NASA to Stop a Doomsday Supervolcano by Stealing its Heat

[Smokin Joe]

Please don't misunderstand me, I am NOT saying it SHOULD make no difference.

I recognize the reality of the "save the earth" mentality that would drive such a project.  In that perspective, if it is remotely economically feasible in commercial applications, it is not a show stopper for such a government project.

You would think they'd sell the electricity to defray the costs, at a minimum. But then, we haven't talked about permits for erecting high tension lines to get that electricity to market...which would likely be opposed, too.

[Smokin Joe]

How does that work with residential applications?  We briefly looked at geothermal when we built our house a few years ago, but it ended up being too cost-prohibitive.  I don't recall any info on waste-water disposal, though.

Residential applications tend to be closed loop systems which have no fluid contact with the ground, only heat exchange from the ground to the fluid, and in the heat exchanger to the air or to surfaces (usually floors).

[Polly Ticks]

Residential applications tend to be closed loop systems which have no fluid contact with the ground, only heat exchange from the ground to the fluid, and in the heat exchanger to the air or to surfaces (usually floors).

Thanks.  That explains why I didn't see anything in the brochures about disposal, then.   ^-^

[Smokin Joe]

Thanks.  That explains why I didn't see anything in the brochures about disposal, then.   ^-^

Yep. If the fluid in the thermal coils gets out, that is unintentional.

[Oceander]

Yep. If the fluid in the thermal coils gets out, that is unintentional.

An unplanned excursion. 

[bigheadfred]

Contaminated waste water disposal will be somewhat of an issue here. The watershed--the Snake River and its aquifer is the lifeblood for all of southern Idaho ag and extending until it hits the Columbia. The problem may be solved by the INL (Idaho National Laboratory). It is an interesting idea. The practicality of it as far as cooling the supervolcano is doubtful. I also wonder why this is a NASA project.

[Elderberry]

I also wonder why this is a NASA project.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170817-nasas-ambitious-plan-to-save-earth-from-a-supervolcano

Lying beneath the tranquil settings of Yellowstone National Park in the US lies an enormous magma chamber. It’s responsible for the geysers and hot springs that define the area, but for scientists at Nasa, it’s also one of the greatest natural threats to human civilisation as we know it: a potential supervolcano.

Following an article we published about supervolcanoes last month, a group of Nasa researchers got in touch to share a report previously unseen outside the space agency about the threat – and what could be done about it.

“I was a member of the Nasa Advisory Council on Planetary Defense which studied ways for Nasa to defend the planet from asteroids and comets,” explains Brian Wilcox of Nasa’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) at the California Institute of Technology. “I came to the conclusion during that study that the supervolcano threat is substantially greater than the asteroid or comet threat.”

There are around 20 known supervolcanoes on Earth, with major eruptions occurring on average once every 100,000 years. One of the greatest threats an eruption may pose is thought to be starvation, with a prolonged volcanic winter potentially prohibiting civilisation from having enough food for the current population. In 2012, the United Nations estimated that food reserves worldwide would last 74 days.

When Nasa scientists came to consider the problem, they found that the most logical solution could simply be to cool a supervolcano down. A volcano the size of Yellowstone is essentially a gigantic heat generator, equivalent to six industrial power plants. Yellowstone currently leaks about 60-70% of the heat coming up from below into the atmosphere, via water which seeps into the magma chamber through cracks. The remainder builds up inside the magma, enabling it to dissolve more and more volatile gases and surrounding rocks. Once this heat reaches a certain threshold, then an explosive eruption is inevitable.

But if more of the heat could be extracted, then the supervolcano would never erupt. Nasa estimates that if a 35% increase in heat transfer could be achieved from its magma chamber, Yellowstone would no longer pose a threat. The only question is how?

One possibility is to simply increase the amount of water in the supervolcano. But from a practical perspective, it would likely be impossible to convince politicians to sanction such an initiative.

“Building a big aqueduct uphill into a mountainous region would be both costly and difficult, and people don’t want their water spent that way,” Wilcox says. “People are desperate for water all over the world and so a major infrastructure project, where the only way the water is used is to cool down a supervolcano, would be very controversial.”

Instead Nasa have conceived a very different plan. They believe the most viable solution could be to drill up to 10km down into the supervolcano, and pump down water at high pressure. The circulating water would return at a temperature of around 350C (662F), thus slowly day by day extracting heat from the volcano. And while such a project would come at an estimated cost of around $3.46bn (£2.69bn), it comes with an enticing catch which could convince politicians to make the investment.{/quote]

[bigheadfred]

Thanks for clearing that up, @Elderberry.

Nasa’s scientists are hoping that their blueprints will encourage more practical scientific discussion and debate for tackling the threat

[Cyber Liberty]

Contaminated waste water disposal will be somewhat of an issue here. The watershed--the Snake River and its aquifer is the lifeblood for all of southern Idaho ag and extending until it hits the Columbia. The problem may be solved by the INL (Idaho National Laboratory). It is an interesting idea. The practicality of it as far as cooling the supervolcano is doubtful. I also wonder why this is a NASA project.

NASA is in to Earth Science now.  Right after Muslim Outreach.  (You know I am not kidding.)

