BOMBSHELL: Flu shots scientifically proven to weaken immune response in subsequent years… researchers stunned

[rangerrebew]

BOMBSHELL: Flu shots scientifically proven to weaken immune response in subsequent years… researchers stunned

Tuesday, October 17, 2017 by: Mike Adams   

Image: BOMBSHELL: Flu shots scientifically proven to weaken immune response in subsequent years… researchers stunned

(Natural News) A medical study conducted at the Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center found that women who received flu vaccines had a weakened immune system response in subsequent years.

Lisa Christian, PhD, the lead researcher on the study, concluded, “Growing evidence shows that those who received a flu shot in the prior year have lower antibody responses in the current year.”

https://www.naturalnews.com/2017-10-17-bombshell-flu-shots-scientifically-proven-to-weaken-immune-response-in-subsequent-years-researchers-stunned.html

[KingsX]

God made my immune system.

Men made vaccines.

Which one am I going to trust ?

[Neverdul]

God made my immune system.

Men made vaccines.

Which one am I going to trust ?

I guess these people were not in line when god was handing out immune systems.

[DB]

I guess these people were not in line when god was handing out immune systems.

Mike Adams is the source of the story. He lost all credibility with me some time ago. Just another Alex Jones wannabe in my view.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Naturalnews = kook site.

This place is overrun with kook nutjobs.

[Smokin Joe]

Whatever the case, I have had neither flu shots nor the flu, while people I know who have had the shots have been sick a lot more. That doesn't prove anything because of all the variables involved, including that 'sickly' people are more likely to get a vaccine, so it is what it is.

As for the folks in iron lungs, I remember those days, was vaccinated, but then there is SV40.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Whatever the case, I have had neither flu shots nor the flu, while people I know who have had the shots have been sick a lot more. That doesn't prove anything because of all the variables involved, including that 'sickly' people are more likely to get a vaccine, so it is what it is.

As for the folks in iron lungs, I remember those days, was vaccinated, but then there is SV40.

I get it every year and I never get sick, except for an occasional cold. Haven't had the flu in years.

[Smokin Joe]

I get it every year and I never get sick, except for an occasional cold. Haven't had the flu in years.

I rarely get a cold, either (maybe once a decade).

[Smokin Joe]

Naturalnews = kook site.

This place is overrun with kook nutjobs.

That's the second time you have called your fellow forum posters "kook nutjobs" this morning.
If you have evidence to debunk this stuff, let's see it, please. I welcome rational discussion and solid evidence. What's more, that's a discussion I think this forum can handle and we'd all come out of that more knowledgeable, better informed, and armed with the ability to debunk the nonsense
.
Otherwise, it's just spewing labels with nothing to back it up, and that doesn't do anything to address the issue.

I noticed there were plenty of people this last election who looked at the National Enquirer like it was written by one of the original 12, too, but that could be debunked, if someone could get others to listen (because just saying something nice about the guy those articles smeared got one branded and ignored). So if you can debunk this stuff, do it, but do it with facts.

Even the tabloids get it right every now and then (Gary Hart ring a bell?).

As for conspiracy theories, how about the one where the Secretary of State okays the sale of 20% of the US uranium reserves to Russia for money in her Foundation--or the one where the US DOJ has the BATF order FFL dealers to sell quantities of firearms to known straw buyers to supposedly trace guns going to Mexican Cartels, but has no way to trace the guns until they show up at crime scenes, and wanted to blame the increase of US bought guns on the same FFL dealers and use the pumped up stats to push for more gun control? Or the one where That same SOS was running weapons to terrorist groups through Libya and got an Ambassador killed, and while that was going on the POTUS and the same SOS watch the video feed but didn't authorize air or other assets to support or rescue the Ambassador and other personnel?

Let's not forget the first line of defense the previous administration had for its numerous crimes and abuses of power is that the operations sounded like something out of a bad spy novel--like "conspiracy theories".

