Ted Cruz On Trump’s Amnesty Compromise: FORGET IT!

[INVAR]

Ah, that's how you spin it.  The traditional "you're too stupid to understand what he's doing", and the "somehow this works in 13 dimensional chess".  Got it.

Oh come on now, you have to admit that the synchronized backpedalling contortions on orange unicycles is an amazing spectacle to behold.  Just wait to see what the team does once the music changes and we have 1986 Part Deux, only much, much bigger.

[anubias]

Oh come on now, you have to admit that the synchronized backpedalling contortions on orange unicycles is an amazing spectacle to behold.  Just wait to see what the team does once the music changes and we have 1986 Part Deux, only much, much bigger.

If 1986 Part Deux, only much, much bigger occurs, I will be the first to grab a lighter.  I prefer to wait to see what really happens before pointing fingers and screaming just to hear the sound of my own voice.

[INVAR]

If 1986 Part Deux, only much, much bigger occurs, I will be the first to grab a lighter.  I prefer to wait to see what really happens before pointing fingers and screaming just to hear the sound of my own voice.

Well, if one is studying statements and positions - we have absolutely no idea what will actually happen given the fact Trump is all over the map on his positions regarding it.  I do believe his statement of 'Get me something, anything and I will sign it" is likely the most accurate indicator of what will occur.  Then when you factor in the GOP leadership's position on DACA and amnesty - which coincides with what the Democrats want (just a lesser degree), you can say we should wait to see what happens, but we can all likely guess the outcome.

I'm more amused by watching Trump's fawning supporters who vehemently insisted during the campaign that ending illegal immigration and building the wall was numero dos in importance just below 'Stopping Hillary', now telling us that Amnesty is inevitable, and how Glorious it will be when Trump oversees and manages it.

[DCPatriot]

Ah, that's how you spin it.  The traditional "you're too stupid to understand what he's doing", and the "somehow this works in 13 dimensional chess".  Got it.

Is that what you think you're seeing?  "13 Dimensional chess"?

LOL!   It's not quite THAT complicated for some of us.

[anubias]

Well, if one is studying statements and positions - we have absolutely no idea what will actually happen given the fact Trump is all over the map on his positions regarding it.  I do believe his statement of 'Get me something, anything and I will sign it" is likely the most accurate indicator of what will occur.  Then when you factor in the GOP leadership's position on DACA and amnesty - which coincides with what the Democrats want (just a lesser degree), you can say we should wait to see what happens, but we can all likely guess the outcome.

I'm more amused by watching Trump's fawning supporters who vehemently insisted during the campaign that ending illegal immigration and building the wall was numero dos in importance just below 'Stopping Hillary', now telling us that Amnesty is inevitable, and how Glorious it will be when Trump oversees and manages it.

I assume that no matter how this ends, you and some others here that have rent their garments and set their hair on fire will continue to bitch.

I do not appreciate you lumping all of us that voted for Trump into your “twist” caricature.  I have held out hope from the beginning that Trump is playing Schumer as Trump knows Schumer well.  If it turns out that is not the case, I, and many others here, will be first in line to rail against Trump, but I think you know that.  You simply prefer to belittle us all as a group as it makes you feel superior as is often your need.  Or is it that you probably suspect Trump playing Schumer is what is happening yourself and want to be able to ridicule us all in future regardless of the outcome?

I am losing respect for you with these posts, honestly.

[libertybele]

I assume that no matter how this ends, you and some others here that have rent their garments and set their hair on fire will continue to bitch.

I do not appreciate you lumping all of us that voted for Trump into your “twist” caricature.  I have held out hope from the beginning that Trump is playing Schumer as Trump knows Schumer well.  If it turns out that is not the case, I, and many others here, will be first in line to rail against Trump, but I think you know that.  You simply prefer to belittle us all as a group as it makes you feel superior as is often your need.  Or is it that you probably suspect Trump playing Schumer is what is happening yourself and want to be able to ridicule us all in future regardless of the outcome?

I am losing respect for you with these posts, honestly.

