What is Trump's appeal?

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

So, the US is undergoing a heroin epidemic and a lot of it, most, probably comes from Mexico, it's a source of crime and it is killing many Americans.

San Diego fence works,

Israel's border wall works.

The San Diego fence does not work, and the majority of the heroine (specifically fentanyl) comes from China through Canada and the Atlantic port cities, hence the massive issues with it along the east coast. The major issues with Mexican drug smuggling (at least in California) have been marijuana and cocaine. California happens to be the largest supplier of meth, so we've got that one covered.

[jpsb]

I agree, but the wall at the southern border doesn't do much good now. Have you ever been down to the Anza Borrego desert (east of San Diego)? It's a major passage into the U.S. For that matter, there're U.S. citizens that live between the wall and the border in Texas. The wall is basically the same as having a sign that says "Please don't trespass."

@StrangerInAStrangeLand

First is we are a country, globalist don't see it that way, Trump does. Next is how do we protect defend ourselves? Border security is more then walls, but walls do help, Trump "groks" that too. Welcome to TBR, hope to see more of you.

FYI Stranger In A Strange Land is a wonderful read.

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

I voted for Trump. I have been on a self-imposed sabbatical for awhile since this place went batshit crazy crammed full of nevertrump garbage, spewed by likely paid operatives, or the clinically insane.

Back to Trump. He offered

--Border sanity--wall or otherwise
--muslim refugee sanity--better screening, fewer admitted
--foreign policy sanity--don't give Iran nuclear capability and money on top of it.
--economic sanity--quit lying about unemployment, other aspects.
--trade sanity--quit making one sided trade agreements.
--integrity in government, contrasted with the norm for career political operatives.

--Didn't insult the good citizens of America, calling them "Deplorable" and "uneducated." (like the batshit carzy nevertrumps on THIS site did, too)

Guess what? Voters heard his appeal.

Ok, but how do those policies work? I wouldn't mind having a mission to Mars, wiping out the global nuclear stockpile, and giving all Americans cost effective energy sources, either - but none of that is easy. I think Trump instead insults our intelligence - he offers a lot of "sanity", but I can't find any substance to any of it. How will any of those policies become real?

[240B]

Regardless of how you feel about Trump, it will be fun to see what he does.


After all his bluster and promises, can he deliver or will he crash and burn?


Next year is going to be the most interesting year in politics in decades.
We shall see what we shall see.

[TomSea]

The San Diego fence does not work, and the majority of the heroine (specifically fentanyl) comes from China through Canada and the Atlantic port cities, hence the massive issues with it along the east coast. The major issues with Mexican drug smuggling (at least in California) have been marijuana and cocaine. California happens to be the largest supplier of meth, so we've got that one covered.

Disagree if you want but this has been written about in articles, it was also covered in the Republican candidate debates:

Where U.S.-Mexico border fence is tall, it works

Christian Science Monitor
Mar. 31, 2008 03:12 PM
YUMA - U.S. border patrol agent Michael Bernacke guns his SUV down the wide desert-sand road that lines the U.S.-Mexican border through urban San Luis, Ariz.

To his right stands a steel wall, 20 feet high and reinforced by cement-filled steel piping. To his left another tall fence of steel mesh. Ten yards beyond, a shorter cyclone fence is topped with jagged concertina wire. Visible to the north, through the gauze of fencing are the homes and businesses of this growing Southwest suburbia of 22,000 people.

"This wall works," Bernacke said. "A lot of people have the misconception that it is a waste of time and money, but the numbers of apprehensions show that it works."

The triple-and double-layered fence here in Yuma is the kind of barrier that U.S. lawmakers - and most Americans - imagined when the Secure Fence Act was enacted in 2006.

http://archive.azcentral.com/news/articles/0331yuma-wall0331-ON.html

Most heroin in U.S. now comes across Mexican border, Rob Portman says
   http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2016/mar/14/rob-portman/most-heroin-us-comes-over-mexican-border/

So again, we can disagree but let's say "Some" were to come through there, Trump likely wants an expansive program to block illegal contraband in many places.

Anyway, we have a whole "immigration" section here, where these issues are discussed more in depth.

By Libertarian, I will go the Ron Paul route, Gary Johnson may be a libertarian too; but that label is likely to pertain to a lot of points of views, if one says "well, I'm libertarian."

