Trump uses State of the Union to go all in on immigration reform

[sneakypete]

      Illegals can't vote.

@Jazzhead

Uh,huh. Somebody is spiking your bong water with acid if you believe that crap. What do you think the whole "motor voter" laws were all about?

[bilo]

Well, maybe instead of engaging in hatred and xenophobia, you might try persuading any new voters that your political views are better for them than are the democrats?

Nah, too hard; it might require patience and hard work, and lacks the instant gratification of indulging in hatred.

How well has that worked for the Pubs in CA?

Come on lets stop with the tired old put downs of those with opposing views and look at what objective facts we have. As a group an overwhelming majority of latinos vote for Rats. As CA.'s % of latinos has increased the state has had fewer and fewer Pubs elected. It's safe to say the same trend will occur in other states that are seeing unchecked illegal immigration. Texas will be the next big prize for the Rats and after that falls it will be impossible for the Pubs to elect another POTUS.

[sneakypete]

I agree.  I'd add that there should be a distinction between standards for immigration, and standards for accepting refugees, who seek to come here to escape persecution.

@Jazzhead

Since when is it the obligation of OUR taxpayers to support someone from a foreign country being persecuted by their home nation?

I say hand them a rifle and some ammunition at the border,and then turn them around and point out the direction they need to go to find home.

[Jazzhead]

Sorry, no loopholes. We can provide food, blankets and encouragement for others to throw off oppression, but our immigration system has NO other use than to benefit Americans first, foremost and only.

It certainly should not be used to benefit a few fat cats and one political party over another, as it is currently.

I agree that the immigration system should be designed to benefit Americans and the American economy.   But I have no objection to a separate program that addresses the issue of refugees.  Many refugees from Castro's Cuba, for example, have contributed mightily to this country.   Socialist countries tend to reject their best and brightest.  I bet there's a lot of talent in, say, Venezuela, that we could use. 

[sneakypete]

Sorry, no loopholes. We can provide food, blankets and encouragement for others to throw off oppression, but our immigration system has NO other use than to benefit Americans first, foremost and only.

  There it is!

[bilo]

See, that's the thing - too many see Hispanic voters as beyond the reach of the GOP.   Well,  how can that be when so many of them are culturally conservative?  Of course,  the Dems ride the identity politics train, but we go along for the ride when we condemn "amnesty" for folks who didn't break any laws to come here and darkly suggest that allowing them to remain will change our "demographics".

It's just ignorant to suggest that the growth in numbers of a different demographic group won't change the demographics of an entire population.

The argument that latinos are culturally conservative and therefor will vote for Pubs ignores the facts of actual voting. The same argument has been made about African-American voters and yet they still vote for the Rats in overwhelming numbers. The cultural view of a group tends to be negated by that same group's view that govt is the first source to solve problems and that a centralized big federal govt is a good thing.

[bilo]

All the black community has done by continuing to support the Democrat party en masse is trade one form of slavery and one type of plantation for another.

 

[skeeter]

It's just ignorant to suggest that the growth in numbers of a different demographic group won't change the demographics of an entire population.

The argument that latinos are culturally conservative and therefor will vote for Pubs ignores the facts of actual voting. The same argument has been made about African-American voters and yet they still vote for the Rats in overwhelming numbers. The cultural view of a group tends to be negated by that same group's view that govt is the first source to solve problems and that a centralized big federal govt is a good thing.

Correct. What message can win over a majority of these people?

Your miserable situation is no ones fault but your own.
Its wrong to take public assistance. Don't do it.
Be self reliant, work hard & after 40 years retire on SSI. BTW Uncle Sam will take a huge chunk of whats you earn & give it to someone else.

Opposed to:

You're a oppressed person from a noble race. Its the white patriarchy's fault you can't get ahead. Elect me and I'll be your voice.
Here's free money. You deserve it.
Work if you want, but if you do we'll give your free money to someone else.

Good luck with winning over all those 'natural republicans'.

[Jazzhead]

Correct. What message can win over a majority of these people?

Your miserable situation is no ones fault but your own.
Its wrong to take public assistance. Don't do it.
Be self reliant, work hard & after 40 years retire on SSI. BTW Uncle Sam will take a huge chunk of whats you earn & give it to someone else.

Opposed to:

You're a oppressed person from a noble race. Its the white patriarchy's fault you can't get ahead. Elect me and I'll be your voice.
Here's free money. You deserve it.
Work if you want, but if you do we'll give your free money to someone else.

Good luck with winning over all those 'natural republicans'.

Completely disagree.  Why do you have so little faith in the conservative message?   Liberty and opportunity for all willing to work hard!    What we need to avoid is messaging that suggests that only "certain kinds" are welcome here.  The Dems are race baiters - we need to recognize when we say shit that feeds into their odious message.   

[sneakypete]

What message can win over a majority of these people?

@skeeter

Earn your own living or starve? That's the most convincing argument I can come up with.

[skeeter]

Completely disagree.  Why do you have so little faith in the conservative message?   Liberty and opportunity for all willing to work hard!    What we need to avoid is messaging that suggests that only "certain kinds" are welcome here.  The Dems are race baiters - we need to recognize when we say shit that feeds into their odious message.   

Its not the conservative message I have little faith in. Its human nature.

I have even less faith in the human nature of those from cultures who have not cultivated the kinds of values our's has traditionally considered virtuous & desireable.

Open your eyes.

[anubias]

Its not the conservative message I have little faith in. Its human nature.

I have even less faith in the human nature of those from cultures who have not cultivated the kinds of values our's has traditionally considered virtuous & desireable.

Open your eyes.

It’s common sense that you so eloquently stated for him, but he refuses to see.

