Passengers ‘shaky and so disgusted’ as United forces screaming doctor off a plane

[Smokin Joe]

If they were to ever get these trains in place I doubt the boarding process would be much better then the airlines.   They'd find a reason to add TSA to the process, security checks, random screenings and so on.

But zey haff ways to make ze trains run on time.

[anubias]

Now be fair with the flight time.  It takes a lot more time of the passenger than just the time in the air.  It is a lot faster get in and out of rail stations than from a plane that just landed on the runway.

When I had more frequent business between Houston and Dallas, I found flying saved very little time over driving when you included the time spent go to/from and dealing with the airport.

Driving is often faster due to flight delays.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Which is why I said the airline CAN bump anyone they want.   They usually start with the occasionally customers rather then the regulars but they CAN bump anyone.

American airline companies are making HUGE profits and United is the leader.

Airline profits are all over the place.  They have good years, and bad years.   

In a free market the customer is never wrong.   The customer may be overly demanding and a pain in the rear-end but they are not wrong.

Customers are wrong plenty of times.  There are customers who refuse to pay what is owed, pay late, destroy property, steal, treat employees like dirt...any number of times they're wrong.  I once had a "customer" grope a secretary.  Was that "wrong"?

Other airlines such as Qantas  and Korean Air have figured this out.   Through good business practices they have managed the market so that customers buy on value and not on lowest price.   When you sell based on price you will eventually find your customers aren't happy with your service.

The fact that some customers value service over price does not mean that all customers do.  If they did, first class and business class would sell out before a single coach seat was sold.

[driftdiver]

Airline profits are all over the place.  They have good years, and bad years.   

Customers are wrong plenty of times.  There are customers who refuse to pay what is owed, pay late, destroy property, steal, treat employees like dirt...any number of times they're wrong.  I once had a "customer" grope a secretary.  Was that "wrong"?

The fact that some customers value service over price does not mean that all customers do.  If they did, first class and business class would sell out before a single coach seat was sold.

@Maj. Bill Martin

You are awfully defensive about the airlines.   You must work for em.

People ( those in the back aka customers) mostly view air travel as a necessary evil.   Something they must endure to get where they want to go.   I used to be able fly from Tampa to Dallas and be there in time for an 830am meeting.   Trip wasn't pleasant but was pretty much predictable.

Now that same trip takes an entire day and is nothing but misery.   Cramped and dirty aircraft, dirty terminals, grumpy passengers and flight crews who have a chip on their shoulder.    Dare to complain and you get tossed off the flight.   Say the wrong thing and the agent will call the cops or flight attendant will say you are interfering with a flight crew. 

[driftdiver]

Driving is often faster due to flight delays.

@anubias
I was looking up rental cars when my flight from DFW to Atlanta finally boarded.   I ended up getting home to Tampa after only 14 hours of travel.   My coworker who was supposed to be on the same flight ended up taking about 36 hours.   

Google said the drive was 17 hours.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Maj. Bill Martin

You are awfully defensive about the airlines.   You must work for em.

Nope -- never did, and don't have a penny invested in them.  Just flown enough to know the rules about bumping.  And I have zero sympathy for a drama queen who gets dragged off because he refuses to follow the rules to which he agreed.

People ( those in the back aka customers) mostly view air travel as a necessary evil.   Something they must endure to get where they want to go.   I used to be able fly from Tampa to Dallas and be there in time for an 830am meeting.   Trip wasn't pleasant but was pretty much predictable.

Now that same trip takes an entire day and is nothing but misery.   Cramped and dirty aircraft, dirty terminals, grumpy passengers and flight crews who have a chip on their shoulder.    Dare to complain and you get tossed off the flight.   Say the wrong thing and the agent will call the cops or flight attendant will say you are interfering with a flight crew.

Never been tossed off a flight, or even close to it.  Then again, I'm not a demanding guy.

The real problem is that a lot of people want cheap air travel, yet want to be treated as if they're getting something else.  Options for more luxurious travel -- business class or first class -- generally are available.  But most people don't want to pay for that, so they get what they are willing to pay for.

[driftdiver]

Nope -- never did, and don't have a penny invested in them.  Just flown enough to know the rules about bumping.  And I have zero sympathy for a drama queen who gets dragged off because he refuses to follow the rules to which he agreed.

Never been tossed off a flight, or even close to it.  Then again, I'm not a demanding guy.

The real problem is that a lot of people want cheap air travel, yet want to be treated as if they're getting something else.  Options for more luxurious travel -- business class or first class -- generally are available.  But most people don't want to pay for that, so they get what they are willing to pay for.

@Maj. Bill Martin

I fly a lot.   I've seen a lot of stupid stuff.   Drunks, people puking, heart attacks, strokes, idiots and lots of decent people.   

People are buying on price because airlines are selling on price.  You probably don't understand the point I'm making.

[thackney]

People are buying on price because airlines are selling on price.

I'm fairly certain you have that backwards.

There are lots of opportunity to pay for full fare tickets, buy first class, etc.

Instead most use internet compare sites to get the absolute cheapest fare.

[Idaho_Cowboy]

Might look that way until you realize they are showing 110MPH across N. Dakota, which is a high traffic rail freight corridor and includes oil tanker trains among other things--not to mention snow.

That either means new tracks, or sharing with some fairly long freight trains. What could go wrong?

You have to have new tracks grade crossing the whole nine yards. If memory serves 79mph is the absolute limit for road crossing; go faster than that and the train will be in the crossing before the arms come down.

[mountaineer]

I'll admit to wanting cheap air travel. Just hoping getting knocked out and a bloody nose isn't part of the trade-off.

