Study: Guys With More Testosterone Don’t Like "Sophisticated" Music

[rangerrebew]

Study: Guys With More Testosterone Don’t Like "Sophisticated" Music

    January 19, 2018

by Robby Berman
 

A new study just published in the journal Personality and Individual Differences from Hirokazu Doi and Kazuyuki Shinohara of Nagasaki University asserts that men with more testosterone in their saliva are less likely to enjoy sophisticated music: jazz, classical and avant-garde.

http://bigthink.com/robby-berman/study-links-more-testosterone-with-dumber-music-in-males

[endicom]

Banjo Boy's poster looks like some of the avatars here.

[sneakypete]

Study: Guys With More Testosterone Don’t Like "Sophisticated" Music

    January 19, 2018

by Robby Berman
 

A new study just published in the journal Personality and Individual Differences from Hirokazu Doi and Kazuyuki Shinohara of Nagasaki University asserts that men with more testosterone in their saliva are less likely to enjoy sophisticated music: jazz, classical and avant-garde.

http://bigthink.com/robby-berman/study-links-more-testosterone-with-dumber-music-in-males

@rangerrebew

This is supposed to be news? I've never heard men who like classical and avante-garde music called anything BUT light in the loafers. Except for jazz fans. They are junkies that don't know they are just listening to random sounds.

[endicom]

@rangerrebew

This is supposed to be news? I've never heard men who like classical and avante-garde music called anything BUT light in the loafers. Except for jazz fans. They are junkies that don't know they are just listening to random sounds.

How can you say that?

[sneakypete]

How can you say that?

@endicom

Who's that,Boy George's father?

Or is it his mother?

[Fishrrman]

Folks may not recognize Billy in the pic above, but they'll recognize this one:


By the way, Billy never learned to actually -play- a banjo.
In the pic from the movie, that's -somebody else's- left hand fretting the neck!

[sneakypete]

Folks may not recognize Billy in the pic above, but they'll recognize this one:


By the way, Billy never learned to actually -play- a banjo.
In the pic from the movie, that's -somebody else's- left hand fretting the neck!

@Fishrrman

I recognize the boy from the movie,but have no idea who he is. Billy who?

[Fishrrman]

"I recognize the boy from the movie,but have no idea who he is. Billy who?"

Billy Redden:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Redden

[Free Vulcan]

! No longer available

Darn straight.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

@rangerrebew

This is supposed to be news? I've never heard men who like classical and avante-garde music called anything BUT light in the loafers. Except for jazz fans. They are junkies that don't know they are just listening to random sounds.

Got mixed feelings 'bout 'Jazz', or as Frank Zappa called it 'The Music of The Unemployed'.

Salvadore Dali:

"95% of ALL art is crap."

Don't have Any trouble with that call.

Back in the days of Free Jazz, yeah, there was an awful lot of unorganized noise making on stage.

Trumpet player Mark Isham - who went on to score over 100 movies - joked that when he was playing Free Jazz they were telling the crowd:

"Tonight we will be playing the Color Green."

With Traditional Jazz - Standards - the strictures of the genre impose a Draconian clampdown on what you can actually play when improvising that is so tight, it Squeaks when it struts. You're expected to play Chord Tones - 1, 3, 5, 7, etc - on the strong beats - 1, 2, 3, 4, - and chromatic/passing tones on the 'ands' etc - between them. Sends me diving for the channel selector whenever it comes on the radio. Most of its so sugary sweet it makes my teeth hurt to listen to it.

Then the top players turn tunes into an Olympic Dash, trying to show off that they can 'Make The Changes' - improvise Correctly over constantly changing chords - without playing any non-allowed honkers or flat out getting lost in that jungle of complex, and added, substituted chords.

"Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny."
Zappa again.

Yes, 95% of it is crap, but so is 95% of Rock, Rythm and Blues, Soul, and Straight Up Blues.

