NASA to Stop a Doomsday Supervolcano by Stealing its Heat

[Machiavelli]

Avery Thompson
Popular Mechanics
August 18, 2017

Beneath Yellowstone National Park is a giant volcano. The heat from this volcano powers all of the park's famous geysers and hot springs, so most tourists probably don't worry about having tons of hot magma under their feet. But perhaps they should: The Yellowstone supervolcano is a disaster waiting to happen.

The supervolcano erupts about every 600,000 years, and it's been about that long since the last eruption. That means the volcano could erupt any day now, and if it does it'll send enough dust and ash into the sky to blot out the sun for years, along with blowing a 25-mile-wide crater in the western U.S. That's why a group of NASA scientists and engineers are developing a plan to prevent an eruption by stealing the volcano's heat...

NASA's plan is to drill a hole into the side of the volcano and pump water through it. When the water comes back out, it'll be heated to over 600 degrees, slowly cooling the volcano. The team hopes that given enough time, this process will take enough heat from the volcano to prevent it from ever erupting...

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[Oceander]

So we build a geothermal power plant. 

[Cyber Liberty]

What could possibly go wrong?

[GtHawk]

What could possibly go wrong?

Well, we might not have to worry about global warming for a while

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Beneath Yellowstone National Park is a giant volcano. The heat from this volcano powers all of the park's famous geysers and hot springs, so most tourists probably don't worry about having tons of hot magma under their feet. But perhaps they should: The Yellowstone supervolcano is a disaster waiting to happen.

The supervolcano erupts about every 600,000 years, and it's been about that long since the last eruption. That means the volcano could erupt any day now, and if it does it'll send enough dust and ash into the sky to blot out the sun for years, along with blowing a 25-mile-wide crater in the western U.S. That's why a group of NASA scientists and engineers are developing a plan to prevent an eruption by stealing the volcano's heat...

NASA's plan is to drill a hole into the side of the volcano and pump water through it. When the water comes back out, it'll be heated to over 600 degrees, slowly cooling the volcano. The team hopes that given enough time, this process will take enough heat from the volcano to prevent it from ever erupting...

Seawater placed in contact with magma is how Krakatoa, the largest explosion ever witnessed by historians, occurred.  From what I have read, the Yellowstone volcano is many times the size of Krakatoa.

The initial explosion ruptured the magma chamber and allowed sea water to contact the hot lava. The result is known as a phreatomagmatic event. The water flash-boiled, creating a cushion of superheated steam that carried the pyroclastic flows up to 25 miles (40 km) at speeds in excess of 62 mph (100 kph). The eruption has been assigned a rating of 6 on the Volcanic Explosion Index and is estimated to have had the explosive force of 200 megatons of TNT. (For purposes of comparison, the bomb that devastated Hiroshima had a force of 20 kilotons. The Mount St. Helens explosion of 1980 had a VEI of 5.)
https://www.livescience.com/28186-krakatoa.html

[bigheadfred]

I have a thought. Try it first on something a little smaller. AS FAR AWAY FROM ME AS THEY CAN GET.

[Elderberry]

http://www.thinkgeoenergy.com/cooling-down-a-supervolcano-and-generate-geothermal-power-a-possible-win-win/

Nasa, believes “the most viable solution could be to drill up to 10km down into the supervolcano, and pump down water at high pressure. The circulating water would return at a temperature of around 350 degrees Celsius  (662 F), thus slowly day by day extracting heat from the volcano. And while such a project would come at an estimated cost of around $3.46 bn (GBP 2.69 bn), it comes with an enticing catch which could convince politicians to make the investment.”

“Yellowstone currently leaks around 6GW in heat,” says Brian Wilcox of Nasa’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) at the California Institute of Technology. “Through drilling in this way, it could be used to create a geothermal plant, which generates electric power at extremely competitive prices of around $0.10/kWh. You would have to give the geothermal companies incentives to drill somewhat deeper and use hotter water than they usually would, but you would pay back your initial investment, and get electricity which can power the surrounding area for a period of potentially tens of thousands of years. And the long-term benefit is that you prevent a future supervolcano eruption which would devastate humanity.”

[bigheadfred]

Ok ok ok I take it back.

It is a fan tas tic idea. Let her rip.

