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rangerrebew

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Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« on: February 16, 2017, 09:43:58 pm »
Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
By Tia Ghose, Senior Writer | February 16, 2017 10:54am ET

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Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
A new material that is as thin as aluminum foil can be used to cool houses or power plants without using any electricity or water. The material manipulates the properties of light to reflect the sun's rays while allowing objects beneath it to passively radiate heat to cool off.
Credit: Glenn Asakawa

A heat-reflecting, futuristic supermaterial that looks like a roll of plastic wrap could one day cool both houses and power plants without using any energy, according to a new study.

Unlike solar panels, the material keeps working even when the sun sets, with no additional electricity. And the plastic wrap is made up of cheap, simple-to-produce materials that could be easily mass-produced on rolls.

"We feel that this low-cost manufacturing process will be transformative for real-world applications," Xiaobo Yin, a mechanical engineer and materials scientist at the University of Colorado Boulder, said in a statement.


Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2017, 11:04:31 pm »
Residents of Phoenix rejoice. I guess we will see if this catches on. Remind me to check Home Depot in 5 years for it.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline Joe Wooten

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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2017, 11:33:02 pm »
OK, there were not enough thermodynamic details for a thermo/heat transfer geek like me to make a judgement, but.....

1) I want to see how cool it keeps a typical house during a typical Texas/NM/AZ summer day.
2) A little unappreciated benefit of an AC system is de-humidification. Getting the excessive moisture out of the air is a great benefit to humid areas like Houston/Dallas/New Orleans/Atlanta/Miami. How does this wrap get rid of the humidity? (I bet it does not)
3) What is the production cost going to be, and let's be realistic? Are they going to try to get a federal subsidy?


Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2017, 11:39:24 pm »
Will it keep my laptop cool so the internal fan doesn't roar like a lion every time I turn around?
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too. -Yogi Berra

Offline Joe Wooten

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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2017, 11:42:50 pm »
Will it keep my laptop cool so the internal fan doesn't roar like a lion every time I turn around?

Sorry, but no. The heat on your laptop is self-generated internally so the fan will need to keep running. The processors generate and incredible amount of heat when running.

Oceander

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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2017, 11:48:59 pm »
Will it keep my laptop cool so the internal fan doesn't roar like a lion every time I turn around?

Nope.  And if the fan is roaring, the vents are probably clogged with dust.  You may want to get a can of compressed air to clean them out.  A CPU that doesn't get adequate cooling will burn itself up. 

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2017, 11:50:50 pm »
1) I want to see how cool it keeps a typical house during a typical Texas/NM/AZ summer day.

I'll bet not anywhere near as good as a foot and a half of cob or mud bricks...

Quote
2) A little unappreciated benefit of an AC system is de-humidification. Getting the excessive moisture out of the air is a great benefit to humid areas like Houston/Dallas/New Orleans/Atlanta/Miami. How does this wrap get rid of the humidity? (I bet it does not)

I'll bet not anywhere near as good as a foot and a half of cob or mud bricks...


Quote
3) What is the production cost going to be, and let's be realistic? Are they going to try to get a federal subsidy?

I'll bet not anywhere near as little as a foot and a half of cob or mud bricks...


Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2017, 12:13:53 am »
Sorry, but no. The heat on your laptop is self-generated internally so the fan will need to keep running. The processors generate and incredible amount of heat when running.

True, but the article indicates that this new material could be used to cool a power plant.  I would think a power plant would internally generate a great deal more heat than my piddly little laptop.

*Disclaimer - I am no kind of an engineer, so I happily admit I don't really know what I'm talking about!
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too. -Yogi Berra

Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2017, 12:14:44 am »
Nope.  And if the fan is roaring, the vents are probably clogged with dust.  You may want to get a can of compressed air to clean them out.  A CPU that doesn't get adequate cooling will burn itself up.

You aren't lying.  I had one that nearly gave up the ghost that way many years back. 

This one doesn't actually roar; it just sounds that way because it always seems to kick on when I'm in the middle of hosting a web meeting / conference call and I find it excessively annoying.   [/whine off]
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too. -Yogi Berra

Offline Joe Wooten

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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2017, 12:46:53 am »
True, but the article indicates that this new material could be used to cool a power plant.  I would think a power plant would internally generate a great deal more heat than my piddly little laptop.

