Author Topic: BREAKING NEWS! Susan Rice requested unmasking of incoming Trump administration officials.  (Read 17832 times)

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Offline truth_seeker

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Perhaps you should give folks a pass for wallowing in what they want to hear, as should I; it's only human.

No problem with "giving folks a pass," but the person claims to have a corner on the market of knowledge, by virtue of the quantity of information gathered, not by demonstrated discernment and judgments derived from said information.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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No problem with "giving folks a pass," but the person claims to have a corner on the market of knowledge, by virtue of the quantity of information gathered, not by demonstrated discernment and judgments derived from said information.

Could not have said it as well myself @truth_seeker  Thanks.

I hope you read this, too @Idaho_Cowboy

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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All true! Every word! But that does not mean she is wrong about this!

Thank, @Bigun  . . . I think   :laugh:

Online Bigun

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Thank, @Bigun  . . . I think   :laugh:

@Right_in_Virginia

Everything he said about your behavior back then is true.  That does not mean you are wrong about what is going on now.

Hope that clears things up for you.
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"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline Victoria33

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Why not mention who that House member is?    It's Joaquin Castro, Liberal Democrat from Texas.  He's the same guy who called for Trump to be impeached over the refugee order -- the very first Democrat to call for impeachment. He has been consistently saying/doing anything he possibly can to weaken the new GOP Administration.  So if you want to accept as gospel his spin on what he has seen...I just don't get it.
Of all the people in D.C., why in the world would you trust him?

Reporting what was said is not believing it.  His was one opinion among many who are talking about this information - at least he has it whereas others are talking who haven't seen it. 
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 05:54:29 pm by Victoria33 »

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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@Right_in_Virginia

Everything he said about your behavior back then is true.  That does not mean you are wrong about what is going on now.

Hope that clears things up for you.

I did "get" it, @Bigun.  Thanks.   ^-^

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Reporting what was said is not believing it.  His was one opinion among many who are talking about this information - at least he has it whereas others are talking who haven't seen it.

When you report what was said as being by a generic "House member", without specifying that the House member in question is a hard-left weasel, it gives the story more gravitas than it deserves.

Offline Emjay

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When you report what was said as being by a generic "House member", without specifying that the House member in question is a hard-left weasel, it gives the story more gravitas than it deserves.

We should know by now that you cannot trust hard-left weasels.
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Offline Victoria33

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No problem with "giving folks a pass," but the person claims to have a corner on the market of knowledge, by virtue of the quantity of information gathered, not by demonstrated discernment and judgments derived from said information.

At this point, I don't believe ANY information about who was involved in the Russian invasion into our election or who was involved in releasing names of Trump's people who were involved with the Russians and whether or not that involvement had anything to do with the election.  We have two committee's investigating this and eventually, perhaps, maybe, we will know.  It is this dripping of information, real or not, that causes people to make wrong or even right, conclusions.  I have made absolutely NO conclusion, NO judgment concerning any of this. 

Offline txradioguy

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At this point, I don't believe ANY information about who was involved in the Russian invasion into our election or who was involved in releasing names of Trump's people who were involved with the Russians and whether or not that involvement had anything to do with the election.  We have two committee's investigating this and eventually, perhaps, maybe, we will know.  It is this dripping of information, real or not, that causes people to make wrong or even right, conclusions.  I have made absolutely NO conclusion, NO judgment concerning any of this.

And at the end of the day what is going to be determined about Ms Rice is whether or not she...or someone else leaked the names to someone in Congress or to the media which IS the illegal part of all of this.

The simple unmasking of names in and of itself is not illegal. 
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Offline LateForLunch

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And at the end of the day what is going to be determined about Ms Rice is whether or not she...or someone else leaked the names to someone in Congress or to the media which IS the illegal part of all of this.

The simple unmasking of names in and of itself is not illegal.

