These Coloradans say Earth is flat. And gravity’s a hoax. Now, they’re being persecuted.

[ABX]

....He is at the epicenter of a budding movement, one that’s coming for your books, movies, God and mind. They’re thousands strong — perhaps one in every 500 — and have proponents at the highest levels of science, sports, journalism and arts.

They call themselves Flat Earthers. Because they believe Earth — the blue, majestic, spinning orb of life — is as flat as a table.

And they want you to know. .....

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/07/07/colorado-earth-flat-gravity-hoax/

[Wingnut]

What would these weak minded mush for brains individuals do without the interwebs to find other weak minded mush for brains like minded freaks?

Walk around with sandwich boards?

[Cripplecreek]

They should prove the hoax be skydiving without parachutes.

[Cripplecreek]

We've got a least 1 flat earther here at TBR but I don't remember which one of you nuts it is.

[Wingnut]

[Cripplecreek]

“How are we Flat Earthers supposed to explain to our friends the solar eclipse in August?” asked one attendee. The room fell silent. “We’ll have to do more research and get back to you on that.”

*SNORT*

[240B]

Gravity is more than just an idea. It's the Law!

[SunkenCiv]

Some are merely gullible -- see one video, view another and another, look!  Proof!  Yet there is none.

Some are grifters.

[Cripplecreek]

Some are merely gullible -- see one video, view another and another, look!  Proof!  Yet there is none.

Some are grifters.

They always have a desperate need to feel special enough to be privy some great secret.

[INVAR]

I know several sets of congregations and brethren in the Messianic community that are totally given over to this doctrine.

To challenge them using science or mere logical observations/explanations is to be accused of calling God and the bible a liar.

Oh well.  A lot of Christians have a desperate need to have some kind of "new truth" that garners a following of acolytes who make their issue....salvational.

[ABX]

What would these weak minded mush for brains individuals do without the interwebs to find other weak minded mush for brains like minded freaks?

Walk around with sandwich boards?

They've always been around, just not as widespread. They have been found on ham radios and using offset printers in their garages as long as those technologies have been available. Sometimes even in front of chalkboards in college campuses and behind the desks in libraries.

Flat earth nutjobs an be found all around the globe.

[ABX]

We've got a least 1 flat earther here at TBR but I don't remember which one of you nuts it is.

I can take a wild guess. 

[ABX]

They always have a desperate need to feel special enough to be privy some great secret.

Bingo.

The desire to have 'secret knowledge' and feel above others as a mask for other mental issues often.

Reads Foucault's Pendulum.

[the_doc]

“How are we Flat Earthers supposed to explain to our friends the solar eclipse in August?” asked one attendee. The room fell silent. “We’ll have to do more research and get back to you on that.”

*SNORT*

They also cannot account for the direction of all the prevailing winds or for the fact that stars visible in the Northern Hemisphere start to drop and eventually disappear as a traveler heads south or for the fact that the curvature of the earth is apparent when mountains drop out of sight behind the horizon as the observer moves away from them. 

The earth curvature effect has been "explained" by the Flat Earthers' modification of their model to say "Okay, the Earth is a basically flat disk with a gentle curvature."  But this by no means fixes their problem, because it is easy to use the visibility-versus-distance to calculate the radius of curvature of the Earth, and it is not a gentle curvature;  the curvature does not have a huge radius, but obviously has the radius of our spherical Earth. 

Never mind the solar eclipse problem;  the Flat Earthers can't even explain the phases of the moon.

[Cripplecreek]

Bingo.

The desire to have 'secret knowledge' and feel above others as a mask for other mental issues often.

Reads Foucault's Pendulum.

Its the same mindset as those who are sure the government is out to get them for their knowledge of the great secret. In reality the government couldn't care less about most of us and we should be grateful for that fact.

OTOH there are those idiots like Alex Jones who I doubt believes half of the crap he spews. He just does it to con the rubes out of their money. He's also made claims about government being out to get him. If anything, Govt loves clowns like Jones because he leads idiots off on wild goose chases while govt does wrongful crap right out in the open.

[Cripplecreek]

They also cannot account for the direction of all the prevailing winds or for the fact that stars visible in the Northern Hemisphere start to drop and eventually disappear as a traveler heads south or for the fact that the curvature of the earth is apparent when mountains drop out of sight behind the horizon as the observer moves away from them. 