Don't Even get me started on Rap or Country.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

How can you say that?

I'm with @endicom on Mozart, up to a point. He was one of those very, very rare individuals born with an incredible mind and ability.

And I can't really fault him for turning himself into the Rock Star of his age.

He could have done so much more with what he had but he turned it to writing frilly puff pieces to impress and bed the Groupies at Court.

Now This Titan, on the other hand,



! No longer available

[Frank Cannon]

[aligncare]

Sorry, but I call BS.

Exposure to a genre during formative years makes all the difference in the world. My music library has it all, from classical and country to R&B and beyond.

De gustibus non disputandum est
In matters of taste, there can be no disputes

...or, as Duke Ellington put it: “If it sounds good, it IS good.”

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

The man who sat down with pen and paper, worked out the math, and invented it all.

Toccata and Fugue in D Minor.

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[To-Whose-Benefit?]

I just read the opening of this study.

Both the researchers are Shrinks. Oh Dear Lord, here we go again.

"The snippets were selected by researchers to represent the spectrum of music, based on five dimensions — Mellow, Contemporary/Urban, Sophisticated, Intense, and Unpretentious — identified by neuroscientist Daniel Levitin in a 2011 study."

What the hell does any of that have to do with music? It's Gibberish.

Then to further demonstrate that he's a shiftless wanna be, the author mangles and wrongly sources one of the most easily verifiable quotes by musicians to Martin Mull and shrugs it off with a probably.

It was Monk, not Mull, you lazy slob.

https://www.jazzonline.gr/en/jazznews/great-quotes/item/756-great-quotes-%E2%80%94-thelonious-monk.html

[sneakypete]

"I recognize the boy from the movie,but have no idea who he is. Billy who?"

Billy Redden:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Redden

@Fishrrman

Thanks. I didn't know any of that,and never even heard of the other movies. Guess I just don't get out much anymore.

[sneakypete]

Yes, 95% of it is crap, but so is 95% of Rock, Rythm and Blues, Soul, and Straight Up Blues.

Don't Even get me started on Rap or Country.

@To-Whose-Benefit?

Say WHAT????? With the exception of punk rock,that is. It's so bad it makes cats shrieking sound like Alison Krauss by comparison.

[endicom]

@Fishrrman

Thanks. I didn't know any of that,and never even heard of the other movies. Guess I just don't get out much anymore.

Deliverance came out in 1972. I liked it on the the big screen in the theater because there was a sense of tension throughout the movie. I later saw it on TV and thought that tension was missing.

[sneakypete]

Deliverance came out in 1972. I liked it on the the big screen in the theater because there was a sense of tension throughout the movie. I later saw it on TV and thought that tension was missing.

@endicom

The only movie I have seen in theaters in years is the 3D sci-fi movie with the 7 foot tall blue women with tails. EXCELLENT move and I plan on seeing the sequel if I live long enough,but next time I will NOT get there late and have to sit up front. GD 7 foot tall blue monsters kept walking past me to be on the screen,and scaring the hell out of me.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

@To-Whose-Benefit?

Say WHAT????? With the exception of punk rock,that is. It's so bad it makes cats shrieking sound like Alison Krauss by comparison.

I don't even consider punk to be music. It's Theater of the Absurd.

[endicom]

@endicom

The only movie I have seen in theaters in years is the 3D sci-fi movie with the 7 foot tall blue women with tails. EXCELLENT move and I plan on seeing the sequel if I live long enough,but next time I will NOT get there late and have to sit up front. GD 7 foot tall blue monsters kept walking past me to be on the screen,and scaring the hell out of me.

Fort Ticonderoga, I think. Saw it as a kid and was most impressed by the flaming arrows coming at me, the horses riding over me and such.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

@sneakypete

I'm 65. Started playing at age 11.