The crux of that last issue (evidence of criminality of unmasking) is, as the lawyers in my family like to say, "in discovery". It is often said that intention is 9/10ths of the law. If evidence is uncovered that Rice used her authority to request unmasking of U.S. citizens for political / personal reasons, not legitimate ones related to her job function, that would arguably constitute evidence of a crime or crimes plural (political espionage). Preventing government officials from doing that was most of the motivation for the creation of the Espionage Act stipulations  in regard to misuse of government authority by officials (goes back to the post-Watergate era)

Showing intent is a gray area of law so the case is a question mark at this point. However the ability for her to skate the way Hill-O_lies did without an indictment if such evidence does emerge, makes it likely that she will feel at least some significant pressure to turn state's evidence to avoid a long prison sentence, especially since she will likely be charged with multiple counts, each with its own sentence attached, if she is indicted. 
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 06:36:55 pm by LateForLunch »
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Offline txradioguy

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The crux of that last issue (evidence of criminality of unmasking) is, as the lawyers in my family like to say, "in discovery". It is often said that intention is 9/10ths of the law. If evidence is uncovered that Rice used her authority to request unmasking of U.S. citizens for political / personal reasons, not legitimate ones related to her job function, that would arguably constitute evidence of a crime or crimes plural (political espionage). Preventing government officials from doing that was most of the motivation for the creation of the Espionage Act stipulations  in regard to government authority.

Showing intent is a gray area of law so the case is a question mark at this point. However the ability for her to skate the way Hill-O_lies did without an indictment if such evidence does emerge, makes it likely that she will feel at least some significant pressure to turn state's evidence to avoid a long prison sentence, especially since she will likely be charged with multiple counts, each with its own sentence attached, if she is indicted.

The guilt or innocence depends on whether anyone can prove that she or Obama ordered it to be done for political reasons. As of now, there’s no evidence of that.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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The guilt or innocence depends on whether anyone can prove that she or Obama ordered it to be done for political reasons. As of now, there’s no evidence of that.

We here haven't seen the evidence.

Proving intent doesn't have to be done via direct evidence -- it can easily be done via circumstantial evidence, such as looking at the information unmasked and asking whether a claim it was for national security purposes is credible, or not.  Also, the identities/functions of the people to whom the information was disseminated can constitute evidence as to the purpose of the dissemination/unmasking.  If the information was provided to people who do not have national security functions, then the claim that it was unmasked and disseminated for national security purposes become less credible.

Offline txradioguy

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We here haven't seen the evidence.

Proving intent doesn't have to be done via direct evidence -- it can easily be done via circumstantial evidence, such as looking at the information unmasked and asking whether a claim it was for national security purposes is credible, or not.  Also, the identities/functions of the people to whom the information was disseminated can constitute evidence as to the purpose of the dissemination/unmasking.  If the information was provided to people who do not have national security functions, then the claim that it was unmasked and disseminated for national security purposes become less credible.

We civilians may never see all the evidence because of the way the info was collected.  Rice was merely a consumer...or she was supposed to be anyway...of the intel gathered by one of three agencies...there are still security classifications attached to the intel where the Trump teams were collected along with the main target.

Which will lead to more speculation and filling in of gaps with info and theories that might or might not be correct.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Emjay

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The crux of that last issue (evidence of criminality of unmasking) is, as the lawyers in my family like to say, "in discovery". It is often said that intention is 9/10ths of the law. If evidence is uncovered that Rice used her authority to request unmasking of U.S. citizens for political / personal reasons, not legitimate ones related to her job function, that would arguably constitute evidence of a crime or crimes plural (political espionage). Preventing government officials from doing that was most of the motivation for the creation of the Espionage Act stipulations  in regard to misuse of government authority by officials (goes back to the post-Watergate era)

Showing intent is a gray area of law so the case is a question mark at this point. However the ability for her to skate the way Hill-O_lies did without an indictment if such evidence does emerge, makes it likely that she will feel at least some significant pressure to turn state's evidence to avoid a long prison sentence, especially since she will likely be charged with multiple counts, each with its own sentence attached, if she is indicted.

I think she feels untouchable right now.  I've seen nothing in her demeanor to suggest that she's worried.  She probably still thinks Obama is God and will protect her and, right now, she has reason to believe the press will protect her.  She can always go on NPR again and use our tax dollars to proclaim her innocence.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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I think she feels untouchable right now.  I've seen nothing in her demeanor to suggest that she's worried.  She probably still thinks Obama is God and will protect her and, right now, she has reason to believe the press will protect her.  She can always go on NPR again and use our tax dollars to proclaim her innocence.

