Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says

[txradioguy]

Las Vegas gunman Stephen Paddock bought more than 30 weapons and had more than a dozen stashed in his hotel room as he carried out the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history, Fox News learned Monday.

The deadly cache included converted, fully automatic AR-15 style assault rifles with high capacity magazines, according to a law enforcement source. The weaponry suggests Paddock passed numerous FBI background checks.

The source said police found between 11 and 15 guns in his hotel room.

Weapons found were both .308 and .223 caliber, Fox News has learned.

Country music star Jason Aldean was on stage Sunday night at the Route 91 Harvest Festival when Paddock opened fire across the street from inside the Mandalay Bay Hotel and Casino, killing at least 58 people and injuring more than 400.

Paddock killed himself as police stormed his hotel room.

One witness told a local television station that he heard "hundreds of shots." The gunfire was rapid and reportedly confused with firecrackers.

"It sounded like a machine gun," one vendor told Fox News. "It sounded like more than one machine gun."

The .223 is known as a typical AR-15 round. It would stop after hitting one adult, and is common in small game hunting.

The .308 is a heavy, long range bullet, meant for big game like elk and black bears. It is capable of penetrating 2 people. It is commonly used in an AR-10 rifle.

This may explain the number of injuries.

Fully automatic weapons are illegal, but machinists can convert them. YouTube videos also explain how it can be done.

There is one unlikely exception. A machine gun purchased prior to 1986 is eligible for a license from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which issued a tax stamp. But those stamps are almost impossible to acquire.

Some of the weapons were bought in California.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/02/las-vegas-shooting-killer-bought-more-than-30-weapons-source-says.html

[Suppressed]

Fox News laying out the arguments we'll see in the coming days /weeks.

[austingirl]

16 weapons in hotel room, 18 at Mesquite home, explosives found in his car and home, breaching a North Nevada residence now.

[txradioguy]

Fox News laying out the arguments we'll see in the coming days /weeks.

Some of my Liberal friends on FB are starting to go after the NRA...might have to get off FB for a few days.

[XenaLee]

Some of my Liberal friends on FB are starting to go after the NRA...might have to get off FB for a few days.

I no longer have any liberal friends.  Quite intentionally so.

[Smokin Joe]

I no longer have any liberal friends.  Quite intentionally so.

Ditto. I don't have to keep my hands in my pockets so much...

[txradioguy]

I no longer have any liberal friends.  Quite intentionally so.

So here's how the chat went with names removed.

Liberal friend (former soldier as well) - 'U.S. Congressman Henry Cuellar (TX-28) are you going to send back the money the NRA sent you?'

Friend of my friend - Don't think that will happen!

Me - Why? The NRA wasn't behind this.

FOMF- Yes, indirectly the NRA is behind every shooting. Might want to use your brain the think about it!!!

Me -  I'm curious as to how you believe they are behind every shooting? I'm using my brain...*thinks hard*...mmm nope don't see the NRA lurking behind ever shooting. I do see some real nut jobs and some truly evil people committing heinous crimes though.
 

FOMF - I am not going to get a into a pissing contest with you. The ingrained insane gun culture in this country, with the implicit consent of the NRA, is the problem!!


Me - *looks around...shrugs* I didn't realize we were in a urination contest. I simply asked a question. You seem to want to get angry about it and are incapable of a simply logical answer. My apologies for triggering you.The NRA has nothing to do with the fact that the Framers of the Constitution and the Founding Fathers ensured that private citizens will always have the right to keep and own firearms. But hey on a day where we saw the people of our country showed their best helping one another...you go ahead and play Alinsky politics...never let a tragedy go to waste. Good day.

[driftdiver]

I no longer have any liberal friends.  Quite intentionally so.

Once you realize they are ok with killing babies among other things, it's more difficult to consider them friends.

[Sanguine]

I no longer have any liberal friends.  Quite intentionally so.

Me either.   And, I'm not the one who made the decisions.  Leftists are very intolerant.

[austingirl]

My conservative brother left me a phone message last night. He said, "you're not going to like this but I think that any assault weapon should not be in the hands of private citizens." He's right, I don't like it that the gun is the focus and not the perp.

[txradioguy]

My conservative brother left me a phone message last night. He said, "you're not going to like this but I think that any assault weapon should not be in the hands of private citizens." He's right, I don't like it that the gun is the focus and not the perp.

So then by his logic we should ban baseball bats...hammers...anything that can be used as a weapon to assault someone.

Too many people...even gun owners have bought into the myth of the "assault weapon".  There is no such weapon in the military nor sold to private citizens.

We need to quit accepting and adopting the language of the left on these issues.  It helps them win the fight and we don't even realize it.

[austingirl]

So then by his logic we should ban baseball bats...hammers...anything that can be used as a weapon to assault someone.

Too many people...even gun owners have bought into the myth of the "assault weapon".  There is no such weapon in the military nor sold to private citizens.

We need to quit accepting and adopting the language of the left on these issues.  It helps them win the fight and we don't even realize it.

Exactly. I am so disappointed in his lack of logic that I am not calling him back.

[txradioguy]

Exactly. I am so disappointed in his lack of logic that I am not calling him back.

Well you say he's conservative...might not be a bad idea to point out to him how he's fallen into the liberal trap on these weapons...might be doing him a favor he'll appreciate.

[Sanguine]

Exactly. I am so disappointed in his lack of logic that I am not calling him back.

And, in fact, weren't all of the terrorist attacks of the previous week done with something other than guns.  Cars, bombs, knives?

[austingirl]

Well you say he's conservative...might not be a bad idea to point out to him how he's fallen into the liberal trap on these weapons...might be doing him a favor he'll appreciate.

I'm sure I'll be talking to him soon (he is my brother, after all)  and I will try to point that out.

[Rivergirl]

Beginning to wonder if he was part of a bigger plot and the rest of his posse was a no show.
Two broken windows and numerous weapons.
Something wrong with this entire scenario.

[roamer_1]

Beginning to wonder if he was part of a bigger plot and the rest of his posse was a no show.
Two broken windows and numerous weapons.
Something wrong with this entire scenario.

Kinda depends upon the 'weapons'. A lot of that could be pocket knives and nail clippers anymore.

But yeah, hauling all that crap up there doesn't make a lot of sense.

[ABX]

Kinda depends upon the 'weapons'. A lot of that could be pocket knives and nail clippers anymore.

But yeah, hauling all that crap up there doesn't make a lot of sense.

The problem is trying to analyze logic to his actions when if (big IF because we don't know motivation yet) he was schizophrenic (even mild), all his actions may not have a rational reason. For all we know, he may have thought he was arming himself up for the end of the world and thought the concert goers were aliens attacking him. We really don't know, but we can't assume logical reasoning will apply to all his actions. 

[WhatWouldReaganDo]

Beginning to wonder if he was part of a bigger plot and the rest of his posse was a no show.
Two broken windows and numerous weapons.
Something wrong with this entire scenario.

Yes, you'd think there'd be a woman involved to pack that much.

[austingirl]

The problem is trying to analyze logic to his actions when if (big IF because we don't know motivation yet) he was schizophrenic (even mild), all his actions may not have a rational reason. For all we know, he may have thought he was arming himself up for the end of the world and thought the concert goers were aliens attacking him. We really don't know, but we can't assume logical reasoning will apply to all his actions.

Schizophrenics are characterized by disorganized thinking and not capable of elaborate planning. Gambling and real estate investing are great covers for money laundering - but for whom?

[roamer_1]

We really don't know, but we can't assume logical reasoning will apply to all his actions.

That's a really good point, of course.
But to my knowledge, logic/reason is the only tool available to dissect a problem. If reason does not prevail, then all there is left is levels of batsh*t crazy, which I will leave at that.

But since there is thinking involved here - planning - I will endeavor to winnow the available information in order to discover it.

What doesn't 'fit' either leans toward 'crazy' or toward more story that is not yet uncovered.

This is a fairly complicated crime with a horrendous death toll. something like that, from someone not prone to violence, denotes purpose. And he should have made that purpose known, somehow, or there is no point to all this.

No manifesto, stupid over-arming... Either that is senselessness (defied by the thinking involved), or there's more to the story.

[thackney]

That's a really good point, of course.
But to my knowledge, logic/reason is the only tool available to dissect a problem. If reason does not prevail, then all there is left is levels of batsh*t crazy, which I will leave at that.

But since there is thinking involved here - planning - I will endeavor to winnow the available information in order to discover it.

What doesn't 'fit' either leans toward 'crazy' or toward more story that is not yet uncovered.

This is a fairly complicated crime with a horrendous death toll. something like that, from someone not prone to violence, denotes purpose. And he should have made that purpose known, somehow, or there is no point to all this.

No manifesto, stupid over-arming... Either that is senselessness (defied by the thinking involved), or there's more to the story.

Speaking from personal experience, you can darn near drive yourself crazy trying to rationalize the behavior of an irrational person.

[roamer_1]

Speaking from personal experience, you can darn near drive yourself crazy trying to rationalize the behavior of an irrational person.

That's right. but neither can I just write it off to crazy yet, either.

[driftdiver]

That's right. but neither can I just write it off to crazy yet, either.

@roamer_1
Depends what standard of crazy you're trying to meet.

Doing what this guy did is crazy to all normal people.   However I bet he wouldn't meet the legal definition.   He knew what he was doing, took pains to conceal it, planned it, and then apparently killed himself to avoid having to take responsibility for it. 

He was friggen evil.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1
Depends what standard of crazy you're trying to meet.

Doing what this guy did is crazy to all normal people.   However I bet he wouldn't meet the legal definition.   He knew what he was doing, took pains to conceal it, planned it, and then apparently killed himself to avoid having to take responsibility for it. 

He was friggen evil.

That's all true, and all that's missing is the 'why' - And really, that's the only part that matters to me at this point.

[austingirl]

And, in fact, weren't all of the terrorist attacks of the previous week done with something other than guns.  Cars, bombs, knives?

Another good point. Which brings another question to my mind- why didn't Paddock fly one his planes into the crowd?

[ABX]

That's right. but neither can I just write it off to crazy yet, either.

Ted Kaczynski was crazy, but he also was highly intelligent, planned to every detail, had very clear motives and reasoning behind his actions.

But he was crazier than a shithouse rat.

[roamer_1]

Ted Kaczynski was crazy, but he also was highly intelligent, planned to every detail, had very clear motives and reasoning behind his actions.

But he was crazier than a shithouse rat.

Yep, but his crazy had purpose, and he told us what it was. That is strangely missing here.

[Sanguine]

Yep, but his crazy had purpose, and he told us what it was. That is strangely missing here.

I tend to think that the "authorities" have information on that, but for whatever reason, have not seen fit to let us know what it is.

[roamer_1]

I tend to think that the "authorities" have information on that, but for whatever reason, have not seen fit to let us know what it is.

Maybe true, but that in itself is speculation. The question remains.

[Sanguine]

Maybe true, but that in itself is speculation. The question remains.

No, that I think that is not speculation.   

[ABX]

Yep, but his crazy had purpose, and he told us what it was. That is strangely missing here.

So far.. but it is only just a couple of days later. It took a while for to find Anders Breivik's manifesto and he put it online. We don't know how big of an online presence this killer had. There was a facebook profile that FB pulled down quickly (common practice make it only available to LE) but I recall from some screenshots, if they were legit, it was pretty light on details. Kind of like your stereotypical grandpa's FB page.

[roamer_1]

No, that I think that is not speculation.   

Then you have evidence that proves what the LEOs are withholding?

[roamer_1]

So far.. but it is only just a couple of days later. It took a while for to find Anders Breivik's manifesto and he put it online. We don't know how big of an online presence this killer had. There was a facebook profile that FB pulled down quickly (common practice make it only available to LE) but I recall from some screenshots, if they were legit, it was pretty light on details. Kind of like your stereotypical grandpa's FB page.

As an aside, I wonder if the way-back machine has a copy of his FB page...

YES, it may take a while for a manifesto or association to come to light. That is true. But knowing that does nothing to answer the question, which remains.

There is, according to his brother, something new in this man's character, which his family was totally unaware of. His mother being unaware is pretty normal - Nobody want's their mom to know their nefarious side - But his brother?

That change is going to explain a whole lot. And perhaps from that, a motive can be derived.

If he turns out to indeed be that activist in the pink t-shirt, and a direct tie to liberal left is determined, the motivation would be fairly clear.

But right now, a guy who is well off, an avid hunter, and for all appearance, stable in his life, does not suddenly pop a gasket and shoot 600 people.

This is not a dude that is prone to meth or acid induced psychosis. This is not an outright activist. This is not a dude that is a brick short of a Happy Meal.

This was done with premeditation, and some thought. There has to be a reason.

[austingirl]

As an aside, I wonder if the way-back machine has a copy of his FB page...

YES, it may take a while for a manifesto or association to come to light. That is true. But knowing that does nothing to answer the question, which remains.

There is, according to his brother, something new in this man's character, which his family was totally unaware of. His mother being unaware is pretty normal - Nobody want's their mom to know their nefarious side - But his brother?

That change is going to explain a whole lot. And perhaps from that, a motive can be derived.

If he turns out to indeed be that activist in the pink t-shirt, and a direct tie to liberal left is determined, the motivation would be fairly clear.

But right now, a guy who is well off, an avid hunter, and for all appearance, stable in his life, does not suddenly pop a gasket and shoot 600 people.

This is not a dude that is prone to meth or acid induced psychosis. This is not an outright activist. This is not a dude that is a brick short of a Happy Meal.

This was done with premeditation, and some thought. There has to be a reason.

It has been reported that he did not have a FB or Twitter account. No way to know if that is accurate.

He was not very close to his brother according to other reports. And where are his two other siblings and two ex-wives? Nothing from those four people.

