The Movie That Made Moral Idiocy Chic

[corbe]

The Movie That Made Moral Idiocy Chic

How “Bonnie and Clyde” represents a milestone in the transformation of American culture.

January 17, 2018
 
Bruce Thornton
 

Fifty years ago, the movie that changed the movies premiered. Anybody old enough to remember films before “Bonnie and Clyde” can testify to the jolting power of Arthur Penn’s kinetic blend of bluegrass slapstick, Depression-era nostalgia, and gruesome, stylized violence. But something else was revealed then, something that I, just 14 at the time, was too callow and ignorant to notice behind the movie’s aesthetic sheen—the moral idiocy that has since come to define so much of contemporary American popular culture.

“Bonnie and Clyde” staked a claim to a moral seriousness that supposedly validated the stylistic innovations and elevated the film beyond mere flashy entertainment. Clyde Barrow and Bonnie Parker, played with fashion-magazine glamour by Warren Beatty and Faye Dunaway, are “just folks,” as Dunaway says in the movie, salt-of-the-earth Americans driven to crime by the machinations of the evil banks they rob for some justified payback, Texan Robin Hoods admired by the common-man victims of American capitalism. Yet “the Man,” embodied in the sadistic Texas Ranger Frank Hamer, wouldn’t let them be, hunting them down and slaughtering them in the film’s famous bloody climax, just after Bonnie and Clyde had finally found the soft-focus sexual fulfillment long a cliché of Hollywood romantic sentiment.

“Social Bandits” on Screen

<..snip..>

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/269018/movie-made-moral-idiocy-chic-bruce-thornton

[goatprairie]

There were a number of movies that came out during that time that tried to reverse what they thought was the prevailing pro American ethos in the movie industry.
The real Bonnie and Clyde while not exactly folk heroes were probably not totally evil either.  Somewhere in the middle. Maybe a couple of not too bright young people who went down the wrong path and paid for it with a very bad end.
"Little Big Man" was another one. The Indians were totally good, the white soldiers were totally evil. Custer was depicted as a grinning ninny/idiot.
No gray areas there. That's what happens when leftists get control of the movie industry. The facts were sometimes gov. soldiers did bad things, but the Indians certainly did their share as well.
I didn't bother to see "Dances With Wolves" not wanting to see another "whitewash" of history.
 There were evil people on both sides.

[WingNot]

B & C was a badly acted pos movie only gay movie critics and Hollywierd elites could love.  In the big picture it couldn't carry Cool Hand Luke's jock strap. 

[Frank Cannon]

B & C was a badly acted pos movie only gay movie critics and Hollywierd elites could love.  In the big picture it couldn't carry Cool Hand Luke's jock strap.

I agree. You never see this on anyone's top 10 list of anything movie related. It was a bunch of schlock in Technicolor. All the actors in it made better films after this that they are remembered for. The French Connection, Reds, Young Frankenstein, Chinatown.

Whoever the hell Bruce Thornton is, he is first and foremost a jackass.

[Cripplecreek]

There were a number of movies that came out during that time that tried to reverse what they thought was the prevailing pro American ethos in the movie industry.
The real Bonnie and Clyde while not exactly folk heroes were probably not totally evil either.  Somewhere in the middle. Maybe a couple of not too bright young people who went down the wrong path and paid for it with a very bad end.
"Little Big Man" was another one. The Indians were totally good, the white soldiers were totally evil. Custer was depicted as a grinning ninny/idiot.
No gray areas there. That's what happens when leftists get control of the movie industry. The facts were sometimes gov. soldiers did bad things, but the Indians certainly did their share as well.
I didn't bother to see "Dances With Wolves" not wanting to see another "whitewash" of history.
 There were evil people on both sides.

Unfortunately the destruction of Custer began immediately. The army deferred to the widow about what info was released in those days and the army used it as an opportunity to absolve themselves of blame. After all, the army made the decision to send the 7th out without repeating arms against an enemy who had them. Custer's mistake was in leaving Gatling guns behind (understandable for a man leading cavalry which is supposed to be light and fast) His tactics were textbook but the Indians behaved differently than they always had before.

[andy58-in-nh]

B & C was a badly acted pos movie only gay movie critics and Hollywierd elites could love.  In the big picture it couldn't carry Cool Hand Luke's jock strap.