Playing Schumer?  I'm still trying to figure out what people don't understand about Trump granting 1.8 million a path to citizenship isn't comprehended? Plain and simple it's amnesty.  Keep in mind that the figure has grown from granting amnesty to 800,000 to 1.8 million!  The only 'people' that are getting played are Trump supporters who are jumping for joy at this and thinking that Trump must have something up his sleeve and they're waiting in anticipation for his next move which will rattle the leftists!! Meanwhile -- he has asked the SCOTUS to consider ruling on DACA -- the only glimmer of hope is if the SCOTUS decides that DACA was unconstitutional to begin with -- but then Trump's already stated that he's willing to grant amnesty -- the grand bargainer played his supporters BIGLY!

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/24/us/politics/trump-immigration-daca-dreamers-path-to-citizenship.html

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/24/trump-open-to-citizenship-daca-dreamers-367515

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/25/trump-amnesty-cover-18-million-dreamers/

[Sanguine]

Is that what you think you're seeing?  "13 Dimensional chess"?

LOL!   It's not quite THAT complicated for some of us.

So simple you can't even explain it.

[INVAR]

I assume that no matter how this ends, you and some others here that have rent their garments and set their hair on fire will continue to bitch.

Well, cheerleaders for Trump have stated that not only do they not want any support from those of us who did not vote for Trump, one of them on this board actually emphatically stated that any applause, agreement or support from me would harm Trump's 'brand'.

Continuing to 'bitch' is what Trump's most loyal fanatics obviously want if recalcitrants do not pledge 100% fealty, devotion and loyalty to Trump.

So I will keep any positive remarks about anything Trump says or does to myself and simply 'bitch' as I feel moved to do.  For now, all the backpedalling contortions are highly amusing to me.

I do not appreciate you lumping all of us that voted for Trump into your “twist” caricature. 

Do you consider yourself a 'fawning Trump supporter'?  Do you contort yourself into twists of pretzel logic to justify positions wholly contrary to what you campaigned for Trump on?   That is whom the graphic is serving to illustrate.

You simply prefer to belittle us all as a group as it makes you feel superior as is often your need. 

The same can be said of rabid Trump supporters who feel the need to poke everyone else in the eye that isn't 100% devoted to Trump with a wonderful assortment of essays, blog hit pieces, ridicule and Alinsky's most potent weapons when they feel the need to celebrate 'winning'.

Or is it that you probably suspect Trump playing Schumer is what is happening yourself and want to be able to ridicule us all in future regardless of the outcome?

I cannot say or guess what maneuvering Trump is or is not doing.  He is continually all over the map and on every side of every issue.  Whatever he does is somehow tied into whatever he thinks will make him look good.

I said I think the truth of Trump saying he would sign anything is probably the closest to the truth.  The fact a few in Congress have refused to budge on the position they promised their voters - has made sending 'anything' to Trump's desk the miasma of mess it is, which is a good thing.

That does not diminish the fact Trump and his followers campaigned that he would end illegal immigration, build a wall and say NO to amnesty to the illegals that are here.   I am reading a litany of backpedalling contortions from his supporters about why none of those things should now be expected - even though they were promised.  Instead we read that we should accept the inevitable amnesty and lack of a wall because it will benefit the Republican Party and the Democrats as 'more winning'!

I am losing respect for you with these posts, honestly.

Well, I am not expecting to win friends by posting my observations.  We live in a time where no one wants to hear opinions if it conflicts with their views.

[anubias]

Playing Schumer?  I'm still trying to figure out what people don't understand about Trump granting 1.8 million a path to citizenship isn't comprehended? Plain and simple it's amnesty.  Keep in mind that the figure has grown from granting amnesty to 800,000 to 1.8 million!  The only 'people' that are getting played are Trump supporters who are jumping for joy at this and thinking that Trump must have something up his sleeve and they're waiting in anticipation for his next move which will rattle the leftists!! Meanwhile -- he has asked the SCOTUS to consider ruling on DACA -- the only glimmer of hope is if the SCOTUS decides that DACA was unconstitutional to begin with -- but then Trump's already stated that he's willing to grant amnesty -- the grand bargainer played his supporters BIGLY!

