Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today

[EC]

THEN SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE HAD SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE.  END OF PROBLEM.
<snips>

Note from the peanut gallery. I am now convinced you somehow jumped straight from ten years old to thirty.

You were certainly never a teenager, full of piss and vinegar and totally bulletproof.

[r9etb]

Note from the peanut gallery. I am now convinced you somehow jumped straight from ten years old to thirty.

You were certainly never a teenager, full of piss and vinegar and totally bulletproof.

Good point.  It's an attitude that doesn't help us at all in discussions about abortion.  If we forget our compassion for women (and girls) who find themselves in a difficult situation then we have no chance of changing things.

[Jazzhead]

That is beyond SICK and disgusting reasoning.  It's pure evil thinking.

I am proud to defend individual liberty and the protections of the Constitution.   

What's disgusting is your demand of "rights for me but not for thee".  Why should women be second class citizens?   They may be slaves to their sexual partners according to your religion,  but the Constitution says they get to make these decisions for themselves. 

[Jazzhead]

Good point.  It's an attitude that doesn't help us at all in discussions about abortion.  If we forget our compassion for women (and girls) who find themselves in a difficult situation then we have no chance of changing things.

 

Thanks for that.  I want the pro-life argument to prevail - within the confines of the Constitution.   

[EC]

Good point.  It's an attitude that doesn't help us at all in discussions about abortion.  If we forget our compassion for women (and girls) who find themselves in a difficult situation then we have no chance of changing things.

We were blessed (by Loki, I think) with 5 girls to the one boy. Their teen years are the reason I am bald.

[TomSea]

And Slaves and the Handicapped, etc. have been second class citizens in the past as well; one could say the Unborn are being made 2nd class citizens above.

Also, Mods, I know we were just corrected, I'm not sure if I have issued thinly veiled insults but JH is slamming Christianity as being "your religion".  Scapegoating Christianity.

[TomSea]

Again, since, we are getting retreaded arguments,

The Constitution also protects and believes in the States rights to legislate where abortion is concerned and have upheld the right in the SCOTUS.

They have upheld the personal liberty of the citizens of the Republic as well regarding this.

So, this is not unconstitutional.

[TomSea]

Again, the Founding Fathers, John Adams in particular, warned against interpreting the Constitution without moral guidance, perhaps those who are slamming religion just have a different religion, belief system in secularism.

Interpreting the Constitution without moral guidance becomes dangerous. The FFs said it.

[Hoodat]

Changing the subject somewhat, "According to the US Department of Justice, blacks accounted for 52.5% of all homicide offenders .  .  .

Higher abortion rate results in higher murder rate.   There is a cost on society when life is devalued.

[Jazzhead]

And Slaves and the Handicapped, etc. have been second class citizens in the past as well; one could say the Unborn are being made 2nd class citizens above.

Also, Mods, I know we were just corrected, I'm not sure if I have issued thinly veiled insults but JH is slamming Christianity as being "your religion".  Scapegoating Christianity.

I'm a Christian myself, TS.  But I doubt I belong to the same religion as Invar. 

[EC]

Again, the Founding Fathers, John Adams in particular, warned against interpreting the Constitution without moral guidance, perhaps those who are slamming religion just have a different religion, belief system in secularism.

Interpreting the Constitution without moral guidance becomes dangerous. The FFs said it.

Wish they'd put more in writing than they did - and that's not a knock.

All the founding fathers were well educated - which meant a LOT different back then. They had a depth of knowledge of philosophy which isn't matched today by so called specialists. 

[INVAR]

Note from the peanut gallery. I am now convinced you somehow jumped straight from ten years old to thirty.

You were certainly never a teenager, full of piss and vinegar and totally bulletproof.

Does unprotected sex outside of marriage create the problem of abortion or not?

[INVAR]

I'm a Christian myself, TS.  But I doubt I belong to the same religion as Invar.

No, we are not the same faith.

I don't cherish the murder of infants and deviant behavior as an inherent right.

[TomSea]

Wish they'd put more in writing than they did - and that's not a knock.

