Senate Republicans unveil 'discussion draft' of health care bill

[INVAR]

INVAR,  you have got to be the single most dishonest person on this board.

You are PROJECTING yourself.... yet again.

And the majority on this board know that and have called you out for it.

[Jazzhead]

   6 pages into this Thread and no one's mentioned TORT REFORM, conspicuously absent in both the House and Senate versions and which was included in Sen. Cruz's Campaign Health Care proposal, without this being addressed all this talk of Insurance reform is fruitless, IMHO.

Tort reform can't be addressed under budget reconciliation rules.  So long as the 60-vote rule prevails,  the GOP will have to recruit at least a few Dems to sign on for tort reform.   

[corbe]

Tort reform can't be addressed under budget reconciliation rules.  So long as the 60-vote rule prevails,  the GOP will have to recruit at least a few Dems to sign on for tort reform.   

   Thanks for clarifying the legislative realities that exist @Jazzhead and I truly never expected a bunch of Lawyers to regulate their abusive tendencies to rape us all.

[Jazzhead]

You are PROJECTING yourself.... yet again.

And the majority on this board know that and have called you out for it.

I'm not interested in the agreement of the "majority on this board".   I think for myself,  and there are those here who agree with me.     

[corbe]

   Comeon @Jazzhead that personal attack was way out of line, use your brain to make your points not your emotions, as hard as that can be for most here at times (including me).

[Jazzhead]

   Thanks for clarifying the legislative realities that exist @Jazzhead and I truly never expected a bunch of Lawyers to regulate their abusive tendencies to rape us all.

I'm fed up with the 60-vote rule in light of the ongoing Dem "resistance" and obstruction.   The single best thing GOP Senators can do get rid of the damn rule once and for all.  They did it for Gorsuch, they can do it for the rest of America.   

[XenaLee]

I anyone had any doubts Jazzhead is a die-Hard Leftist and an acolyte of Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Barrack Obama and Jonathan Gruber - all one has to do is read his comments, and then go and Google comments by those four clowns in regards to ACA and you will find that he is quoting them verbatim.

His justifications for mandated coverage are literally ripped right out of the pages of the Democrat talking point playbook.

The term 'Free Riders" was coined by Jonathan Gruber - the architect of the Individual Mandate and a total Hildabeast worshipper. It is revealing that a self-identifying "Conservative" on this board so liberally uses the arguments of the Leftists to supposedly champion that which he demonstrates he is actually waging war against.

Especially since.... that "self-identifying Conservative" is anything BUT a Conservative (you didn't build that, you just got lucky BS)...

and then has the colossal ballz to call anyone 'else' dishonest. 

[jmyrlefuller]

Pushing Socialism on us disguised as compassion guarantees that squalor.

Then how come the western world isn't a festering wasteland yet despite being far more socialist than we are? By many measures those countries might even be healthier than we are!

The Eastern world examples you cite are because there are far too many people to realistically be able to take care of with the resources India has, an appallingly similar crisis to the one facing much of America today.

[Jazzhead]

   Comeon @Jazzhead that personal attack was way out of line, use your brain to make your points not your emotions, as hard as that can be for most here at times (including me).

    I removed it, Corbe.   

[corbe]

   your a good man @Jazzhead I don't care what everyone else says, just some humour dude to lighten it up, Carry On

[INVAR]

The intellectual roots of the ACA are, indeed, conservative. 

INVAR,  you have got to be the single most dishonest person on this board.

Ronald Reagan himself proves you to be the dishonest one.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnLa1BvtaxM

[Jazzhead]

   your a good man @Jazzhead I don't care what everyone else says, just some humour dude to lighten it up, Carry On

Thanks, corbe.  I have old school views that annoy the cultural conservatives and take a lot of incoming fire for it.  I try to respond in the spirit of being contributive.  Sometimes I react to the barrage of falsehoods and insinuations inappropriately.   I am always happy to oblige a member in good faith who calls me on it, and to edit my post. 

[Emjay]

No.   The main reason why mandates were put in place.... against the will of MOST Americans and every Republican in Congress.... is so that government, the leftists' "god" could control every American by their short hairs.... even while orchestrating the most massive redistribution of wealth this country has seen "yet".

And even with the mandates, young people could still end up as "free riders".... if they were working and paying taxes, by paying the ""fee"", which would still leave them uninsured.  ObamaCare didn't eliminate, change or fix that BS excuse.... yet the dumfuk leftists act as if it did.

I think you were exactly like a lot of young people who weren't working in jobs with health insurance.  Young people don't expect anything to happen to them healthwise and it usually doesn't.

I would not have left you dying by the side of the road if I had to come get you myself.

[Jazzhead]

Ronald Reagan himself proves you to be the dishonest one.

