The flu shot is largely worthless and possibly dangerous

[mystery-ak]

December 29, 2017
The flu shot is largely worthless and possibly dangerous
By Ed Straker

Every year, the "gubment" cajoles us to get our flu shots.  It's our civic duty!

The only problem is that studies have shown that the flu shot is either worthless or almost worthless.

    On average, past flu vaccines have been about 42 percent effective, though that number can range anywhere from 10 to 60 percent in a given year[.] ... [T]his year's flu shot may not be up to the task.  It is the same formulation that was used during Australia's most recent flu season – which typically sets a pattern for what the U.S. will face – and it was only 10 percent effective there.

Ten percent!

    Dr. Pardis Sabeti, a Harvard professor and infectious disease expert[, says,] "Even 10 percent effective is better than nothing."


more
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/12/the_flu_shot_is_largely_worthless_and_possibly_dangerous.html

[Polly Ticks]

It's not totally useless.  It's good for a $400 credit on our contributions for our insurance plan costs.

[Applewood]

6 of my relatives and friends have the flu or some kind of respiratory ailment.  I had some mystery sickness starting the end of last month and I'm till coughing and sniffling. 

One good thing about the lousy weather.  It is keeping people away from the coughers and snifflers. 

This year's flu vaccine is indeed useless.  Really?  10%.  I realize trying to predict what strains are going to be prevalent is a cr@p shoot, but it seems to me all the official explanations for why this year's guess is  so far off the mark are a cover for someone's incompetence. 

[jmyrlefuller]

I've always had a natural immunity to the flu (never had it as a kid or as an adult) so I've never even considered the flu shot.

[Bigun]

Took two of them about thirty years apart. Both nearly killed me and there will never be a third I'll assure you.

[Victoria33]

@mystery-ak
@Applewood

Saw Dallas news channel last night.  What I and Bob had and Freya has and other of our friends including likely mystery-ak now, is the flu, bacterial type which is why one has fever.  Texas has more of it than any other state.  Five have died of it in Texas so far.  They did not give the ages of those who died.  It takes as much as four to six weeks to recover from this. 

A viral flu is starting according to the CDC, which is different than this bacterial one.

[ConstitutionRose]

I saw an article (here I think) that the flue shot inhances ypur immunity to the varieties in the shot, but reduces your overall immunity in the following year.  Since the immune compromised members of the family have had their shots, I am not going to get one.  I don't get the flue so why should I compromise my healthy immune system for a temporary boost? 

[Neverdul]

@mystery-ak
@Applewood

Saw Dallas news channel last night.  What I and Bob had and Freya has and other of our friends including likely mystery-ak now, is the flu, bacterial type which is why one has fever.  Texas has more of it than any other state.  Five have died of it in Texas so far.  They did not give the ages of those who died.  It takes as much as four to six weeks to recover from this. 

A viral flu is starting according to the CDC, which is different than this bacterial one.

There is no such thing as a “bacterial influenza”. Influenza is a virus. And viruses do cause fevers.  The common cold is also caused by a virus. What does happen to some people when they come down with the flu is that they become highly susceptible to secondary bacterial infections such as bacterial bronchitis and pneumonia or sinus infections. A secondary pneumonia infection is often the cause for why people die from influenza unless one is talking about something like the 1918 “Spanish Flu”.

With that influenza outbreak, rather than mortality rates being mostly among the very old or very young or sickly, it killed young and otherwise healthy people do to a cytokine storm (overreaction of the body's immune system).

With the Spanish Flu, many people came down sick one day and were dead the next. No time for any secondary bacterial infections to take hold. The flu just killed them.

[TomSea]

What are people's symptoms? I came down with something like it seems I do every year but overall, I've been able to combat it more.

My main symptom is tiredness, some muscle aches. It's a bummer,  some fever at times, I believe I'm almost over it. Not much coughing or other.

[TomSea]

I get lazy with my vitamins but I do take a multi, echinacea-golden root, D3,  B complex, cod liver oil in capsules and maybe a few other supplements, zinc, vitamin C or even just have oranges around.  But my main setback seems to be tiredness for a few days, sometimes, I"m not even sure what I have. I have gotten infections before, about 10 years ago, some pink eye and when it hits, I worry, "am I going to lose my eyesight in one eye?" but luckily, I recovered fairly quickly.

[TomSea]

@mystery-ak
@Applewood

Saw Dallas news channel last night.  What I and Bob had and Freya has and other of our friends including likely mystery-ak now, is the flu, bacterial type which is why one has fever.  Texas has more of it than any other state.  Five have died of it in Texas so far.  They did not give the ages of those who died.  It takes as much as four to six weeks to recover from this. 