20, 40, 70 and more years ago, when you could still sorta survive by just performing on 1 instrument, Country was the genre of choice for Drunks, especially Drummers, BEFORE Rock with all the drug use. That's because if you were anywhere Near competent at entry level musicianship, so long as you didn't get So drunk you couldn't stand up, or you fell clean off the drum stool, you could keep working.

Music is comprised of just 4 elements. Rythm, Timbre (the pitch and harmonic content of the note itself) Melody and Harmony. Ain't no such mythical thing as 'Soulfulness'. That and a host of other made up stuff comes from musical illiterates and hucksters who wrote for garbage like Rolling Stone magazine.

And every one of those 4 elements can be broken down into numbers, flat and simple. If you can do the harmonic (numerical) analysis of anything Bach wrote, you'll find almost everything Since Bach contains Harmonic progressions that Bach Discovered and set down, (created if you will) through the Numbers.

Western music wouldn't exist today if Bach hadn't Laid It Out for everyone who followed him.

So no, I don't consider a nasal twang over 3 to 5 chords and a Boom, chick, Boom, chick, Boom, chick Rythm track to be Any less annoying than Rap. I've performed that stuff for money. And that's All Genres, not just Country.

I'd rather wash cars.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete


Western music wouldn't exist today if Bach hadn't Laid It Out for everyone who followed him.

@To-Whose-Benefit?

If Henry Ford hadn't invented the Model T and the production line,everyone wouldn't be owning and driving cars today.

NOT knocking Bach,Beethoven,etc,etc,etc,just saying because it started there,it doesn't end there. They don't have shit over Pink Floyd,Steve Winwood,Jeff Beck,or even Jerry Lee Lewis Buddy Holley,and Chuck Berry,etc,etc,etc when it comes to creativity. In fact,they weren't even AS creative because they didn't  "paint mind pictures with lyrics".

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

If you've watched TV from the Desilu age, you've heard Howard Roberts on guitar countless times, probably without ever knowing his name.

HR was very big in the Studio scene. He and 2 other guys put up GIT in hollywood, a guitar player trade school. 1 year of intensive training. No goofing off. If you wanted to get from garage band jammer to pro, GIT was the place to go.

Folks who prefer one genre over another do so because they've been Exposed to that genre for a very long time. If you grew up listening to a steady diet of Country or R&B, you're probably going to continue listening to it.

Steve Howe, the guitar player from Yes, said when he heard the Right kind of music as a little kid it made him want to get up, run around the house and break things. It gripped him That tight.

With me, I dutifully learned and practiced my guitar lessons from a few older Trad Jazz players. It's what we had as kids. And after grinding my way through them set to 'Discovering' more primitive rythms and melodies on my own, after my lessons were done for the day.

Grew up listening to the radio, mostly R&B in the mid 60s. Didn't cotten to it. Nor was I impressed with Dad's fascination with Chet Atkins. But when Rock Music started coming out through those same speakers, THAT was when my Hair stood up and set itself on fire.

By the time the word Metal came into in Vogue, well, I'm still amazed anyone fell for it. It's Rock, period. Metal is hyperbole, sales hype.

But like I said, it's what we get used to listening to that forms our musical preferences.

And an Awful lot of that is determined not by musicians but by A&R execs at record companies. They have never been about selling music. They sell Licensing to consumers to listen to music. They've sold Vinyl, Computer downloads, and youttube pay per click royalties today, but Music has always been at the far distant End of a very long list of their priorities. For every band/singer that got signed there were 99 more just like them, waiting out in the alley.

Our musical tastes have been crafted and handed down to us by Record Companies. We've had almost no say in the matter.

Back to Howard Roberts, studio guitarist back in the day. HR was upset with the inflexibility of the Industry, and its refusal to try Anything outside of 'It's got to sound Just Like this Last Band that went Gold 6 weeks ago, but All New and Completely Different.'

And as HR put it:

"People don't know what they like. They like what they know."

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

@To-Whose-Benefit?