"What we have here is a failure to communicate....."  Great film.

[musiclady]

I hated Bonnie and Clyde.   Never understood why anyone liked it.   

[goatprairie]

Unfortunately the destruction of Custer began immediately. The army deferred to the widow about what info was released in those days and the army used it as an opportunity to absolve themselves of blame. After all, the army made the decision to send the 7th out without repeating arms against an enemy who had them. Custer's mistake was in leaving Gatling guns behind (understandable for a man leading cavalry which is supposed to be light and fast) His tactics were textbook but the Indians behaved differently than they always had before.

To be sure, Custer was a rash officer who thought he couldn't be killed. However, no matter how rash he was, he was a very brave soldier and proved it in the Civil War.  But Arthur Penn decided to make him a burlesque figure instead of the somewhat foolhardy, brave soldier he actually was
You just cannot count on leftists to depict history as it was.

[goatprairie]

I hated Bonnie and Clyde.   Never understood why anyone liked it.   

I liked it at the time, but it doesn't stand up well through the years. However, it was Gene Hackman's breakthrough movie, so I guess it was good for something.

[WingNot]

I liked it at the time, but it doesn't stand up well through the years. However, it was Gene Hackman's breakthrough movie, so I guess it was good for something.

Estelle Parsons won an Oscar Best Actress in a Supporting Role.  The academy had to throw a bone to someone.  Better her than Shirley's little brother or Faye.

[musiclady]

I liked it at the time, but it doesn't stand up well through the years. However, it was Gene Hackman's breakthrough movie, so I guess it was good for something.

I forgot about that.

Yes, I guess it WAS good for something.  He's done pretty well for himself.  ^-^

[sneakypete]

The Movie That Made Moral Idiocy Chic

How “Bonnie and Clyde” represents a milestone in the transformation of American culture.

January 17, 2018
 
Bruce Thornton
 

Fifty years ago, the movie that changed the movies premiered. Anybody old enough to remember films before “Bonnie and Clyde” can testify to the jolting power of Arthur Penn’s kinetic blend of bluegrass slapstick, Depression-era nostalgia, and gruesome, stylized violence. But something else was revealed then, something that I, just 14 at the time, was too callow and ignorant to notice behind the movie’s aesthetic sheen—the moral idiocy that has since come to define so much of contemporary American popular culture.

“Bonnie and Clyde” staked a claim to a moral seriousness that supposedly validated the stylistic innovations and elevated the film beyond mere flashy entertainment. Clyde Barrow and Bonnie Parker, played with fashion-magazine glamour by Warren Beatty and Faye Dunaway, are “just folks,” as Dunaway says in the movie, salt-of-the-earth Americans driven to crime by the machinations of the evil banks they rob for some justified payback, Texan Robin Hoods admired by the common-man victims of American capitalism. Yet “the Man,” embodied in the sadistic Texas Ranger Frank Hamer, wouldn’t let them be, hunting them down and slaughtering them in the film’s famous bloody climax, just after Bonnie and Clyde had finally found the soft-focus sexual fulfillment long a cliché of Hollywood romantic sentiment.

“Social Bandits” on Screen

<..snip..>

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/269018/movie-made-moral-idiocy-chic-bruce-thornton

The article couldn't be more wrong. The Depression was engineered so the uber wealthy could legally steal all the property of the poor,the middle class,and the "merely" wealthy.

Working class people saw ALL their banked money disappear as the banks closed,and their money disappeared with the bank managers.

AND....,let's not forget that the Feebs flat-out murdered Bonny and Clyde from ambush.

[Cripplecreek]

To be sure, Custer was a rash officer who thought he couldn't be killed. However, no matter how rash he was, he was a very brave soldier and proved it in the Civil War.  But Arthur Penn decided to make him a burlesque figure instead of the somewhat foolhardy, brave soldier he actually was
You just cannot count on leftists to depict history as it was.

The actual history is far more interesting than the popular version. The popular version has him foolishly attacking a massive village when in reality he skirted around the village to round up the women and children as they were led away by old men as was a common tactic. Custer was really playing it by the book because he was on thin ice with the army already.