A viral flu is starting according to the CDC, which is different than this bacterial one.

@Victoria33

But you were telling us you just went to a casino the other day.  What are your symptoms if you don't mind me asking?

[Victoria33]

@Victoria33

But you were telling us you just went to a casino the other day.  What are your symptoms if you don't mind me asking?

@TomSea
@mystery-ak

I have been over this flu for close to two weeks, which is why I could go to the casino.
My and Bob's and a friend with a serious heart problem, and Frey's symptoms are these:
Bad throat all of us, complete laryngitis for friend, me, Freya (no voice for numerous days, mine much worse than Bob's, he never completely lost his voice), friend and Freya threw up, we didn't, head seriously congested, terrible cough that lasted for weeks, hard to sleep due to coughing all night, then chest congestion coughing up green stuff, Bob and Freya and friend coughed up blood, I didn't, but blew blood out of my nose which Bob did too.  Fever, friend's and Frey's up to 102.  Didn't check what mine was or what Bob's was.  Friend and Freya had trouble breathing.  Doctor of friend with only 30% of heart working, gave him an inhaler of something which helped his breathing.  We were afraid he was going to die as it put his heart under stress.

[Victoria33]

@Neverdul

The CDC said this illness is bacterial.  The doc for the heart patient said it is bacterial and can come back a second time and be worse.  CDC also said a viral flu is starting.

[XenaLee]

I get lazy with my vitamins but I do take a multi, echinacea-golden root, D3,  B complex, cod liver oil in capsules and maybe a few other supplements, zinc, vitamin C or even just have oranges around.  But my main setback seems to be tiredness for a few days, sometimes, I"m not even sure what I have. I have gotten infections before, about 10 years ago, some pink eye and when it hits, I worry, "am I going to lose my eyesight in one eye?" but luckily, I recovered fairly quickly.

For years I have relied on a daily glass (not cup) of Yogi detox tea with a packet of Super Orange EmergenC in it to keep me from coming down sick.  It works like a charm...

so far.  (hope I didn't just jinx myself)

[Neverdul]

@Neverdul

The CDC said this illness is bacterial.  The doc for the heart patient said it is bacterial and can come back a second time and be worse.  CDC also said a viral flu is starting.

There could very well be a nasty bacterial infection going around. But influenza is never bacterial, it is a virus.

[Victoria33]

There could very well be a nasty bacterial infection going around. But influenza is never bacterial, it is a virus.

This disease could be both viral and bacterial.  The friend with the heart condition was given antibiotics since it is bacterial for sure but virus could also be there:

"Sinus and ear infections are examples of moderate complications from flu, while pneumonia is a serious flu complication that can result from either influenza virus infection alone or from co-infection of flu virus and bacteria."

[Cyber Liberty]

If one is laying on his/her back, barely able to breath because of congestion and with laryngitis, it really doesn't matter if it's the Flu or a bacterial infection, except the treatment regimens will be different.  The Flu shots are supposed to ward off the viral in advance, but only if the correct strains are in them.  Nothing I know of (except the numerous Homeopathic remedies I see suggested) will ward off the bacterial.

Does a vaccination help?  Hurt?  YMMV.

[musiclady]

I don't get the flu with a flu shot, and I don't get it without a flu shot.

Makes no difference.

[Cyber Liberty]

I've noticed the CDC's pushing vaccinations of all kinds. Desn't matter what the ailment is, they want the entire population vaccinated.  It worked for Polio, so it must be good for everything else, right?

They believe in "Herd Immunity," which means they think of us all as a Herd.  I'd like to see a more thorough examination of the consequences of what they propose, done by independent anylists.  This is the same government that swears Global Warming and Tax Cuts will surely kill us all, by the year 2500.

[Neverdul]

This disease could be both viral and bacterial.  The friend with the heart condition was given antibiotics since it is bacterial for sure but virus could also be there:

"Sinus and ear infections are examples of moderate complications from flu, while pneumonia is a serious flu complication that can result from either influenza virus infection alone or from co-infection of flu virus and bacteria."