If Henry Ford hadn't invented the Model T and the production line,everyone wouldn't be owning and driving cars today.

NOT knocking Bach,Beethoven,etc,etc,etc,just saying because it started there,it doesn't end there. They don't have shit over Pink Floyd,Steve Winwood,Jeff Beck,or even Jerry Lee Lewis Buddy Holley,and Chuck Berry,etc,etc,etc when it comes to creativity. In fact,they weren't even AS creative because they didn't  "paint mind pictures with lyrics".

Yes, those bands had a huge influence on pop music, it's still being felt.

However: Lyrics are not music. They're poetry. The Melody those Lyrics are set to is music.

When you chart out the Chord Changes of those songs: IE: I, IV, V, IV, etc. Bach covered all of that and a lot more centuries ago.

Not to the same rythms, or instrumentation, but the harmonic arrangement, the chord changes themselves, was already there long ago.

Great Lyricists are Not a dime a Dozen, and those bands you cited were very creative at writing those Lyrics.

Look at the Lyrics on Top of the Music to Somewhere Over The Rainbow.

That tune's lasted so well over time because it's got it All.

Anyone who can listen to any respectable rendition of that tune and not be moved by it doesn't Have a soul.

[Suppressed]

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/11/08/writing-about-music/

[WingNot]

That sumbitch couldn't hold a skinflute to The musical stylings of Boxcar Willie.

[sneakypete]

Yes, those bands had a huge influence on pop music, it's still being felt.

However: Lyrics are not music. They're poetry. The Melody those Lyrics are set to is music.

@To-Whose-Benefit? 

You are splitting hairs. You mention Somewhere Over the Rainbow further down,but give a listen to this rendition of the song by Israel "IZ" Kamakawiwoʻole,that is pared down to just his voice and his ukulele,and try to tell me that voice isn't creating musical magic.


Israel "IZ" Kamakawiwoʻole

When you chart out the Chord Changes of those songs: IE: I, IV, V, IV, etc. Bach covered all of that and a lot more centuries ago.

So what? He didn't invent them. They have existed since the dawn of time. He just ARRANGED them in a way that was better than most others.

 
 

Look at the Lyrics on Top of the Music to Somewhere Over The Rainbow.

That tune's lasted so well over time because it's got it All.

Anyone who can listen to any respectable rendition of that tune and not be moved by it doesn't have a soul.
[/size][/b]

No question about that. Regardless of what type of music is your favorite,you are going to like that.

Same with the music written by George and Ira Gershwin. Find me someone that doesn't like their music,and you have found someone that is tone deaf as well as soulless. People talk about Memphis as the home of American music,but it really began on a street in NYC nicknamed "Tin Pan Alley". Amazing isn't a strong enough word to describe the volume,quality,and even the originality of the music written and produced in one small area of one city.

Yeah,the Blue Grass,which came from the Protestant Churches as hymns,was filtering out of the southern mountain areas,and turning into the country,then blues,and then later on rock and roll,but it was Tin Pan Alley in NYC that had the "music machine" in place to stamp out the records to sell all over the country,and to print the sheet music so local musicians all over could learn to play it.

 

[sneakypete]

@To-Whose-Benefit?

BTW,give a listen to this violin tune and tell me what you think Beethoven,Brahms,etc,etc,etc would think of this.

I freely admit to being shocked,and being more impressed and liking it better every single time I play it. I can just "get lost" in it.

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[To-Whose-Benefit?]

@sneakypete

"You are splitting hairs. You mention Somewhere Over the Rainbow further down,but give a listen to this rendition of the song by Israel "IZ" Kamakawiwoʻole,that is pared down to just his voice and his ukulele,and try to tell me that voice isn't creating musical magic."

Sorry friend. It's only what any music teacher will tell you.

I'm not arguing that this Big guy isn't a great singer. He's terrific.