[Oceander]

Seawater placed in contact with magma is how Krakatoa, the largest explosion ever witnessed by historians, occurred.  From what I have read, the Yellowstone volcano is many times the size of Krakatoa.

I doubt if it would involve uncontrolled exposure to massive quantities of water, seawater or otherwise.

[bigheadfred]

I doubt if it would involve uncontrolled exposure to massive quantities of water, seawater or otherwise.

I wonder where they want to place this so it doesn't ruin my view of all the Chinese tourists????

[Smokin Joe]

Considering the EPA couldn't drill a well well enough constructed to test for frac contamination, I'd hope they would leave this to professionals.

[bigheadfred]

Considering the EPA couldn't drill a well well enough constructed to test for frac contamination, I'd hope they would leave this to professionals.

I gotta ask. Who in the heck has any experience drilling into supervolcanoes?

[Smokin Joe]

I gotta ask. Who in the heck has any experience drilling into supervolcanoes?

No one I know of, but there are those who drill wells for geothermal power. They are the people I was referring to.

My concern is that cooling the magma chamber may just cause more pressure to build and a new outlet to form.

[bigheadfred]

No one I know of, but there are those who drill wells for geothermal power. They are the people I was referring to.

My concern is that cooling the magma chamber may just cause more pressure to build and a new outlet to form.

Well, if there was any justice, it would form that outlet under DC. nah. nevermind.  Even a supervolcano couldn't light up those asses.

[GtHawk]

I gotta ask. Who in the heck has any experience drilling into supervolcanoes?

I don't know but thae last time it happened we needed this guy to straighten it out.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X84V81FuC7M

And I hope that's just as realistic as NASA really trying this.

[bigheadfred]

I don't know but thae last time it happened we needed this guy to straighten it out.

And I hope that's just as realistic as NASA really trying this.

We are DOOMED.

[ShadowAce]

Silly me.  I thought it was pressure that caused eruptions, not heat.

[thackney]

I gotta ask. Who in the heck has any experience drilling into supervolcanoes?

Related experience perhaps:

Iceland drills hottest hole to tap into energy of molten magma
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2109872-iceland-drills-hottest-hole-to-tap-into-energy-of-molten-magma/
21 October 2016

Drilling into hot rocks to tap geothermal energy is one thing. Drilling deep enough to tap the energy from magma oozing into volcanoes is quite another, offering a massive increase in the potential to exploit Earth’s inner heat.

That is the task of a rig now drilling 5 kilometres into the rugged landscape of old lava flows in Reykjanes, at the south-west corner of Iceland. Drilling began on 12 August.

By the end of the year, the Iceland Deep Drilling Project (IDDP) hopes to have created the hottest hole in the world, hitting temperatures anywhere between 400 and 1000 °C.

- - - - - - -

The drilling of the Iceland Deep Drilling Project geothermal well at Reykjanes has been successfully completed.
https://iddp.is/
Feb 1, 2017

A significant milestone has been reached in the Iceland Deep Drilling Project at the Reykjanes Peninsula in Iceland when drilling of the IDDP-2 well was completed on  the 25th of January at 4,659 meters depth. All of the initial targets were reached.  These targets were to drill deep, extract drill cores, measure the temperature and search for permeability. Temperature at the bottom of the well has already been measured at 427°C, with fluid pressure of 340 bars, drill cores were retrieved, and the rocks appear to be permeable at depth. It´s clear that the bottom of the well reached fluids at supercritical conditions, so that the main drilling phase objective of the project has been achieved.  The drilling operation took 176 days since we began the drilling operation 11th August 2016.

800°F = 427°C

[bigheadfred]

Related experience perhaps:

Iceland drills hottest hole to tap into energy of molten magma
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2109872-iceland-drills-hottest-hole-to-tap-into-energy-of-molten-magma/
21 October 2016

That is great. Really encouraging, in fact. I doubt they could really cause any harm here. I probably should be more worried about North Korea hitting it with a megaton bomb.

I gotta wonder about it's long-term viability. Given the amount of earthquake activity around and in Yellowstone. Most of the quakes and swarms are small, to be sure, but I wonder how much of that it would take to disrupt a deep well?