[dfwgator]

On that we agree.

So will Trump build "The Wall"?

He can't just wave his magic wand and make the Wall happen, but what he can do is use it as the starting point in the negotiation and then work through it and get substantial immigration reform in the end.....Reach for the stars,   hit the Moon.  That's the "Art of the Deal".  I hope that if we do get immigration reform that satisfies most of what we want, folks won't dwell on it if "The Wall" isn't a part of that.

[TomSea]

Ok, but how do those policies work? I wouldn't mind having a mission to Mars, wiping out the global nuclear stockpile, and giving all Americans cost effective energy sources, either - but none of that is easy. I think Trump instead insults our intelligence - he offers a lot of "sanity", but I can't find any substance to any of it. How will any of those policies become real?

Read Pat Buchanan, Anne Coulter and many other writers, I don't think it can all be answered here.

It sounds like your version of libertarianism is Gary Johnson styled which didn't even garner 5%; so, speaking of insulting people's intelligence.

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

@StrangerInAStrangeLand

First is we are a country, globalist don't see it that way, Trump does. Next is how do we protect defend ourselves? Border security is more then walls, but walls do help, Trump "groks" that too. Welcome to TBR, hope to see more of you.

FYI Stranger In A Strange Land is a wonderful read.

Agreed, Stranger In A Strange Land is a very good read. I wouldn't say Trump groks border security, I'd say he groks the lights and distraction of the media. In the end, it seems like he's selling us a free lunch.

I think there's definitely a disparity between those who have been helped and hindered by globalism, but protectionism doesn't seem like a viable answer to that. We've been the economic powerhouse of the world for the last 50 years because we transitioned our economy from things everyone could make to things only we could make. Aerospace, the tech industries, pharma, advanced polymers - we've led the world because nobody else could catch up with us. I'd like to see us creating new industries, not trying to save the old ones that everyone else has.

[TomSea]

This should be moved to "member contributions", this is becoming a bit of a vanity; and news stories are posted here.

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Disagree if you want but this has been written about in articles, it was also covered in the Republican candidate debates:

So again, we can disagree but let's say "Some" were to come through there, Trump likely wants an expansive program to block illegal contraband in many places.

Anyway, we have a whole "immigration" section here, where these issues are discussed more in depth.

By Libertarian, I will go the Ron Paul route, Gary Johnson may be a libertarian too; but that label is likely to pertain to a lot of points of views, if one says "well, I'm libertarian."

Interesting article on heroine, I was unaware of that. I'll have to do some more research. I appreciate it. On the wall issue - they just don't come in where the wall is effective. They go around it, over it, or under it. I'd wager it would be more effective to put people and drones on the border to monitor it and use the left over funds to deal with the demand issue here in the U.S.

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Which means diddly squat.    You play the game according to the rules,  the goal was to win the EC, not the popular vote.  Had the popular vote been the criteria for victory, Trump takes a completely different approach, going more for votes in California, etc.

I completely agree. The system is not built around the popular vote, and the entire argument of "half the country hates x" is worthless.

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

No, no, and no.

First off, the government should NOT be in the business of driving the economy.  Therefore demand/supply side are BOTH wrong.

Secondly, taking money from some people and giving it to others is NOT "the government leaving it alone, eg, Laissez Faire."  BTW, why do both of your descriptions of economic stimulous  refer to the govenment "giving" something to someone?

Finally, even if we accept your premise that the government should "do something", anyone who made it through week one of Econ 101 can draw out the supply and demand curves to demonstrate that while both approaches raise economic output (if we completely and utterly ignore the damage done by taking the money out of the economy in the first place, government money multiplier my left foot), demand side stimulus causes price inflation, while supply side stimulus causes price deflation.

The dollar is a fiat currency, and its purchasing power is based on our GDP relative to the rest of the world and the amount of it in circulation. Every dollar in existence is given away by the government (or manufactured illegally). If we want stop using fiat currency, then fine, we can stop giving away money. The money supply is finite, but it's not static - adding money to the supply does not mean taking it from somewhere else. Currency valuation and supply manipulation is a little outside of Econ 101, but it's the same basic concept - demand for currency drives supply for currency. Price inflation is not a result of demand, it's a result of supply limitations. Price inflation encourages growth to supply that demand, and that in turn pushes up our GDP and the value of our currency, increasing our purchasing power. Price deflation caused by supply side drivers causes overproduction and actually deflates the value of our currency in foreign markets, decreasing our actual purchasing power.

