Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election

[XenaLee]

The only point I'd disagree on is that it was limited to the left.   I think the GOP was in on it as well

Yes, of course.... the RINOs and GOP establishment are at fault, as well and as usual.  Which is why the nation is or has morphed into a Uniparty system.  The left has no real opposition to their agenda now.

[DiogenesLamp]

No it's speculation on your part and nothing else. Strange was endorsed by a President who won the state easily a year ago. Trump was also accused of corruption and sexual impropriety, but they still voted for him overwhelmingly.  How would voters in this state be so easily swayed by the media in one instance but not the other?

I don't think there is any purpose to me once again pointing out that this tactic of smearing people has worked several times in the past,   and that Strange had known liabilities and would have been highly vulnerable to accusations of corruption.   


I think you underestimate the Democrats tactical ability and their desperation directed at stealing this seat.

[Cyber Liberty]

Fine. Quote me where in the 14th Amendment it says that homosexuals can marry. QUOTE IT.

You can't. It isn't there. You are trying to use a misapplication of the 14th to supersede the 10th. The Federal Government has NO (zero, nada, none) Constitutional Authority to regulate marriage, either as a civil matter or a sacrament. It is a usurpation of power.

The Heller Court? What "Heller Court"? Chief Justice Heller? Nonsense.

The second amendment says the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. They government has usurped that power too, to the tune of thousands of laws and regulations.

No you got the homo-loving gun control supporting baby slaughtering totalitarian guy you wanted. You have exposed yourself and your bullshit once again.

As for the GOP?   It was carrying in its waistband and has grievously wounded itself. It's a dead party walking--the bleeding out will take a while, but it is going to happen.

Maybe they should get some Celox?  I was just suggesting that to @bigheadfred in The Lounge....

[txradioguy]

No you got the homo-loving gun control supporting baby slaughtering totalitarian guy you wanted. You have exposed yourself and your bullshit once again.

Nailed it.

[XenaLee]

I'm thinking there is a good chance it really is unbelievable,   and this is why I think a recount needs to be sought,  ala Franken in Minnesota.

No.  It's over.  A recount would be a waste of time, energy and money, IMO.

The voters had their chance.  They were swayed by public opinion and unproven allegations.  They have to deal with and live with that reality now.

[Smokin Joe]

Point is.... giving the seat to a Democrat is putting Trump one step closer to an impeachment proceeding... which is what the Trump haters & Democrats are all counting on.  The people in Alabama fell victim to the leftist tactics of personal destruction and Herman Caining strategy of the rabid left.  They were duped into handing the seat to the rats... despite their support of Trump...

and in a red state.  I find that indicative of how the left will be pushing the entire nation full-tilt from now on.  They have their playbook and their tactics are working splendidly.  It's a danger to the entire nation... not just Alabama or one state.  Do you not get that?

Actually, the only place I really see this related to Trump is that he's next on the 'gotcha' hit parade, and just like the Media did with Nixon, they will try to hound him out of office. Keep in mind that Mitch and most of the GOPe don't want Trump, he's upsetting the apple cart and must be cutting into their bottom lines. They will mouth platitudes and limp-wristed support until the vote comes then they'll gleefully (but regrettably, of course) have 'no alternative' to try to rid themselves of someone who has exposed their little pocket stuffing operation in DC.

[XenaLee]

Reagan was accused of lying about funding the Contras, he came clean about it but it paralyzed the last two years of his Presidency.

Oh Gawwwd... I can't even tell you how sick and tired I got of hearing the leftists bleat about "Iran-Contra" against Reagan.  Have I mentioned how much I detest leftists?  lololol

[DiogenesLamp]

@XenaLee

 behind a credibly accused molester,

I don't think Goebbels pioneered the concept of simply repeating ad infinitum,   but he certainly exploited it,   as have you. 

No,  the accusations were not credible.   They do in fact contradict each other,   and have been found to be incorrect or problematic about important details.   


But you keep repeating your assertion that they were "credible."    We wouldn't want you to miss any sleep at night. 

[XenaLee]

Actually, the only place I really see this related to Trump is that he's next on the 'gotcha' hit parade, and just like the Media did with Nixon, they will try to hound him out of office. Keep in mind that Mitch and most of the GOPe don't want Trump, he's upsetting the apple cart and must be cutting into their bottom lines. They will mouth platitudes and limp-wristed support until the vote comes then they'll gleefully (but regrettably, of course) have 'no alternative' to try to rid themselves of someone who has exposed their little pocket stuffing operation in DC.