[libertybele]

@Jazzhead

Uh,huh. Somebody is spiking your bong water with acid if you believe that crap. What do you think the whole "motor voter" laws were all about?

    

[skeeter]

It’s common sense that you so eloquently stated for him, but he refuses to see.

He's not alone, to the nation's ultimate misfortune.

[Jazzhead]

Its not the conservative message I have little faith in. Its human nature.

I have even less faith in the human nature of those from cultures who have not cultivated the kinds of values our's has traditionally considered virtuous & desireable.

Open your eyes.

"

Values, schmalues.    You're problem is with the native born, not immigrants.   "Liberty and opportunity for all willing to work hard" is music to the ears of an immigrant. 

Employers hire immigrants for a reason, ya know - they embodied the work ethic employers traditionally consider virtuous and desirable.     

[Fantom]

"

Values, schmalues.    You're problem is with the native born, not immigrants.   "Liberty and opportunity for all willing to work hard" is music to the ears of an immigrant. 

Employers hire immigrants for a reason, ya know - they embodied the work ethic employers traditionally consider virtuous and desirable.   

Or they work por nada.

There is an easy solution, you come here legally. You have a job, pay your own way. No vote, no welfare for two generations. Then you get full citizenship offspring as well. Those who fall outside of that are sent to processing camps in say... Zimbabwe. We pay them to warehouse the useless load until country of origin claims them and pays us for our troubles.

[Chosen Daughter]

Well said, sir.   It is worth it to "make it more liberal to get rat votes" because removing DACA will give conservatives more leverage to get what they need to address the broader issues of legal and illegal immigration.    Let's not forget that the Dems well know that 75-plus percent of the American people sympathize with the plight of the Dreamers.   They are seen as folks without fault, and caught in a world they never made.

Oh wow!  The drama!!! They are seen as folks without fault, and caught in a world they never made.

That would be a great line for a Democratic news story, and pure baloney.

Not the right thing to reward the parents for bringing their children along on their crime spree.  Crossing the border so that they can return wealthy. 

I knew that Trump would never fulfill campaign promises so I am not surprised.  It was bigly rhetoric.  I do give him credit for doing more than all those spineless GOP politicians who have allowed this for so long.  But many of us are caught in a world we didn't make aren't we.

[Chosen Daughter]

All the black community has done by continuing to support the Democrat party en masse is trade one form of slavery and one type of plantation for another.

Truth

[Chosen Daughter]

"

Values, schmalues.    You're problem is with the native born, not immigrants.   "Liberty and opportunity for all willing to work hard" is music to the ears of an immigrant. 

Employers hire immigrants for a reason, ya know - they embodied the work ethic employers traditionally consider virtuous and desirable.   

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I’ve settled on calling them DACA applicants. An important point, as they no longer are “in the shadows.” They’ve come forward, declared themselves documented. Now what remains is that something humane be done about their status.

they and their family put them in the shadows instead of coming here in broad daylight.

What they did is inhumane, to place themselves and kids into jeopardy as lawbreakers.

This country has no obligation to them whatsoever.

[aligncare]

they and their family put them in the shadows instead of coming here in broad daylight.

What they did is inhumane, to place themselves and kids into jeopardy as lawbreakers.

This country has no obligation to them whatsoever.

That may be true, but as a practical matter more people than not want something humane done about their plight. There isn’t the stomach for deporting these folks who signed up under DACA protections. As Americans we are by nature generous and kind people. DACA applicants won’t be deported, so we might as well get used to it and work towards a consensus solution to the problem Obama left us.

[skeeter]

"

Values, schmalues.    You're problem is with the native born, not immigrants.   "Liberty and opportunity for all willing to work hard" is music to the ears of an immigrant. 

Employers hire immigrants for a reason, ya know - they embodied the work ethic employers traditionally consider virtuous and desirable.   

Yeah, American values are crap. Immigrants - THEY are the virtuous ones.

You wonder why so many Briefers consider you a lib?

[Jazzhead]

Yeah, American values are crap. Immigrants - THEY are the virtuous ones.

You wonder why so many Briefers consider you a lib?

Oh stop with the histrionics.   American values aren't crap.  A strong work ethic is an "American" value - that isn't practiced by a lot of Americans.  But immigrants, almost by definition, have such an ethic -  after all, they have pulled up stakes from family and home and moved thousands of miles here - for the opportunity America provides.   

I'm hardly a "lib" for pointing out that employers value those who work hard and show up to work on time.  That's why so many hire immigrants, because these values are what drive so many of them to come here.   

[skeeter]

Oh stop with the histrionics.   American values aren't crap.  A strong work ethic is an "American" value - that isn't practiced by a lot of Americans.  But immigrants, almost by definition, have such an ethic -  after all, they have pulled up stakes from family and home and moved thousands of miles here - for the opportunity America provides.   

I'm hardly a "lib" for pointing out that employers value those who work hard and show up to work on time.  That's why so many hire immigrants, because these values are what drive so many of them to come here.

Spoken just like someone who's entire body of knowledge on the subject comes from the WSJ editorial page.

Lets just say your understanding of the matter is quite incomplete.

[Sanguine]

Correct. What message can win over a majority of these people?

Your miserable situation is no ones fault but your own.
Its wrong to take public assistance. Don't do it.
Be self reliant, work hard & after 40 years retire on SSI. BTW Uncle Sam will take a huge chunk of whats you earn & give it to someone else.

Opposed to:

You're a oppressed person from a noble race. Its the white patriarchy's fault you can't get ahead. Elect me and I'll be your voice.
Here's free money. You deserve it.
Work if you want, but if you do we'll give your free money to someone else.

Good luck with winning over all those 'natural republicans'.

Sums it up beautifully.