[Suppressed]

@Weird Tolkienish Figure @Smokin Joe

Here's the paper:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X17306862
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.vaccine.2017.05.050


Here's the press release from the Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center:
https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/mediaroom/pressreleaselisting/flu-shot-during-pregnancy


As for the other claims in the videos on the page, someone else can track them down. :-)

[Bigun]

I have had two flu shots in my life separated by more than thirty years and both damned near killed me!  There will not be a third!

[Smokin Joe]

@Weird Tolkienish Figure @Smokin Joe

Here's the paper:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X17306862
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.vaccine.2017.05.050


Here's the press release from the Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center:
https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/mediaroom/pressreleaselisting/flu-shot-during-pregnancy


As for the other claims in the videos on the page, someone else can track them down. :-)

Thanks! From the paper at the link, (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X17306862)

Conclusion

In this cohort of pregnant women, receipt of influenza vaccine the previous year predicted higher baseline antibody titers and decreased antibody responses at one month post-vaccination against all influenza strains. However, prior maternal vaccination did not significantly affect either maternal antibody levels at delivery or antibody levels transferred to the neonate.

Back to doing what works for you...

[Fishrrman]

Consider the source of this article...

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

That's the second time you have called your fellow forum posters "kook nutjobs" this morning.
If you have evidence to debunk this stuff, let's see it, please. I welcome rational discussion and solid evidence. What's more, that's a discussion I think this forum can handle and we'd all come out of that more knowledgeable, better informed, and armed with the ability to debunk the nonsense
.
Otherwise, it's just spewing labels with nothing to back it up, and that doesn't do anything to address the issue.

I noticed there were plenty of people this last election who looked at the National Enquirer like it was written by one of the original 12, too, but that could be debunked, if someone could get others to listen (because just saying something nice about the guy those articles smeared got one branded and ignored). So if you can debunk this stuff, do it, but do it with facts.

Even the tabloids get it right every now and then (Gary Hart ring a bell?).

As for conspiracy theories, how about the one where the Secretary of State okays the sale of 20% of the US uranium reserves to Russia for money in her Foundation--or the one where the US DOJ has the BATF order FFL dealers to sell quantities of firearms to known straw buyers to supposedly trace guns going to Mexican Cartels, but has no way to trace the guns until they show up at crime scenes, and wanted to blame the increase of US bought guns on the same FFL dealers and use the pumped up stats to push for more gun control? Or the one where That same SOS was running weapons to terrorist groups through Libya and got an Ambassador killed, and while that was going on the POTUS and the same SOS watch the video feed but didn't authorize air or other assets to support or rescue the Ambassador and other personnel?

Let's not forget the first line of defense the previous administration had for its numerous crimes and abuses of power is that the operations sounded like something out of a bad spy novel--like "conspiracy theories".

Yeah. What he said. Every word of it.

And out comes the old 'Researchers Stunned' again.

Look at just one of the organizations funding 'Researchers'.

https://www.rwjf.org/en/how-we-work/grants-explorer/funding-opportunities.html

RWJF is short for Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. IE, JNJ in drag.

Of course they're stunned. This might, though it probably won't, affect their pots of cash from the mega leftist 'Charitable Foundations'.

http://cleanairquality.blogspot.com/

Guy hasn't posted in a few years, but poke around at what he Did come up with.

[Gefn]

I've gotten a flu shot every year, no problem until last year. Five days with something. Flu, or cold but I was really sick. 103 temp, vomiting, the whole nine yards.

This year no flu shot for me.

Now I was given a shot for pneumonia but that's because I've had it twice in the last 8 years.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

Drug Makers Kept Many Clinical Trial Results A Secret: Study

http://pharmalot.com/drug-makers-kept-many-clinical-trial-results-a-secret-study/

Thirty-five percent of all trial results for 15 drugs that were approved in 2012 by the Food and Drug Administration were not publicly disclosed. And nearly 30 percent of the trials conducted for those drugs failed to meet legal disclosure requirements.

“This confirms that pharmaceutical companies often fall below legal and ethical standards,” said Jennifer Miller, an assistant professor in the Division of Medical Ethics at the NYU School of Medicine and a co-author of the study, (http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/11/e009758.full?sid=ae78878f-12f0-41a0-8852-45a390a9c0a2) which was published in BMJ. The study examined 318 clinical trials involving almost 100,000 participants.