Of course.  All of it.... Weinstein, Stacey, Conyers, etc.... all of it was merely a 'lead up' to their push to oust (or impeach) Trump.  There is always an ulterior motive behind what the rabid left does.... if/when they are turning on one of their own .....ie sacrificial lambs are often used by the left, despite their obvious anti-religious bent.

[DiogenesLamp]

@DiogenesLamp

Silly females.

Face it, the only people whose chirps mattered chirped by writing in someone besides the two train wrecks running.

They did in fact chose the winner,  because elections are always binary.    You get either one or the other.   They got the default choice. 

[Smokin Joe]

Yep!  That is exactly what you can expect to see from now on.

Standard pattern: Initial allegation. Didn't take? Double down. Then hit with the dribbled in add-ons, paced to keep the original allegations in the news and phrased to allow the talking heads and newsreaders to use plurals and words like "multiple" and make things seem even worse than they seemed before. As the refutations come out, ignore those in the media and double down again (this ain't blackjack, you can keep going with that). Keep repeating the story over and over, use the same buzzwords across the dial and hammer the big lie home. If all else fails find a write in candidate to split the vote and ensure the win.

[DiogenesLamp]

Yes.

That doesn't even make sense to me.    I see no way in which more speeches would have converted those "write in"  votes to Moore votes.   

I see no way in which more speeches would have motivated more voters to come out for Moore. 

[edpc]

I don't think there is any purpose to me once again pointing out that this tactic of smearing people has worked several times in the past,   and that Strange had known liabilities and would have been highly vulnerable to accusations of corruption.   


I think you underestimate the Democrats tactical ability and their desperation directed at stealing this seat.

That's okay, because I think you're giving them too much credit for beating a terrible candidate with such low turnout by such a small margin.  They're 1 out of 5 in these special elections for Trump appointments.  Perhaps someone named Mendoza is their chief strategist.

[Silver Pines]

If I’m trying to create a poll in the poll section, do I just type the options and hit post?  Does a mod add the bullets or is there a step I need to do?

[DiogenesLamp]

Trump worked harder than Moore.

He also had greater assets (both financially and socially)   and was accused of a lot less. 

[Cyber Liberty]

Oh Gawwwd... I can't even tell you how sick and tired I got of hearing the leftists bleat about "Iran-Contra" against Reagan.  Have I mentioned how much I detest leftists?  lololol

Yeah, me too.  Hated it, they thought they could "Nixon" him.  But you have to admit those two years were the worst of his time in office....

[Smokin Joe]

The people they are expecting to round up for the cattle cars are armed.

This ain't no Disney musical, pal!

[Free Vulcan]

Standard pattern: Initial allegation. Didn't take? Double down. Then hit with the dribbled in add-ons, paced to keep the original allegations in the news and phrased to allow the talking heads and newsreaders to use plurals and words like "multiple" and make things seem even worse than they seemed before. As the refutations come out, ignore those in the media and double down again (this ain't blackjack, you can keep going with that). Keep repeating the story over and over, use the same buzzwords across the dial and hammer the big lie home. If all else fails find a write in candidate to split the vote and ensure the win.

You could see the coordination and orchestration. And people just lapped it up, wanting to feel righteous.

[Frank Cannon]

Yes,  it was all that stuff that cost him the election.   

Sharpest knife in the drawer you are.

LOL. You are spinning like a top to try to make you poor decision to back Moore full tilt the way you did something good.

Why don't you try reading the post I responded too. It didn't say anything about what cost this 3 times a loser his election. I was responding to someone claiming Moore was the poster boy for Conservatism today like Goldwater in '64. From my list of comments Moore made the last month, are you in agreement he is?

[XenaLee]

Yeah, me too.  Hated it, they thought they could "Nixon" him.  But you have to admit those two years were the worst of his time in office....

He actually had the noive to oppose commies (gasp!).  They had to try to take him down for that.  Had to.

[Cyber Liberty]

If I’m trying to create a poll in the poll section, do I just type the options and hit post?  Does a mod add the bullets or is there a step I need to do?

I PM'ed the expert...

[Silver Pines]

They did in fact chose the winner,  because elections are always binary.    You get either one or the other.   They got the default choice.

@DiogenesLamp

Elections are never binary.  They took advantage of a third choice, and the consequences of having a lousy candidate came home to roost.

[Frank Cannon]

[XenaLee]

If I’m trying to create a poll in the poll section, do I just type the options and hit post?  Does a mod add the bullets or is there a step I need to do?

