Author Topic: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs  (Read 31322 times)

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #275 on: March 17, 2017, 12:07:08 am »
How can you not?   :whistle:

Couldn't help it, old friend.  that was so laugh worthy.  Low-hanging fast ball worthy.  I was helpless.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #276 on: March 17, 2017, 12:07:43 am »

You're wrong. Just admit it.

ONE of us is and it ain't me!   22222frying pan
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #277 on: March 17, 2017, 12:09:25 am »
Couldn't help it, old friend.  that was so laugh worthy.  Low-hanging fast ball worthy.  I was helpless.

Yeah!  I know exactly what you mean!   :beer:
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #278 on: March 17, 2017, 12:15:51 am »

You're one to talk punk. I've never been banned from here. I know you have been repeatedly.

Punk?   Why sir I am offended at your slight.  I have been rehabilitated. I have become a contributing member of the forum.  Just ask anyone.   Which begs the question...  Why are you still such an assssss er... I mean...a  contrarian?

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #279 on: March 17, 2017, 12:18:56 am »
I'm willing to agree to disagree guys. And we'll just leave it at that.

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #280 on: March 17, 2017, 12:25:52 am »
I'm willing to agree to disagree guys. And we'll just leave it at that.

@Weird Tolkienish Figure look...I'm fine with that.  We both know only time is going to settle this, so let's just cool it. 
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #281 on: March 17, 2017, 12:26:33 am »
Well, maybe.  The problem with this position is that you're not the only person in the world.  You may not even be the only person in your house, in which case you're kidding yourself if you think you run the place.

In the real world it's a certainty that you'll never have 100% agreement with anybody on matters of moral obligation.  So, either both sides make accommodations, or you or somebody else is going to be forced into doing something they don't want to do.  Is that "bad?"  It can be ... but that's life.
My point is that a community can't have a moral obligation. A community is a social construct. A community has no soul, no relationship with a deity, only the individuals in that community do.

We are not of a hive mind. It is the actions or beliefs of the individuals in the community, taken in aggregate, often imposed on the remainder, which are the action of the community, but a community can't have a moral obligation, only the individual people in it.

The purpose of our Bill of Rights was to hold up some of the unalienable Rights we, as individuals, have. There is even an Amendment that states the list there is not comprehensive, nor is it intended to limit the Rights of the individual to what is listed.

The community has no Rights, only the individuals in it, who may choose to exercise their Rights in aggregate, or individually, but nowhere in the Bill of Rights is any Right of the community mentioned, only restrictions on the power thereof.

Individuals have moral obligations. A community does not.

Similarly, individuals have a relationship with their deity (or a choice to acknowledge none), and while a community may have a consensus in even this regard, the moral obligations of the individuals in the community (as part of those individuals' embraced religious views) do not become the moral obligations of a community. 

Individuals have religious (moral) obligations, communities do not, unless they are united in their belief. We have a word for a group of people who are united in such belief: "church".

Moral obligations belonging to the individuals who, united in their moral beliefs make up a church, not a political entity under our Constitution.

The majority voting for something does not alter the individual moral obligations, it only imposes legal obligations. If the majority imposes a law that says you can't feed the hungry in the street, or give someone a blanket on a cold night, that doesn't alter moral obligations, it only interposes the arm of the law. A law which requires that certain actions be taken, no matter how moral in its intent, imposes a legal obligation, which, while it may not remove any moral obligations the individual may embrace, also removes the choice from the individual to perform a moral act. That act has become a legal requirement, and the only matter of choice is to break the law, whether that law is good, bad, or indifferent.

I would contend that true moral obligations for an individual are imposed by their relationship with their deity (not of this world), not the external hand of the law, which imposes legal obligations (of this world).

At most those become legal obligations, imposed on the remainder of the community by either the representatives (who may not even speak for the majority--recall, 60% of Americans wanted Obamacare killed), or the majority of individuals, depending on how that imposition is structured.