There are some diseases, and influenza is not one of them, that can be either viral or bacterial or even fungal in nature and cause similar symptoms but they are not actually the same diseases. Meningitis comes to mind. Meningitis is really more of a description of symptoms that attacks and causes inflammation of the brain and spinal cord more than it is a singular disease.

https://www.healthline.com/health/meningitis-awareness/bacterial-viral-fungal-meningitis#viral-meningitis

Bronchitis is another, can be either viral or bacterial

http://www.uofmhealth.org/health-library/hw49584

But influenza, the flu is always caused by a virus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza

Serious complications resulting from an influenza virus can be either a secondary viral or more likely from a secondary bacterial infection.

[Victoria33]

But influenza, the flu is always caused by a virus.

@Neverdul

The CDC says the flu is starting, so that likely is not what those in Texas had, have, as it has been here for numerous weeks.  The doc gave our friend antibiotics as he said it is bacterial.  That being the case, the actual flu is not here, yet.  According to local news TV last night, five in Texas have died from whatever this is. 

[Suppressed]

I saw an article (here I think) that the flue shot inhances ypur immunity to the varieties in the shot, but reduces your overall immunity in the following year.  Since the immune compromised members of the family have had their shots, I am not going to get one.  I don't get the flue so why should I compromise my healthy immune system for a temporary boost?

An analysis of the various papers on the topic recently came out that showed that wasn't the case.  If I come across the citation, I'll post it.

[Neverdul]

@Neverdul

The CDC says the flu is starting, so that likely is not what those in Texas had, have, as it has been here for numerous weeks.  The doc gave our friend antibiotics as he said it is bacterial.  That being the case, the actual flu is not here, yet.  According to local news TV last night, five in Texas have died from whatever this is.

If the doctor proscribed an antibiotic, then it wasn’t influenza unless the doctor was an idiot as an antibiotic is complete useless and counter indicated for a viral infection. Hopefully the doctor did some sort of culture before deciding it was bacterial. The over proscribing of and the misuse of antibiotics has become a real problem.

[RetBobbyMI]

Haven't take a flu shot since '76 when the Army MADE me take it and I got sicker than a dog from the swine flu.  Then they revealed years later that it was stabilized with Mercury.  The problem with flu shots is you don't know what you're getting.  The ole saying: Trust me, the check's in the mail and other similar ones.

[LadyLiberty]

For the week ending December 23rd, the CDC is reporting that the flu is widespread in most states, see map here:  https://espanol.cdc.gov/enes/flu/weekly/usmap.htm

[musiclady]

For the week ending December 23rd, the CDC is reporting that the flu is widespread in most states, see map here:  https://espanol.cdc.gov/enes/flu/weekly/usmap.htm

Wash your hands, people.   That stuff is everywhere!

Yikes!

[LadyLiberty]

This is the most current report on influenza in the state of Texas, published today.  It shows "widespread" for both last week and this week.  http://www.dshs.texas.gov/IDCU/disease/influenza/surveillance/2017---2018-Texas-Influenza-Surveillance-Activity-Report.xls

@Neverdul Pneumonia is another that can be caused by both bacterial and viral.

[Sanguine]

For the week ending December 23rd, the CDC is reporting that the flu is widespread in most states, see map here:  https://espanol.cdc.gov/enes/flu/weekly/usmap.htm

Thanks!

[Neverdul]

This is the most current report on influenza in the state of Texas, published today.  It shows "widespread" for both last week and this week.  http://www.dshs.texas.gov/IDCU/disease/influenza/surveillance/2017---2018-Texas-Influenza-Surveillance-Activity-Report.xls

@Neverdul Pneumonia is another that can be caused by both bacterial and viral.

Yes. Pneumonia can be either viral or bacterial. My father died in 1997 from bacterial pneumonia after eight weeks in the ICU on a ventilator. It started out as a very bad head cold and then got much, much, worse and very quickly.

FWIW, the doctors and nurses at Johns Hopkins did everything they could do to save him, really fought hard to save his life and with all sorts of medications, antibiotics and therapies but in the end there was nothing more they could do for him. He was a diabetic and in 1992 he contracted bacterial meningitis that nearly killed him. I think that all the antibiotics they gave him to fight the meningitis back in 92 may have contributed to him being more susceptible to the strain of pneumonia that was, as the doctors told us, was an antibiotic resistant strain.

[Neverdul]

Wash your hands, people.   That stuff is everywhere!

Yikes!

Yes. Wash your hands frequently and avoid touching your nose and eyes and if you start feeling sick, do everyone a favor and stay home as to not to spread it.

[TomSea]

For years I have relied on a daily glass (not cup) of Yogi detox tea with a packet of Super Orange EmergenC in it to keep me from coming down sick.  It works like a charm...

so far.  (hope I didn't just jinx myself)

@XenaLee

Thanks, I did get some EmergenC; I will check about the detox tea soon as well.