The earth curvature effect has been "explained" by the Flat Earthers' modification of their model to say "Okay, the Earth is a basically flat disk with a gentle curvature."  But this by no means fixes their problem, because it is easy to use the visibility--versus--distance to calculate the radius of curvature of the Earth, and it is not a gentle curvature;  the curvature does not have a huge radius, but obviously has the radius of our spherical Earth. 

Never mind the solar eclipse problem;  the Flat Earthers can't even explain the phases of the moon.

One of the things that has always bothered me is the fact that I've never seen Alpha Centauri.

[roamer_1]

The earth curvature effect has been "explained" by the Flat Earthers' modification of their model to say "Okay, the Earth is a basically flat disk with a gentle curvature."  But this by no means fixes their problem, because it is easy to use the visibility--versus--distance to calculate the radius of curvature of the Earth, and it is not a gentle curvature;  the curvature does not have a huge radius, but obviously has the radius of our spherical Earth. 

I am not a proponent of flat earth, but I will bite on this one.

I have used a spotting scope to watch ships on lake Michigan long after they went 'over the horizon'.
And I have stood on the shore of Flathead Lake and on a clear day, seen the beach at Polson, some 50/60 miles away, with my own eyes.

Neither one should be mathematically possible.

I have also stood upon the very summit of the continental divide, and could detect no curvature looking eastward. One should see a 'falling away' north and south, which is not apparent.

[thackney]

I am not a proponent of flat earth, but I will bite on this one.

I have used a spotting scope to watch ships on lake Michigan long after they went 'over the horizon'.
And I have stood on the shore of Flathead Lake and on a clear day, seen the beach at Polson, some 50/60 miles away, with my own eyes.

Neither one should be mathematically possible.

I have also stood upon the very summit of the continental divide, and could detect no curvature looking eastward. One should see a 'falling away' north and south, which is not apparent.

Flathead Lake is 27.3 miles in the longest direction.

http://flbs.umt.edu/lake/flatheadlake.aspx#Stats

[ABX]

I am not a proponent of flat earth, but I will bite on this one.

I have used a spotting scope to watch ships on lake Michigan long after they went 'over the horizon'.
And I have stood on the shore of Flathead Lake and on a clear day, seen the beach at Polson, some 50/60 miles away, with my own eyes.

Neither one should be mathematically possible.

I have also stood upon the very summit of the continental divide, and could detect no curvature looking eastward. One should see a 'falling away' north and south, which is not apparent.

What you describe is well known, called Fata Morgana, due to a refraction of light (very similar to the mirage effect). When there’s a of warmer air over a layer of cooler air, light is bent by refraction allowing you to see things that would not be visible otherwise. Sometimes the image is inverted as well.  When you look at it with a scope, getting a closer, clearer view, you are seeing the refracted light. Not only could you see the full ship, you may actually see it 'floating'.



Here is a shoreline example appearing higher than it should due to the refraction of light.

[roamer_1]

Flathead Lake is 27.3 miles in the longest direction.

http://flbs.umt.edu/lake/flatheadlake.aspx#Stats

I'll use your numbers. It's still mathematically impossible.

[the_doc]

One of the things that has always bothered me is the fact that I've never seen Alpha Centauri.

One of the more obscure proofs that the Earth is a rotating sphere is the Coriolis effect on long-distance shooting:  I have heard that if we precisely sight in a rifle from west to east at long distance--say, 1000 yards--then shoot east-to-west at 1000 yards, the bullet will hit noticeably low and to the left.

[Cripplecreek]

What you describe is well known, called Fata Morgana, due to a refraction of light (very similar to the mirage effect). When there’s a of warmer air over a layer of cooler air, light is bent by refraction allowing you to see things that would not be visible otherwise. Sometimes the image is inverted as well.  When you look at it with a scope, getting a closer, clearer view, you are seeing the refracted light. Not only could you see the full ship, you may actually see it 'floating'.

When the weather is right Chicago can be seen from the eastern shore of Lake Michigan.