[Joe Wooten]

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170817-nasas-ambitious-plan-to-save-earth-from-a-supervolcano

Lying beneath the tranquil settings of Yellowstone National Park in the US lies an enormous magma chamber. It’s responsible for the geysers and hot springs that define the area, but for scientists at Nasa, it’s also one of the greatest natural threats to human civilisation as we know it: a potential supervolcano.

Following an article we published about supervolcanoes last month, a group of Nasa researchers got in touch to share a report previously unseen outside the space agency about the threat – and what could be done about it.

“I was a member of the Nasa Advisory Council on Planetary Defense which studied ways for Nasa to defend the planet from asteroids and comets,” explains Brian Wilcox of Nasa’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) at the California Institute of Technology. “I came to the conclusion during that study that the supervolcano threat is substantially greater than the asteroid or comet threat.”

There are around 20 known supervolcanoes on Earth, with major eruptions occurring on average once every 100,000 years. One of the greatest threats an eruption may pose is thought to be starvation, with a prolonged volcanic winter potentially prohibiting civilisation from having enough food for the current population. In 2012, the United Nations estimated that food reserves worldwide would last 74 days.

When Nasa scientists came to consider the problem, they found that the most logical solution could simply be to cool a supervolcano down. A volcano the size of Yellowstone is essentially a gigantic heat generator, equivalent to six industrial power plants. Yellowstone currently leaks about 60-70% of the heat coming up from below into the atmosphere, via water which seeps into the magma chamber through cracks. The remainder builds up inside the magma, enabling it to dissolve more and more volatile gases and surrounding rocks. Once this heat reaches a certain threshold, then an explosive eruption is inevitable.

But if more of the heat could be extracted, then the supervolcano would never erupt. Nasa estimates that if a 35% increase in heat transfer could be achieved from its magma chamber, Yellowstone would no longer pose a threat. The only question is how?

One possibility is to simply increase the amount of water in the supervolcano. But from a practical perspective, it would likely be impossible to convince politicians to sanction such an initiative.

“Building a big aqueduct uphill into a mountainous region would be both costly and difficult, and people don’t want their water spent that way,” Wilcox says. “People are desperate for water all over the world and so a major infrastructure project, where the only way the water is used is to cool down a supervolcano, would be very controversial.”

Instead Nasa have conceived a very different plan. They believe the most viable solution could be to drill up to 10km down into the supervolcano, and pump down water at high pressure. The circulating water would return at a temperature of around 350C (662F), thus slowly day by day extracting heat from the volcano. And while such a project would come at an estimated cost of around $3.46bn (£2.69bn), it comes with an enticing catch which could convince politicians to make the investment.{/quote]

Bureaucratic creep. A well known side effect of a mature bureaucracy.

[Sanguine]

In 2012, the United Nations estimated that food reserves worldwide would last 74 days.

Presumably that's an average, worldwide.  Interesting number.  @Victoria33, do you know anything about this?

[Joe Wooten]

Presumably that's an average, worldwide.  Interesting number.  @Victoria33, do you know anything about this?

I think that is a worldwide average. With Just-in-time logistics, most US cities have only a week or two supply at any one time.

[bigheadfred]

Bureaucratic creep. A well known side effect of a mature bureaucracy.

When that turkey dies there are going to be chit, guts, and feathers everywhere.

[bigheadfred]

Presumably that's an average, worldwide.  Interesting number.  @Victoria33, do you know anything about this?

Cut off the water and the food doesn't matter.

[Sanguine]

Cut off the water and the food doesn't matter.

True.

I was wondering about the food though, because distribution is always a problem.  Wheat in a silo in Iowa won't benefit very many people in a SHTF situation.

[bigheadfred]

True.

I was wondering about the food though, because distribution is always a problem.  Wheat in a silo in Iowa won't benefit very many people in a SHTF situation.

True.

 And when you go worldwide, what do they count as food?   

[Cyber Liberty]

Well, this thread went South fast.  Good work, Fred.

[Smokin Joe]

I think that is a worldwide average. With Just-in-time logistics, most US cities have only a week or two supply at any one time.

You didn't dot and carry for the long pork. Yes, it would come to that, I am afraid, and probably quicker than we think.

[Smokin Joe]

Well, this thread went South fast.  Good work, Fred.

Watch that weird food guy who goes everywhere and eats most things that move and many that don't.

[bigheadfred]

You didn't dot and carry for the long pork. Yes, it would come to that, I am afraid, and probably quicker than we think.

From what I am seeing the zombie apocalypse would never happen. There wouldn't be zombies everywhere. They would quickly die off. Of the millions they could feed on, there are very few with any brains....

[Cyber Liberty]

Watch that weird food guy who goes everywhere and eats most things that move and many that don't.

I knew a kid who would eat anything for fifty cent.

[Smokin Joe]

I knew a kid who would eat anything for fifty cent.

What happened to him?

[Polly Ticks]

I knew a kid who would eat anything for fifty cent.

You must be fancy folk.  The kid in our neighborhood would do it for a dime.

[bigheadfred]

I knew a kid who would eat anything for fifty cent.

How much did you make?

[Cyber Liberty]

How much did you make?

Tree fiddy.  I was his agent.