Trump uses State of the Union to go all in on immigration reform

[libertybele]

Trump uses State of the Union to go all in on immigration reform

........Immigration was the single issue President Trump spent the most time discussing, taking up nearly 650 words. He devoted more time to it than his triumphant depiction of the economy and tax reform, the infrastructure plan, and even defense and fighting terrorism.......

............ For the first time in his own words and in a fully public forum, President Trump outlined his offer of a path to citizenship to 1.8 million "Dreamers" who were brought to this country illegally by their parents.

He then made his case for building the wall, and ending the visa lottery and family-based migration.

Love or hate the president's offer, one thing is clear: He won't get a better, more extensive and uninterrupted chance to make his immigration policy case to the both the left and right and everyone in between.

If he can't forge an immigration deal after this speech, he probably won't be able to at all. And if the polls don't move in favor of his border wall and citizenship proposals now, they probably never will.

We won't have to wait long to see if it worked. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has promised to put the DACA issue up to a vote by February 8th.........

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/30/trump-gives-immigration-the-spotlight-in-state-of-the-union-commentary.html

[Frank Cannon]

Trump exposed the Rats last night as the wacko nutjobs they really are. He gave them a huge offer on illegals in return for a wall and they all sat on their hands. Most Americans are going to see it as a fair deal and side with Donny when the Rats inevitably blow it up because of their special interest obligations.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

We must all be thankful to the press for once as they continued panning the audience to show the thunderous applause by Republicans and the scowling by Democrats when Trump mentioned "The National Anthem" or 'Heroes'.

America was shown who is on their side.

[aligncare]

Trump exposed the Rats last night as the wacko nutjobs they really are. He gave them a huge offer on illegals in return for a wall and they all sat on their hands. Most Americans are going to see it as a fair deal and side with Donny when the Rats inevitably blow it up because of their special interest obligations.

Wacko nut job dems, true enough.

But, what about the wacko republicans and conservatives calling for the immediate arrest and deportation of any illegals who are reported to be in attendance at the SOTU speech as guests of democrats and of one republican.

That kind of extreme talk doesn’t help. The focus in any immigration debate should be on achieving an overhaul of the system so that American citizens are protected from unrestrained immigration and not one where politicians determine policy and numbers without any consideration of future impact on America’s unique culture or of its economic impact on citizens.

Reforms should absolutely encompass border security, an end to chain migration and instead go to merit based only, end the visa lottery in its tracks, reduce legal immigration and pause all immigration for an agreed upon period to accommodate assimilation, and then finally, resolve DACA legally.

But conservatives sounding heartless towards people brought here illegally through no willful act of their own is not an argument upon which we can win immigration reforms. That kind of crazy talk only serves to make changing immigration law more difficult to achieve. We’re gonna need democrats for any reform so stay focused on the prize, not pounding on the table.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Wacko nut job dems, true enough.

But, what about the wacko republicans and conservatives calling for the immediate arrest and deportation of any illegals who are reported to be in attendance at the SOTU speech as guests of democrats and of one republican.

That kind of extreme talk doesn’t help. The focus in any immigration debate should be on achieving an overhaul of the system so that American citizens are protected from unrestrained immigration and not one where politicians determine policy and numbers without any consideration of future impact on America’s unique culture or of its economic impact on citizens.

Reforms should absolutely encompass border security, an end to chain migration and instead go to merit based only, end the visa lottery in its tracks, reduce legal immigration and pause all immigration for an agreed upon period to accommodate assimilation, and then finally, resolve DACA legally.

But conservatives sounding heartless towards people brought here illegally through no willful act of their own is not an argument upon which we can win immigration reforms. That kind of crazy talk only serves to make changing immigration law more difficult to achieve. We’re gonna need democrats for any reform so stay focused on the prize, not pounding on the table.

 

[Frank Cannon]

Wacko nut job dems, true enough.

But, what about the wacko republicans and conservatives calling for the immediate arrest and deportation of any illegals who are reported to be in attendance at the SOTU speech as guests of democrats and of one republican.