[Frank Cannon]

A reissue of Gone with the Wind grossed more than Bonnie and Clyde in 1967...

https://www.the-numbers.com/market/1967/top-grossing-movies

[goatprairie]

The actual history is far more interesting than the popular version. The popular version has him foolishly attacking a massive village when in reality he skirted around the village to round up the women and children as they were led away by old men as was a common tactic. Custer was really playing it by the book because he was on thin ice with the army already.

Custer was Sheridan's favorite subordinate officer because during the Civil War Custer was successful in whatever Sheridan asked him to do. Custer was as brave as they came and not a little bold.  Many soldiers, including Custer himself, thought he lived a charmed life as he avoided serious injuries in a number of engagements.
His good fortune continued during the Indian wars...until, of course, Little Big Horn, where he divided his troops.  Too few soldiers against too many Indians. Reno was lucky to escape with most of his soldiers.
i've read several books about Custer and "Son Of The Morning Star" by Evan S. Connell was the most interesting.

[TomSea]

I've read that "Easy Rider" was a bit of a "prototype' movie for the '70s,  "B & C" seems a bit like that too. These are counter-culture movies. A new outlook, "MASH" and probably just a slew of movies followed.

[goatprairie]

I've read that "Easy Rider" was a bit of a "prototype' movie for the '70s,  "B & C" seems a bit like that too. These are counter-culture movies. A new outlook, "MASH" and probably just a slew of movies followed.

Easy Rider was another flick that portrayed counter cultures types as heroes.
ER was a flick about two drug dealers. Even Truman Capote railed on Johnny Carson's show about the idiocy of depicting two drug dealers as heroes.
And southerners of course, except for Jack Nicholson, (a Fidel Castro admirer) were portrayed as stereotypical evil rednecks who'd shoot you because you gave them the finger.
The only thing about ER worth watching now is the western scenery.

[sneakypete]

Easy Rider was another flick that portrayed counter cultures types as heroes.

@goatprairie

I remember seeing it while it was still new,in an actual movie theater in Fayetteville. I was already "chopping" and riding Harley's,and had some scooter trash contacts despite still being in the army.

I never saw them as anything other than pathetic losers. The one actor,who played Fonda's running mate was pretty funny,but I thought both Fonda and Nichelson were cartoonish.

[Smokin Joe]

@goatprairie

I remember seeing it while it was still new,in an actual movie theater in Fayetteville. I was already "chopping" and riding Harley's,and had some scooter trash contacts despite still being in the army.

I never saw them as anything other than pathetic losers. The one actor,who played Fonda's running mate was pretty funny,but I thought both Fonda and Nichelson were cartoonish.

Yep. Mask portrayed bikers far better.

[sneakypete]

Yep. Mask portrayed bikers far better.

@Smokin Joe

The ones I knew,anyhow.

[Smokin Joe]

@Smokin Joe

The ones I knew,anyhow.

Yep, the folks I would ride with, back in the day.

[goatprairie]

@goatprairie

I remember seeing it while it was still new,in an actual movie theater in Fayetteville. I was already "chopping" and riding Harley's,and had some scooter trash contacts despite still being in the army.

I never saw them as anything other than pathetic losers. The one actor,who played Fonda's running mate was pretty funny,but I thought both Fonda and Nichelson were cartoonish.

"Fonda's running mate "

Dennis Hopper. Hopper actually turned more conservative as he got older and started voting for
Republicans. 
Fonda never did grow up. He was taking shots at Trump's children before he died.

[corbe]

   I found the Soundtrack of ER to be the film's only redeeming quality. 

   Watching Gaslight on TCM right now.

[sneakypete]

"Fonda's running mate "

Dennis Hopper. Hopper actually turned more conservative as he got older and started voting for
Republicans. 
Fonda never did grow up. He was taking shots at Trump's children before he died.

@goatprairie

Yeah,Hopper! AFAIWC,he was THE star of the movie. Rumors had it that Fonda was so afraid of Hopper he hired a bodyguard to always be near him. Seems like Fonda wasn't used to people telling him to go bleep himself or to STFU.

[Smokin Joe]

@goatprairie

Yeah,Hopper! AFAIWC,he was THE star of the movie. Rumors had it that Fonda was so afraid of Hopper he hired a bodyguard to always be near him. Seems like Fonda wasn't used to people telling him to go bleep himself or to STFU.