[roamer_1]

What you describe is well known, called Fata Morgana, due to a refraction of light (very similar to the mirage effect). When there’s a of warmer air over a layer of cooler air, light is bent by refraction allowing you to see things that would not be visible otherwise. Sometimes the image is inverted as well.  When you look at it with a scope, getting a closer, clearer view, you are seeing the refracted light. Not only could you see the full ship, you may actually see it 'floating'.

meh.

[roamer_1]

When the weather is right Chicago can be seen from the eastern shore of Lake Michigan.

I know... and Michigan can be seen from Chicago...

[ABX]

When the weather is right Chicago can be seen from the eastern shore of Lake Michigan.

You can actually reproduce this effect yourself if you have a clear, glass lens or even a glass paperweight and something like a big Yoga ball. Tape a penny or something like that on the Yoga ball, then roll the ball away until the penny is just below your line of sight and put the glass paperweight on the top of the ball and look through it. You'll see the penny because the light is bending through the glass.

I saw this demonstration a long time ago, it was pretty cool.

It actually shows, due to the refraction, that there has to be a curve, like a lens, it can't be perfectly flat to appear like this.

[Smokin Joe]

Colorado's government has more serious delusions, but it has been on the road to becoming Californicated in so many other ways, that a few more flakes in the granola aren't really noteworthy.

[ABX]

meh.

Its an elementary school science fair project (described above) but something you also can observe yourself (and have, you just didn't understand it).
Example, this cruise ship isn't floating nor is the water 'higher' there. The light is refracting. It wouldn't work if the earth was flat. The gentle curve and the thickness of the air make it work like a lens.

[ABX]

[Cripplecreek]

You can actually reproduce this effect yourself if you have a clear, glass lens or even a glass paperweight and something like a big Yoga ball. Tape a penny or something like that on the Yoga ball, then roll the ball away until the penny is just below your line of sight and put the glass paperweight on the top of the ball and look through it. You'll see the penny because the light is bending through the glass.

I saw this demonstration a long time ago, it was pretty cool.

It actually shows, due to the refraction, that there has to be a curve, like a lens, it can't be perfectly flat to appear like this.

I've read that due to the density of the atmosphere of Venus that if you could stand on the surface and look around, it would appear that the land was rising in all directions as if you were at the bottom of a bowl.

[roamer_1]

Its an elementary school science fair project (described above) but something you also can observe yourself (and have, you just didn't understand it).
Example, this cruise ship isn't floating nor is the water 'higher' there. The light is refracting. It wouldn't work if the earth was flat. The gentle curve and the thickness of the air make it work like a lens.

I see distortion due to thicker (moist) air against the water all the time. That doesn't mean I am not seeing what I am seeing. I can see the east shore of Flathead lake from the west shore... some 15-20 miles away. Summer air here is remarkably dry. very low humidity, except a foot or two over the water. Boats in the water look like they are floating in the air. Yet I can get into a boat and travel to the east shore, never losing sight, and never losing aspect.

Now, if it is humid, and I can still see the other shore, it will look wavy, and maybe even distorted. I am less likely to see the other shore in humid conditions, and more likely to see it in dry conditions. If it was indeed refraction, or a lens effect, that should be the other way around, I think.

[Suppressed]

One of the things that has always bothered me is the fact that I've never seen Alpha Centauri.

I think I just made an addition ...

[Snarknado]

This might be a relatively recent phenomenon. Back when I had a CRT monitor, I clearly remember noticing a slight curvature when viewing Youtube videos of the world. When I look at those same videos now, the images appear to be perfectly flat...

[roamer_1]

This might be a relatively recent phenomenon. Back when I had a CRT monitor, I clearly remember noticing a slight curvature when viewing Youtube videos of the world. When I look at those same videos now, the images appear to be perfectly flat...

A fisheye lens most of the time... I just watched a Mythbusters episode purporting to bust the flat-earthers where the stars went up in a fighter jet or some such to film the earth's curvature... Any idiot can see they're using a fisheye lens!

Meanwhile, Rob Skiba debunks the episode by sending a cam up on a weather balloon - with a 40mm lens IIRC... No curve.

It is idiocy like that that gives flat-earthers fodder.

[Oceander]

Flat-earthers are amongst that very small group of people who deserve ridicule without mercy. 

[kevindavis007]

One of the things that has always bothered me is the fact that I've never seen Alpha Centauri.

I would like to see Alpha Centauri, but Earth is still close..