Your argument falls apart when we see that no illegals were arrested at the SOTU. It was just some discussion on a reasonable assertion that law breakers shouldn't be sitting among our nations lawmakers and President. The Rats didn't just talk about being azzholes, they acted like azzholes on camera in front of the country.

[sneakypete]

Wacko nut job dems, true enough.

But, what about the wacko republicans and conservatives calling for the immediate arrest and deportation of any illegals who are reported to be in attendance at the SOTU speech as guests of democrats and of one republican.

@aligncare

What about them? Arrest their asses,and arrest the criminal politicians that invited them them for harboring fugitives. Don't WE get arrested when WE break laws in public? If it's fair to arrest US,why isn't it fair to arrest the people who make the laws,and who are hired to follow and enforce the laws?

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That kind of extreme talk doesn’t help. The focus in any immigration debate should be on achieving an overhaul of the system so that American citizens are protected from unrestrained immigration and not one where politicians determine policy and numbers without any consideration of future impact on America’s unique culture or of its economic impact on citizens.

In other words,legalize and normalize it as no big deal.

Reforms should absolutely encompass border security, an end to chain migration and instead go to merit based only, end the visa lottery in its tracks, reduce legal immigration and pause all immigration for an agreed upon period to accommodate assimilation, and then finally, resolve DACA legally.

See? Even you understand the problem,so why do you want to minimize the consequences for breaking the laws you support?

But conservatives sounding heartless towards people brought here illegally through no willful act of their own is not an argument upon which we can win immigration reforms. That kind of crazy talk only serves to make changing immigration law more difficult to achieve. We’re gonna need democrats for any reform so stay focused on the prize, not pounding on the table.

Cry me a bleeping river! You will NEVER win if the biggest part of your plan is surrendering to the enemy from the start. These people broke the laws,and our laws either mean something,or they don't. US citizenship either means something,or it doesn't.

[Right_in_Virginia]

A view from the other side ....

Trump’s State of the Union: A diatribe against immigrants
Washington Post, Jan 30, 2018, Jennifer Rubin

<snip>

And then on cue came the meat of the speech: Demonizing immigrants. When he declared, “Struggling communities, especially immigrant communities, will also be helped by immigration policies that focus on the best interests of American workers and American families,” he would have us believe he had not eradicated DACA, had not doubled the deportation of noncriminal illegal immigrants and not understood a single economic study finding immigrants contribute to our society by starting more businesses, committing fewer crimes and owning more homes (by percentage) than the native-born population. He utterly rejects the notion that America is the land of immigrants — the place made prosperous and dynamic by those who come here from elsewhere.

And sure enough he played the “immigrants take from us” card (“my highest loyalty, my greatest compassion, and my constant concern is for America’s children, America’s struggling workers and America’s forgotten communities. I want our youth to grow up to achieve great things. I want our poor to have their chance to rise”).  It never dawns on him that immigrants do benefit our children and struggling workers and are an essential part of a pro-growth agenda. And in yet another scare-mongering tactic he blamed the visa lottery for terrorist attacks: “In recent weeks, two terrorist attacks in New York were made possible by the visa lottery and chain migration.” For those who care to recall the facts, these terrorists were radicalized after years being here and, therefore, do not implicate the lottery system.

More: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2018/01/30/trumps-state-of-the-union-a-diatribe-against-immigrants/?utm_term=.aa5c05090d9b

[aligncare]

Sneaky, as to your last point, “these people broke the law.”

Nonsense, their parents broke the law. Holding the children of illegals accountable for the sins of their parents is wrong. It goes against Americans’ sense of fairness.

My parents brought me here when I was five. To want to punish me for the wrongs of my parents is quintessentially un-American.

[TomSea]

@aligncare




In other words,legalize and normalize it as no big deal.



See? Even you understand the problem,so why do you want to minimize the consequences for breaking the laws you support?

Cry me a bleeping river! You will NEVER win if the biggest part of your plan is surrendering to the enemy from the start. These people broke the laws,and our laws either mean something,or they don't. US citizenship either means something,or it doesn't.