The findings come amid growing clamor from academics and consumer groups to press drug and device makers to release trial data. If research is not published or reported in accessible registries, physicians and patients are prevented from having a complete picture of the risks and benefits of medicines.


Was Swine Flu A False Pandemic? Pharmalot

 From the famous Pharmalot blog by Ed Silverman (formerly a reporter at the Newark Star Ledger):

http://anthraxvaccine.blogspot.com/2010/01/was-swine-flu-false-pandemic-pharmalot.html

    That’s the contention by more than a dozen members of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, which reportedly plans to conduct an inquiry into the influence that drugmakers may have had on the World Health Organization, scientists and governments. A resolution was introduced last month by Wolfgang Wodarg, a member of Germany’s Social Democratic Party who chairs the PACE health committee, and it reads:

    “In order to promote their patented drugs and vaccines against flu, pharmaceutical companies have influenced scientists and official agencies, responsible for public health standards, to alarm governments worldwide. They have made them squander tight health care resources for inefficient vaccine strategies and needlessly exposed millions of healthy people to the risk of unknown side-effects of insufficiently tested vaccines. The birds flu campaign (2005-06) combined with the swine flu campaign seem to have caused a great deal of damage not only to some vaccinated patients and to public health budgets, but also to the credibility and accountability of important international health agencies. The definition of an alarming pandemic must not be under the influence of drugsellers.”

    Wodarg contends that WHO standards forced governments to react by signing contracts and, consequently, taking almost all responsibility thereafter. “In this way, the producers of vaccines are sure of enormous gains without having any financial risks. So they just wait until WHO says ‘pandemic’ and activate the contracts,” Wodarg, who intends to hold an emergency debate this month, tells PharmaTimes. “The victims among millions of needlessly vaccinated people must be protected by their states, and independent scientific clarification should provide evidence and transparency for national and, if necessary, European courts.”

Posted by Meryl Nass, M.D. at 12:07 AM

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

GSK Argentina Fined For Experimenting Vaccines In Babies From Poor Families

http://en.mercopress.com/2012/01/04/gsk-argentina-fined-for-experimenting-vaccines-in-babies-from-poor-families

GlaxoSmithKline Argentina Laboratories company was fined 400.000 Pesos (approx 90.000 dollars) by Judge Marcelo Aguinsky following a report issued by the National Administration of Medicine, Food and Technology (ANMAT) for the killing of 14 babies during illegal lab vaccine trials conducted between 2007 and 2008.

Likewise, two doctors, Héctor Abate, and Miguel Tregnaghi- were fined with 300.000 Pesos (approx 70.000 dollars) each for irregularities during the studies.

The charges included experimenting with human beings, falsifying parental authorizations so babies could participate in vaccine-trials conducted by the laboratory from 2007 to 2008.

Since 2007, 15.000 children under the age of one from Mendoza, San Juan and Santiago del Estero have been included in the research protocol, a statement of what the study is trying to achieve. Babies were recruited from poor families that attended to public hospitals.


But anyone who gets a wild hair about this sort of behavior - like Mike Adams - is a Kook, A Nutjob?

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

That's the second time you have called your fellow forum posters "kook nutjobs" this morning.

You are a bunch of ******. You post from idiot websites, you believe stupid things.

Mod note:  WTF, please stop calling Members names.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

@Weird Tolkienish Figure @Smokin Joe

Here's the paper:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X17306862
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.vaccine.2017.05.050


Here's the press release from the Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center:
https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/mediaroom/pressreleaselisting/flu-shot-during-pregnancy


As for the other claims in the videos on the page, someone else can track them down. :-)

Conclusion from the study:

In this cohort of pregnant women, receipt of influenza vaccine the previous year predicted higher baseline antibody titers and decreased antibody responses at one month post-vaccination against all influenza strains. However, prior maternal vaccination did not significantly affect either maternal antibody levels at delivery or antibody levels transferred to the neonate.

Does that really warrant the alarmist headline? Which may cause people who are perfectly fine getting the flu shot to suffer needlessly?