That is no longer a question of morality, but of legality, not of morals, but of laws, no matter how the laws may reflect a consensus or majority of moral belief.

How often have we been told that "you can't legislate morality", by the very people who would now claim that we need legislation to impose a legal obligation to pay for the physical depredations of those suffered as a result of actions that many consider patently immoral, and who now claim that those who would not engage in those acts have a “moral duty” to subsidize relief of the results of those actions? 

Because that is what we are talking about here. Not forgiveness and help rendered to the repentant—or even unrepentant, but generations of subsidized babies born out of wedlock, fully supported by those who marry and support and raise their own families. Food for those who will not work, provided by those who do. Housing for those who will not work, provided by those who live leaner as a result. Medical care for those who engage in dangerous sexual practices which, in scripture are considered by the Almighty an “abomination”. These are not people who are repentant and trying to change, but those who glory in their behaviour, who parade in the streets, who demand that those who meet their own individual moral obligations meet those financial obligations incurred by those who feel no moral obligation to live a less profligate and/or salacious life.

As for using the law to forcibly loot those who provide for their own sustenance, work hard, and try to live a moral life, to pay for those who will not, I have a moral duty to object.
 
This is in no wise charity, it is legal theft.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #282 on: March 17, 2017, 12:27:03 am »
I applaud your patience WTF.... :hands:
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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #283 on: March 17, 2017, 12:36:52 am »
On the surface perhaps... but we have arrived at the point where Congress does not have to make a law, the Judiciary can make defacto law by Activism and Precedent - establish a law by ruling rather than by legislation.

It's why Democrats Judge-shop to enact their agenda when Congress doesn't pass omnibus packages in the middle of the night without a single legislator having read the bill.
It is not the job of the Judicial branch to make law. That, as was Roberts rewrite of the penalty clause of the ACA, is unconstitutional.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #284 on: March 17, 2017, 12:41:51 am »
The Left does especially, because their Agenda is more important than the supremacy of their branch and party.  They understand that a Leftist Judiciary gives them affirmation of their agenda and empowers it into law when they cannot achieve it legislatively.  The Big Lie that the Judiciary has final word on all things in terms of deeming them Constitutional - has affirmed Jefferson's big fear of what the Courts would be used to do.
Correct! The Congress lets the courts do what they will because it gives the Leftists an end-run around the Constitution.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #285 on: March 17, 2017, 12:56:29 am »
I applaud your patience WTF.... :hands:

How nice!   **nononono*
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #286 on: March 17, 2017, 02:16:29 am »
My point is that a community can't have a moral obligation. A community is a social construct.....
The purpose of our Bill of Rights was to hold up some of the unalienable Rights we, as individuals, have. There is even an Amendment that states the list there is not comprehensive, nor is it intended to limit the Rights of the individual to what is listed.

The community has no Rights, only the individuals in it, who may choose to exercise their Rights in aggregate, or individually, but nowhere in the Bill of Rights is any Right of the community mentioned, only restrictions on the power thereof.

Wonderfully and brilliantly articulated, and sadly in this day and age that fundamental understanding is not understood to be the core component of what constitutes Conservatism.  I applaud your effort to articulate it - but think we are arrived at the point that most prefer Statism of one form or another.  ESPECIALLY when so many view that the role and function of government (as empowered by the community) is to do what the secular humanist religion has deemed a moral obligation.

...The majority voting for something does not alter the individual moral obligations, it only imposes legal obligations.

Legal obligations are argued to be moral obligations by just about everyone these days.  Even when the legal obligations fly in the face of Providence.  I have heard of plenty of Christians who have been subjected to Romans 13 sermons that equivocate legal obligations to government as being moral imperatives for salvation with nary a mention of Galatians 5:1.