[Just_Victor]

Of course, this plan is the definition of "long-term." In order to siphon off enough heat to neutralize the threat of the volcano, the geothermal generator would have to be run continuously for hundreds or thousands of years.

I'm betting the range is in multiple thousands of years.  It might be a great geothermal generator, but I'll bet it has no effect on the volcano.

[thackney]

That is great. Really encouraging, in fact. I doubt they could really cause any harm here. I probably should be more worried about North Korea hitting it with a megaton bomb.

I gotta wonder about it's long-term viability. Given the amount of earthquake activity around and in Yellowstone. Most of the quakes and swarms are small, to be sure, but I wonder how much of that it would take to disrupt a deep well?

California has lots of Geothermal Wells and lots of Earthquakes.  They are not this deep, but I see this likely not to be a major problem.

[Polly Ticks]

It's actually an interesting article/discussion ... but the headline just screams "Comic Book".

And my personal Supervillain Name (http://supervillain.namegeneratorfun.com/) almost fits rights in.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[driftdiver]

I'm gonna start bailing out the ocean with a teaspoon.  I bet I finish first.

But seriously, lets say you lower the temperature of this volcano.  Wouldn't that heat be replaced by other heat at the center of the earth.   If you did enough you'd turn the center of the earth into a solid which would probably have dire consequences.  I know that won't happen but the science doesn't seem to even hold up to my 7th grade understanding.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

California has lots of Geothermal Wells and lots of Earthquakes.  They are not this deep, but I see this likely not to be a major problem.

I dunno.  If there is solid evidence that earthquakes can be caused by disposal of water underground such as what's happening in Oklahoma, I wonder on the advisability of intentionally developing steam to occur underground in an area that is certainly prone to erupt cataclistically?  Steam is a lot more violent than water as it expands greatly being a gas.

[thackney]

I dunno.  If there is solid evidence that earthquakes can be caused by disposal of water underground such as what's happening in Oklahoma, I wonder on the advisability of intentionally developing steam to occur underground in an area that is certainly prone to erupt cataclistically?  Steam is a lot more violent than water as it expands greatly being a gas.

That would depend on the pressures at the depth they plan.  The Iceland Deep Drilling Project geothermal well at Reykjanes was nearly 5,000 psi and 800°F, well above the critical point. 

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/critical-point-water-steam-d_834.html

[bigheadfred]

There is more to this. They will need water. Constantly. I'd like to see the studies on where and how that water will be supplied. Another thing is I presume this setup will be on the western side of the Park. From the way the wind blows, the environmental impact, even and/or however slight, on the Park, will probably set some bees to buzzing.

[driftdiver]

Related experience perhaps:

Iceland drills hottest hole to tap into energy of molten magma
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2109872-iceland-drills-hottest-hole-to-tap-into-energy-of-molten-magma/
21 October 2016

Drilling into hot rocks to tap geothermal energy is one thing. Drilling deep enough to tap the energy from magma oozing into volcanoes is quite another, offering a massive increase in the potential to exploit Earth’s inner heat.

That is the task of a rig now drilling 5 kilometres into the rugged landscape of old lava flows in Reykjanes, at the south-west corner of Iceland. Drilling began on 12 August.

By the end of the year, the Iceland Deep Drilling Project (IDDP) hopes to have created the hottest hole in the world, hitting temperatures anywhere between 400 and 1000 °C.

- - - - - - -

The drilling of the Iceland Deep Drilling Project geothermal well at Reykjanes has been successfully completed.
https://iddp.is/
Feb 1, 2017

A significant milestone has been reached in the Iceland Deep Drilling Project at the Reykjanes Peninsula in Iceland when drilling of the IDDP-2 well was completed on  the 25th of January at 4,659 meters depth. All of the initial targets were reached.  These targets were to drill deep, extract drill cores, measure the temperature and search for permeability. Temperature at the bottom of the well has already been measured at 427°C, with fluid pressure of 340 bars, drill cores were retrieved, and the rocks appear to be permeable at depth. It´s clear that the bottom of the well reached fluids at supercritical conditions, so that the main drilling phase objective of the project has been achieved.  The drilling operation took 176 days since we began the drilling operation 11th August 2016.

800°F = 427°C

According to Al Gore the temp at the center of the earth is like a million degrees.