[musiclady]

I figure any headline with "BOMBSHELL" in it can't be trusted.

Serious journalism doesn't include such sensationalist nonsense.

[Oceander]

Yeah, those evil drug companies.  It’s all a conspiracy to make people sick so they keep buying more fake meds. 

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

Yeah, those evil drug companies.  It’s all a conspiracy to make people sick so they keep buying more fake meds.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

It just more than amuses me that with all the corruption and stink that does get covered concerning Govt and its friends, we still have people who seem to think the medical field/industry is somehow above it all.

[ABX]

Naturalnews = kook site.

This place is overrun with kook nutjobs.

Beat me to it. The last place you should get any medical advice is 'natural news' (or news).

[aligncare]

I have had two flu shots in my life separated by more than thirty years and both damned near killed me!  There will not be a third!

Same here.

There was one time when I had high fever after the series of shots on arriving at basic training. It was bad enough that when I told the TI I was too sick to keep up physically with my buddies, he said if I chose to go to sick bay I might be set back in training. So I opted to stay with my group and just suffer through it.

[truth_seeker]

Whatever the case, I have had neither flu shots nor the flu, while people I know who have had the shots have been sick a lot more. That doesn't prove anything because of all the variables involved, including that 'sickly' people are more likely to get a vaccine, so it is what it is.

As for the folks in iron lungs, I remember those days, was vaccinated, but then there is SV40.

How about polio, diphtheria, small pox, etc.?

[musiclady]

My getting the flu has nothing to do with the shot.

The years I get the shot, I don't get the flu.  The years I don't get the shot, I don't get the flu.

I get lots of sleep and exercise, take Airborne regularly, eat right, don't smoke, and wash my hands frequently.

I didn't get the shot last year.  I AM getting it this year, as well as the pneumonia shot.

Makes no difference either way.

[Restored]

I've gotten a flu shot every year, no problem until last year. Five days with something. Flu, or cold but I was really sick. 103 temp, vomiting, the whole nine yards.

That sounds like a stomach bug, not the flu.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

How about polio, diphtheria, small pox, etc.?

Vaccine Trial Regulation Errors

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_trial

Poliomyelitis, a viral disease, has the potential to damage the central nervous system and leave children paralyzed. Jonas Salk developed an attenuated vaccine to combat the rising prevalence of the disease around the world. In 1955 the results from the preliminary trial of Salk’s vaccine were announced to the general public and within 2 hours it was licensed.[6] Due to a lack of regulations on pharmaceutical manufacturers the vaccine was not always as pure as possible or done correctly to prevent adverse effects associated with inserting an attenuated virus into a healthy person. The famous Cutter Incident resulted in many recipients of the defective polio virus from the Cutter company contracting a virulent strain of polio causing paralysis. Vaccine trials and manufacturing must be handled with extreme caution to avoid infecting recipients or causing adverse effects. The public has not returned to the same confidence level in science and vaccines since the Cutter Incident, which risks public health for everyone.[6]

[Smokin Joe]

You are a bunch of kook nutjobs. You post from idiot websites, you believe stupid things.

If I just jumped into the middle of your discussion and called you a stupid mf'er it really would not add much to the discussion, now, would it?

If this is "kook nutjob" stuff, then you should be able to refute it in a rational and reasonable manner.

Trot out your facts. Source your material. By all means shoot the "wacko conspiracy theory nutjob" stuff down.
 
You don't know me, and you calling me a "kook nutjob" would be funny if you smiled when you said it and I was in a really good mood.

You see, in a physics class many, many years ago (while in grad school on a full NSF ride) I asked the professor a question (actually, it was after class) about the velocity of gravity.

Yeah, silly me.  I figured with E=mc², if that is indeed correct, then a star loses mass as it releases energy. When that mass declines, F_G, which is equal to G(m₁*m₂)/r² would change, too. When that happens, the change in gravitational force should change at a distance after that change is felt close to the star, therefore, gravity is a propagated energy form, and has a velocity of propagation. Made sense to me, and if I was wrong, I wanted a rational explanation why.

I was told by the professor, in plain terms that if I ever brought that 'nutjob' stuff up in his class again (actually it was after class) he'd flunk me, no matter what grade I had earned.

