Author Topic: Hillary Clinton blew the most winnable election in modern American history.  (Read 20456 times)

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Offline jpsb

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Give it up already.  Losing over and over again during a primary season does not translate into winning a general election. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp.

@Right_in_Virginia

The Cruz faction of the #NeverTrumpers will never "get over it". To them and those in their cult it all about hating Trump because they think Trump took what rightfully belonged to Cruz.

All this talk about any of the other GOP candidate beating Hillary is nonsense. Remember this is coming from folks that told us over and over again that Trump can not win. They have zero credibility with any kind of political analysis. 

Trump beat all the other candidates and then he beat Hillary.

He beat everyone for one reason. He was the only authentic anti-establishment candidate. All the other major candidate were owned by Marxist globalists with the possible exception of Ted Cruz. Noticed I said "possible", lots of evidence points to Cruz being a globalist too. The voters have had it with globalism, open borders and one way trade deals. The corrupt DC establishment is the disease and Trump is the cure.

Every other candidate running was more of the same.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 02:26:11 pm by jpsb »

HonestJohn

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I know exactly who you are....
i have watched you up close for MANY YEARS..
The GOP has a huge mandate and to keep from getting INTO the sewer that you like to swim in.... I will say this....TRUMP IS NOT THE PRESIDENT YET...... WHY NOT WAIT UNTIL AFTER THE INAUGURATION.

You have  no idea who he  is.......JUST WAIT AND SEE!
YOU NEVER TRUMP PEOPLE ARE THE ANGRY ONES... YOU CANT STAND THAT WE ARE RIGHT!!!!
PITY YOU....   

Wow.  Paranoia much?

Offline musiclady

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I know exactly who you are....
i have watched you up close for MANY YEARS..
The GOP has a huge mandate and to keep from getting INTO the sewer that you like to swim in.... I will say this....TRUMP IS NOT THE PRESIDENT YET...... WHY NOT WAIT UNTIL AFTER THE INAUGURATION.

You have  no idea who he  is.......JUST WAIT AND SEE!
YOU NEVER TRUMP PEOPLE ARE THE ANGRY ONES... YOU CANT STAND THAT WE ARE RIGHT!!!!
PITY YOU....   

Calm down.

You won............... remember?

Stop with the self-righteous rage.


It's getting old.   **nononono*
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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He beat everyone for one reason. He was the only authentic anti-establishment candidate. All the other major candidate were owned by Marxist globalists with the possible exception of Ted Cruz. Noticed I said "possible", lots of evidence points to Cruz being a globalist too. The voters have had it with globalism, open borders and one way trade deals. The corrupt DC establishment is the disease and Trump is the cure.


 :silly:


Boy are you ever brainwashed.

Online Lando Lincoln

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Calm down.

You won............... remember?

Stop with the self-righteous rage.


It's getting old.   **nononono*

I agree.  Mr. Trump's election is now in the history books.  Those who supported him won and those who did not were disappointed.  Fairly straightforward, isn't it?

But with winning comes responsibility to deliver.

I happen to be one who never got around to supporting him.  I will say this, however; I hope I become a strident supporter of his reelection in 4 years.  I do.  Meanwhile, a whole lot of promises need to be kept, a whole lot of effective governing needs to happen, and a whole lot of strong statesmanship needs to be exhibited.  Strength of character and conviction regarding our Nation's best interest needs to be on full display.  Clumsy mistakes on the international front must be minimal or better yet, absent. 

The lip, the quip, and the tweet won't do it. 

But, I eagerly await the desire to put a Re-Elect Trump sign in my front yard in 2020.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 05:00:49 pm by Lando Lincoln »
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Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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I agree.  Mr. Trump's election is now in the history books.  Those who supported him won and those who did not were disappointed.  Fairly straightforward isn't it?

