Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today

[Bigun]

LBJ and the Great Society.

 Ding! Ding! Ding!  We have a winner her folks!

[txradioguy]

Ding! Ding! Ding!  We have a winner her folks!

The Great Society replaced the father in low income families with the Federal Government as the daddy and it hasn't been the same since.

[INVAR]

Like you,  I oppose abortion.

Stop lying and dissembling.  Your posts here have illustrated quite clearly that you are a vociferous defender of the institution of murdering infants in the womb.  You insist that the Constitution grants a woman an inalienable right to kill her baby.  You insisted and argued that the ability to kill a baby must be kept legal.  If you "opposed" abortion, you would not have defended it as you have on this thread. If you opposed abortion, you would not advocate that the right to kill an infant is a Constitutional right and that it must be kept legal.

How stupid do you think all of us are here?  Your own arguments proves that the statement that you oppose abortion is pure bullshiite.

Unlike you,  I am willing to do something about it that works in the real world.

How John Kerry of you.   Advocating that death mills and the institution of infanticide are an inalienable Constitutional Right in one breath and then stating that you are against abortion because you support something that 'works in the real world' is beyond disingenuous.

On the left,  the movement to require insurance policies to provide contraception for free has, whatever else you may think about it,  undoubtedly helped reduce the number of abortions.   Abortions don't happen in good relationships, abortions don't happen when a child is planned.   

Unwanted pregnancies don't happen by osmosis either.  Keep the legs closed and the zippers up and this entire issue goes away.  Problem solved.

But you are not interested in that discussion. 

As for your 'free contraception' comment - nothing is ever 'free", especially coming from the government.  But we don't expect liberal thinkers to comprehend that truth, because money grows on the trees of rich people that liberal Leftists think the downtrodden and the sexually promiscuous are entitled to have handed to them.

Where the pro-life movement does the unborn a disservice is its insistence on fighting an unwinnable political war. 

As stupid as suggesting that fighting the Nazis was a huge disservice to the Jews in Europe back in the 40's.

Folks have asked me what the Constitutional foundation of Roe is, and the answer is really very simple:  Marbury v. Madison.

BWAHAHAAAHAHAAAHAHAAAHAHAAAAHHAAAA!!!!!!!!

That reality has existed for over 40 years now. 

And you'll be crowing the same crap in 40 years regarding ObamaCare and homosexual marriage being imposed on those who find those things abhorrent too.

It has existed for every woman of child-bearing age alive today. 

I don't care how long it has been going on.  Slavery existed for nearly 300 years in this country before it was dealt with decisively.  Should we have insisted that such institution should have been left alone?   Murder is abhorrent and wrong.  I don't care how you want to define when life begins or when a human is 'viable' or not.

So get real,  and stop pretending that agitation to ban abortion is doing the unborn any good.   Call a truce in the political war for the sake of the unborn, and let's all work together to persuade, support and otherwise act to make abortion obsolete.

You are an enemy to everything I believe in.  Why would I want a truce with an advocate for the death of infants and other evil as an untouchable Right??

Not.  Gonna.  Happen.

[r9etb]

The Great Society replaced the father in low income families with the Federal Government as the daddy and it hasn't been the same since.

True, as far as it goes.  But at the same time one has to factor in the weakening of marriage and sexual mores, and the idea that abortion can be used as a form of birth control. 

And on top of that the rise of a socialist bureaucratic state in which "helping people" amounts to a removal of personal responsibility, and a soul-crushing institutional assumption that those in the system are helpless, and cannot manage on their own.

[Jazzhead]

@txradioguy

It's funny that JH tells you that you don't get an opinion because you're a man, and then tells at least 3 women here that their opinion is wrong.

Every woman should be able to decide for herself.   If you only wanted the government to take away your right to decide, then I'd have no objection.   But that's not what you want - you want the government to take away the right of all women.   And since I have a wife and daughter,  why can't I stick up for them and say you're wrong?       

[Bigun]

The Great Society replaced the father in low income families with the Federal Government as the daddy and it hasn't been the same since.

Yep and it was done by design!

"I'll have those ni%%ers voting democrat for the next 100 years!"   LBJ

[chae]

The Supreme Court:  Dred Scott is not a "human being"
The Supreme Court:  A fetus is not a "human being"

[Bigun]

True, as far as it goes.  But at the same time one has to factor in the weakening of marriage and sexual mores, and the idea that abortion can be used as a form of birth control. 

And on top of that the rise of a socialist bureaucratic state in which "helping people" amounts to a removal of personal responsibility, and a soul-crushing institutional assumption that those in the system are helpless, and cannot manage on their own.

Another EXCELLENT point!