Now, 40 years later, physicists are out looking at gravity waves. Gee, hoodathunkit?

So don't pull that bleep 'nutjob' shit on me. Explain yourself or stick to the fashion threads.

[thackney]

My getting the flu has nothing to do with the shot.

The years I get the shot, I don't get the flu.  The years I don't get the shot, I don't get the flu.

I get lots of sleep and exercise, take Airborne regularly, eat right, don't smoke, and wash my hands frequently.

I didn't get the shot last year.  I AM getting it this year, as well as the pneumonia shot.

Makes no difference either way.

I missed getting the flu shot one year since I've been an adult.  I missed over a week of work with the flu that year. 

I continue to get the shot, going on 3 decades now.  That was the only time I have gotten the flu.  YMMV.

[RoosGirl]

I am always amazed how people lose their minds over the topic of vaccines.

[truth_seeker]

My doctor recommends flu and pneumonia shots, so I get them.

My grandmother had a masters degree in biology and was a professor; my mother has a degree in chemistry.

I was encouraged to be educated, to be interested in science. Our country won wars, put men into space, with science.

And during my youth science eradicated diseases like Polio. (As an adult I learned my paternal grandfather was 1 of 7 children born to their parents, but only 4 made it to adulthood, as 3 died the same week from diphtheria)

[Smokin Joe]

How about polio, diphtheria, small pox, etc.?

I was referring to Polio. Since we are talking about that, it is funny this little problem is okay to discuss if this is the source, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV40, but not okay to discuss if this is: https://www.naturalnews.com/032854_sv40_polio_vaccines.html.  The first link also links the nearly 3 dozen peer reviewed sources in the article, the latter has colorful ads in the margins which means someone is making a living off it. Just like Fox News does every 5-7 minutes with colorful ads.


Regardless, while the conclusions of the early studies were that some of the Polio vaccines may have had a carcinogenic virus along for the ride http://www.sv40foundation.org/CPV-link.html, most of us didn't get Polio, although a couple of my classmates in school had had the virus and suffered its effects (and were handicapped as a result).

Most of the problem from vaccines doesn't come from the actual primary antigenic agent, but appear to stem from squalene (an adjuvant added to retain efficacy and allow more doses to be made from the same amount of viral material), and the preservatives used (like Thiomersol , better known under its trade name "Merthiolate", the mercury bearing orange stuff mommy used to paint your boo-boos with if she didn't use Tincture of Iodine or Hydrogen Peroxide for an antiseptic).  There are people who attribute the squalene in vaccines for everything from the rise of peanut allergies to Gulf War Syndrome And it's okay if some one cites a source like http://www.whale.to/vaccine/adjuvants.html, but is "kook nutjob" if you find it here: https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/08/04/Squalene-The-Swine-Flu-Vaccines-Dirty-Little-Secret-Exposed.aspx

Now, I'll be the first to point out that the colorful sites with the ads in the borders tend to over hype things. Often enough, the conclusions they present aren't completely, or at times, at all supported by the data and sources they cite, and at times the research material on issues is conflicted. Maybe that depends on who funded the study, maybe (and I would hope) not. With the AGW/Global Warming/Climate change bunch, scientific credibility has taken a black eye, and as a scientist, I resent that diminution of my profession by charlatans so I really don't have a problem with wiping the board clear of them.

But, as a scientist I have a problem with labeling something "Kook" or "nutcase", which is not only intellectually lazy, but fails to so much as consider any evidence. If that evidence or the conclusions drawn from it are flawed, that should be demonstrable, and the flawed theories can be discarded, in a reasonable fashion. If not, we can delve deeper, but either way, let's do so with rational arguments rather than emotionalized labels. We can keep in mind that some sites tend to be more hype than truth, but even the most egregious lies have some element of truth in them. If not, that should be evident, too.