I happen to one who never got around to supporting him.  I will say this, however; I hope I become a strident supporter of his reelection in 4 years.  I do.  Meanwhile, a whole lot of promises need to be kept, a whole lot of effective governing needs to happen, and a whole lot of strong statesmanship needs to be exhibited.  Strength of character and conviction regarding our Nation's best interest needs to be on full display.  Clumsy mistakes on the international front must be minimal or better yet, absent. 

The lip, the quip, and the tweet won't do it. 

But, I eagerly await the desire to put a Re-Elect Trump sign in my front yard in 2020.


I'll agree with this. My trump wishes:


1) enough with the economic populism
2) be more disciplined. No more gaffes. Stop saying stupid things on twitter
3) get rid of the alt-right. Get rid of crazies like Flynn's idiot son
4) my biggest worry: don't turn the federal government into a kleptocracy. I don't want to have to continuously defend this garbage for the next 4 years.

Offline the_doc

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You are delusional, and as other posters have said - something just not right with you.

Trump barely won.  He almost blew the most winnable election in American POTUS history.  It if hadn't been for Julian Assange and the eleventh-hour re-investigation by the FBI, he probably would have lost.  I personally know many, many Hillary fanatics who woke up at the very last minute.

My point is that Oceander is not delusional.  I think the Trumpsters are flirting, at least, with delusions.  Trump was the lousiest candidate we had, but the GOPe secured his nomination anyway.  And I think recent indications are that many Trumpsters are already becoming disillusioned.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 05:44:11 pm by the_doc »

Offline Night Hides Not

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I'll agree with this. My trump wishes:


1) enough with the economic populism
2) be more disciplined. No more gaffes. Stop saying stupid things on twitter
3) get rid of the alt-right. Get rid of crazies like Flynn's idiot son
4) my biggest worry: don't turn the federal government into a kleptocracy. I don't want to have to continuously defend this garbage for the next 4 years.

No need to add to your post and Lando's, except that he ditches Twitter. 

@Lando Lincoln
You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.

1 John 3:18: Let us love not in word or speech, but in truth and action.

Oceander

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@Right_in_Virginia

The Cruz faction of the #NeverTrumpers will never "get over it". To them and those in their cult it all about hating Trump because they think Trump took what rightfully belonged to Cruz.

All this talk about any of the other GOP candidate beating Hillary is nonsense. Remember this is coming from folks that told us over and over again that Trump can not win. They have zero credibility with any kind of political analysis. 

Trump beat all the other candidates and then he beat Hillary.

He beat everyone for one reason. He was the only authentic anti-establishment candidate. All the other major candidate were owned by Marxist globalists with the possible exception of Ted Cruz. Noticed I said "possible", lots of evidence points to Cruz being a globalist too. The voters have had it with globalism, open borders and one way trade deals. The corrupt DC establishment is the disease and Trump is the cure.

Every other candidate running was more of the same.

Maybe that applies to the Cruz fans; doesn't apply to me (never was much of a Cruz fan).  Try again. 

Offline Frank Cannon

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I'll agree with this. My trump wishes:


1) enough with the economic populism
2) be more disciplined. No more gaffes. Stop saying stupid things on twitter
3) get rid of the alt-right. Get rid of crazies like Flynn's idiot son
4) my biggest worry: don't turn the federal government into a kleptocracy. I don't want to have to continuously defend this garbage for the next 4 years.

I made a point to see if you added Twitter to your gripe list. Good to see you are very consistent.


Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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I made a point to see if you added Twitter to your gripe list. Good to see you are very consistent.




Dick Cheney said that Trump was bypassing the press, which in and of itself is great. But Trump makes himself, and the country, look stupid with his Tweets.


Nothing wrong with Donny hiring a filter.


He can't even get his spelling right. One of his big statements the other day had a misspelling. Ridiculously stupid for President elect to have spelling mistakes in his communiques.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Trump barely one.  He almost blew the most winnable election in American POTUS history.

Trump won 306 EV's.  I don't consider that "barely".