[ConstitutionRose]

An analysis of the various papers on the topic recently came out that showed that wasn't the case.  If I come across the citation, I'll post it.

Thanks!

[TomSea]

@TomSea
@mystery-ak

I have been over this flu for close to two weeks, which is why I could go to the casino.
My and Bob's and a friend with a serious heart problem, and Frey's symptoms are these:
Bad throat all of us, complete laryngitis for friend, me, Freya (no voice for numerous days, mine much worse than Bob's, he never completely lost his voice), friend and Freya threw up, we didn't, head seriously congested, terrible cough that lasted for weeks, hard to sleep due to coughing all night, then chest congestion coughing up green stuff, Bob and Freya and friend coughed up blood, I didn't, but blew blood out of my nose which Bob did too.  Fever, friend's and Frey's up to 102.  Didn't check what mine was or what Bob's was.  Friend and Freya had trouble breathing.  Doctor of friend with only 30% of heart working, gave him an inhaler of something which helped his breathing.  We were afraid he was going to die as it put his heart under stress.

@Victoria33

Thank you, that is helpful too.

[TomSea]

Flu outbreak in 36 states, major news story:

http://www.wgmd.com/flu-outbreak-already-reported-in-36-states-cdc-says/

[WingNot]

Flu is nature's way of culling the herd and reducing the surplus population. 
I don't get flu shots.  Never have. Never will.

[musiclady]

Yes. Wash your hands frequently and avoid touching your nose and eyes and if you start feeling sick, do everyone a favor and stay home as to not to spread it.

Indeed! If people wouldn't be so 'brave' and come to school or work when they're ill, these flu bugs would die a faster death.

btw, does anyone else have as hard a time as I do not touching eyes and nose?  It's terrible for a person with sinus trouble and allergies to keep one's hands away.  I do it subconsciously and stop myself too late saying, "What am I doing??"

[TomSea]

Don't they say the germs are around as much in the summer but that people spend more time indoors in the winter.

[musiclady]

Don't they say the germs are around as much in the summer but that people spend more time indoors in the winter.

That's what I've always heard.  Too many people in close quarters in the winter and not enough fresh air.

I always keep a bottle of hand sanitizer in the car so I can wash my hands any time anywhere.

[Cyber Liberty]

Indeed! If people wouldn't be so 'brave' and come to school or work when they're ill, these flu bugs would die a faster death.

btw, does anyone else have as hard a time as I do not touching eyes and nose?  It's terrible for a person with sinus trouble and allergies to keep one's hands away.  I do it subconsciously and stop myself too late saying, "What am I doing??"

Problem Solved.  You're welcome!

[musiclady]

OK............. THAT is disturbing!   

[WingNot]

Problem Solved.  You're welcome!

I see from the picture above that the fat little indonesian baby is all growed up now!

[Sanguine]

Flu is nature's way of culling the herd and reducing the surplus population. 
I don't get flu shots.  Never have. Never will.

....because you want to be culled?

[Applewood]

Indeed! If people wouldn't be so 'brave' and come to school or work when they're ill, these flu bugs would die a faster death.

When I was a young pup, I admit I dragged myself into the office, no matter what.  It was ingrained in me that a working person had this duty to show up for work .  I guess it went back to the days when there was no such thing as sick leave. If you didn't work, you didn't get paid.  Didn't have that problem, but I still felt I had to be responsible and go to work.

As I got older, I noticed that younger employees didn't have that dedication.  If they had a bad hair day, they stayed home.  I stopped being so brave and started to stay home when I was sick.  I'm sure my co-workers were relieved.

[musiclady]

When I was a young pup, I admit I dragged myself into the office, no matter what.  It was ingrained in me that a working person had this duty to show up for work .  I guess it went back to the days when there was no such thing as sick leave. If you didn't work, you didn't get paid.  Didn't have that problem, but I still felt I had to be responsible and go to work.

As I got older, I noticed that younger employees didn't have that dedication.  If they had a bad hair day, they stayed home.  I stopped being so brave and started to stay home when I was sick.  I'm sure my co-workers were relieved.

There's a fine line between dedicated hard work and the problem of putting your co-workers at risk.

My husband (recently retired) is a crazy person who never, ever stayed home from work because of illness.  I had to hogtie him in bed when he tried to go to work with Shingles.

But you're right.  Todays youts are in a whole different league.  Our kids stood way above the crowd just because they knew how to work, got there on time, and did what was expected of them.