LOL!   I can't wait to see that poll! 

Have no clue how to create one tho.

[Silver Pines]

I PM'ed the expert...

Thanks, @Cyber Liberty

[DiogenesLamp]

Sad part is, it's already happening, literally the very next day.

The piranhas taste blood in the water.   Of course they are going to try to go into a feeding frenzy. 


 

[Cyber Liberty]

He actually had the noive to oppose commies (gasp!).  They had to try to take him down for that.  Had to.

They thought they successfully torpedoed the effort...then the USSR unexpectedly collapsed.  LOL.

[Silver Pines]

LOL!   I can't wait to see that poll! 

Have no clue how to create one tho.

@Xena Lee

You might like it.  I made a promise earlier and I’m gonna keep it.

[Smokin Joe]

Fourteenth Amendment.  I'll say it slowly - F-O-U-R-T-E-E-N-T-H Amendment.   

I'll try. TENTH AMENDMENT

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Here are the reserved powers: https://www.congress.gov/content/conan/pdf/GPO-CONAN-REV-2016-10-11.pdf

Marriage isn't there. The regulation of marriage isn't there. It is a power the Federal Government does not lawfully possess under the Constitution.
The Power to regulate Marriage is reserved to the States and the People, and in Alabama BOTH spoke in the adoption of a Constitutional Amendment defining marriage as between one man and one woman, said Amendment approved by 81% of the electorate.

Claim what you will but the Court is wrong. I'll say that slowly W-R-O-N-G.

[DiogenesLamp]

No, people from both parties were just calling him a misogynistic, libertine, Russian-colluding whoremaster.

No they didn't,  but even had they done so,   It's still a far cry from calling him a child molester and a rapist.   


Trump wouldn't have survived that.   

[Cyber Liberty]

@Xena Lee

You might like it.  I made a promise earlier and I’m gonna keep it.

I'd like to see it too.  I've never made one, but @corbe does all the time.  Ping us when you get it up there?

[Smokin Joe]

The election really wasn't bought with money.   It was bought with accusations.   


And New York/Washington Propaganda power.

PRECISELY!

[DiogenesLamp]

True, come to think of it.   The RINOe set the stage on this defeat as much as the Soros Democrats did.  Good point.

Seriously and sadly... this will only result in yet more voters staying home next year rather than vote GOP.

I predicted up thread that this betrayal may very well come back to bite them in the butt.    I have lost all respect for Flake, Shelby and I have lost a lot of respect for Cruz.   

I had no further respect for McConnell or McCain to lose.   

[Bigun]

I don't think Goebbels pioneered the concept of simply repeating ad infinitum,   but he certainly exploited it,   as have you. 

No,  the accusations were not credible.   They do in fact contradict each other,   and have been found to be incorrect or problematic about important details.   


But you keep repeating your assertion that they were "credible."    We wouldn't want you to miss any sleep at night.

@DiogenesLamp

Gobbels learned the craft from the master. One Edward Bernays.

http://www.criticalthink.info/webindex/bernays.htm

[Hoodat]

Good grief, you people sound like a bunch of Hillary apologists.  Hillary and Moore lost for the exact same reason.  They were pathetic lazy candidates who thought the seat would be handed to them.

[Silver Pines]

@CatherineofAragon

George only told you it was a new rule to get on your good side.  True.   

@Cyber Liberty

I’m just using George.  It’s a good paycheck.

[DiogenesLamp]

It's all about style nowadays.  He probably could have pulled off a win if he had gotten out there and convinced voters that he was innocent and in charge. 

How do you do that?   Virtually every day I would see "Good Morning America"  mention "8 women have accused Moore of Sexual impropriety,  including attempted rape and molestation of an underaged girl."   


ABC has a hundred billion dollar propaganda machine.   What could have reached as deep into people's minds as that?   

Most of the people on this site exempted, that's how voters pick candidates today.  By their style.  Remember all the "which candidate would you prefer to go have a beer with?" questions.

He had a tough row to hoe, no question, but he could have put up a better "style" fight.

His "style"  was fine prior to the accusations.   Why did it become inadequate after the accusations?   Could it be the accusations and the Republican's reaction to them  (Deliberately solicited and in a manner to deliberately put them on the spot by the "media")   had an effect on the voters?   

Hannity's sponsors threatened to drop him for not instantaneously accepting all the accusations against Moore as valid.   

How do you fight such power without similar tools possessed by such power? 