There are also conflicting reports about how much of a hunter he was.

That's the problem, so many conflicting reports and so little information. What was found at his Reno home?

I agree,  big question is WHY?

[roamer_1]

He was not very close to his brother according to other reports. And where are his two other siblings and two ex-wives? Nothing from those four people.

The brother's opinion seems genuine in his interview. As was his emotion.

There are also conflicting reports about how much of a hunter he was.

Alright - But lets just say he seems experienced enough to be a part of gun culture. To do as he did is so far removed from that culture as to be wholly unthinkable - Whether hunter or warrior or weekend target shooter. The knowledge he (nearly) undoubtedly possessed speaks entirely against this maniacal act.

That's the problem, so many conflicting reports and so little information. What was found at his Reno home?

I agree,  big question is WHY?

YEP.

[Suppressed]

Speaking from personal experience, you can darn near drive yourself crazy trying to rationalize the behavior of an irrational person.

It's a mistake to assume he was irrational.

Likewise, it's a mistake to assume that if he was rational, there must be a bigger plot.


Why do thugs in the ghetto kill people "for no reason" or "for the thrill"?  We see many of those cases.
Why is it so hard to picture this guy doing it just for the thrill, going out with a bang?


There are many possibilities.

[Suppressed]

Alright - But lets just say he seems experienced enough to be a part of gun culture. To do as he did is so far removed from that culture as to be wholly unthinkable - Whether hunter or warrior or weekend target shooter. The knowledge he (nearly) undoubtedly possessed speaks entirely against this maniacal act.

You say "gun culture" like there's only one.

I've known circles of very reckless, irresponsible idiots who are very into guns...more than I (said as someone who went to Nationals in college, used to teach firearm classes at a university, and is a Lifetime NRA member).  It's a nice fiction we often tell, that all gun owners are responsible, just because the vast, vast majority are.

[DCPatriot]

270 replies 367 retweets 948 likes
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David Burge‏ @iowahawkblog 7h7 hours ago
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Sure, war in Afghanistan is unwinnable, but rounding up all the guns between NY and SF should be a breeze

[thackney]

It's a mistake to assume he was irrational.

We will have to disagree about there being rational thought that leads one to shoot hundreds of people you don't know.

[skeeter]

270 replies 367 retweets 948 likes
Reply 270 Retweet 367 Like 948 Direct message
David Burge‏ @iowahawkblog 7h7 hours ago
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Sure, war in Afghanistan is unwinnable, but rounding up all the guns between NY and SF should be a breeze

We can't round up 25 million illegals but collecting 250 million guns will be no sweat.

[Sanguine]

We will have to disagree about there being rational thought that leads one to shoot hundreds of people you don't know.

So, by extension, Hitler, Stalin and Mao were all irrational/crazy?  I would put them in the evil category.

[thackney]

So, by extension, Hitler, Stalin and Mao were all irrational/crazy?  I would put them in the evil category.

I think so.  I don't believe crazy or irrational negates evil.  Many are both.

[Sanguine]

I think so.  I don't believe crazy or irrational negates evil.  Many are both.

I agree, but irrational tends towards the "crazy" end of the spectrum.  Establishing an aryan Germany or a communist utopia are not irrational seen from the bad guy's point of view. 

[thackney]

I agree, but irrational tends towards the "crazy" end of the spectrum.  Establishing an aryan Germany or a communist utopia are not irrational seen from the bad guy's point of view.

I'm back to saying don't try to rationalize the behavior of irrational people.  Just because it makes sense to them, doesn't mean it makes sense to rational people.

[ABX]

So, by extension, Hitler, Stalin and Mao were all irrational/crazy?  I would put them in the evil category.

Based on their views of other human's life and rights and their own elevated views of their own power, it could easily be argued they were clinical sociopaths.

[Suppressed]

We will have to disagree about there being rational thought that leads one to shoot hundreds of people you don't know.

So you're saying that rationality requires empathy?

[roamer_1]

You say "gun culture" like there's only one.

There pretty much is.

It's a nice fiction we often tell, that all gun owners are responsible, just because the vast, vast majority are.

That some may not comply does not negate the idea that they were exposed to what's proper.

It is very similar to forest survival. The doing of it, and the exposure to how to do it, innately contain the safety aspects. It is reasonable to assume the same in his case.

[thackney]

So you're saying that rationality requires empathy?

I think such a huge disregard for the results to yourself and others isn't rational.

[thackney]

So you're saying that rationality requires empathy?

I think it would be accurate to say evil is a result of lack of empathy.  But a lack of empathy alone isn't evil.  Not carrying about others is not the same as actively trying to cause harm to both individuals and society.