It doesn't matter what you think he "almost" did @the_doc .  What matters is what Trump  actually accomplished--against a rabid, hostile media, against rabid, hostile NT's in his own party, against the hundreds of millions of dollars poured into Hillary Clinton's campaign by globalist special interest groups, Trump pulled off a stunning victory --- a victory heard and being echoed around the globe.

Trump did it all without the media, without the NT's, without special interest money and by shattering Clinton's blue wall---the same wall the pundits and haters laughed at him for trying to break through.

Pretty damn impressive.   ^-^

Offline goatprairie

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She was the slightly more unpopular of the two most unpopular candidates in modern history.
Yes...  :amen:

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Trump barely one.  He almost blew the most winnable election in American POTUS history.  It if hadn't been for Julian Assange and the eleventh-hour re-investigation by the FBI, he probably would have lost.  I personally know many, many Hillary fanatics who woke up at the very last minute.

My point is that Oceander is not delusional.  I think the Trumpsters are flirting, at least, with delusions.  Trump was the lousiest candidate we had, but the GOPe secured his nomination anyway. 

Honest question -- why do any of that matter in the slightest now?  And I'm say that with respect both to those who are attacking Trump, and those who are claiming some great victory.  Usually, the "mandate" issue is important because a President faces at least one house of Congress controlled by the other party, and so uses the "mandate" argument to pressure potential swing votes in Congress. But that's not the case here because the GOP controls both houses.  He won, and now has to work with the GOP Congress.  Whether we call his victory great or small makes no difference.

In terms of the pure politics of it, I do think it's noteworthy that he won while being so heavily outspent, and by largely bypassing the media filter to get his message out.  It's certainly interesting for political scientists.

Quote
And I think recent indications are that many Trumpsters are already becoming disillusioned.


I'm not sure how true that is except on the fringes.  Personally, I'd be somewhat pleased if some of his most ardent supporters are becoming disillusioned, because I didn't agree with him on a lot of things anyway.  But his approval rating overall has been climbing pretty consistently since the election, to the point where his favorability/unfavorability numbers are now even instead of being massively underwater.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-approval-rating-soars-96-of-supporters-hopeful/article/2607887
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 05:29:59 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline goatprairie

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I would say that most GOP candidates would have beat her, with the exceptions being the farther left they went, the less likely it would be that they would win.
After all, what would be the major differences?
Her own behavior as Secretary of State did her in, with the e-mails, and such.
Why democrats do not understand this is beyond me.
"Why democrats do not understand this is beyond me."

The pit of inability to see reality in Democrats is bottomless. I have a very liberal step-daughter and her husband. They really believed Hillary was the perfect candidate.
Of course, they were totally ignoring Hillary's many faults and  simply looking at The Orange Toad and not understanding how anybody could vote for him. They failed to understand that many people just thought Hillary was worse. Which she was.

Online Lando Lincoln

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Trump won 306 EV's.  I don't consider that "barely".

It doesn't matter what you think he "almost" did @the_doc .  What matters is what Trump  actually accomplished--against a rabid, hostile media, against rabid, hostile NT's in his own party, against the hundreds of millions of dollars poured into Hillary Clinton's campaign by globalist special interest groups, Trump pulled off a stunning victory --- a victory heard and being echoed around the globe.

Trump did it all without the media, without the NT's, without special interest money and by shattering Clinton's blue wall---the same wall the pundits and haters laughed at him for trying to break through.

Pretty damn impressive.   ^-^

He did.  And, it was.

Yet, he never resonated with me.  Now, he has an opportunity to convince me with job performance.  I hope he does.
There are some among us who live in rooms of experience we can never enter.
John Steinbeck

Offline LateForLunch

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There was only one poll that was consistently correct about Trump being in the lead from essentially day one after becoming the nominee - a national online poll application known as EZ Poll (used by commentator Larry Elder).

It is a ridiculously easy application. Once you join, you can put out any question to all of the other members. There are millions of members spread across the whole U.S.! That actually gives it a much broader spectrum than any poll from "mainstream" organization, since their sample is much smaller (generally less than 5000) and also confined to a specific region or area.

Also the EZ Polls are totally anonymous as the hosts do not collect personal information on the members. That last thing that makes EZ Poll superior is that it eliminates the "Bradley Effect" - a principle named after an election in the 1960s between Tom Bradley and Sam Yorty for L.A. mayor. Tom Bradley was significantly ahead in the polls right up to election day but lost anyway. Some pollsters came up with the explanation that many voters when asked on the street or the telephone lied about supporting Bradley because they did not want to be thought racists. Then on election day, those same people cast votes for Yorty.

Since EZ Polls are anonymous, nobody has to worry about giving a 100% honest response and the Bradley Effect is eliminated.

All of the other pollsters poo-poohed EZ Poll results, yet they turned out to be the correct one and the rest of the pollsters were full of crap.

There is also the effect that most polls only got about 85% coverage - which means that there was always about 15% of those asked who either refused to answer or said that they had not decided yet. The cartoonist who does Dilbert (a Trump supporter) said that he believes that most of that hidden, non-responsive 15% were Trump supporters who felt intimidated by all of the harsh anti-Trump fanaticism and therefore did their talking in the polling booth and refused to make their opinions known when asked about them prior.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 05:38:38 pm by LateForLunch »
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Offline the_doc

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@Right_in_Virginia

The Cruz faction of the #NeverTrumpers will never "get over it". To them and those in their cult it all about hating Trump because they think Trump took what rightfully belonged to Cruz.

All this talk about any of the other GOP candidate beating Hillary is nonsense. Remember this is coming from folks that told us over and over again that Trump can not win. They have zero credibility with any kind of political analysis. 

Trump beat all the other candidates and then he beat Hillary.

He beat everyone for one reason. He was the only authentic anti-establishment candidate. All the other major candidate were owned by Marxist globalists with the possible exception of Ted Cruz. Noticed I said "possible", lots of evidence points to Cruz being a globalist too. The voters have had it with globalism, open borders and one way trade deals. The corrupt DC establishment is the disease and Trump is the cure.

Every other candidate running was more of the same.

You are wrong about almost everything in that post.  You never understood the NeverTrump guys and gals, because you never listened to us. :nono:

Offline goatprairie

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Aren't you the won arguing an "alternate reality?"  What would have happened if someone other than Trump had won the nomination?

The only reality we actually have is the one in which Trump won both the nomination and the election.  He wasn't my guy in the primaries, but I'm glad as hell me managed to beat her.
Rubio was not in my top list of candidates in the primaries, but if had won the nomination, he probably would have beaten Hillary by anywhere from five to seven million votes.
You really have to look at how many average non-political types looked at Trump and Hillary, and it would not be difficult to see how many of them would go for a young, good-looking guy like Rubio who didn't have anywhere near the negatives Trump and Hillary had. And you certainly wouldn't have had the millions of NeverTrumpsters being NeverRubios.
 Trump won because Hillary was a lousy candidate. Even so, she still got two million more popular votes than Trump. If Trump was that super,  why didn't he win the popular vote?
I'm not ecstatic that Trump won, but I'm damn happy Hillary lost. That probably sums up the attitudes of millions of people, like me, who voted for Trump.

Offline goatprairie

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Well since the polls were so accurate. I'm sure the ones that said everyone else would lose were right on.  :whistle:
The polls weren't that far off. Many polls had it a tight election with Hillary having a slight lead at the end. That's exactly how it turned out. Hillary won two million more votes than Trump. In any other election in history that's good enough for a win. But Hillary lost key states. I'm not sorry she lost, however let's not exaggerate the extent of Trump's win.

Offline goatprairie

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As @EasyAce has said, most elections are between snake oil salesmen.  In this one, they offered snakes.

One of the snakes had to win.