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/24/us/politics/trump-immigration-daca-dreamers-path-to-citizenship.html

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/24/trump-open-to-citizenship-daca-dreamers-367515

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/25/trump-amnesty-cover-18-million-dreamers/

You may be right, but I don’t think so.  I think he threw out that great big number to make it appear that he is bending over backwards to work with the cretins knowing full well that Schumer would not agree to it.  If it goes as I think it will, the Dems are going to lose big-time on this.  I think we’ll either get the original 800K, or even better, none at all.  I am well aware that I may be completely wrong on this, and if so, I will gladly eat crow and vilify Trump with the rest of you, but from Trump’s past mechanations, I think he’s playing a political game that might help us in 2018.  I prefer to wait to see how it all plays out before having my hissy fit.

[Chosen Daughter]

Bottom line is 70% of those immigrants here today legally come from chain migration. Given the high ratio of immigrants below the poverty line and on public assistance obviously the nation would benefit greatly by chucking chain migration altogether & going to a merit based system.

What I think is that merit is very good.  If they don't have some kind  of college degree already stay home and get one on your own government.  Mexico has an immigration policy that you have to have so much in the bank to move there.  You also have to show you are capable of a certain income.

What that tells me is they are taking in the best and we are taking in the ones that need food, healthcare, dental, housing and cash assistance.

[libertybele]

You may be right, but I don’t think so.  I think he threw out that great big number to make it appear that he is bending over backwards to work with the cretins knowing full well that Schumer would not agree to it.  If it goes as I think it will, the Dems are going to lose big-time on this.  I think we’ll either get the original 800K, or even better, none at all.  I am well aware that I may be completely wrong on this, and if so, I will gladly eat crow and vilify Trump with the rest of you, but from Trump’s past mechanations, I think he’s playing a political game that might help us in 2018.  I prefer to wait to see how it all plays out before having my hissy fit.

I would agree with you on this except, he's already agreed to giving them citizenship.  Why would the DEMS not jump on this? It gives them the additional voting base that they need to get the majority in both houses and retain the majority. 

Either way you look at this Trump backpedaled on this issue. He specifically said "NO AMNESTY" and is now willing to grant citizenship, so I'm really trying to understand how his supporters are justifying his actions on this.  There is no justification.  His supporters are cheering him on, for what?  What has he gained for this country on this issue?

[INVAR]

What I think is that merit is very good.  If they don't have some kind  of college degree already stay home and get one on your own government.  Mexico has an immigration policy that you have to have so much in the bank to move there.  You also have to show you are capable of a certain income.

What that tells me is they are taking in the best and we are taking in the ones that need food, healthcare, dental, housing and cash assistance.

If Trump had any real balls, he would publicly assert our need to mimic and adopt the exact immigration policies of Mexico and other nations that are importing their dregs of society here for free handouts at our expense.

He can call it The Trump Reciprocal Immigration Policy Act of 2018.

[anubias]

Well, cheerleaders for Trump have stated that not only do they not want any support from those of us who did not vote for Trump, one of them on this board actually emphatically stated that any applause, agreement or support from me would harm Trump's 'brand'.

Continuing to 'bitch' is what Trump's most loyal fanatics obviously want if recalcitrants do not pledge 100% fealty, devotion and loyalty to Trump.

So I will keep any positive remarks about anything Trump says or does to myself and simply 'bitch' as I feel moved to do.  For now, all the backpedalling contortions are highly amusing to me.

Do you consider yourself a 'fawning Trump supporter'?  Do you contort yourself into twists of pretzel logic to justify positions wholly contrary to what you campaigned for Trump on?   That is whom the graphic is serving to illustrate.

The same can be said of rabid Trump supporters who feel the need to poke everyone else in the eye that isn't 100% devoted to Trump with a wonderful assortment of essays, blog hit pieces, ridicule and Alinsky's most potent weapons when they feel the need to celebrate 'winning'.

I cannot say or guess what maneuvering Trump is or is not doing.  He is continually all over the map and on every side of every issue.  Whatever he does is somehow tied into whatever he thinks will make him look good.

I said I think the truth of Trump saying he would sign anything is probably the closest to the truth.  The fact a few in Congress have refused to budge on the position they promised their voters - has made sending 'anything' to Trump's desk the miasma of mess it is, which is a good thing.

That does not diminish the fact Trump and his followers campaigned that he would end illegal immigration, build a wall and say NO to amnesty to the illegals that are here.   I am reading a litany of backpedalling contortions from his supporters about why none of those things should now be expected - even though they were promised.  Instead we read that we should accept the inevitable amnesty and lack of a wall because it will benefit the Republican Party and the Democrats as 'more winning'!