All the founding fathers were well educated - which meant a LOT different back then. They had a depth of knowledge of philosophy which isn't matched today by so called specialists. 

I think one can find pros and cons as with everything per what the Founding Fathers said.

Here is what James Wilson, Founding Father said:

“With consistency, beautiful and undeviating, human life from its commencement to its close, is protected by the common law. In the contemplation of law, life begins when the infant is first able to stir in the womb. By the law, life is protected not only from immediate destruction, but from every degree of actual violence, and in some cases, from every degree of danger.”

http://www.lifeissues.net/writers/tay/tay_03foundingfather.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Wilson

[Jazzhead]

No, we are not the same faith.

I don't cherish the murder of infants and deviant behavior as an inherent right.

And I believe in Christ's message of compassion.   No, our two faiths appear to have little in common.   

[Cyber Liberty]

We were blessed (by Loki, I think) with 5 girls to the one boy. Their teen years are the reason I am bald.

Six??  Definitely Loki.   

[EC]

Does unprotected sex outside of marriage create the problem of abortion or not?

Partially. You also have unprotected sex within marriage - not every abortion is some single roundheels trollop, not by a long chalk. Affairs, within and without marriage. Underage sex - which is under reported. Contraceptive failure. Rarely rape, sometimes incest.

So, what's your beef about providing contraception? You were complaining about it a couple pages back. Is it or is it not a hell of a sight cheaper and more beneficial to a moral society than supporting illegitimate children?

Think carefully before you answer, because if you get your way regarding a ban on abortions, that question IMMEDIATELY becomes number one on the hit parade.

[TomSea]

Utah really makes the perfect example of why States should have some control at a minimum; they are a heavily Mormon/Latter Day Saints state; and how "progressive" abortion laws really aren't accepted by the community.

States rights, not a one-size fits all law.

[Hoodat]

Thanks for that.  I want the pro-life argument to prevail - within the confines of the Constitution.

Yet you embrace Roe which falls completely outside the confines of the Constitution.

[Cyber Liberty]

Yet you embrace Roe which falls completely outside the confines of the Constitution.

I think we might be moving toward the nub of the thing, so to speak.  While this is a thread about abortion, it's even more a thread about the proper application of the Constitution.  Maybe if we look in that direction we might get some of the emotion out of this argument (which has been going for days and hundreds of posts) so we can find something to agree upon, or at least agree to disagree?

[Bigun]

I think we might be moving toward the nub of the thing, so to speak.  While this is a thread about abortion, it's even more a thread about the proper application of the Constitution.  Maybe if we look in that direction we might get some of the emotion out of this argument (which has been going for days and hundreds of posts) so we can find something to agree upon, or at least agree to disagree?

I agree 1000% with the Hoodat statement you quoted!  Always have!

[INVAR]

And I believe in Christ's message of compassion.   No, our two faiths appear to have little in common.   

No, my faith doesn't lift up abomination and murder as rights to be championed, cherished and to be compassionate about. 

And neither does the Constitution DESPITE your insistence that it does.

[r9etb]

Does unprotected sex outside of marriage create the problem of abortion or not?

No, not directly.  Abortion is seen as a remedy for an unwanted pregnancy.  It would be odd indeed if unmarried women got abortions just because they were having sex.

And lest you forget: married women get abortions, too.

As a side note, you really ought to consider toning down your arguments. 

[sneakypete]

So I guess what it all comes down to in todays accepted societal norms, is that people who WANT a baby - (the little creature growing inside the mother) is a life, and if it is not wanted - then it it not a life.

Should be simple enough then to argue that my MIL is not a life then, and Euthanasia is the way to go.

@INVAR

Personal insult deleted--Mod1

[INVAR]

So, what's your beef about providing contraception?

I have no problem with anyone purchasing and using contraception if they do not want children.  Using Abortion to do it is murder.  Period.

As to sex outside of marriage - that is not what the institution of marriage was created for.

As to the notion of illegitimate children - see the above comment.  Abiding that principle goes mightily towards eliminating the root cause of both abortions and unwanted children.

But no one wants to discuss or think about that - because in this culture - responsibility is someone else's problem and expense to bear.