Well said by SneakyPete   , we might have states, big states at that, such as Texas that might flip as the result of dreamers being granted citizenship.

To begin with,  those who would have a path to citizenship would not vote for at least, 10-12 years.

We've got to be careful with demographic change, just to appear like "nice guys".

[Emjay]

Trump exposed the Rats last night as the wacko nutjobs they really are. He gave them a huge offer on illegals in return for a wall and they all sat on their hands. Most Americans are going to see it as a fair deal and side with Donny when the Rats inevitably blow it up because of their special interest obligations.

He really did.  The dems will never get a better offer and I would be okay with the DACA plan if we could actually get everything else he proposed.

Yes, it involves a lot of people but look how many come in currently.  And how few are actually deported.  Plus, it isn't automatic citizenship, it's a path and a long path at that.

[TomSea]

It needs to be said, we have been a generous nation in welcoming new immigrants. We do not need immigration that is 70% from one country. We need to think about Americans too.

Note:

Leading lady of Italy's right campaigns for a baby boom
Isla Binnie

ROME (Reuters) - When a seven months-pregnant Giorgia Meloni put herself forward for the post of mayor of Rome in 2016, her ally Silvio Berlusconi told her that a mother could not do such a tough job.

She stood anyway and lost, partly because her conservative allies deserted her.

Two years later, the pair have linked up in a center-right coalition to fight a national election on March 4, with Meloni insisting that their joint program include measures to help working mothers and encourage people to have children.

Read more at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-election-meloni/leading-lady-of-italys-right-campaigns-for-a-baby-boom-idUSKBN1FK21S

[sneakypete]

Sneaky, as to your last point, “these people broke the law.”

Nonsense, their parents broke the law.

@aligncare

So what? That just makes them accomplices to a crime. Since when have accomplices been rewarded for being a part of a crime?

Holding the children of illegals accountable for the sins of their parents is wrong.

And REWARDING them for the crimes their parents commit is the RIGHT thing to do? In what alternate universe?

It goes against Americans’ sense of fairness.

No,it doesn't. Fairness is people are rewarded for doing what is right,and punished for doing what is wrong or illegal.

My parents brought me here when I was five.

Legally,or illegally? If legally,why have you made no effort to become a legal American citizen?

To want to punish me for the wrongs of my parents is quintessentially un-American.

No,but to reward you by giving you US citizenship as a result of being part of a criminal act is un-American.

If you are not a citizen now,WHY didn't you apply for citizenship earlier,during one of the amnesty periods?

[aligncare]

The kids are not accomplices, they’re non-consensual victims of their parents wrongful act.

Americans are inclined to accept a pathway to legalization for DACA applicants as long as in exchange immigration laws are reformed.

[Right_in_Virginia]

We're not going to frog march 1.8 million people into boats and send them back to the country of origin.

It is just not going to happen.

What the President has proposed is a path to citizenship over a 12 year period for the children brought to America at a young age, subject to education, work and good moral character requirements.

It is not immediate .. but a chance for citizenship.

In exchange for this the President wants

1. a fully secured border:  the wall, more "heroes like CJ" and an end to catch and release
2. an end to the Visa lottery and a move toward a merit based system
3. an end to extended chain migration; limiting it to spouse and minor children

That the democrats will go to their political graves opposing #1 -3 tells us the profound affect these changes will have on migration to the US.  It also tells us how badly the changes are needed and effective they will be.

[sneakypete]

The kids are not accomplices, they’re non-consensual victims of their parents wrongful act.

@aligncare

Nice spin. Or is that a 5 dollar way of saying "accomplices"?

Americans are inclined to accept a pathway to legalization for DACA applicants as long as in exchange immigration laws are reformed.

SOME are,but some still believe in Santa. What it will really do is establish a "hits not my falts!" precedent.

Come up with a plan that has them PROVING they have been productive and law-abiding residents while here AS A RESULT OF BEING BROUGHT HERE AS A CHILD,.and THEN coming up with a temporary citizenship status while they are going though a normal application as a foreigner for US citizenship,and I can go with that.