*Disclaimer - I am no kind of an engineer, so I happily admit I don't really know what I'm talking about!

Take their claims of cooling a power plant with a HUGE grain of salt. I think those guys are way too lab bound and have no idea of the waste heat generated in a thermal power plant. The average modern steam plant is at best about 45% efficient and generates too much heat for mere radiative cooling to handle. Radiative cooling is a very small portion of the cooling mechanism in the main condenser. Convective and conductive cooling handles 90%+ of the cooling load. Radiation cooling is simply way too slow the condenser would eventually get too hot and lose vacuum, tripping the plant offline in a very few minutes.

Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2017, 01:06:01 am »
Take their claims of cooling a power plant with a HUGE grain of salt. I think those guys are way too lab bound and have no idea of the waste heat generated in a thermal power plant. The average modern steam plant is at best about 45% efficient and generates too much heat for mere radiative cooling to handle. Radiative cooling is a very small portion of the cooling mechanism in the main condenser. Convective and conductive cooling handles 90%+ of the cooling load. Radiation cooling is simply way too slow the condenser would eventually get too hot and lose vacuum, tripping the plant offline in a very few minutes.

It does seem pretty far-fetched.
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2017, 01:18:21 am »
When laid across objects in the midday sun, the bottom layer of silver reflected almost all the visible light that hit it: The film absorbed only about 4% of incoming photons. At the same time, the film sucked heat out of whatever surface it was sitting on and radiated that energy at a mid-IR frequency of 10 micrometers. Because few air molecules absorb IR at that frequency, the radiation drifts into empty space without warming the air or the surrounding materials, causing the objects below to cool by as much as 10°C. Just as important, Yin notes that the new film can be made in a roll-to-roll setup for a cost of only $0.25 to $0.50 per square meter.

“This is very nice work demonstrating a pathway toward large-scale applications of the concept of radiative cooling,” says Fan, who did not work on the current project. Yin says that he and his colleagues are already working on one such application, chilling water that could then be used to cool buildings and other large structures. That could be particularly useful in electricity-generating power plants, where cooling water even a few degrees can increase energy production efficiency by a percentage point or two, a “big gain,” Yin says. And without the silver backing, he adds, the plastic film could also increase the power generation from solar cells, which operate more efficiently at lower temperatures.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/02/cheap-plastic-film-cools-whatever-it-touches-10-c

Oceander

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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2017, 02:05:34 am »
You aren't lying.  I had one that nearly gave up the ghost that way many years back. 

This one doesn't actually roar; it just sounds that way because it always seems to kick on when I'm in the middle of hosting a web meeting / conference call and I find it excessively annoying.   [/whine off]

Would a cooling pad help?

Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2017, 02:17:32 am »
Would a cooling pad help?

Funny you should ask!  I just got one last week, and it has helped quite a bit.

Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too. -Yogi Berra

Offline Joe Wooten

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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2017, 02:31:14 am »
When laid across objects in the midday sun, the bottom layer of silver reflected almost all the visible light that hit it: The film absorbed only about 4% of incoming photons. At the same time, the film sucked heat out of whatever surface it was sitting on and radiated that energy at a mid-IR frequency of 10 micrometers. Because few air molecules absorb IR at that frequency, the radiation drifts into empty space without warming the air or the surrounding materials, causing the objects below to cool by as much as 10°C. Just as important, Yin notes that the new film can be made in a roll-to-roll setup for a cost of only $0.25 to $0.50 per square meter.

“This is very nice work demonstrating a pathway toward large-scale applications of the concept of radiative cooling,” says Fan, who did not work on the current project. Yin says that he and his colleagues are already working on one such application, chilling water that could then be used to cool buildings and other large structures. That could be particularly useful in electricity-generating power plants, where cooling water even a few degrees can increase energy production efficiency by a percentage point or two, a “big gain,” Yin says. And without the silver backing, he adds, the plastic film could also increase the power generation from solar cells, which operate more efficiently at lower temperatures.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/02/cheap-plastic-film-cools-whatever-it-touches-10-c