If the majority imposes a law that says you can't feed the hungry in the street, or give someone a blanket on a cold night, that doesn't alter moral obligations, it only interposes the arm of the law. A law which requires that certain actions be taken, no matter how moral in its intent, imposes a legal obligation, which, while it may not remove any moral obligations the individual may embrace, also removes the choice from the individual to perform a moral act. That act has become a legal requirement, and the only matter of choice is to break the law, whether that law is good, bad, or indifferent.

That used to be called tyranny.  We have forgotten our own history that teaches Providence blessed a people who took up arms against their 'lawful' government to war upon and kill it's agents sent to enforce laws that were deemed to be immoral by an ekklesia of individuals who understood where liberty actually comes from.

How often have we been told that "you can't legislate morality", by the very people who would now claim that we need legislation to impose a legal obligation to pay for the physical depredations of those suffered as a result of actions that many consider patently immoral, and who now claim that those who would not engage in those acts have a “moral duty” to subsidize relief of the results of those actions? 

Because that is what we are talking about here. Not forgiveness and help rendered to the repentant—or even unrepentant, but generations of subsidized babies born out of wedlock, fully supported by those who marry and support and raise their own families. Food for those who will not work, provided by those who do. Housing for those who will not work, provided by those who live leaner as a result. Medical care for those who engage in dangerous sexual practices which, in scripture are considered by the Almighty an “abomination”. These are not people who are repentant and trying to change, but those who glory in their behaviour, who parade in the streets, who demand that those who meet their own individual moral obligations meet those financial obligations incurred by those who feel no moral obligation to live a less profligate and/or salacious life.

As for using the law to forcibly loot those who provide for their own sustenance, work hard, and try to live a moral life, to pay for those who will not, I have a moral duty to object.
 
This is in no wise charity, it is legal theft.

Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #287 on: March 17, 2017, 02:28:16 am »
That's a really big nail.

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #288 on: March 17, 2017, 02:55:49 am »
That's a really big nail.

Well it's no Twinkie, that's for sure.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #289 on: March 17, 2017, 02:59:16 am »
@r9etb

I don't now what the answer is. I finished treatment for a potentially fatal disease last December. In my case it was going to be fatal. Sooner than later. The drug manufacturer gave me the treatment. I don't have health insurance. If they hadn't I wouldn't be talking to you now. All I know is that I wouldn't have asked for help from anyone to pay for the treatment. If it had been somewhere in the reasonable price range I would have tried to pay for it myself. A $1000 a pill is ridiculous.

My point is is that there is something wrong with the price of procedures and medications. Maybe they should try to fix that.
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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #290 on: March 17, 2017, 03:10:03 am »
@r9etb

I don't now what the answer is. I finished treatment for a potentially fatal disease last December. In my case it was going to be fatal. Sooner than later. The drug manufacturer gave me the treatment. I don't have health insurance. If they hadn't I wouldn't be talking to you now. All I know is that I wouldn't have asked for help from anyone to pay for the treatment. If it had been somewhere in the reasonable price range I would have tried to pay for it myself. A $1000 a pill is ridiculous.

My point is is that there is something wrong with the price of procedures and medications. Maybe they should try to fix that.

There is only one way to fix it Fred!  Free markets!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #291 on: March 17, 2017, 03:11:31 am »
My point is that a community can't have a moral obligation. A community is a social construct. A community has no soul, no relationship with a deity, only the individuals in that community do.

We are not of a hive mind. It is the actions or beliefs of the individuals in the community, taken in aggregate, often imposed on the remainder, which are the action of the community, but a community can't have a moral obligation, only the individual people in it.

Thanks for the effort you put into your post.  I do not mean to belittle it, but I note that its success as an argument, stands or falls on whether or not your opening statement is true.  It can be tested, and unfortunately I don't think your position works. 