As for vaccines, yes some of them have been so effective as to be game changers. Some of those same vaccines have proven lethal in individual cases, and that continues to occur. There is a number of persons who will have adverse reactions to the squalene or other adjuvant present, even fatal reactions. There are people who will have little reaction to the vaccine, and it will have no effect in increasing their immunity either. We're dealing with a population at that level, and it's all statistical. However, jut because every other kid in the room can take penicillin and find it beneficial, doesn't mean MY kid can take it and not have a potentially lethal anaphylactic reaction. Because different people react differently, and the individual is more likely to rely on personal experience than a statistical mean, and more likely to function as an individual rather than the statistical mean, the decision should lie with the individual.

[Smokin Joe]

I missed getting the flu shot one year since I've been an adult.  I missed over a week of work with the flu that year. 

I continue to get the shot, going on 3 decades now.  That was the only time I have gotten the flu.  YMMV.

You hit upon the salient point with "YMMV". That's just it. It does. Not just for me, but for any individual.

The statistical data used to come to a conclusion that a given treatment or preventative is effective is the result of analysis of data gathered from people who all vary in terms of the efficacy of that treatment, for whatever reason. Some will have natural immunity. Others will not, and the vaccine will help. Other factors, like exposure to the pathogen, general health, resistance to the pathogen or prior exposure, nutrition, may all be variables which will affect the efficacy of any given treatment. In a nutshell, what works for you may not for me, any more than I might find a winter coat for Houston adequate for Minot.

But for that same reason, telling everyone they have to have a vaccine isn't such a good idea. The more who have it and find it effective and without adverse effect, the less disease will be present in the population, statistically speaking, but after enough are immune to the pathogen that transmission is hampered enough to prevent major outbreaks and reduce the number of minor ones ("herd immunity").

[thackney]

But for that same reason, telling everyone they have to have a vaccine isn't such a good idea. The more who have it and find it effective and without adverse effect, the less disease will be present in the population, statistically speaking, but after enough are immune to the pathogen that transmission is hampered enough to prevent major outbreaks and reduce the number of minor ones ("herd immunity").

Yup, I have a buddy who doesn't like the idea of taking the flu shot himself.  But he mainly keeps that to himself and encourages everyone around him that they should get a flu shot.  He recognizes it does help keep the spread of the flu down.

[Restored]

The vaccine will not prevent you from getting the flu. My doctor was vaccinated and still got the flu. If you are exposed enough, you will probably get the flu. But the vaccine makes it less hard on you.

Vaccines work. That has been proven. Does the vaccine make you sick? Probably not. It is probably more coincidental. Most people I know confuse a stomach bug with "Stomach flu". Stomach flu doesn't exist. These are two separate things.

I suspect most anti-vaxxers secretly get vaccinated. The only Anti-vaxxer I knew personally did get vaccinations. He didn't want to take the risk.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

You post kooky, nutty garbage from natural news, I'm going to <No, no you're not.>

[Sanguine]

I was referring to Polio. Since we are talking about that, it is funny this little problem is okay to discuss if this is the source, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV40, but not okay to discuss if this is: https://www.naturalnews.com/032854_sv40_polio_vaccines.html.  The first link also links the nearly 3 dozen peer reviewed sources in the article, the latter has colorful ads in the margins which means someone is making a living off it. Just like Fox News does every 5-7 minutes with colorful ads.
....

 

That was beautiful, Joe.

[bigheadfred]

I had a flu shot and a pneumonia shot last fall before I started treatment for my Hep C last year, on the advice of my doctors. They told me that to get either one (of those bugs) in the midst of treatment would likely kill me. First and probably the last time for both shots.

Other than that I had my childhood shots. Anyone remember the "gun" they used for the combined shots?

I got vaccinated, or boosted, for those foreign "summer" diseases before I went overseas in the early 80s...yellow fever, rabies, etc.

Some years I get the flu. Some I don't. I go with the idea of that which doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

There is also "mere" anecdotal evidence from family members on the things they seem to be susceptible to. If they have it, please stay away from me.

I think vaccination is overall beneficial. On the other hand, Americans seem to be more able than most to self-prescribe and overmedicate.

On the hand other than the other hand, I freely admit to having, at times, been a cyberchondriac. On the hand on the arm I grew out of my back living in and around the nuclear radiation from the Idaho National Laboratory, I did correctly diagnose my first DVT. So there. 