Seems just about every role Hopper got after that reflected Fonda's fear.

[sneakypete]

   I found the Soundtrack of ER to be the film's only redeeming quality. 

   Watching Gaslight on TCM right now.

@corbe

GREAT tunes! I agree. Without the sountrack to keep people "into the trip" I think the movie would have tanked. Even with Nicholsen and Hopper. Fonda never could act. Daddy got him all his jobs. Jane was the same. She was good in Barbarella,but mostly because she was hot back then,and what guy doesn't like looking at a semi-nude hot young woman?

That movie got her famous on her own name,and then she decided she was someone important with something important to say,and killed what little career she had. Dolly Parton,probably the ONLY likeable member of the Lesbian Mafia helped bring her back into the public eye with a movie or two,but that's it. Now the bitch is selling adult diapers or some such thing.

[skeeter]

@corbe

GREAT tunes! I agree. Without the sountrack to keep people "into the trip" I think the movie would have tanked. Even with Nicholsen and Hopper.

Never did figure out what Garden Grove had to do with the storyline.

[GtHawk]

The article couldn't be more wrong. The Depression was engineered so the uber wealthy could legally steal all the property of the poor,the middle class,and the "merely" wealthy.

Working class people saw ALL their banked money disappear as the banks closed,and their money disappeared with the bank managers.

AND....,let's not forget that the Feebs flat-out murdered Bonny and Clyde from ambush.

EH? Bonnie and Clyde ambushed and killed more than a couple police officers and it wasn't the Feebs that got them it was a Texas Ranger who led the 1934 posse that tracked down and killed criminals Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow.

If you have Netflix watch the Highwaymen, it's actually decent for their original content

[sneakypete]

EH? Bonnie and Clyde ambushed and killed more than a couple police officers and it wasn't the Feebs that got them it was a Texas Ranger who led the 1934 posse that tracked down and killed criminals Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow.

 

@GtHawk

I stand corrected. It was Texas Rangers that murdered them from ambush.

[skeeter]

@GtHawk

I stand corrected. It was Texas Rangers that murdered them from ambush.

Check out The Highwaymen w/ Kevin Costner & Woody Harrelson. A tad more accurate and watchable than the Beatty/Dunaway adaptation.

[GtHawk]

@GtHawk

I stand corrected. It was Texas Rangers that murdered them from ambush.

Hey live by the ambush, die by the ambush  I know it was horrible thing to do to two innocent kids.........real American heroes, modern day Robinhoods!

On a sunny day in May 1934, some 10,000 people visited the old Belo Mansion, in downtown Dallas, to see the outlaw Clyde Barrow lying in state. The following day, according to one report, a full 40,000 attended Bonnie Parker's funeral, a few miles away, in South Dallas.Aug 23, 2017

[sneakypete]

Hey live by the ambush, die by the ambush  I know it was horrible thing to do to two innocent kids.........real American heroes, modern day Robinhoods!

@GtHawk

Call me a dreamer,but I want to live in a world where the cops are not  indistinguishable from the criminals. I want them held to higher standards,or why bother having them?

On a sunny day in May 1934, some 10,000 people visited the old Belo Mansion, in downtown Dallas, to see the outlaw Clyde Barrow lying in state. The following day, according to one report, a full 40,000 attended Bonnie Parker's funeral, a few miles away, in South Dallas.Aug 23, 2017

That mostly had to do with the banks closing during the depression,and nobody seeming to know what happened to all the money the locals had deposited in the banks. The banks just shut down,and the bankers just seemed to disappear with no one in a position of authority seeming to give a damn.

So,as a result,the people who lost every dollar they had saved when the banks closed,tended to see other people who took money away from bankers as heroes. Bonnie and Clyde were doing to the bankers what they lacked the courage to do themselves.

AND......,given that that time in our history they were almost all working class men and women who lost every penny they had while it seemed the bankers escaped with their money,it seemed like simple justice.

[GtHawk]

@sneakypete
Hey that's cool, but I can't help thinking if Bonnie and Clyde were moslem you would be saying they got of easy You know those cops they assassinated had nothing to do with the banks and people not knowing where their money, so just maybe there was a difference.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete
Hey that's cool, but I can't help thinking if Bonnie and Clyde were moslem you would be saying they got of easy You know those cops they assassinated had nothing to do with the banks and people not knowing where their money, so just maybe there was a difference.