[Neverdul]

There's a fine line between dedicated hard work and the problem of putting your co-workers at risk.

My husband (recently retired) is a crazy person who never, ever stayed home from work because of illness.  I had to hogtie him in bed when he tried to go to work with Shingles.

But you're right.  Todays youts are in a whole different league.  Our kids stood way above the crowd just because they knew how to work, got there on time, and did what was expected of them.

I was working in an office and one the managers who was quite the workaholic, came to work with pertussis (whooping cough) which is highly contagious and can be deadly in young children and in fact her young 1-year-old grandson was also sick with it and IIRC had to be hospitalized.

She missed I think only one day of work but then came back, still feverish, sweating like a pig and coughing like crazy but told people, “My doctor told me that since I started taking antibiotics (yesterday) that I’m not contagious anymore”.  BS!

I was in her office for a meeting the day she came back and sat as far away from her as possible and after the meeting washed my hands and my face with hand sanitizer.

One woman in the office was very unhappy with this manager as she had a young infant at home.

The next job I had, I had a laptop with a VPN and so I could work from home, and in fact my boss insisted that we did if we were sick.

[Neverdul]

I've noticed the CDC's pushing vaccinations of all kinds. Desn't matter what the ailment is, they want the entire population vaccinated.  It worked for Polio, so it must be good for everything else, right?

They believe in "Herd Immunity," which means they think of us all as a Herd.  I'd like to see a more thorough examination of the consequences of what they propose, done by independent anylists.  This is the same government that swears Global Warming and Tax Cuts will surely kill us all, by the year 2500.

Herd immunity is and has been well understood for quite a while.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

Vaccines and Herd Immunity
! No longer available

Vaccines and Herd Immunity
! No longer available

How Measles Made a Comeback
! No longer available

Penn and Teller on Vaccinations (warning – language)

! No longer available

FWIW, I support those people who refuse to get vaccinated for religious or other objections. But on the other hand, I also support that those people during a vaccination preventable disease outbreak, should be forced into a quarantine.

FWIW, I recall back in the early 70’s when a neighbor living in the apartment below my family had a kid who contracted Scarlet Fever.

I came home from school and found a sign sort of like this one posted on my neighbor’s apartment door. Yes, the Baltimore City Health department quarantined the entire family.



Other examples:





If you want to opt out of vaccinations, fine, but if you or any of your family members get sick, you should be quarantined as not to spread the disease to others.

[driftdiver]

Herd immunity is and has been well understood for quite a while.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

Vaccines and Herd Immunity
! No longer available

Vaccines and Herd Immunity
! No longer available

How Measles Made a Comeback
! No longer available

Penn and Teller on Vaccinations (warning – language)

! No longer available

FWIW, I support those people who refuse to get vaccinated for religious or other objections. But on the other hand, I also support that those people during a vaccination preventable disease outbreak, should be forced into a quarantine.

FWIW, I recall back in the early 70’s when a neighbor living in the apartment below my family had a kid who contracted Scarlet Fever.

I came home from school and found a sign sort of like this one posted on my neighbor’s apartment door. Yes, the Baltimore City Health department quarantined the entire family.



Other examples:





If you want to opt out of vaccinations, fine, but if you or any of your family members get sick, you should be quarantined as not to spread the disease to others.

@Neverdul

Treating all vaccines the same and beneficial is just as unscientific as saying all vaccines are bad.

[TomSea]

Imagine spreading the virus around and someone not only contracts it through you at work or church or elsewhere; but they die from it. Every year, we read about some deaths and sometimes, that number is quite high.

For example, this quote:

North Carolina reported 219 flu-related deaths during the 2016-17 season, which runs from October through May.
http://www.heraldsun.com/news/state/article191961214.html

That's really quite a number for a state like NC, not that huge of a population.

CDC discusses some the 2015-16 flu season:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season-2015-2016.htm

[Neverdul]

@Neverdul

Treating all vaccines the same and beneficial is just as unscientific as saying all vaccines are bad.

@driftdiver
So tell me which vaccines are beneficial and which vaccines are bad? And why and on what basis do you make that determination.

So your kids don’t die from measles or polio because you chose to have them get the measles and polio vaccine but you didn’t get your older children vaccinated for pertussis and your older kids infected your infant and he or she died from it.

There is no reason in the western world with our access to vaccines for pretty much any child to die from a vaccine preventable disease. None. Except out of ignorance.

[WingNot]

....because you want to be culled?

I have a list. Just a few people here and there.