Let's hope she keeps that notion in her head.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline LonestarDream

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The guilt or innocence depends on whether anyone can prove that she or Obama ordered it to be done for political reasons. As of now, there’s no evidence of that.

That is one of many scenarios.  Jarrett or Rhodes or McCabe could have done the ordering.
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Offline don-o

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That is one of many scenarios.  Jarrett or Rhodes or McCabe could have done the ordering.

Could be a name we never heard of.
---------------------------------------------------

Why Is Obama Expanding Surveillance Powers Right Before He Leaves Office?

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/01/obama-expanding-nsa-powers/513041/

On Thursday, the Obama administration finalized new rules that allow the National Security Agency to share information it gleans from its vast international surveillance apparatus with the 16 other agencies that make up the U.S. intelligence community.

With the new changes, which were long in the works, those agencies can apply for access to various feeds of raw, undoctored NSA intelligence. Analysts will then be able to sift through the contents of those feeds as they see fit, before implementing required privacy protections. Previously, the NSA applied those privacy protections itself, before forwarding select pieces of information to

Offline txradioguy

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Could be a name we never heard of.
---------------------------------------------------

Why Is Obama Expanding Surveillance Powers Right Before He Leaves Office?

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/01/obama-expanding-nsa-powers/513041/

On Thursday, the Obama administration finalized new rules that allow the National Security Agency to share information it gleans from its vast international surveillance apparatus with the 16 other agencies that make up the U.S. intelligence community.

With the new changes, which were long in the works, those agencies can apply for access to various feeds of raw, undoctored NSA intelligence. Analysts will then be able to sift through the contents of those feeds as they see fit, before implementing required privacy protections. Previously, the NSA applied those privacy protections itself, before forwarding select pieces of information to

IMHO...he changed them because he knew some of his people had broken the law and it was a purely CYA move on his behalf.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline don-o

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IMHO...he changed them because he knew some of his people had broken the law and it was a purely CYA move on his behalf.

My reading of this is that the change had been in the works for a long time and the ostensible  purpose was to facilitate sharing, the lack of which was deemed a problem by the 9/11 Commission.

That it was approved (it's a revision to a Bush EO) is maybe coincidence, maybe fortuitous, maybe foreboding, depending on ones POV.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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IMHO...he changed them because he knew some of his people had broken the law and it was a purely CYA move on his behalf.

That would be out of character for Obumbler.  It wouldn't cover HIS butt, it would protect the people under him, and like the Clintons, he would never lift a finger to help anybody not named "Barack Hussein Obama."
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Cyber Liberty

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My reading of this is that the change had been in the works for a long time and the ostensible  purpose was to facilitate sharing, the lack of which was deemed a problem by the 9/11 Commission.

That it was approved (it's a revision to a Bush EO) is maybe coincidence, maybe fortuitous, maybe foreboding, depending on ones POV.

Believing that would require me to believe Obama gave a Rat's Patootie about the USA, and I just can't do it. 
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline LateForLunch

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My reading of this is that the change had been in the works for a long time and the ostensible  purpose was to facilitate sharing, the lack of which was deemed a problem by the 9/11 Commission.

That it was approved (it's a revision to a Bush EO) is maybe coincidence, maybe fortuitous, maybe foreboding, depending on ones POV.

Yeah, the Eightball Obama had seven years and eleven months to make such a change and didn't do it. Then apparently the only time the unmasking was done was to enable sharing of the identities of political opponents connections with a foreign power which the DNC was trying to convince the public had subverted the election with the collusion of their opponent's party. And that's supposedly done in the interests of something set into the works before the campaign began. Right.

Tell me another joke.
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Offline Emjay

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Reporting what was said is not believing it.  His was one opinion among many who are talking about this information - at least he has it whereas others are talking who haven't seen it.

Isn't that the crazy dude who thinks he can beat Ted Cruz for Senate?
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline don-o

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Tell me another joke.

Let me be clear. I hold no brief for Obama. Simply sharing what i have read as I have tried to learn and understand this fairly complex matter.

And I suspect there is disagreement all across the political spectrum as to the pros and cons.