@GtHawk

Why are you trying to bust my balls over this? I had nothing to do with it. I CAN see how the mostly ignorant rural people back in the 20's and 30's felt about things after seeing both their money and the city banker disappearing at the same time,and none of the local or state cops doing a damn thing to help them get their money back.

And we ALL know the money didn't just disappear. It left with someone.

[GtHawk]

@GtHawk

Why are you trying to bust my balls over this? I had nothing to do with it. I CAN see how the mostly ignorant rural people back in the 20's and 30's felt about things after seeing both their money and the city banker disappearing at the same time,and none of the local or state cops doing a damn thing to help them get their money back.

And we ALL know the money didn't just disappear. It left with someone.

@sneakypete
Sorry Dude, I really had no intention of doing anything with your balls, there was/is no animosity or ball busting intended. I wouldn't do that to you.........not that I wouldn't/have done it to someone, but I really do appreciate your posts. So I'm closing the book on the Barrow Gang. Have a good night and have a great Presidents day being thankful Barry's out and Daytona Don is in 

[GrouchoTex]

   I found the Soundtrack of ER to be the film's only redeeming quality. 

   Watching Gaslight on TCM right now.

Roooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool another one.......

 

Yep, it does have a memorable soundtrack, to be sure.

Starting of with Steppenwolf's Born to be Wild.

The Birds, The Band (but actually a cover version of The Weight on the album, due to licensing issues).
Hendrix, Roger McGuinn, etc.......

[berdie]

@GtHawk

Why are you trying to bust my balls over this? I had nothing to do with it. I CAN see how the mostly ignorant rural people back in the 20's and 30's felt about things after seeing both their money and the city banker disappearing at the same time,and none of the local or state cops doing a damn thing to help them get their money back.

And we ALL know the money didn't just disappear. It left with someone.

I don't want to reignite any kind of feud @sneakypete ...but if I'm not mistaken this happened during the depression. The stock market crashed and that took everyone out.

Funny thing, I just rewatched the movie Saturday. It really is a good movie. But highly sanitized. If you read anything about B&C..they weren't so good. My departed FIL that lived that era in Texas got so darn mad over the glamorization he would just have a fit if it was mentioned. He said all that Robin Hood talk was just bunk.

[sneakypete]

I don't want to reignite any kind of feud @sneakypete ...but if I'm not mistaken this happened during the depression. The stock market crashed and that took everyone out.

@berdie

Close,but no cigar. "Took ALMOST everyone out financially" is the truth of the matter. J.P.Morgan,Joe Kennedy,the Rockefellers,and a few others didn't lose any money,and in FACT made money from the collapse of Wall Street because they had already pulled THEIR money out of the stock market and put it in their private banks. I may be wrong,but I THINK it was J.P.Morgan that was reported to have said in a newspaper interview outside the stock exchange after it reopened that "Times are so bad today,a man with a million dollars might be considered to be rich.",as he lit his cigar with a 100 dollar bill.

BTW,this wasn't a local thing,either. It was worldwide,yet how many of the wealthy banking or royal families in Europe went broke?

One thing the Depression certainly did was make it possible for anyone with any ready cash to buy up a business with a penny on the dollar value,and then reopen it and not have any,or much,competition.

You will also notice that all the uber wealthy families expanded their financial empires while times were bad. These were also the people that used their political influence (bribes) to create the tax-free trust funds that are to this very day keeping their grandchildren and great-grandchildren flush.

Funny thing, I just rewatched the movie Saturday. It really is a good movie. But highly sanitized. If you read anything about B&C..they weren't so good. My departed FIL that lived that era in Texas got so darn mad over the glamorization he would just have a fit if it was mentioned. He said all that Robin Hood talk was just bunk.

Not much doubt about that. It was the newspapers that created the whole "Robin Hood" thing as a "vehicle" to sell advertising space and newspapers. The were criminals because that IS who they were by both birth and inclination.

Most people that followed them as fans were just happy to see the bankers get "hit",too. The ones that survived bought up the assets of the ones that failed,and then repossessed the homes and businesses of the people who lost them when THEIR banker skipped out with what cash was available.