[andy58-in-nh]

Flat-earthers are amongst that very small group of people who deserve ridicule without mercy.

I'm sure they would go to the ends of the Earth to disagree with you.

And then, fall off.

[Smokin Joe]

I'm sure they would go to the ends of the Earth to disagree with you.

And then, fall off.

"I Told You So"

 

[Free Vulcan]

I have a FB friend who is a libertarian and gets many flat earther people friending her. I have asked every one how, if the earth is flat, then why is it night some places, day others, and why our seasons change. Never have gotten a single answer.

If you think flat earth is bad, there are those who believe that the sun, moon, planets, and all the stars are actually in the atmosphere and NASA is covering it up.

[Smokin Joe]

I have a FB friend who is a libertarian and gets many flat earther people friending her. I have asked every one how, if the earth is flat, then why is it night some places, day others, and why our seasons change. Never have gotten a single answer.

If you think flat earth is bad, there are those who believe that the sun, moon, planets, and all the stars are actually in the atmosphere and NASA is covering it up.

Oh Hell, that's nothing. There is a whole cult of people running around who believe that driving your car will cause the planet to warm up and the oceans to rise, and that we're all doomed!

[Fishrrman]

"Flat earthers".
Flat brain waves!

[Wingnut]

Oh Hell, that's nothing. There is a whole cult of people running around who believe that driving your car will cause the planet to warm up and the oceans to rise, and that we're all doomed!

Say What?!

[Mom MD]

I know several sets of congregations and brethren in the Messianic community that are totally given over to this doctrine.

To challenge them using science or mere logical observations/explanations is to be accused of calling God and the bible a liar.

Oh well.  A lot of Christians have a desperate need to have some kind of "new truth" that garners a following of acolytes who make their issue....salvational.

Except that in Job, arguably the oldest book in the Bible, the earth is described as an orb.  It appears God isn't scientifically ignorant after all 

[Mom MD]

Oh Hell, that's nothing. There is a whole cult of people running around who believe that driving your car will cause the planet to warm up and the oceans to rise, and that we're all doomed!

[Mom MD]

Colorado's government has more serious delusions, but it has been on the road to becoming Californicated in so many other ways, that a few more flakes in the granola aren't really noteworthy.

Combine that with legalized marijuana and there are a lot of things a mile hi in Colorado.  I don't recognize my state anymore.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Combine that with legalized marijuana and there are a lot of things a mile hi in Colorado.  I don't recognize my state anymore.

 

I worked down near Rifle and Collbran in the early 90s: did a couple of horizontal wells for Oryx. It was a great area west of Glenwood Springs, over to the border, Grand Junction, Rio Blanco, Dry Mesa, and the Grand Mesa, up to Craig and Meeker. Really neat area for a Geologist to go knock around in. Aspen,  unfortunately had a Liberal bent, but the 'little towns had great people and the countryside is beautiful. Too bad the politics have gone Liberal. It's wrecking a really nice state.

[Mom MD]

I worked down near Rifle and Collbran in the early 90s: did a couple of horizontal wells for Oryx. It was a great area west of Glenwood Springs, over to the border, Grand Junction, Rio Blanco, Dry Mesa, and the Grand Mesa, up to Craig and Meeker. Really neat area for a Geologist to go knock around in. Aspen,  unfortunately had a Liberal bent, but the 'little towns had great people and the countryside is beautiful. Too bad the politics have gone Liberal. It's wrecking a really nice state.

Yup.  But at least we still have the mountains!

[Smokin Joe]

Yup.  But at least we still have the mountains!

I brought a few bits home with me...

[roamer_1]

Yup.  But at least we still have the mountains!

If it is anything like here (which it is), 10 miles outta town is where you start meeting actual Coloradans.

[Smokin Joe]

If it is anything like here (which it is), 10 miles outta town is where you start meeting actual Coloradans.

The little towns weren't bad in the west end. (a few hundred folks, tops), and Grand Junction was okay.

[Silver Pines]

“How are we Flat Earthers supposed to explain to our friends the solar eclipse in August?” asked one attendee. The room fell silent. “We’ll have to do more research and get back to you on that.”

*SNORT*

@Cripplecreek

They're that stupid and I'm supposed to care that they're "persecuted"?

Yeah, not so much.