You speak of "social constructs," without considering exactly what that implies.  A "social construct" as it applies to communities -- be it a small group, or an entire nation -- is a set of rules pertaining not only to individuals, but also to how the community itself will operate: how it adjudicates disputes; how it makes decisions; what limits there are on its scope of action.  There are things that the community can and cannot do, and there are things that the community must and must not do.  We can classify the things that the community can do, as "rights" or, perhaps "just authority," which comes from a communal moral standard; and certainly the things the community cannot do, it cannot do them as a matter of moral obligation.

You go on to mention the role of culture and tradition.  These are formative influences as to matters of right and wrong; what we as individuals ought and ought not to do; and what as an aggregate community ought, and ought not to do.  They're not really separable ideas -- individuals affect the community, and the community affects the individual.  These are precepts that accumulate over a long period of time, in the form of traditions and community standards.

As British philosopher Roger Scruton put it,

“In discussing tradition, we are not discussing arbitrary rules and conventions. We are discussing answers that have been discovered to enduring questions. These answers are tacit, shared, embodied in social practices and inarticulate expectations. Those who adopt them are not necessarily able to explain them, still less to justify them. Hence Burke described them as ‘prejudices’, and defended them on the ground that, though the stock of reason in each individual is small, there is an accumulation of reason in society that we question and reject at our peril.”

What Scruton (and Burke before him) is talking about, is that set of ideals and beliefs that have grown up and been imposed upon us through culture and traditions.  They are a set of answers that have emerged over generations: they outlive individuals, and are greater in scope than any particular person.  These traditions and beliefs define not only how we as individuals are supposed to act within society, but also how the community -- individuals in aggregate -- is supposed to behave.  Burke was talking about Revolutionary France: the society and its crimes, not about individuals; and rightly so.

To use an extreme example, although we can correctly condemn individuals like Hitler and Mao for the role they played in their respective genocides; we can see that doing so is obviously incomplete.  We must also recognize the moral depravity of the societies themselves, that not only permitted but took part in those genocides.  As communities, as an aggregate, they failed to live up to very basic moral obligations of a just society.

As for this particular discussion, on both sides, it is all about what communities should or must not do.  One side says, "we as a nation have a moral obligation," and the other side says, "we as a nation have no authority" to enact Kudlow's idea.  At root it is a discussion based on differing views of the moral obligations adhering to communities, not individuals.

You yourself talk in several places about it being wrong for "the government" (i.e., the community) to impose itself in certain ways on individuals.  But that is itself a statement of a communal moral obligation, which you started off by saying did not exist.

So for all the work you put into your post, it is nevertheless based on a false premise.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 03:18:19 am by r9etb »

Offline r9etb

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #292 on: March 17, 2017, 03:30:51 am »
@r9etb

I don't now what the answer is. I finished treatment for a potentially fatal disease last December. In my case it was going to be fatal. Sooner than later. The drug manufacturer gave me the treatment. I don't have health insurance. If they hadn't I wouldn't be talking to you now. All I know is that I wouldn't have asked for help from anyone to pay for the treatment. If it had been somewhere in the reasonable price range I would have tried to pay for it myself. A $1000 a pill is ridiculous.

My point is is that there is something wrong with the price of procedures and medications. Maybe they should try to fix that.

I'm very glad to hear that "going to be fatal" turned out not to be.  And good on the manufacturer for helping you out as much as they did.

As to the prices -- I think "market forces" aren't really a factor in the entire medical field, at least not "market forces" as the term is generally understood.  The cost structure is skewed by all kinds of factors, including health "insurance", regulations, patent rules, and government requirements imposed by Medicare and Medicaid, not to mention our own expectations.

Real reform has to deal with those things; and do so in a way that doesn't cause more problems than it solves (which Obamacare signally did not do...)

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #293 on: March 17, 2017, 03:45:11 am »
@r9etb

I don't now what the answer is. I finished treatment for a potentially fatal disease last December. In my case it was going to be fatal. Sooner than later. The drug manufacturer gave me the treatment. I don't have health insurance. If they hadn't I wouldn't be talking to you now. All I know is that I wouldn't have asked for help from anyone to pay for the treatment. If it had been somewhere in the reasonable price range I would have tried to pay for it myself. A $1000 a pill is ridiculous.