Pretty much the same thing happened after The War for Southern Independence,when the yankee bankers came south and bought up everything in sight for peanuts because the economy in the south had collapsed,and they were the only ones that had any money.

I am sure this very same thing has happened in one form or another over and over all through history. 

[musiclady]

Check out The Highwaymen w/ Kevin Costner & Woody Harrelson. A tad more accurate and watchable than the Beatty/Dunaway adaptation.

That is a great movie!

Sets the record straight after that abominable Beatty/Dunaway fiction.

[berdie]

Not much doubt about that. It was the newspapers that created the whole "Robin Hood" thing as a "vehicle" to sell advertising space and newspapers. The were criminals because that IS who they were by both birth and inclination.

Most people that followed them as fans were just happy to see the bankers get "hit",too. The ones that survived bought up the assets of the ones that failed,and then repossessed the homes and businesses of the people who lost them when THEIR banker skipped out with what cash was available.

Pretty much the same thing happened after The War for Southern Independence,when the yankee bankers came south and bought up everything in sight for peanuts because the economy in the south had collapsed,and they were the only ones that had any money.

I am sure this very same thing has happened in one form or another over and over all through history.

I don't dispute your post in any way @sneakypete . When I said "everyone was affected" I meant all of us peons...not the riche.

The only thing that kind of bothered me about your post on the matter was that B&C was the part about them being ambushed and murdered.

It depends of which account one reads. And truthfully most of the hoods in that day suffered the same fate.

It's been many years since I did research on B&C...primarily because of my fil's hatred. I don't remember a lot...I'm in another area right now.
But I do remember that some folks defended them...some did not. The huge numbers at their funerals may/may not have been there out of respect.

[goatprairie]

I don't dispute your post in any way @sneakypete . When I said "everyone was affected" I meant all of us peons...not the riche.

The only thing that kind of bothered me about your post on the matter was that B&C was the part about them being ambushed and murdered.

It depends of which account one reads. And truthfully most of the hoods in that day suffered the same fate.

It's been many years since I did research on B&C...primarily because of my fil's hatred. I don't remember a lot...I'm in another area right now.
But I do remember that some folks defended them...some did not. The huge numbers at their funerals may/may not have been there out of respect.

It should be noted that virtually all the big name gangsters/robbers from that period died violent deaths. Bonnie and Clyde, Dillinger, Pretty Boy Floyd, Baby Face Nelson, and a bunch of other indy robbers/thieves/killers had a year or two of notoriety and then succumbed to lead poisoning.

[sneakypete]

The only thing that kind of bothered me about your post on the matter was that B&C was the part about them being ambushed and murdered.

 

@berdie

I cared and care nothing about either of them. They were both career felons and murderers,and knew the end of their stories would be either death or life in prison. Bonnie even wrote at least one poem about their predicted deaths.

What I DO care about is  holding law enforcement at all levels to a higher standard than murderers and other career felons. Otherwise,why bother to have PD's at all?

[sneakypete]

It should be noted that virtually all the big name gangsters/robbers from that period died violent deaths. Bonnie and Clyde, Dillinger, Pretty Boy Floyd, Baby Face Nelson, and a bunch of other indy robbers/thieves/killers had a year or two of notoriety and then succumbed to lead poisoning.

@goatprairie
Sometimes karma insists you get what you deal.

[Neverdul]

Check out The Highwaymen w/ Kevin Costner & Woody Harrelson. A tad more accurate and watchable than the Beatty/Dunaway adaptation.

I'm not sure as to the historical accuracy but The Highwaymen was excellent and certaily more accurate than the Beatty/Dunaway movie.

[sneakypete]

I'm not sure as to the historical accuracy but The Highwaymen was excellent and certaily more accurate than the Beatty/Dunaway movie.

@Nevurdul

I think what most people seem to be missing here is it was one of the first movies to portray violence as the brutal thing it is,instead of some sort of "oopsie". Remember,this was right at the end of an era where sheriff's where shooting the gun right out of the bad guy's hand,and the bad guy didn't even need a bandaid. The realism of the brutality being filmed AS a brutality and showing some pretend gore was ground-breaking.

And maybe this is just me personally, but I honestly didn't see where the movie made B and C heroes EXCEPT for the last scene when it portrayed them as murder victims.

Hard to pick a side to cheer for when both are murderers.