As to the matter: Slight of hand (referencing references to kookiness), I covered that in Chapter Two, (starting on) page 32, under the presumptive suggestion titled The "Big Bitch-Little Bitch Paradigm" in my book: Bigheadfred's Incomprehensible and Incoherent Rantology.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

I haven't had a flu shot in decades.

And now that I'm no longer tripping over a rent sharing room mate who believed soap, water, Brillo pads etc. were only to be applied to their own hide and not the rest of place, I don't get the flu.

Just saying.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

Aren't there multiple flu strains each year, with "the flu" shot protecting you against one or more, but potentially not all of them (partially because some strains have never been seen before)?

[Smokin Joe]

You post kooky, nutty garbage from natural news, I'm going to <No, no you're not.>

So if I post the identical material from the NEJM, that's okay? But if my search engine pops up with Natural News and the article is based on the paper published in NEJM that isn't, whether or not Natural News got it right? Does that mean everyone here has to have our posts, even of first hand information, peer reviewed? 

Who made you the gatekeeper of all that's acceptable?

If you can prove it wrong, if you see a problem with it, pony up there, and let's see your information or logic which refutes it.

That's the way real science works.


Otherwise, You got nothing. 

(Because otherwise, half of Republicans out there voted for president based on articles in the National Enquirer, and I can't say how low I generally consider that for an information source... )

[Bigun]

Only had serious flu twice in my life. Both times were after having taken a flu shot.

Not how it works for most I'm sure but that is definitely how it worked for me.

[Smokin Joe]

Only had serious flu twice in my life. Both times were after having taken a flu shot.

Not how it works for most I'm sure but that is definitely how it worked for me.

The positive effect of flu shots, like any other medicine, is a statistical group which is larger than the group which exhibited any of that list of adverse side effects.

Understanding that, some things work for some people, some even work for most people, some don't work at all for a few people, and some even make a few people worse.

It is what works for you. I have never had a flu shot, and never had the flu. 

We are each datum points in the data pool from the use of the medication, but because the statistical mean is one result, there is no guarantee that our individual results will coincide with that, only a higher statistical probability.
Conversely, having one of those undesirable outcomes isn't a sign someone is a 'kook nutjob', they just fall elsewhere in the data. Failure to recognize that the group who have anywhere from no effect to undesirable outcomes does, in fact, exist, is just not looking at reality, and not accepting that each person is a somewhat similar, but genetically unique, biochemical environment.

[thackney]

Aren't there multiple flu strains each year, with "the flu" shot protecting you against one or more, but potentially not all of them (partially because some strains have never been seen before)?

Yes, and there are multiple different flu vaccines available each year as well.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/rr/rr6505a1.htm#T1_down

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

(Because otherwise, half of Republicans out there voted for president based on articles in the National Enquirer, and I can't say how low I generally consider that for an information source... )

Read the conclusion of the study, it does not warrant such an inflammatory article. Media is often ignorant in matters of science but NN takes ignorance to a whole new level.

[Smokin Joe]

Read the conclusion of the study, it does not warrant such an inflammatory article. Media is often ignorant in matters of science but NN takes ignorance to a whole new level.

Read post 11 in this thread where I quoted the conclusion, and and my comments there. I agree, the conclusion from the paper cited did not support the headline, and I said

Back to doing what works for you.

.
Simply stating that the headline is not supported by the information is so much more rational than branding people "Kooks and nutjobs". 

The MSM commonly posts articles under headlines not supported by the information, or which are hyperbole, yet we still use them for sources. As with all media caveat emptor.

[KingsX]

I guess these people were not in line when god was handing out immune systems.

Why would you assume God would "hand out" the same immune system to everyone?

You wouldn't expect that from evolution... why expect it from God ??

[Applewood]

Flu shot every year.  Pneumonia shot every 5 years.  Doctor's orders.  I'm one of those for whom either could be fatal. 

Had a mild bug after my last pneumonia shot.  Lasted 2 days.  Had pneumonia once and it almost killed me.  I'll take the mild symptoms for a few days over the real thing.