My point is is that there is something wrong with the price of procedures and medications. Maybe they should try to fix that.


The system works well for certain conditions, but if you have to take a drug that is either on-patent, or only manufactured by one maker, then you are basically screwed.


The important thing is that you're alive at least.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #294 on: March 17, 2017, 03:56:27 am »
Quote
A "social construct" as it applies to communities -- be it a small group, or an entire nation -- is a set of rules pertaining not only to individuals, but also to how the community itself will operate: how it adjudicates disputes; how it makes decisions; what limits there are on its scope of action.  There are things that the community can and cannot do, and there are things that the community must and must not do.  We can classify the things that the community can do, as "rights" or, perhaps "just authority," which comes from a communal moral standard; and certainly the things the community cannot do, it cannot do them as a matter of moral obligation.
Nonsense. These are all legalities, to be changed on a whim, as communal legal standards change. That may be a reflection of the morality of a community, or (to pick the ACA as an example) the vote of one man, performed against tradition and legality, imposed on the 60% of the community which did not want the act.

So we will apparently disagree. Show me one place in scripture where the soul of a community is saved in the sense of heaven and Hell. The individuals in that community may be saved from eternal suffering, but the community isn't saved because the guys down the street weren't pimping their daughters out, only the guys down the street.The relationship between a person and their God is moral and individual; that between a community and that person legal, determined by the whims of men.

Legal does not equal moral although there can be overlap. The morals of the individuals may well be reflected in the laws of the community, but the community has no morals, in and of itself, only legalities which are subject to change.

This is how we end up with laws (community) contrary to morality (individual). Despite the legality (groupthink), and this is seminal in the founding of this nation, the sense of individual morality compelled a large group of people (a third, historically) to defy that legality to follow their moral compulsions.
 
Especially there, we see the difference. Had they followed the third who were loyal to the crown despite depredations, this country would not exist. The third who were indifferent enough to not take a side would have led down the same path. It was the morality of a minority of individuals which changed the legalities of the entire community, and the moral conviction of the individuals who wrote the founding documents that our very Rights are unalienable, beyond the scope of mortal man to grant or repeal.
Yet the document they produced was not a religious document. It was a legal one. It has no bearing on whether a person spends their afterlife in Heaven or Hell, or curries favor with any deity, only the legal domain that belongs to the interactions of men (community).

Because those legalities are derived by some form of either totalitarianism, despotism,  or a consensus of those from whom authority is derived or to whom authority is granted, they can be completely contrary to the morality of individuals in the community.

Where our form of government has generally been unique is in that it does not impose a set of  morals (you can't pass a law and change how people think), only requirements or prohibitions on behaviours which have long been universally recognized as unfit for a healthy community (again, not morals, but legality).
When Roe was handed down, you would contend the community found the shredding of a baby in the womb to be moral, after all that was the law. No. It was now legal, but never will be considered by a significant number of us individuals to be moral.
It is the same with the imposed legality of not baking a wedding cake for a 'gay wedding', something which would have been firmly legally upheld as individuals exercising their right to not provide a service which conflicted with a moral conviction of the individuals at the bakery just 30 or 40 years ago, but now is a legality for which they were penalized for their moral convictions.
My morality isn't determined by the community, and arguing that the corruption of the community changes morals is nonsense. It is the corruption of individuals in the community which changes legalities. What is moral and immoral remains the same.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #295 on: March 17, 2017, 12:43:48 pm »
That's the argument all Communists and Leftists in this country make to justify imposing the tyranny of the Welfare State via confiscatory taxation and punitive regulation to benefit those that empower politicians to lifetime political careers.

You're a parrot of everything Marx and Engels wrote.

You're saying the Constitution doesn't permit Congress to provide for the general welfare?    What's your view of Social Security?  Just another Commie plot?