[TomSea]

Every woman should be able to decide for herself.   If you only wanted the government to take away your right to decide, then I'd have no objection.   But that's not what you want - you want the government to take away the right of all women.   And since I have a wife and daughter,  why can't I stick up for them and say you're wrong?       

The Constitution says the State has a right to legislate abortion; that you are saying "take away the right" is your interpretation.  The States have always had regulatory duties. If that doesn't fit in the community values of some states, I don't understand why you feel the need to force your views on others.

[INVAR]

How can it be "tyranny" to favor personal liberty and self-determination?   The tyranny I oppose is the tyranny of the majority.

You advocate murder and license and the tyranny to commit wholesale genocide on the unborn as a protected inalienable right.  I oppose and will forever remain hostile to people like you who push a culture of death and dismemberment and try to hide behind words like liberty, the Constitution and "persuasion" - but inside are nothing but a ravenous bloodthirsty wolf.

Religious zealots have no right to force a woman to reproduce...

THEN SHE SHOULD KEEP HER LEGS CLOSED AND SPERM OUT OF HER VAGINA!!!!!!

Since you insist that only a woman who is pregnant can decide to kill her baby and force society to accept her right to do so, then I submit that only women bear the responsibility to stop having promiscuous sex outside of marriage and if they don't want kids, to bear her own responsibility that she and her husband use the appropriate contraception.

That's plain logic, I frankly don't give a damn if you want to ascribe it to the Christians you hate.

[TomSea]

You advocate murder and license and the tyranny to commit wholesale genocide on the unborn as a protected inalienable right.  I oppose and will forever remain hostile to people like you who push a culture of death and dismemberment and try to hide behind words like liberty, the Constitution and "persuasion" - but inside are nothing but a ravenous bloodthirsty wolf.



THEN SHE SHOULD KEEP HER LEGS CLOSED AND SPERM OUT OF HER VAGINA!!!!!!

Since you insist that only a woman who is pregnant can decide to kill her baby and force society to accept her right to do so, then I submit that only women bear the responsibility to stop having promiscuous sex outside of marriage and if they don't want kids, to bear her own responsibility that she and her husband use the appropriate contraception.

That's plain logic, I frankly don't give a damn if you want to ascribe it to the Christians you hate.

This is right;

As I've heard others say it before, the woman has the right to choice before she has sex. To keep her legs closed.

So, because of the acts of two others, the baby is killed; who had nothing to do with the original decision.

[chae]

Noted atheist Christopher Hitchens was pro-life.
I know a good portion of pagan and wiccans who are pro-life as well. 
It's not a Christian issue, it's a basic humanity issue.

[r9etb]

The Supreme Court:  Dred Scott is not a "human being"
The Supreme Court:  A fetus is not a "human being"

Because Marbury vs. Madison, of course.   

@Jazzhead won't admit the similarity of his arguments to those employed by slave-owners 160 years ago.

However, both the pro-slavery and pro-abortion positions rely on the denial of the humanity and attendant basic human rights, for certain classes of people.

That said, he correctly points out the difficulties of unplanned/unwanted pregnancy, and it is incumbent upon us to find ways to address them that don't involve killing the child.

[TomSea]

These problems, societal,  may fester because life is not cherished; I've heard that before as well.

[Cyber Liberty]

Because Marbury vs. Madison, of course.   

@Jazzhead won't admit the similarity of his arguments to those employed by slave-owners 160 years ago.

However, both the pro-slavery and pro-abortion positions rely on the denial of the humanity and attendant basic human rights, for certain classes of people.

That said, he correctly points out the difficulties of unplanned/unwanted pregnancy, and it is incumbent upon us to find ways to address them that don't involve killing the child.

Stop making so much sense.  You're ruining the thread war.   

[Jazzhead]

The Supreme Court:  Dred Scott is not a "human being"
The Supreme Court:  A fetus is not a "human being"

The Constitution:  Black people cannot be enslaved.
The Constitution:  Women cannot be enslaved.

[INVAR]

The Constitution:  Black people cannot be enslaved.
The Constitution:  Women cannot be enslaved.

Only a desperately wicked and depraved mind would equate a pregnant woman who wants to kill her baby and not having the right to do so with being enslaved.

[Cyber Liberty]

The Constitution:  Black people cannot be enslaved.
The Constitution:  Women cannot be enslaved.

Nice dodge.  You've been declaring through this whole thread that what's written in the Constitution is poppycock, what really matters is what the SCOTUS tells us it means.  Maybe it's because the Constitution was written in Cursive?

[TomSea]

The Constitution:  Black people cannot be enslaved.
The Constitution:  Women cannot be enslaved.

Show us where the Constitution says pregnancy is slavery then?