Yes, it might be able to do that, but it depends upon the surface area of the cooling water lake or the flowrate of the river. Seaside plants can go down deep and get cold seawater year-round, but if a lake and/or the condenser was not sized correctly, that might help if it can cool the water fast enough. I work in the nuclear industry and my main job is figuring out how to maximize MW production. Comanche Peak, where I started, had a lake that was only about 2/3 the necessary surface area for the heat dumped into it, and in late summer, I saw inlet temperatures as high as 103F. The plant was designed for a maximum of 95F, and the losses increased dramatically after 100F. The condenser really needed to be about 15% bigger given the constraints of the terrain limited Squaw Creek Lake to the size it was built to. It probably would take covering the entire lake with this film to make a difference, and then it would be necessary only in the summer (Texas summer April-November). Violent thunderstorms would probably rip it to shreds several times a year.

The Dresden plant is cooled by both the Illinois River and a small shallow lake built out of old strip mines. We used to have to cut back on power production to keep from exceeding the maximum discharge temperature to the river until one guy had the brilliant idea to put forced draft cooling towers on the canals that routed discharged cooling water through the lake before it went to the river (it took 3 days to go through the lake before it was discharged into the river). That gave enough of a cooling boost to keep from backing off on power for most summers. Again, it would take a LOT of the film to cover the entire lake and it would have to be taken up before winter hit and it was ripped to pieces by snowstorms, and if the water gets too cold, then you lose efficiency too.

Plants like Seabrook, Diablo Canyon, or Turkey Point can get far enough out to tap deep cold seawater and usually do not see much variation in circ water inlet temperature, and again radiative cooling works too slowly to just out this film over the water discharge canal, the hot water simply moves too fast to get any benefit.

I've been seeing these pie-in-the-sky lab products touted as the next engineering miracle since I graduated engineering school in 1979. Show me it works reliably long term before I consent to using any of my money on it, and even then, it better have a very good payback period.

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2017, 03:32:30 am »
It's easy!


Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2017, 04:52:23 am »
It's easy!


Why wear a hat when you can tinfoil the whole house?

If you flip it over, will it warm things up?
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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2017, 08:03:52 am »
By the description, it's shiny.

How you going to get that past the HOA?
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2017, 09:32:39 am »
By the description, it's shiny.

How you going to get that past the HOA?
No HOA. I refuse to live under the petty tyranny of one.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline thackney

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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2017, 11:06:11 pm »
No HOA. I refuse to live under the petty tyranny of one.

 :thumbsup3:
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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2017, 11:14:05 pm »
Will it keep my laptop cool so the internal fan doesn't roar like a lion every time I turn around?



$13.99 at Walmart dotcom and worth it. It blows hard enough to keep my laptop cool. Just put a book or binder under the back part of the feet to tilt it down a little.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 11:18:15 pm by geronl »

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2017, 11:16:33 pm »
No HOA. I refuse to live under the petty tyranny of one.

Never ever... ever. I live on a little redneck row with McMansions on two sides... Them poor idiots have to rent space from us to keep their motor homes on, since they can't keep the at home.

Hopefully my health will get better - good enough to get back out in the sticks, where you don;t have to pay mind to such nonsense... An old rancher I used to work for has a twenty acre bottom across the river from his main place... He can't use it... sounds like he has it marked out for me... Wouldn't that be a kick. 15 miles out of town, and 10 of that on dirt road.

Offline EC

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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2017, 11:30:54 pm »
Here's hoping your health improves!

Though getting yourself out there might be a good chunk of cure in it's own right.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Energy-Free AC? Heat-Reflecting Wrap Could Cool Without Power
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2017, 11:54:03 pm »
Here's hoping your health improves!

@EC
I'm in my 5th year out of a wheelchair... just takes time to get all that stuff working right again... Mostly just weakened frame and tendons - It takes nothing for me to wreck a knee or pull a tendon... Just sat on my ass for another year over just such a thing... Slow and easy does the trick. And I am getting better all the time. Thanks for the good wishes.

Quote
Though getting yourself out there might be a good chunk of cure in it's own right.

That's a fact. Nothing better than a dirt road, rain on a tin roof, and a big jug of sweet tea... And fencing that place, raising a cabin, barn, and shop... getting a few Appaloosas to train up as mountain ponies... Heaven can't be much better than that.