[Cyber Liberty]

@Cyber Liberty

I’m just using George.  It’s a good paycheck.

@CatherineofAragon

Hey, it all spends the same when it's time to pay the mortgage.  Don't let him start paying you in bitcoin, that chit's gonna crash...

[DiogenesLamp]

The only point I'd disagree on is that it was limited to the left.   I think the GOP was in on it as well

It is clear the party apparatus did not want this man.   They were all too eager to embrace any excuse to destroy his candidacy,  and all too reluctant to restore any support they had previously withdrawn. 

[XenaLee]

I'd like to see it too.  I've never made one, but @corbe does all the time.  Ping us when you get it up there?

Disclaimer:  I really hate it when there's no "None of the above" option....

[Bigun]

It is clear the party apparatus did not want this man.   They were all too eager to embrace any excuse to destroy his candidacy,  and all too reluctant to restore any support they had previously withdrawn.

@DiogenesLamp

Mitch McConnell made it perfectly clear to me that WE were no longer going to be allowed to pick our own candidates LONG ago!  Shortly after Ted Cruz was seated in the US. Senate IIRC.

[DiogenesLamp]

No.  It's over.  A recount would be a waste of time, energy and money, IMO.

The voters had their chance.  They were swayed by public opinion and unproven allegations.  They have to deal with and live with that reality now.

I believe there may very well be examples of fraud throughout the ballots.   I believe there were probably thousands of ineligible voters who voted in these elections,   and I see no harm in pursuing it.   


There is no further risk to going forward with it,   and the potential win makes it worth attempting.   


Nothing to lose. 

[dfwgator]

Disclaimer:  I really hate it when there's no "None of the above" option....

What about "Not Sure"

[edpc]

No they didn't

Sure they did.  I neglected to include bigoted, jingoistic, racist in the accusations, as well.


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/where-republicans-stand-on-donald-trump-a-cheat-sheet/481449/

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/07/politics/donald-trump-republicans-endorsement/index.html

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/trump-praise-russia-iran-assad-criticism-229546

[XenaLee]

I predicted up thread that this betrayal may very well come back to bite them in the butt.    I have lost all respect for Flake, Shelby and I have lost a lot of respect for Cruz.   

I had no further respect for McConnell or McCain to lose.

Cruz is between a rock & a hard place though.  What else can he do?  He has already seen what bucking the system and the establishment gets you.  All he can do is stick it out and try to make small steps in the right direction.  Right?

[XenaLee]

What about "Not Sure"

That would work too.  As long as there's another option besides the ones that never seem to fit MY (contrarian?) opinion...heh.

[DiogenesLamp]

Standard pattern: Initial allegation. Didn't take? Double down. Then hit with the dribbled in add-ons, paced to keep the original allegations in the news and phrased to allow the talking heads and newsreaders to use plurals and words like "multiple" and make things seem even worse than they seemed before. As the refutations come out, ignore those in the media and double down again (this ain't blackjack, you can keep going with that). Keep repeating the story over and over, use the same buzzwords across the dial and hammer the big lie home. If all else fails find a write in candidate to split the vote and ensure the win.

And i'm pretty sure that the three named witnesses that came forward to claim that they never saw Roy Moore in "the old Hickory House"  in 1977,   were never put on the air.   The very fact that there were such people refuting the claim was never put on the air. 


The media-weapon does most of it's damage by omission.   

[Silver Pines]

I'd like to see it too.  I've never made one, but @corbe does all the time.  Ping us when you get it up there?

@Cyber Liberty

I will.  I see @Freya made one too, but I don't think she's on right now.

[XenaLee]

I believe there may very well be examples of fraud throughout the ballots.   I believe there were probably thousands of ineligible voters who voted in these elections,   and I see no harm in pursuing it.   


There is no further risk to going forward with it,   and the potential win makes it worth attempting.   


Nothing to lose.

Some would say that it's a rather Al Goreish (or Al Frankenish?) leftie tactic to demand a recount.  I think Moore should accept the defeat gracefully and move the hell on.  It really is.... OVAH.  He should have fought back with more vehemence, perhaps?  Been more convincing?  All water under the troll bridge now.

[Bigun]

And i'm pretty sure that the three named witnesses that came forward to claim that they never saw Roy Moore in "the old Hickory House"  in 1977,   were never put on the air.   The very fact that there were such people refuting the claim was never put on the air. 


The media-weapon does most of it's damage by omission.

Even if it is the accused himself refuting the claim!  I happen to have some personal experience with that!