You are truly this forum's font of mythology.     
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #296 on: March 17, 2017, 12:51:26 pm »
Interesting observations.  So, how does one answer the accusation that sacrificing to send one's child to a good school is elitist and should not be allowed because it tilts the playing field away from disadvantaged children, who didn't get lucky in the lottery of life?

Answer it any way you want.   Of course I'm going to sacrifice to help my kids as much as I have the means to do so.   Neither one of 'em ever gave me a bit of trouble growing up.  No drugs, no irresponsible behavior.   Money, ultimately, is meaningless  - having good kids is how I hit the lottery in life.   There's nothing I'm more proud of in this world.

And as for your specific question,  that's why I support school choice.    Lack of money doesn't mean a lack of caring.  Poor parents who are motivated to see their kids rise ought to be able to send them to a school with the kind of environment where they'll learn skills and values.     
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 12:56:58 pm by Jazzhead »
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #297 on: March 17, 2017, 12:54:14 pm »
You're saying the Constitution doesn't permit Congress to provide for the general welfare?    What's your view of Social Security?  Just another Commie plot?

You are truly this forum's font of mythology.     

You are blatantly misrepresenting what the "general welfare" of the nation means.

Online bigheadfred

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #298 on: March 17, 2017, 01:36:51 pm »

The system works well for certain conditions, but if you have to take a drug that is either on-patent, or only manufactured by one maker, then you are basically screwed.


The important thing is that you're alive at least.

When a company is holding onto a life saving drug so they can make a 5000% profit (or more) that seems wrong to me. I knew three people that died of what I had.  They all basically committed suicide. They gave up because they thought they had no hope for treatment. I doubt they show as a statistic of dying from the disease.

 I think the government should be involved in in health care at least to the extent of reducing predatory practices.

When my wife had gall bladder issues, shortly after my employer based HC ended because of the ACA, our GP sent us to a surgeon for a consultation. He treated us like crap and told her to go to the emergency room if she thought she had a problem. Then told us he wasn't going to charge us for wasting his time. So I took her to the ER. They ran some tests and did surgery a few hours later. The damn thing burst during the surgery and they spent some extra time rinsing.

The upshot is this first surgeon sent us a bill later because they called him in for a consult before her surgery. That went over like a brick shithouse. I called that SOB and cursed a blue streak. And never paid him a dime.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Larry Kudlow: The government needs to pay 50% of healthcare costs
« Reply #299 on: March 17, 2017, 01:43:05 pm »
You're saying the Constitution doesn't permit Congress to provide for the general welfare?    What's your view of Social Security?  Just another Commie plot?

You are truly this forum's font of mythology.     
Providing for the General Welfare meant creating an environment in which individuals and trade could flourish, not cradle to grave support for the masses. That meaning of "Welfare" goes back to the 1960s and LBJ's 'Great Society'--before that, it was called 'relief', because that is what it was intended to be, a last ditch stopgap for people in desperate straits to feed their families, and something to be avoided by anyone who had a sense of self respect.

In my view, Social Security was not general welfare, but an unconstitutional retirement gimmie for the folks who were already old and would never pay in as much as they were going to collect. It bought votes, but even more insidiously, it undermined private pensions and savings as well as the tendency for the young in an extended family to look after their elders. Considering that it has undermined economic self-sufficiency, the extended family, and the continuity those offered Americans, it may well have been a "Commie plot", rooted in the socialism so popular in the era.
Now, it has become a retirement fund for those working for wages who are unable to accumulate more or a widows and orphans fund paid out of the worker's paychecks, or a disability fund, with benefits based on the payments a worker has made into it, paid for over their working lives, (but the funds were stolen by Congress to buy votes with other unsustainable programs which were not earned nor paid into, commonly called "welfare" today).

The founders warned against the people being able to vote themselves benefits from the public coffers, and they were right.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 01:44:36 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis