTC doesn't do jack, to put it politely.

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2018, 03:49:47 pm »
Really? Is that your personal experience? Because I have decades history of prescribed Opioids for pain relief and other than when I received an injection of a really potent pain med, I never experienced what you stated. And as far as the article, when I experience serious pain OTC doesn't do jack, to put it politely.

Tylenol is the most worthless "drug" I've ever seen.  Why the Hell they use it to buffer Opioids is beyond me, it does more damage to the liver than the Opioids.  That stuff is as effective as chalk for killing pain.
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Offline the_doc

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2018, 04:01:47 pm »
Tylenol is the most worthless "drug" I've ever seen.  Why the Hell they use it to buffer Opioids is beyond me, it does more damage to the liver than the Opioids.  That stuff is as effective as chalk for killing pain.

Yeah, Tylenol can be pretty hard on the liver.  However, studies have shown that it potentiates the narcotic to a measurable degree. 

As a stand-alone pain med, Tylenol doesn't work as well for inflammatory pain as NSAIDs do (because Tylenol has no anti-inflammatory properties whatsoever).

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2018, 05:55:55 pm »
Duhhhhhh! Who ever made the claim they do?  Their purpose is to temporarily reduce the pain down to a bearable level so surgery can be performed,and for that,they definitely do the job.

Ask anybody who has ever had kidney stones if they would take narcotics to ease the level of pain if given the chance. If there is anything that hurts more than kidney stones,I don't even want to know about it.
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Offline Applewood

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2018, 05:57:07 pm »
Tylenol is the most worthless "drug" I've ever seen.  Why the Hell they use it to buffer Opioids is beyond me, it does more damage to the liver than the Opioids.  That stuff is as effective as chalk for killing pain.

NSAIDS would be better.  However, some of us can't take them.  People with chronic kidney disease like yours truly are warned not to take them. 

Aspirin upsets the tummy.  I take a low dose aspirin for the heart, but that's as much as I can stand.

My doctor told me so long as I don't overuse Tylenol, my liver will be fine.  I think taking more than the recommended dose at intervals shorter than what the package says is where people get into trouble. 
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 06:22:54 pm by Applewood »

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2018, 06:00:56 pm »
Yeah, but they make you feel soooo good you don’t mind the pain.

@aligncare

I know you are joking,but for those who don't know better,opioids work less well the longer you take them. They are nothing more than a temporary solution to managing pain. Because of this you should NEVER take them until and unless you are in pain on a level that is unbearable. Even then you only take the minimum amount for the minimum amount of time. Their pain-relieving qualities is a Golden Goose you really don't want to cook.

Besides,up to a point,pain is your friend. It is your bodies way of telling you there is a problem that needs your immediate attention,and to be careful to not do anything that might make it worse. You should listen to this,not ignore it.
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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2018, 06:05:08 pm »
Tylenol is the most worthless "drug" I've ever seen.  Why the Hell they use it to buffer Opioids is beyond me, it does more damage to the liver than the Opioids.  That stuff is as effective as chalk for killing pain.

ditto...Tylenol has never worked for me.

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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2018, 06:06:37 pm »

  Took it for 2 days before I quit and just took OTC Tylenol. 


@Applewood

Which is EXACTLY what you were supposed to do. Oxy and similar drugs are for PAIN MANAGEMENT. They don't "fix" anything. You just take them to keep the pain at a bearable level to give your body a chance to start healing. If you are still in major pain 3 or 4 days after an injury,you need to go see a doctor again.

IN FACT,the sooner you are able to stop taking any pain relief medicine,the better off you will be. Your body uses pain as a tool to tell you that you are injured and to avoid doing anything that would or could make the injury worse. If you continue to keep yourself bombed into oblivion for more than a couple of days after the initial injury,you are likely to forget you are injured,and do something stupid that will make the injury even more serious. Listen to the message your body sends you.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 06:08:59 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2018, 06:18:06 pm »
Really? Is that your personal experience? Because I have decades history of prescribed Opioids for pain relief and other than when I received an injection of a really potent pain med, I never experienced what you stated. And as far as the article, when I experience serious pain OTC doesn't do jack, to put it politely.

@GtHawk

I know/hope you are aware that long-term use of opioids weakens the heart. Yeah,if the pain is unbearable,you have no choice but to take them,but there is a price to be paid down the road.

I had a friend that probably died 10-15 years too early after getting one of his legs traumatically amputated by a AK round on Hickory Hill near DaNang. He not only had "ghost pains" from his missing leg,but the artificial legs people had to use back then weren't no where near as comfortable or work as well as the high-tech ones of today,and his stub was always sore and hurting. Truth to tell,he had taken narcotics for the pain for so long I seriously doubt they even worked anymore. He probably had to keep taking it just to keep from getting sick.

But in his case it was a trade-off. He had to take them to make live worth living,so he had an additional 25-30 years of life he might not have had without the drugs.
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Offline Applewood

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2018, 06:24:53 pm »
Duhhhhhh! Who ever made the claim they do?  Their purpose is to temporarily reduce the pain down to a bearable level so surgery can be performed,and for that,they definitely do the job.

Ask anybody who has ever had kidney stones if they would take narcotics to ease the level of pain if given the chance. If there is anything that hurts more than kidney stones,I don't even want to know about it.

I believe childbirth might be as painful or more so.  But I get what you're saying.

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2018, 06:25:20 pm »
@GtHawk

I know/hope you are aware that long-term use of opioids weakens the heart. Yeah,if the pain is unbearable,you have no choice but to take them,but there is a price to be paid down the road.

I had a friend that probably died 10-15 years too early after getting one of his legs traumatically amputated by a AK round on Hickory Hill near DaNang. He not only had "ghost pains" from his missing leg,but the artificial legs people had to use back then weren't no where near as comfortable or work as well as the high-tech ones of today,and his stub was always sore and hurting. Truth to tell,he had taken narcotics for the pain for so long I seriously doubt they even worked anymore. He probably had to keep taking it just to keep from getting sick.

But in his case it was a trade-off. He had to take them to make live worth living,so he had an additional 25-30 years of life he might not have had without the drugs.
@sneakypete
Yes, thank you I am and have been quite aware of the risks, fortunately I was not a daily user, only when the pain was intolerable. And even now with the pablum they prescribe me, Tramadol, I put it off as long as possible.

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2018, 06:35:32 pm »
I believe childbirth might be as painful or more so.  But I get what you're saying.

@Applewood

I have been told that childbirth and kidney stones are pretty close,but that is a contest with no winner in any sense of the word. I like to think I have a high tolerance for pain,but both times I had kidney stones they had me wanting my mama to make it go away.
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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2018, 06:39:53 pm »
Ask anybody who has ever had kidney stones if they would take narcotics to ease the level of pain if given the chance. If there is anything that hurts more than kidney stones,I don't even want to know about it.

Done both. Gout beats it.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2018, 06:43:00 pm »
Done both. Gout beats it.

@Restored

I just don't even know how that would be possible.
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Offline the_doc

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2018, 07:20:27 pm »
@GtHawk

I know/hope you are aware that long-term use of opioids weakens the heart. Yeah,if the pain is unbearable,you have no choice but to take them,but there is a price to be paid down the road.

The worst thing by far about the opioids is the fact that they lower your pain threshold.  Over time, it requires more and more narcotics to mask any given pain.  This is sometimes called "drug tolerance," but it even more pernicious than most folks realize.  Withdrawal is excruciating.  Practically everything hurts--BAD.


Done both. Gout beats it.

I've had patients tell me that.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 07:23:19 pm by the_doc »

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2018, 07:25:24 pm »
 
Quote
Practically everything hurts--BAD.


@the_doc

I'm not sure I understand what they were talking about,but I have heard people claim "You have to pay extra for the stuff that hurts good".
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Offline the_doc

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2018, 07:30:19 pm »


@the_doc

I'm not sure I understand what they were talking about,but I have heard people claim "You have to pay extra for the stuff that hurts good".

LOL.

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2018, 07:32:46 pm »
A lot of this discussion involves drawing the distinction between "chronic pain" and "acute pain." 
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2018, 07:36:45 pm »
A lot of this discussion involves drawing the distinction between "chronic pain" and "acute pain."

@Cyber Liberty

Or should,anyhow. The CAN both be the same thing,but that is clearly not always the case.
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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2018, 08:25:24 pm »
The worst thing by far about the opioids is the fact that they lower your pain threshold.  Over time, it requires more and more narcotics to mask any given pain.  This is sometimes called "drug tolerance," but it even more pernicious than most folks realize.  Withdrawal is excruciating.  Practically everything hurts--BAD.


I've had patients tell me that.
Well I know that after years of use of Vicodin for migraines it became ineffective, so yeah I agree, it resulted in having to take extra which caused a crawling out of my skin sensation as well as horrendous rebound headaches, that's why even years later when I had surgeries I couldn't take them, and morphine just makes me nauseous. As for withdrawal? I am very fortunate to not have an addictive personality and never had any withdrawal from opioids or cigarettes, and trust me I count my blessings.

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2018, 08:27:24 pm »
A lot of this discussion involves drawing the distinction between "chronic pain" and "acute pain."
I think they go hand in hand with one being inconsistent aspect of the other, at least for me. :shrug:

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2018, 10:54:02 pm »
I think they go hand in hand with one being inconsistent aspect of the other, at least for me. :shrug:

@GtHawk

Probably true,but when you are hurting it is hard to make a distinction.

I hurt somewhere every day. Usually several "somewheres". The major difference is some days are better than others.
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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2018, 11:01:23 pm »
@GtHawk

Probably true,but when you are hurting it is hard to make a distinction.

I hurt somewhere every day. Usually several "somewheres". The major difference is some days are better than others.
@sneakypete
I know we took very different roads, but I think we ended up at the same destination. May you have many of the better days! :beer:

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2018, 03:45:48 am »
@sneakypete
I know we took very different roads, but I think we ended up at the same destination. May you have many of the better days! :beer:

@GtHawk

And the same for you.
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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2018, 09:09:38 am »

I just don't even know how that would be possible.

Look at your knee. Now imagine if someone poured ground glass into the joints. That's what it feels like.
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Offline Victoria33

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2018, 09:42:51 am »
@GtHawk

And the same for you.
@sneakypete
@GtHawk

As people here know, I take Vicodin (hydrocodone).  My doc goes by the book and hates he has to go through so much crap to give me that.  He said if he could find something that would work as well, he would give me that - so far, he has not found anything comparable to it.  I have a fast metabolism and think that is one reason why it works fairly fast to dull my pain.  I am never without pain, but it is bearable, most of the time, with this med.

What irritates me is Trump wants to go after drug companies.  That makes no sense.  They are in the business of making drugs, legal drugs, that is what they do; they don't prescribe but they are easy to get to, Trump has their names and locations, so Trump wants them to do what?  Stop making drugs?  That is totally stupid.  If they couldn't make drugs, they would go out of business, and no one could get any drug.  If that is what he wants, he is dumb as a stump (which he is). 

Those of us who have pain, like you two, know what it is like to wake up every morning with pain so bad you can't stay in bed any longer, and getting up is painful too, then getting something in your stomach so you can take your meds and feel better, able to put clothes on and move around the house.

By the way, my doc is a happy Jew - he comes in the room, gets the exam over with humor - does it make a difference he is a Jew?  He is a great guy.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2018, 10:01:01 am »
@sneakypete
@GtHawk

Quote
As people here know, I take Vicodin (hydrocodone).  My doc goes by the book and hates he has to go through so much crap to give me that.  He said if he could find something that would work as well, he would give me that - so far, he has not found anything comparable to it.  I have a fast metabolism and think that is one reason why it works fairly fast to dull my pain.  I am never without pain, but it is bearable, most of the time, with this med.

I'm glad you have found something that kinda works for you. I just wish it were something less harmful that worked better. Then again,don't we all wish for that,for ourselves as well as for others?


Quote
What irritates me is Trump wants to go after drug companies.  That makes no sense.  They are in the business of making drugs, legal drugs, that is what they do; they don't prescribe but they are easy to get to, Trump has their names and locations, so Trump wants them to do what?  Stop making drugs?  That is totally stupid.  If they couldn't make drugs, they would go out of business, and no one could get any drug.  If that is what he wants, he is dumb as a stump (which he is). 

He is going after drug companies because they basically have a license to steal from the public treasury,and they do. To the tune of billions per year by collection Medicaid money. They are BUSINESSES IN BUSINESS TO EARN A PROFIT,not to help you or anyone else. As long as they can sell Vicodin,for example,at an obscene profit they hold a patent on,they have no incentive to to develop a drug that works better,and you KNOW they won't create a new one that will be cheaper. That would eat into their profits.

In FACT,I have seen reports from former insiders who claim the drug companies have been known to try to prevent the development of new drugs that would compete with theirs by filing lawsuits,buying out the smaller companies,using political influence to pass new laws to make it harder to get new drugs approved,etc,etc,etc.

Once again,they are in business to make money and help themselves,not you. If you also happen to be helped by something they do,that's just a bonus.

Someone else mentioned having to take daily pills that cost $6 each. Chances are that pill has been sold for decades now,and they can make 100 of them for a penny each. Even after all the associated expenses of getting them to the end customer,they would still be making an insane profit if they sold them for $1 each at the retail level.

So,yeah,given the HUGE chunk of the budget they get every year with no real competition,they NEED to be investigated,and watched like a hawk.



Quote
By the way, my doc is a happy Jew - he comes in the room, gets the exam over with humor - does it make a difference he is a Jew?
 

Not to anyone that is sane.
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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2018, 10:49:01 am »
@Victoria33

Sorry to hear about that.  My friend that I talk about has that morning pain issue too.  She recently switched to Tramadol because her Doc was forced to cut her off the Hydrocodone by the State.  She's had good luck with it because it's faster acting.  That might prove to be the opposite of what you need if your metabolism is fast.
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Offline Victoria33

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2018, 12:05:01 pm »
@sneakypete

You said, "He is going after drug companies because they basically have a license to steal from the public treasury,and they do. To the tune of billions per year by collection Medicaid money. They are BUSINESSES IN BUSINESS TO EARN A PROFIT,not to help you or anyone else. As long as they can sell Vicodin, for example, at an obscene profit they hold a patent on,they have no incentive to to develop a drug that works better, and you KNOW they won't create a new one that will be cheaper. That would eat into their profits."

These are my opinions:

First, Trump is going after drug companies to stop them making opioid drugs.  If they stop making them, we can't get them and he thinks that would stop the problem with opioids.  This is not to stop drug companies getting money.

Second, Medicaid patients need drugs, too.  Medicaid doesn't just give the drug companies money for nothing.

Third, there IS a generic for Vicodin, and that is what I take, hydrocodone, the same mixture as Vicodin.  Sixty hydrocodone tablets costs me $18.66 with my insurance.  That is a one month supply and should have to go back to doc, see him face to face to get another month's worth.  However, he gives me three prescriptions at a time.  I take one to the drug company every month for three months, then have to go back to see doc face to face to get another three month's worth.

Fourth, you are exactly right about drugs with no generic.  My hands broke out with Eczema three months ago, the skin flaked off and there was raw skin bleeding.  Went to dermatologist, she gave me a script for a smallish tube of steroid cream.  The cost was $280!  With my insurance, I paid $77 for this small tube.  There is no way a tube of anything costs $280.  Many people could not get this cream unless they had good insurance, which I have, but $77 is still too much to pay for this tube of cream and many could not afford that - "do I get groceries or buy this cream?".  The cream did work and my hands cleared up, no more raw skin bleeding (did I mention raw skin made it painful to use my hands?), but I have to keep using it.

On my second trip to dermatologist for her to see if it was better, which it was cleared up, she gave me a card to get the cream cheaper, and that cost me $55 dollars with that card.  What is it with cards we don't know about that gets us a cheaper price?  Doctors have these cards to pass out when they want.  I don't have to go back to dermatologist, but have to keep using this expensive cream.  It is use that or have bleeding hands that really hurt.

Thanks for taking the time to write your long post.

Offline Victoria33

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2018, 12:09:56 pm »
@Victoria33

Sorry to hear about that.  My friend that I talk about has that morning pain issue too.  She recently switched to Tramadol because her Doc was forced to cut her off the Hydrocodone by the State.  She's had good luck with it because it's faster acting.  That might prove to be the opposite of what you need if your metabolism is fast.
@Cyber Liberty

If the Texas Board of Health stops people getting hydrocodone, I am going to have a major fit.  As I have said, my doc is looking for something to replace it that works as it does, but as yet he has nothing to replace it.  I will ask him about Tramadol the next time I see him.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2018, 05:23:46 pm »
@sneakypete


Fourth, you are exactly right about drugs with no generic.  My hands broke out with Eczema three months ago, the skin flaked off and there was raw skin bleeding.  Went to dermatologist, she gave me a script for a smallish tube of steroid cream.  The cost was $280!  With my insurance, I paid $77 for this small tube.  There is no way a tube of anything costs $280.  Many people could not get this cream unless they had good insurance, which I have, but $77 is still too much to pay for this tube of cream and many could not afford that - "do I get groceries or buy this cream?".  The cream did work and my hands cleared up, no more raw skin bleeding (did I mention raw skin made it painful to use my hands?), but I have to keep using it.

On my second trip to dermatologist for her to see if it was better, which it was cleared up, she gave me a card to get the cream cheaper, and that cost me $55 dollars with that card.  What is it with cards we don't know about that gets us a cheaper price?  Doctors have these cards to pass out when they want.  I don't have to go back to dermatologist, but have to keep using this expensive cream.  It is use that or have bleeding hands that really hurt.

Thanks for taking the time to write your long post.

I ain't no doctor and don't even play one on teebee,but I SUSPECT the difference between the two cremes is more than the cost. The first creme that was so expensive was probably so effective because it was more powerful. The second one that was cheaper is probably powerful enough to keep your condition under control once the cracks and bleeding have stopped,but not powerful enough to stop them. It is obviously easier to maintain a healthy condition than it is to create one.

While it is true the drug companies would screw you in a minute for profit,unless your doc is a major stockholder in that drug company,he or she didn't make a dime out of giving you the prescription for the expensive stuff first.
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Offline Victoria33

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2018, 09:44:26 am »
@sneakypete

It was the same steroid cream - not different creams.  $77 with my insurance, $55 using the card she gave me.  Again, no small tube of any cream should cost $280.

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2018, 10:33:11 am »
@sneakypete

It was the same steroid cream - not different creams.  $77 with my insurance, $55 using the card she gave me.  Again, no small tube of any cream should cost $280.

The coupon cards come and go, your Dr. probably did not have the card the first time you had to get the cream.