Lyrics are words, not melody. Look up the sheet music online. The Words and the Music they ride on are on separate spaces, one beneath the other. Music is the Pitches and Duration in traditional notation. The words don't need a musical staff to ride on. They can be printed anywhere and understood Perfectly without one.

You could write different words to the song and the Melody would give them away.

"So what? He didn't invent them. They have existed since the dawn of time. He just ARRANGED them in a way that was better than most others."

Not exactly, and not in Every case, but Yes, Bach Did Invent modern Western Harmony. The interval of the Flat Five (half step below the normal fifth) was in Bach's day On the Church's official Hit List as the Devil's Interval. Also called a tritone. 2 consecutive minor 3rds stacked on top of each other. Bach not only beat the Church at their own game but got them to PAY Him to figure out how to use it, to glorify God.

There's considerably more to it than just dropping a deck of 52 Chords on the table a reshuffling them.

Modulation (key change) in a pop band rarely goes beyond just sliding the whole she-bang up or down a couple of notes. Just tell your mates "OK, At the 3rd verse we modulate Up a whole step" usually means just have the guitar and bass players physically move Everything Up or Down by so many frets on their instrument, and repeat it verbatim.

In classical composition it involves at least 8 common practice period rules known as SATB (Soprano, Alto, Tenor, Bass) 4 part vocal writing. To shift into a different Key you usually select a Dominant or Secondary Dominant Chord that shares a chord tone with another chord in the new key you're modulating to.

It's more than just adjusting a necktie, considerably more.

[sneakypete]

@To-Whose-Benefit?

I'm not arguing that this Big guy isn't a great singer. He's terrific.

Lyrics are words, not melody.

They are/can be melody when sang. Taking your definition,there is no such thing as music,it's just notes and scales printed on a sheet of paper.

Having said that,I think we are doing a lot of "talking past" one another on this and if you set aside individual definitions,we agree on more than is apparent from reading our messages.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

@To-Whose-Benefit?

BTW,give a listen to this violin tune and tell me what you think Beethoven,Brahms,etc,etc,etc would think of this.

I freely admit to being shocked,and being more impressed and liking it better every single time I play it. I can just "get lost" in it.

! No longer available

Thanks. I'm familiar with it.

As for what Bach and Beethoven would think of it, they've already weighed in.

! No longer available

That, is a piece I was at one time Intimately familiar with, having worked it up on Classical Guitar. Girl Friend was not amused. Everytime she walked through the room while I was playing it she asked "Who Died." Which, if I'd been older and wiser would have told me, along with her collection of whiny, nasally 3 chord Country music about broken hearts, pickup trucks, and romance revenges, that it was us who'd died, as a thing.

And I can tell you from personal experience, it's harder than it looks.


! No longer available

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

6 hrs a day, 7 days a week for 10 years on a Classical Guitar on top of a bunch of Suck, 40 hr Day jobs and I had to face the fact that the political connections needed to become a concert performer were still beyond reach, Finally sent me back to my Les Paul. But it wasn't all for naught.



https://www.amazon.com/Sonatas-Partitas-Schirmers-Library-Classics/dp/0793554624/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_img_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=7DP6YSAWX6SYBTJD671A

Hit these things with a vengeance, with my Les Paul, flat pick, and an amp set to Meltdown.

Ain't no cheating or chiseling around the edges with these.

They WILL make an Honest man of you, if they don't kill you in the process.

One of the best investments I ever made.

 

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

@sneakypete

"Having said that,I think we are doing a lot of "talking past" one another on this and if you set aside individual definitions,we agree on more than is apparent from reading our messages."

Bingo!

We do agree, on a lot.

Pianist Bill Evans said he viewed Jazz Improvisation as 'Holographic' (if I remember the exact word he used).

Hold up the whole egg, the globe as it were, and turn it 360 degrees in all directions, for as many different perspectives as you can get.

I think you and I are just looking through that globe from different angles/perspectives, so we're Seeing the same thing, just from slightly different angles.