The ACA is not "socialized medicine".  It is heavy-handed government regulation of the private insurance market, to be sure, but  it is not socialized medicine.  But socialized medicine is what we will get if we don't fix the ACA.   The problem of the uninsured may mean nothing to you and your "Christian" soul, but most of the rest of us - liberal, centrist or conservative - will not abide leaving the sick and dying by the side of the road.   

[INVAR]

The ACA is not "socialized medicine".  It is heavy-handed government regulation of the private insurance market, to be sure, but  it is not socialized medicine.  But socialized medicine is what we will get if we don't fix the ACA.   The problem of the uninsured may mean nothing to you and your "Christian" soul, but most of the rest of us - liberal, centrist or conservative - will not abide leaving the sick and dying by the side of the road.

Oh STOP with the stupid, inane, and bullshit Leftist argumentation to assuage that which we know and understand to be the first Phase of the implementation of Single Payer (Socialized Medicine), which ObamaCare was designed to usher in.

There is no 'fixing' ObamaCare.  It was and is, as it's only sole function - a wrecking ball to destroy the insurance market and cause misery and mayhem so the people will scream for Single Payer to 'fix'.

You must really think we are stupid to continue peddling your Leftist garbage here.

As to your PERVERSION of scripture to equivocate Christianity with Socialism - Jesus never asked us to abandon our individual responsibility to do charity by empowering the government to rob your neighbors of their wealth to redistribute so you can lie to yourself that you are compassionate by having government do charity and comfort on your behalf and in your name.

What you advocate is robbing the individual of their responsibility and pretending God is pleased with your support of tyrannical government.

[txradioguy]

The intellectual roots of the ACA are, indeed, conservative.

That has to be the biggest steaming pile of barnyard excrement I've seen posted here in quit awhile.

That's straight up troll poop right there folks.

[txradioguy]

The ACA is not "socialized medicine".  It is heavy-handed government regulation of the private insurance market, to be sure, but  it is not socialized medicine.  But socialized medicine is what we will get if we don't fix the ACA.   The problem of the uninsured may mean nothing to you and your "Christian" soul, but most of the rest of us - liberal, centrist or conservative - will not abide leaving the sick and dying by the side of the road.

*cough* bullsh*t *cough*

[INVAR]

That has to be the biggest steaming pile of barnyard excrement I've seen posted here in quit awhile.

That's straight up troll poop right there folks.

Isn't it though?

He must think we're idiots and that we do not recognize what he really is based on the stuff he types.

...but most of the rest of us - liberal, centrist or conservative - will not abide leaving the sick and dying by the side of the road.

Apparently Lefties like him have nothing new besides insisting that Conservatives want to "kill old people/make them eat dog food"; "starve children"; "make everyone breathe dirty air and drink dirty water"; "reinstitute slavery"; "destroy the planet"; "take from the poor to give to the 1%"; "leave the uninsured to die on the roadside" and all the other stupid sordid attempts at imposing bogus political guilt-trips.

We're broke and it's all about to come tumbling down to crush us into oblivion while Leftists pretending to be Conservatives cheerlead imposing even greater Socialism because they falsely believe that makes them a better Christian.

[Jazzhead]

INVAR, your use of scripture to justify your callous indifference to the poor and disadvantaged is the real perversion. 

The inability of so many to access affordable health insurance is the direct result of government policy that favors those of us fortunate enough to have jobs with the "right" employers able to provide health coverage as a perk of employment.  Our employer-based system creates winners and losers that have nothing to do with individual virtue, just good vs. bad fortune.   IMO, the current system is fundamentally immoral and must be replaced with a different paradigm.  Even single payer is preferable to the current employer-based system.   The government is, or should be, the extension of the community and its facilitator of fair and moral means of addressing the financial ruin of unanticipated health care expenses.   

Relying on "God to provide" is a cruel hoax.     

[txradioguy]

Isn't it though?

He must think we're idiots and that we do not recognize what he really is based on the stuff he types.

Apparently Lefties like him have nothing new besides insisting that Conservatives want to "kill old people/make them eat dog food"; "starve children"; "make everyone breathe dirty air and drink dirty water"; "reinstitute slavery"; "destroy the planet"; "take from the poor to give to the 1%"; "leave the uninsured to die on the roadside" and all the other stupid sordid attempts at imposing bogus political guilt-trips.

We're broke and it's all about to come tumbling down to crush us into oblivion while Leftists pretending to be Conservatives cheerlead imposing even greater Socialism because they falsely believe that makes them a better Christian.

One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project. Most people are a little reluctant to oppose anything that suggests medical care for people who possibly can’t afford it.

Now, the American people, if you put it to them about socialized medicine and gave them a chance to choose, would unhesitatingly vote against it. We had an example of this. Under the Truman Administration it was proposed that we have a compulsory health insurance program for all people in the United States, and, of course, the American people unhesitatingly rejected this.