Blanket instant citizenship? NO FREAKING WAY!

[libertybele]

Sneaky, as to your last point, “these people broke the law.”

Nonsense, their parents broke the law. Holding the children of illegals accountable for the sins of their parents is wrong. It goes against Americans’ sense of fairness.

My parents brought me here when I was five. To want to punish me for the wrongs of my parents is quintessentially un-American.

The majority of them are no longer children.  I would think that if they were truly interested in citizenship, they would have acted before now -- yes, I understand that Bammy made this all possible, but at they end of the day, those that are here need to accept some responsibility.

[sneakypete]

We're not going to frog march 1.8 million people into boats and send them back to the country of origin.
 
It is just not going to happen.

@aligncare  @Right_in_Virginia

In a perfect world,that is EXACTLY what we would do. Unfortunately,we don't live in a perfect world.

What the President has proposed is a path to citizenship for the children brought to America at a young age over a 12 year period, subject to education, work and good moral character requirements.

It is not immediate .. but a chance for citizenship.

In exchange for this the President wants

1. a fully secured border:  the wall, more "heroes like CJ" and an end to catch and release
2. an end to the Visa lottery and a move toward a merit based system
3. an end to extended chain migration; limiting it to spouse and minor children

THAT sounds like a perfectly reasonable compromise to me. He should also add ending the "instant citizenship" clause to current law,that allows any illegal women to run across the border,squat down,and squirt out a new citizen that gives her and the child's father the right to stay here as the relative of an American citizen the old heave-ho. NO MORE ANCHOR BABIES!

That the democrats will go to their political graves opposing #1 -3 tells us the profound affect these changes will have on migration to the US.  It also tells us how badly the changes are needed and effective they will be.

It would only be better if we could see them going to their actual graves. The Dims don't give a damn about His and Her Panics. All they care about is the black vote is no longer the reliable guarantee that it used to be that they would win re-election,or that they would riot and create a Martial Law Police State,so they need to be replaced by a larger and more reliable block of voters. Enter the "browns",even though some are whiter than me. Their political leadership in this country is 100 percent Dim,and maybe 100 percent committed to revolution to "take back California and the Southwest for Mexico!"  IF they can talk these loons into actually taking up arms,they will have the civil unrest they need to seize police state powers,and once they get it,they ain't NEVER going to let it go.

Don't forget,there is nothing even the tiniest bit democratic about these people. They are Stalinist dictators to the core. They are just hiding being the Democrat label to gain power because even they know if they were to publicize their true goals they wouldn't get 10 percent of the vote.

BTW,please do NOT misunderstand this. They have ZERO intention of allowing the communist radicals to seize Ca and the rest of the SW to re-create the "Nation of whatever" it was the Aztecs had. Their goal is to use these immigrants as cannon fodder in order for them to be able to establish Martial Law so they can have the US Military wipe them out to re-establish order. Once they have that authority,they ain't NEVER going to give it up.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Wacko nut job dems, true enough.

But, what about the wacko republicans and conservatives calling for the immediate arrest and deportation of any illegals who are reported to be in attendance at the SOTU speech as guests of democrats and of one republican.

That kind of extreme talk doesn’t help. The focus in any immigration debate should be on achieving an overhaul of the system so that American citizens are protected from unrestrained immigration and not one where politicians determine policy and numbers without any consideration of future impact on America’s unique culture or of its economic impact on citizens.

Reforms should absolutely encompass border security, an end to chain migration and instead go to merit based only, end the visa lottery in its tracks, reduce legal immigration and pause all immigration for an agreed upon period to accommodate assimilation, and then finally, resolve DACA legally.

But conservatives sounding heartless towards people brought here illegally through no willful act of their own is not an argument upon which we can win immigration reforms. That kind of crazy talk only serves to make changing immigration law more difficult to achieve. We’re gonna need democrats for any reform so stay focused on the prize, not pounding on the table.

So you are against this country enforcing its laws?

What other laws are you suggesting Americans break without consequence anyway?

[IsailedawayfromFR]

We're not going to frog march 1.8 million people into boats and send them back to the country of origin.

It is just not going to happen.

What the President has proposed is a path to citizenship over a 12 year period for the children brought to America at a young age, subject to education, work and good moral character requirements.

It is not immediate .. but a chance for citizenship.

In exchange for this the President wants

1. a fully secured border:  the wall, more "heroes like CJ" and an end to catch and release
2. an end to the Visa lottery and a move toward a merit based system
3. an end to extended chain migration; limiting it to spouse and minor children

That the democrats will go to their political graves opposing #1 -3 tells us the profound affect these changes will have on migration to the US.  It also tells us how badly the changes are needed and effective they will be.

Please cite whatever source you have that says this is what is planned.  It is certainly within our rights to do so, however as they have broken the law.

These people came here voluntarily as they had an incentive to.  We need to give them incentive to voluntarily go back.  Your pronouncements are simple fear-mongering.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Please cite whatever source you have that says this is what is planned. ...

Here's my source @IsailedawayfromFR :

! No longer available

[libertybele]

We're not going to frog march 1.8 million people into boats and send them back to the country of origin.

It is just not going to happen.

What the President has proposed is a path to citizenship over a 12 year period for the children brought to America at a young age, subject to education, work and good moral character requirements.

It is not immediate .. but a chance for citizenship.

In exchange for this the President wants

1. a fully secured border:  the wall, more "heroes like CJ" and an end to catch and release
2. an end to the Visa lottery and a move toward a merit based system
3. an end to extended chain migration; limiting it to spouse and minor children

That the democrats will go to their political graves opposing #1 -3 tells us the profound affect these changes will have on migration to the US.  It also tells us how badly the changes are needed and effective they will be.

First of all in reading what you you stated "for the children brought to America at a young age" .. #1  How did they come up with the 1.8 figure?   You mean to tell me that out of the conservative 11,000,000 illegals here that only 1.8 million were brought here as kids?  I find that figure doubtful.  Secondly, the argument has been made not to punish the kids -- ok -- then their parents who are at fault should be punished and deported ... BUT that's not going to happen as the DEMS have and will scream that you can't separate families!  Which bring us to change migration -- in essence if you allow the parents to stay that's allowing chain migration ... so if we have 1.8 million dreamers x 2 parents that figure just rose from 1.8 to 3.6 million ... when does ending chain migration begin -- for those already here?  It's going to be allowed for those who are already here ... because they are supposedly building a wall and not allowing anymore illegals in -- so of course they can agree to ending chain migration at that point.

Amnesty is still amnesty and ending chain migration after the fact is futile.  Yes, we can and have deported large numbers of illegals.  IMHO the ONLY way to resolve this issue is to give them a chance to self-deport with a promise of allowing them to apply for citizenship at a future date and those that don't self deport, if caught will NEVER have a chance for citizenship. 

All this smoke and mirrors of this only granting amnesty in the future to a select 1.8 million is very deceptive.  What about the rest of the 9,200,000 illegals here?  My hunch is that they are going to demand amnesty; if its granted to one sector of the illegal population they should be entitled as well.  That is why no amnesty needs to stay no amnesty and illegal is illegal period.  BUILD A WALL AND DEPORT!

[libertybele]

Sneaky, as to your last point, “these people broke the law.”

Nonsense, their parents broke the law. Holding the children of illegals accountable for the sins of their parents is wrong. It goes against Americans’ sense of fairness.

My parents brought me here when I was five. To want to punish me for the wrongs of my parents is quintessentially un-American.

So did you apply for citizenship?

[TomSea]

Also, let us not forget, it is never just the one citizen, at a minimum,  it is immediate family, so their one vote can now mean 4 votes X 1.8 million.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Here's my source @IsailedawayfromFR :

! No longer available

Then you lack the comprehension to either hear what was being said or reading a transcript.

Nowhere does your source contain what you claimed about a 'frog-march'

Either give another source or admit the lie.