Well, I am not expecting to win friends by posting my observations.  We live in a time where no one wants to hear opinions if it conflicts with their views.

I didn’t read the entire post as it is “TL;DR”, but I did read up to “Do you consider yourself a fawning Trump supporter?”

No, I do not, but have been called one plenty of times on this forum.  I grow increasingly tired of being derided for my vote against HRC.  I am also sick of the silliness from both sides for decisions made two years ago, both of which I understand.  I wish the lot of you would buck up, grow up, and get over it, but i realize that some are too damned full of self-importance to do it.

As for the crap that was said to you, I personally apologize for whoever said it.  I assume it was said in anger as I admit to thinking it myself a time or too lately and apologize for those thoughts.  Some of you act like holding onto your vote/support while waving it in our faces like a lollipop that should get your asses kissed to get it.  I personally don’t give a tinker’s damn how you vote or who you support.  It’s YOUR vote and support, use it as you wish.  I will use mine to do what I think is best overall for the country as I’m sure you will as well.  With just a few exceptions here, I think almost every single one of us wants what is best for this country including you.  Thinking this is why some here aggravate me to the point I’d like to bitch-slap the lot of you on both sides as I think some just wish to be argumentative for argument’s sake.

By all means, carry on.  I’m off to do something constructive as opposed to wasting my day arguing over something that I have no control or actual knowledge as I am not privy to Trump’s thoughts.  I choose to wait to see what happens before bitching and hoping in the meantime that what I think is going to happen does.

[libertybele]

If Trump had any real balls, he would publicly assert our need to mimic and adopt the exact immigration policies of Mexico and other nations that are importing their dregs of society here for free handouts at our expense.

He can call it The Trump Reciprocal Immigration Policy Act of 2018.

I really like your idea ... but I honestly believe at this point in time, it is his intent to grant amnesty.  Perhaps by a long stretch he's thinking that in doing so it may give the GOP a larger voting base because it was the GOP that granted amnesty?  That I'm afraid is going to backfire bigly as the MSM will never, ever focus on the GOP doing anything positive for the poor, discriminated against illegals. 

[DCPatriot]

I would agree with you on this except, he's already agreed to giving them citizenship.  Why would the DEMS not jump on this? It gives them the additional voting base that they need to get the majority in both houses and retain the majority. 

Either way you look at this Trump backpedaled on this issue. He specifically said "NO AMNESTY" and is now willing to grant citizenship, so I'm really trying to understand how his supporters are justifying his actions on this.  There is no justification.  His supporters are cheering him on, for what?  What has he gained for this country on this issue?

He's agreed to give them A PATH to citizenship.   And that makes sense. 

Anything less would be a mortal blow to the GOP brand which, like it or not, is being salvaged by an 'Outsider'.

What's being gained?   An opportunity to disprove the visage that the GOP doesn't care about illegals and Dreamers.

And of course a chance to end Chain-Migration and overhaul our immigration system.

[edpc]

He's agreed to give them A PATH to citizenship.

I’m not sure how to break this to you, but that path doesn’t have a southbound heading, leading to a one-way turnstile at the wall.

[INVAR]

I didn’t read the entire post as it is “TL;DR”, but I did read up to “Do you consider yourself a fawning Trump supporter?”

No, I do not, but have been called one plenty of times on this forum.  I grow increasingly tired of being derided for my vote against HRC. 

You had every right to vote as you wanted, for the reasons that motivated you.  I didn't have issues with anyone who voted for Trump because they could not stand the idea of The Pantsuit as Prez.   I never derided anyone for choosing Trump as a way to stop Hillary.  My issues were always with those who were emphatic that unless we vote for Trump - we are casting a vote for Hillary; and that only Trump can 'save us'.  I am a vehement opponent of getting involved with mass movements and jumping on bandwagon trains.

I am also sick of the silliness from both sides for decisions made two years ago, both of which I understand.  I wish the lot of you would buck up, grow up, and get over it, but i realize that some are too damned full of self-importance to do it.