[Cyber Liberty]

There is more to this. They will need water. Constantly. I'd like to see the studies on where and how that water will be supplied. Another thing is I presume this setup will be on the western side of the Park. From the way the wind blows, the environmental impact, even and/or however slight, on the Park, will probably set some bees to buzzing.

It could go poorly for trespassing California tourists.

[thackney]

There is more to this. They will need water. Constantly. I'd like to see the studies on where and how that water will be supplied. Another thing is I presume this setup will be on the western side of the Park. From the way the wind blows, the environmental impact, even and/or however slight, on the Park, will probably set some bees to buzzing.

While they will need water, it can be a closed loop system that does not constantly consume water.

[Sanguine]

It's actually an interesting article/discussion ... but the headline just screams "Comic Book".

And my personal Supervillain Name (http://supervillain.namegeneratorfun.com/) almost fits rights in.

That's cute.  Not so sure about mine:

Phantom The Living Planet

You were a pop star with a successful career until a rival had you murdered! Now you have risen from the grave to exact vengeance upon your killer, and all who dared not to appreciate your genius! Transformation into Mist – You can change yourself into a mist-like form at will, enabling you to pass through any barrier!
and...
Planetary Avatar – You have the ability to tap into the Gaia Worldspirit and let loose the forces locked within the molten core of the planet! Now, with the aid of your trusty henchman Hatchet-Face and your army of tame vampires, you bring terror and chaos to the streets of Delhi!

[Polly Ticks]

That's cute.  Not so sure about mine:

Are you kidding??

You have the ability to tap into the Gaia Worldspirit and let loose the forces locked within the molten core of the planet!

Yours is way more topic-appropriate than mine.  Although I also notice that you appear to have stolen my henchman ...  what villainous villainy is this?

[IsailedawayfromFR]

While they will need water, it can be a closed loop system that does not constantly consume water.

I've said this before, but even if a closed loop, my experience with geothermal wells and projects is that the water returning is so full of contaminants such as heavy metals, its removal and safe disposal is a paramount venture.

For 'scientists' to intentionally create a lot of this tainted water stretches the mind on what value is being created.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

While they will need water, it can be a closed loop system that does not constantly consume water.

Am also musing what happens when 100% of that water pumped in does not return.

Seems a steam chest will be building up to accelerate the timing of the next Yellowstone cataclysm.

[Smokin Joe]

Are you kidding??

Yours is way more topic-appropriate than mine.  Although I also notice that you appear to have stolen my henchman ...  what villainous villainy is this?

I think the henchmen are moonlighting...

The Doctor Of Nightmares
You were a fictional character, a villain from a comic book – until a disruption in reality catapulted you into reality! Now, you find yourself in a world with far more possibilities for cruelty and violence than you could have ever dreamed of! Nothing in the world can stop you now! Dream Control – You have the power to enter, explore, manipulate, and control your own or anybody else's dreams! Now, with the aid of your trusty henchman Hatchet-Face and your army of worrying clowns, you bring terror and chaos to the streets of Cherryville!

That Hatchet-Face gets around....

[Smokin Joe]

I've said this before, but even if a closed loop, my experience with geothermal wells and projects is that the water returning is so full of contaminants such as heavy metals, its removal and safe disposal is a paramount venture.

For 'scientists' to intentionally create a lot of this tainted water stretches the mind on what value is being created.

I guess the question for the chemists is one of whether or not those contaminants have potential commercial value, as a byproduct, and whether they can be removed economically. (Like removing copper from the water at Anaconda).

[thackney]

I've said this before, but even if a closed loop, my experience with geothermal wells and projects is that the water returning is so full of contaminants such as heavy metals, its removal and safe disposal is a paramount venture.

For 'scientists' to intentionally create a lot of this tainted water stretches the mind on what value is being created.

Geothermal exists in a lot of places and has for a lot of years.  I find it hard to believe this is project stopping issue.

[Joe Wooten]

The problem with geothermal power is the minerals in the water. If you use a direct cycle, the flash boilers and turbines eventually get clogged up with mineral deposits and have to be taken down to either clean or replace (those mineral are also highly corrosive). In an indirect cycle, the primary side of the steam generators also get clogged up pretty fast. The heat may be cheap, but the capital costs and maintenance costs are much higher than a nuke plant per kW.