Or is this another case, where one slams Christians but calls Muslims "our friends and neighbors"?

Showing inconsistency or shallow arguments, this needed to be said.

[INVAR]

Show us where the Constitution says pregnancy is slavery then?

Or is this another case, where one slams Christians but calls Muslims "our friends and neighbors"?

Showing inconsistency or shallow arguments, this needed to be said.

It seems the common denominator of his arguments is that people have an inalienable Constitutional right to engage in stupid behavior, and force very one else to accept it, acknowledge it, celebrate it, and/or be forced to do so - all in the name of liberty and freedom.

This guy is pushing licentiousness and murder - not Constitutional liberty.

That is what he hides his demonic arguments behind to try and give them justification.

[r9etb]

The Constitution:  Black people cannot be enslaved.
The Constitution:  Women cannot be enslaved.

OK, now you're just being silly.

Dred Scott was, of course, years before the adoption of the 13th Amendment, and its effect was to deny the basic human rights of an entire class of human beings.

And if you really, REALLY, want to make the argument that pregnancy=slavery, then you're nuts.

[Jazzhead]

And if you really, REALLY, want to make the argument that pregnancy=slavery, then you're nuts.

Ah, the personal attacks continue.  Of course, a mod has told me publicly that I can't respond in kind or I'll be banned. 

Here's the typical scenario:  Girl gets pregnant,  her partner runs off and isn't heard from again.  She's destitute and alone.  She hasn't the resources to raise a child.  But you want the government to ban abortion, and effectively force her  - against her will and self-interest - to endure nine months of misery,  plus hospitalization for a procedure that can have serious medical consequences. 

How the hell is that not involuntary servitude?  

There is no way the men on this forum would tolerate the kind of imposition on their liberty that they insist be suffered by a woman.   It is un-empathic and profoundly sexist.   

Damn right a woman has the Constitutional right to be free of involuntary servitude based on the government's notions of patriarchy and religion.   

[r9etb]

Ah, the personal attacks continue.  Of course, a mod has told me publicly that I can't respond in kind or I'll be banned. 

Oh, brother.... Look, JH - you basically said that pregnancy=slavery.  If you really want to make that argument, then you really are nuts.

Here's the typical scenario:  Girl gets pregnant,  her partner runs off and isn't heard from again.  She's destitute and alone.  She hasn't the resources to raise a child.  But you want the government to ban abortion, and effectively force her  - against her will and self-interest - to endure nine months of misery,  plus hospitalization for a procedure that can have serious medical consequences. 

How the hell is that not involuntary servitude?  

You can only make that argument (and it's a silly one anyway) if you don't consider what abortion really does.  But you never seem to want to go there.  You never acknowledge the death of the unborn child except with meaningless platitudes that deny her humanity.

There is no way the men on this forum would tolerate the kind of imposition on their liberty that they insist be suffered by a woman.   It is un-empathic and profoundly sexist.   

Damn right a woman has the Constitutional right to be free of involuntary servitude based on the government's notions of patriarchy and religion.

Really?  I would happily support a choice between prison, or real financial support until the child turns 18,  for the man who abandons his child in the way you describe.  How's that for an "imposition on liberty?"

[MOD3]

Lets back-off the veiled insults by making comparisons to demons and eatable legumes.

Keep it Civil

@TomSea
@r9etb
@INVAR

[INVAR]

Ah, the personal attacks continue.  Of course, a mod has told me publicly that I can't respond in kind or I'll be banned. 

Now you are acting like a baby. 

He specifically stated that if you want to make the argument that pregnancy = slavery, you're nuts.

So - if you want to make that argument - you fit the bill.  That's not a personal attack - he's identifying your argument for what it is.

Here's the typical scenario:  Girl gets pregnant,  her partner runs off and isn't heard from again.  She's destitute and alone.  She hasn't the resources to raise a child.  But you want the government to ban abortion, and effectively force her  - against her will and self-interest - to endure nine months of misery,  plus hospitalization for a procedure that can have serious medical consequences. 

THEN SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE HAD SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE.  END OF PROBLEM.

NO MURDER.

NO TAXPAYER FUNDED DEATH MILL NEEDED.

How the hell is that not involuntary servitude?  

INVOLUNTARY?????????  She spread her legs and let a guy impregnate her! 

It is un-empathic and profoundly sexist.   

You know what?  Ask us if we care about these emoting Liberal/Leftist and moronic reasonings you toss up as some kind of bulwark of compassion when all you are doing is advocating the murder of infants so people can have sex without consequences.

Damn right a woman has the Constitutional right to be free of involuntary servitude based on the government's notions of patriarchy and religion.

That is beyond SICK and disgusting reasoning.  It's pure evil thinking.