Consequences of a nasty primary and general election cycle that essentially shit all over anyone who was motivated by principles as opposed to pragmatism.  There was a massive paradigm shift away from foundational principles and as such, a lot of the vehement arguments are over the loss of those versus those arguing that they are dead weight and needed to be jettisoned.

As for the crap that was said to you, I personally apologize for whoever said it. 

I appreciate that, but it is not your place to personally apologize for things you did not say, or for what others have said and done.  I am not personally bothered by what they say - other than to use those opportunities to opine and discuss the devolution of what was once assumed to be Conservatism, and the portents of what becomes of it now.

Some of you act like holding onto your vote/support while waving it in our faces like a lollipop that should get your asses kissed to get it.

Oh I don't know, judging the fruits of the GOP over the last 8 years is not exactly a lesson in why voting for Republicans benefits Conservatism and the Constitution.  But, we live in a time where simply stating what our culture once considered to be a moral position will earn you the charge of being 'morally superior' which today is regarded as a vile evil.  By self-identifying Conservatives no less.  Then again, some of those same folks declared us to be traitors and enemies of the country for withholding our vote for Trump. 

So much for a common bridge of liberty upon which we stand.

I personally don’t give a tinker’s damn how you vote or who you support.  It’s YOUR vote and support, use it as you wish.  I will use mine to do what I think is best overall for the country as I’m sure you will as well. With just a few exceptions here, I think almost every single one of us wants what is best for this country including you. 

If only the rest of the rabid Trump faithful had that same mindset you just described of yourself.  Nearly all the nastiness of the last two years would not have existed among Conservatives.

I choose to wait to see what happens before bitching and hoping in the meantime that what I think is going to happen does.

Good for you. 

However, some of us are interested in reminding Trump supporters of their promise that they would hold his feet to the fire on these key issues if he won.

Which is why reading the backpedalling contortions of justification for NOT holding his feet to the fire and supporting what he was supposedly going to stop - is just another discussion about what happens when jumping onto a boat with a giant sail in wild seas without a rudder.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I'd love to know exactly what kind of bill Ted would support.  We'll find out soon, that's for sure.

Why does he need a bill?

There are existing laws already that just need to be enforced.

[Bigun]

Why does he need a bill?

There are existing laws already that just need to be enforced.

 

[IsailedawayfromFR]

@jpsb

Gosh you're funny.

What's funny about they guy being a babbling idiot?

[Right_in_Virginia]

<snip>

I’m off to do something constructive as opposed to wasting my day arguing over something that I have no control or actual knowledge as I am not privy to Trump’s thoughts.  I choose to wait to see what happens before bitching and hoping in the meantime that what I think is going to happen does.

 

[Right_in_Virginia]

Why does he need a bill?

There are existing laws already that just need to be enforced.

Existing immigration law is not based on merit, permits extended chain migration, does not fund a physical wall or outlaw a Visa lottery....  we need a revised law to end these travesties. Getting all of this, IMO, is the reason for the negotiations (battle) about to begin over DACA.

[Chosen Daughter]

If Trump had any real balls, he would publicly assert our need to mimic and adopt the exact immigration policies of Mexico and other nations that are importing their dregs of society here for free handouts at our expense.

He can call it The Trump Reciprocal Immigration Policy Act of 2018.

Mexican immigration

https://www.mexperience.com/financial-criteria-for-residency-in-mexico/

[edpc]

Existing immigration law is not based on merit, permits extended chain migration, does not fund a physical wall or outlaw a Visa lottery....  we need a revised law to end these travesties. Getting all of this, IMO, is the reason for the negotiations (battle) about to begin over DACA.

The existing immigration laws are enforced by the executive branch.  None of the lotteries or chain applications equal automatic entry.  If that WH graphic previously posted is accurate, there’s a DC population amount of immigrants in the US over the past year, only because they allowed it.  This whole fan dance about reform via leverage with DACA is a joke.  They never needed it to get anything done, if the were actually serious.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Existing immigration law is not based on merit, permits extended chain migration, does not fund a physical wall or outlaw a Visa lottery....  we need a revised law to end these travesties. Getting all of this, IMO, is the reason for the negotiations (battle) about to begin over DACA.

The overwhelming problem with immigration is not what you mention, but that it is NOT ENFORCED.

One MUST enforce immigration law prior to doing any more new immigration laws.

We learned that in 1986.