[Sanguine]

I think the henchmen are moonlighting...
That Hatchet-Face gets around....

LOL.  @Polly Ticks that's a fun site.

[Smokin Joe]

Geothermal exists in a lot of places and has for a lot of years.  I find it hard to believe this is project stopping issue.

Around Yellowstone? Don't be so sure. The New World Gold project mine was shut down and it was three valleys away. It's as if there is a 100 mile scenic buffer zone around the whole thing. Don't want the tourists in runamuckas to see that people actually dig stuff out of the ground for a living.

[Polly Ticks]

That Hatchet-Face gets around....

He sure does.  He must be more of a contract henchman than a dedicated henchman.
Either that, or he's working the triple-double-cross.

[Cyber Liberty]

Around Yellowstone? Don't be so sure. The New World Gold project mine was shut down and it was three valleys away. It's as if there is a 100 mile scenic buffer zone around the whole thing. Don't want the tourists in runamuckas to see that people actually dig stuff out of the ground for a living.

Was it because it was "an eyesore" or was it because somebody was "making a buck" in/near a National Park?  We have whole forests off limits to timber harvest for no better reason than to stop anybody from making a buck.

[Smokin Joe]

Was it because it was "an eyesore" or was it because somebody was "making a buck" in/near a National Park?  We have whole forests off limits to timber harvest for no better reason than to stop anybody from making a buck.

It wasn't even in sight of any part of the park, just the approach highways (maybe). Typical of any project that might involve scratching Gaia's back, the greenies were out in force, ignoring the previous gold rushes in Montana's history, which is intertwined with mining ventures from coal and copper to gold and platinum.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Geothermal exists in a lot of places and has for a lot of years.  I find it hard to believe this is project stopping issue.

The places where geothermal has occurred is for a commercial venture, incorporating the disposal of the tainted water.

The venture being proposed is scientific, not commercial.

[thackney]

The places where geothermal has occurred is for a commercial venture, incorporating the disposal of the tainted water.

The venture being proposed is scientific, not commercial.

So since it is likely government (taxpayer) funded, the cost of disposal of tainted water isn't likely to be an issue to stop the project.  There may plenty of other issues to stop the project.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

The problem with geothermal power is the minerals in the water. If you use a direct cycle, the flash boilers and turbines eventually get clogged up with mineral deposits and have to be taken down to either clean or replace (those mineral are also highly corrosive). In an indirect cycle, the primary side of the steam generators also get clogged up pretty fast. The heat may be cheap, but the capital costs and maintenance costs are much higher than a nuke plant per kW.

That was my experiences as well.

Making contact with magma or superheated volcanic rock produces some of the nastiest stuff you can imagine.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

So since it is likely government (taxpayer) funded, the cost of disposal of tainted water isn't likely to be an issue to stop the project.  There may plenty of other issues to stop the project.

We are living in an alternate reality if that makes no difference.

In both cases, we are paying for it.  One is voluntary, one is involuntary.

[Polly Ticks]

So since it is likely government (taxpayer) funded, the cost of disposal of tainted water isn't likely to be an issue to stop the project.  There may plenty of other issues to stop the project.

How does that work with residential applications?  We briefly looked at geothermal when we built our house a few years ago, but it ended up being too cost-prohibitive.  I don't recall any info on waste-water disposal, though.

[thackney]

We are living in an alternate reality if that makes no difference.

In both cases, we are paying for it.  One is voluntary, one is involuntary.

Please don't misunderstand me, I am NOT saying it SHOULD make no difference.

I recognize the reality of the "save the earth" mentality that would drive such a project.  In that perspective, if it is remotely economically feasible in commercial applications, it is not a show stopper for such a government project.

[thackney]

How does that work with residential applications?  We briefly looked at geothermal when we built our house a few years ago, but it ended up being too cost-prohibitive.  I don't recall any info on waste-water disposal, though.

A residential sized unit would not be approaching magma depths.

[Polly Ticks]

A residential sized unit would not be approaching magma depths.

Ok, that makes sense.  So the whole waste-water issue is only pertinent to the magma.  Thanks for the explanation!