It just happened to be Trump.
ha, ha :beer:

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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He did.  And, it was.

Yet, he never resonated with me.  Now, he has an opportunity to convince me with job performance.  I hope he does.

I do too.   ^-^

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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They really believed Hillary was the perfect candidate.

The argument I kept hearing from those types were "she was the most experienced/qualified candidate in history", which was a flat-out joke even if you took it on its own terms.  And it was usually accompanied by a statement that Trump was the "least qualified" candidate in history.

But I thought that such statements said more about the person who valued them than they did about Clinton.   There's the obvious retort that she doesn't have any experience at being successful -- just at occupying an office.  But implicit in that evaluation of the relative experience of Clinton/Trump is that having actual working experience in the private sector, in business formation, etc., is considered of no value at all.

That's really pretty remarkable given the incredible important of the role the federal government plays with respect to the private sector.  Laws, regulations, mandates, taxes, payrolls, labor issues, subsidies, profit-making....a lifelong professional politician has no significant experience at all in how those governmental actions actually affect the private sector.  So you'd think that having experience in all that would be incredibly valuable.  But instead, the diehard Clinton supporters consider that valueless.

Tell you a lot about them.


Offline LateForLunch

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Trump barely one.  He almost blew the most winnable election in American POTUS history.  It if hadn't been for Julian Assange and the eleventh-hour re-investigation by the FBI, he probably would have lost.  I personally know many, many Hillary fanatics who woke up at the very last minute.

My point is that Oceander is not delusional.  I think the Trumpsters are flirting, at least, with delusions.  Trump was the lousiest candidate we had, but the GOPe secured his nomination anyway.  And I think recent indications are that many Trumpsters are already becoming disillusioned.

Any discussions of Trump the candidate are moot. He is now Trump the president-elect and one must now appraise him as he goes - history or speculations  no longer apply.

Mark Levin, who supported Trump and still does IN SOME REGARDS, has never had any illusions about his status ideologically. Trump ran as a populist (what Levin calls an agrarian populist) and therefore can reasonably be expected to disappoint anyone who is a strident conservative.

Some of the things he will be doing in the first 100 days (and now he is already at work in some regard, even before the clock is ticking) will be to fulfill campaign promises - already a departure from the average president-elect because most candidates simply explain away not keeping promises that are not politically advantageous.

In the case of the Carrier  and Boeing issues, Trump is setting the tone for his administration to do what they say they will do, regardless of the political consequences. I expect that he will not be doctrinaire in that regard, but will govern according to what he believes is the correct thing to do both politically and in matters of administration as things evolve.

The fact that he probably wants to be reelected suggests that he will indeed govern using triangulation - with Congress and the People as the second and third parts of the structure (according to standard Machiavellian/Alinskyite principles of governance). 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 05:58:29 pm by LateForLunch »
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Online Lando Lincoln

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The argument I kept hearing from those types were "she was the most experienced/qualified candidate in history", which was a flat-out joke even if you took it on its own terms.  And it was usually accompanied by a statement that Trump was the "least qualified" candidate in history.

But I thought that such statements said more about the person who valued them than they did about Clinton.   There's the obvious retort that she doesn't have any experience at being successful -- just at occupying an office.  But implicit in that evaluation of the relative experience of Clinton/Trump is that having actual working experience in the private sector, in business formation, etc., is considered of no value at all.

That's really pretty remarkable given the incredible important of the role the federal government plays with respect to the private sector.  Laws, regulations, mandates, taxes, payrolls, labor issues, subsidies, profit-making....a lifelong professional politician has no significant experience at all in how those governmental actions actually affect the private sector.  So you'd think that having experience in all that would be incredibly valuable.  But instead, the diehard Clinton supporters consider that valueless.

Tell you a lot about them.

I agree completely.  Most people don't fully grasp that our Constitution allows for a citizen-President to be elected by the People (caps intended).
There are some among us who live in rooms of experience we can never enter.
John Steinbeck