They love to charge for that stuff.  I had to get some Psoriasis medication once that was similarly priced for  a little tiny tube.  The Insurance wouldn't cover it until they did a confirmation call with the Dr.  I got it, but the gel was expensive as Heck.
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Offline GtHawk

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2018, 12:12:36 am »
@sneakypete

It was the same steroid cream - not different creams.  $77 with my insurance, $55 using the card she gave me.  Again, no small tube of any cream should cost $280.
@Victoria33
My wife needs a steroid cream and the price is similar, she was getting it using  GoodRx and getting it at Walmart for seventy plus dollars and just found out she could get it at Costco for almost half as much. my wife's insurance is pretty weak, all we can afford like many others, we end up getting her meds at several different pharmacies shopping for the best prices. Fortunately for us we have all the major pharmacies within 2 miles or less.

Offline Victoria33

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2018, 12:28:01 am »
@Victoria33
My wife needs a steroid cream and the price is similar, she was getting it using  GoodRx and getting it at Walmart for seventy plus dollars and just found out she could get it at Costco for almost half as much. my wife's insurance is pretty weak, all we can afford like many others, we end up getting her meds at several different pharmacies shopping for the best prices. Fortunately for us we have all the major pharmacies within 2 miles or less.
@sneakypete
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@GtHawk

We all need to get the government's message to us:  DIE

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2018, 12:36:35 am »
@sneakypete
@Cyber Liberty
@GtHawk

We all need to get the government's message to us:  DIE
@Victoria33
Bummer for them, they must be talking into my deaf ear! I don't plan on going anywhere, I have another granddaughter coming this year and stayin to see her grow up!. It's  what I've been telling my mom for a couple of years now, she's 87 in poor health and hurting, but great grand kids keep coming along (four this year, a bumper crop!) and I tell her they need to know her.

Offline Victoria33

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2018, 12:40:06 am »
@Victoria33
Bummer for them, they must be talking into my deaf ear! I don't plan on going anywhere, I have another granddaughter coming this year and stayin to see her grow up!. It's  what I've been telling my mom for a couple of years now, she's 87 in poor health and hurting, but great grand kids keep coming along (four this year, a bumper crop!) and I tell her they need to know her.
@GtHawk

Good for telling her that.  I am 84 and trying to figure out what I am going to be when I grow up.

Offline GtHawk

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2018, 01:05:25 am »
@GtHawk

Good for telling her that.  I am 84 and trying to figure out what I am going to be when I grow up.
@Victoria33
Trouble I had is I never wanted to grow up, so far I've been pretending well enough to fool everyone though! One day soon I'm gonna quit acting and have one heck of a second childhood, while I still can.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 01:06:09 am by GtHawk »

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2018, 11:56:32 am »
@sneakypete
@Cyber Liberty
@GtHawk

We all need to get the government's message to us:  DIE

As Democrat Alan Grayson said, "And DIE QUICKLY."  He forgot to add "In mortal PAIN!" 9999hair out0000
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Offline Suppressed

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Re: Opioids Don’t Relieve Chronic Pain Any Better Than Non-Opioids
« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2018, 10:03:47 pm »
Last prescription I filled was $1,500 (30 pills), and the one before that was $5,000 (at least that was for 90 days).

I've actually done some research on these meds.

The second one is made by a very complex and touchy process.  It makes sense that it's expensive, and I don't know that the drug company should be punished for it, having to have all the controls in place for quality assurance and quality control.

The $30/pill for the first one (and, like @Victoria33, I metabolize meds quickly, so I have to take 3 of them at a time) is wholly a creation of the government and lawyers.  It takes only a few cents to make each capsule, yet the government has such strict controls on it, and lawyers have sued so successfully about it, and there are other political considerations, the price has been jacked up.

And remember, since I'm one of the very few filling this prescription, if I stop filling my prescription monthly, the pharmacy is out $5,000+ in inventory they must discard when it expires.  It was tough finding a pharmacy willing to take that risk, all for a pill that costs a few pennies to manufacture.

If the law allowed, I'd consider figuring out how to make my own!
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