[DCPatriot]

On that we agree.

So will Trump build "The Wall"?

Ann Coulter said, "You can walk into any of Trump's buildings...get into an elevator....and order a creme brulee a 1/2 mile in the sky.....Trump can build the Wall!"   

 

But I understand you said "will".

[DCPatriot]

This should be moved to "member contributions", this is becoming a bit of a vanity; and news stories are posted here.

I agree.

[Bigun]

The dollar is a fiat currency, and its purchasing power is based on our GDP relative to the rest of the world and the amount of it in circulation. Every dollar in existence is given away by the government (or manufactured illegally). If we want stop using fiat currency, then fine, we can stop giving away money. The money supply is finite, but it's not static - adding money to the supply does not mean taking it from somewhere else. Currency valuation and supply manipulation is a little outside of Econ 101, but it's the same basic concept - demand for currency drives supply for currency. Price inflation is not a result of demand, it's a result of supply limitations. Price inflation encourages growth to supply that demand, and that in turn pushes up our GDP and the value of our currency, increasing our purchasing power. Price deflation caused by supply side drivers causes overproduction and actually deflates the value of our currency in foreign markets, decreasing our actual purchasing power.

The only part you got right in that is "The dollar is Fiat currency..."

[Ghost Bear]

meh... there seems to be no point in trying to explain, and the popcorn seems a little over-done. 

[Wingnut]

meh... there seems to be no point in trying to explain, and the popcorn seems a little over-done. 

This guy reminds me of someone...can't put my finger on it just yet....

[Frank Cannon]

This should be moved to "member contributions", this is becoming a bit of a vanity; and news stories are posted here.

No Tom. This should be moved into the shithouse and flushed.

[Wingnut]

No Tom. This should be moved into the shithouse and flushed.

Its your fault Frank.  He/she/it followed you over from the DU.

[Frank Cannon]

This guy reminds me of someone...can't put my finger on it just yet....

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

The only part you got right in that is "The dollar is Fiat currency..."

Ok, then explain it to me. It's been years since my college economics course, and I'm certainly not infallible. I would honestly like to learn, but your response does not provide anything meaningful.

[Ghost Bear]

I must admit - I don't understand Trump's appeal. I'm a liberal, in some sense - and I'd identify socially with classical libertarians. Economically I'm a supporter of demand side economics in the sense that Ayn Rand and Robert Heinlein espouse. So far I haven't been able to find any category or policy on which I align with Trump. Then again, I haven't been able to find any real depth on what Trump's policies are, so maybe I'm just missing something. Does anyone have any good references for his policy details, or could you explain some of the policies that influenced you to vote for him?

You're asking for people to explain why they voted for Trump, and yet when they do explain it, you argue with them.  Now, boards such as this are good places to argue, but if that's what you wanted you should have said that from the beginning.

I didn't vote for Trump, so I'll let those folks here who did vote for him explain if they wish to.  I would suggest though that you'll come off less like a troll if you simply take the answers they offer, instead of trying to argue them out of their positions.

If you wish to argue there will be other threads where you'll be able to do that, I'm sure. There's a long-time general rule for engaging with boards such as these, and that is, "Lurk more before posting." If you really want to engage folks here, hang around, read some threads, get a feel for the place, dip a toe in with an occasional comment or two, before trying to hit people over the head with your opinions.

Unless you really are just a troll or special snowflake trying to count coup among the Neanderthal right-wingers, in which case, carry on, you're doing great.   

[Frank Cannon]

Its your fault Frank.  He/she/it followed you over from the DU.

I know. I smelled something on the bottom of my shoe.

[Wingnut]

Ok, then explain it to me. It's been years since my college economics course, and I'm certainly not infallible. I would honestly like to learn, but your response does not provide anything meaningful.

Don't feed the trolls.   You are talking to a bot.   

 

[Frank Cannon]

Ok, then explain it to me. It's been years since my college economics course, and I'm certainly not infallible. I would honestly like to learn, but your response does not provide anything meaningful.

I would like to learn why you are so f@#king stupid. You have the acumen of a 12 year old girl who just found out there is no Santa. (You do know there is no Santa, Right?)