[driftdiver]

I'm fairly certain you have that backwards.

There are lots of opportunity to pay for full fare tickets, buy first class, etc.

Instead most use internet compare sites to get the absolute cheapest fare.

You made my point.

Inexperienced travelers tend to only look at price.   Some airlines you have to pay for every bag, some you don't.   

[Wingnut]

Nothing will come of this. The airlines and airports have become a post apocalyptic nightmare after 911. Civility, common sense and rational behavior is gone and all that is left is thug govt' tactics like this.

You have a better shot at getting somewhere more comfortably and on time taking a Greyhound bus than taking a flight anymore.

I like the train.  Riding the rails is peaceful and relaxing.  You meet a better class of people too.

[thackney]

You made my point.

Inexperienced travelers tend to only look at price.   Some airlines you have to pay for every bag, some you don't.

If you are making a point, I'm not seeing it.

Airlines sell by price because most people paying for flights prioritize that way.  And most people on the typical flight are NOT first time flyers.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Maj. Bill Martin People are buying on price because airlines are selling on price.  You probably don't understand the point I'm making.

I do.  I just think you're wrong.  Airlines aren't jamming low prices down the throats of consumers.  They're selling on price because for most passengers, price is incredibly important.   There's an entire industry -- Priceline, Kayak, etc. -- build around finding people the lowest possible price to get from point A to point B.  That's because the consumer demand is for low prices.

When I flew more for business, I'd never pay the cheapest fare for precisely this reason.  I wanted the flexibility to cancel/reschedule, the security of knowing I wouldn't be bumped, etc..  But that costs more, and you have to be willing to pay that.  Many people aren't.  Well, okay.  If you want the low fares that come from airlines ensuring that popular routes are full, without empty seats, then you're going to run the risk of being bumped.  If you're not willing to run that risk, then upgrade.

This guy wanted the cheap flight, but without the possibility of being bumped.  Sorry, you don't get that option.

[driftdiver]

You have to have new tracks grade crossing the whole nine yards. If memory serves 79mph is the absolute limit for road crossing; go faster than that and the train will be in the crossing before the arms come down.

@Idaho_Cowboy
Here in Florida there was a brief effort for high speed rail.   one of the lines was from Tampa to Orlando, 80 miles.   Of course every town in between wanted a stop.

The proposed ticket price was $20 per person each way.   

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I'll admit to wanting cheap air travel. Just hoping getting knocked out and a bloody nose isn't part of the trade-off.

It's not, as long as you follow the terms of your ticket and understand there is a possibility you get bumped.  And if that happens, you handle it like an adult, get off the plane as requested, and pick up your $800 bonus cash.  You don't decide to reneg on your agreement regarding being bumped and have to be dragged off by cops.

[mirraflake]

So much flat out stupidity.

UA could  have rented a van or maybe even have chartered a small plane to get their people to Louisville for the comp they were offering.

I bet there was at least 10 private ceo jets for UA parked right at that airport.

[mirraflake]

My wife and I was flying to FL for our honeymoon..4 days at the mickey park and a 4 day cruise to Bahamas.

They offered to pay $350 each and overnight accomadations and food and I was like YEEESSSSS but sadly were were not picked. I think our flight at the time was around $200 each round trip so I would have made $300  plus not have to spend for dinner that night.

[Polly Ticks]

Think United’s bad day can’t get worse? These #UnitedMovieLines won’t do them any favors

http://twitchy.com/sd-3133/2017/04/10/think-uniteds-bad-day-cant-get-worse-these-unitedmovielines-wont-do-them-any-favors/

[mystery-ak]

 Brandon Morse‏Verified account @TheBrandonMorse

This is the banged up face of a soon to be very, very wealthy man.

[mystery-ak]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvPugcb7QGE

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I don't know how wealthy he'll be.

Assuming his ticket was like most tickets, it said that he could be bumped.  There are even express laws regulating when passengers can be bumped involuntarily, the required compensation, etc.  United didn't just make this up on their own.  And airlines are within their legal rights to have passengers who refuse to be removed, removed involuntarily by police or contractors.  Normally, companies are willing to settle claims that hurt their image, but there is a real issue with precedent here.  If this guy gets tossed a pot of money, then you're going to see a lot of other passengers refuse to comply when ordered to deplane.  It may have the perverse effect of encouraging more confrontations.  So, speaking as a lawyer, this is one of those situations where you would encourage your client to fight it out -- at least for awhile.

I'd point out that those crew members were very likely heading to be the crew on a different plane.  If they did not make that flight, then an entire other flight would have to be cancelled, and all those people delayed.

Bottom line is that you simply do not have a legal right to refuse to deplane when ordered to do so.  This guy apparently believed that the rules that applied to everyone else don't apply to him, so he refused.  He found out that he's no better than anyone else.  Honestly, I have absolutely zero sympathy for this guy.  You were told to leave, so leave.  Is that really so hard?

[mystery-ak]

.  He found out that he's no better than anyone else.  Honestly, I have absolutely zero sympathy for this guy.  You were told to leave, so leave.  Is that really so hard?

Agreed....I would have taken the $800 and a night in a hotel...I never want to go home..lol

[catfish1957]

I don't know how wealthy he'll be.

I'd venture that since this has already been a PR disaster for UA, I'd guess this guy will get a pretty decent "out of court" undisclosed settlement.  If you are a lawyer, what do you think?  About $250-$500K? That'd be my guess.

[Wingnut]

Agreed....I would have taken the $800 and a night in a hotel...I never want to go home..lol

Hmmmm....One night Bangkok.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgc_LRjlbTU