<snip>

Now in our country under our free enterprise system, we have seen medicine reach the greatest heights that it has in any country in the world. Today, the relationship between patient and doctor in this country is something to be envied any place: the privacy, the care that is given to a person, the right to chose a doctor, the right to go from one doctor to the other.

But let’s also look from the other side -- at the freedom the doctor loses. A doctor would be reluctant to say this. Well, like you, I'm only a patient, so I can say it in his behalf. The doctor begins to lose freedoms; it’s like telling a lie, and one leads to another. First you decide that the doctor can have so many patients. They're equally divided among the various doctors by the government. But then the doctors aren’t equally divided geographically, so a doctor decides he wants to practice in one town and the government has to say to him, "You can’t live in that town. They already have enough doctors." You have to go someplace else. And from here it's only a short step to dictating where he will go.

This is a freedom that I wonder whether any of us have the right to take from any human being.

Ronald Reagan - Radio Address on Socialized Medicine 1961

[Jazzhead]

That has to be the biggest steaming pile of barnyard excrement I've seen posted here in quit awhile.

That's straight up troll poop right there folks.

Research the origins of the individual mandate.   It is a conservative idea at its root - a market-based alternative to single payer as means of addressing the crisis of the uninsured.

Just google the phrase "conservative origins of Obamacare" and have fun.   Willful ignorance is not a virtue, Tx.     

[txradioguy]

Research the origins of the individual mandate.   It is a conservative idea at its root - a market-based alternative to single payer as means of addressing the crisis of the uninsured.

Conservatives rejected the individual mandate.  Once Heritage and Cato did the numbers and realized just how bad it was...they backed away.

You need to learn to tell all the facts...not just the ones that support your Liberal agenda.

And even if you refuse to accept the truth...all you have do to is look around today at the sorry state of healthcare over the last 7 years to realize that Government running the healthcare/health insurance system in any way is destructive to anything and anyone involved.

Refusal to see that is a complete denial of reality.

[Jazzhead]

Conservatives rejected the individual mandate.  Once Heritage and Cato did the numbers and realized just how bad it was...they backed away.

You need to learn to tell all the facts...not just the ones that support your Liberal agenda.

And even if you refuse to accept the truth...all you have do to is look around today at the sorry state of healthcare over the last 7 years to realize that Government running the healthcare/health insurance system in any way is destructive to anything and anyone involved.

Refusal to see that is a complete denial of reality.

Laziness and ignorance are not virtues, Tx.  Again - just google the phrase "conservative origins of ObamaCare".   

[txradioguy]

Again - just google the phrase "conservative origins of ObamaCare".   

I just told you I know where it originated.  And who actually made the initial proposals.

It appears I know more what your Liberal sources are telling you that you seem to cut and paste from.

Laziness and ignorance are not virtues, Tx

I understand that.  It seems to be a lesson however that you are incapable of learning.  You keep repeating the same lazy ignorant tripe despite everyone showing you that you're tragically wrong.

[jmyrlefuller]

Isn't it though?

He must think we're idiots and that we do not recognize what he really is based on the stuff he types.

Apparently Lefties like him have nothing new besides insisting that Conservatives want to "kill old people/make them eat dog food"; "starve children"; "make everyone breathe dirty air and drink dirty water"; "reinstitute slavery"; "destroy the planet"; "take from the poor to give to the 1%"; "leave the uninsured to die on the roadside" and all the other stupid sordid attempts at imposing bogus political guilt-trips.

We're broke and it's all about to come tumbling down to crush us into oblivion while Leftists pretending to be Conservatives cheerlead imposing even greater Socialism because they falsely believe that makes them a better Christian.

Ah, Leftist Math.

OK, let's review.

You oppose this bill because it doesn't completely eliminate all government involvement in the health care industry. That is a position that literally no person in position of authority, nor anyone with a realistic chance of assuming authority, holds, and a position that has no chance of becoming official policy.

This bill reduces government involvement in the industry by removing mandates and loosening restrictions it imposed.

The alternative is no change.

This is not like the Presidential election, where there were multiple options and the Trump caucus tried to force upon us a false dilemma. This is, literally, a dilemma. You are either for it or against it.

Anybody with a basic, elementary school knowledge of math can tell that passing the bill gets one closer to your goal than not passing it. That is, unless you believe Leftist logic (the same one that says a reduced future increase is somehow a cut).

Regardless of whether the bill passes or not, the chances of reaching your goal (again, zero) do not change. If anything, as people get used to less government in the health care system, it might even make them more willing to take another step toward that goal in the future. If you are fine with tilting at windmills and letting Obamacare stand on principle, then you should have no problem still tilting at windmills if this bill passes as well.

The best we can do is keep moving, keep pushing, take every opportunity we can get, even if it is partial.