WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump

[Sanguine]

It's not a matter of belief. It's demonstrated Reality. There is exactly one giy since Reagan that embodied his ideal. Cruz. Then he sold out and his support collapsed with it.

His support came from the FACT that he embodied Reaganism. One guy in 30 years. Tell me again how it's been tried so often.

Cruz didn't sell out.  The GOP decided they didn't want him and apparently did want Trump instead. 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

It's not a matter of belief. It's demonstrated Reality. There is exactly one giy since Reagan that embodied his ideal. Cruz. Then he sold out and his support collapsed with it.

His support came from the FACT that he embodied Reaganism. One guy in 30 years. Tell me again how it's been tried so often.

You still have this ridiculous Limbaugh belief that if we just nominated the immaculate conservative then we could just waltz into the white house and all would be good. You're not living in "real ville".

[Norm Lenhart]

Cruz didn't sell out.  The GOP decided they didn't want him and apparently did want Trump instead.

Cruz sold out. Deal with it. He made a speech calling Trump the devil and then made a deal to support that devil. Period. End of. Parsing this is exactly the reason we get nowhere. You won't accept plain truth/evidence/facts as plain truth/evidence/facts.

[Norm Lenhart]

You still have this ridiculous Limbaugh belief that if we just nominated the immaculate conservative then we could just waltz into the white house and all would be good. You're not living in "real ville".

Except I think Rush is a fraud so your whole basis collapses. You are looking for excuses why to not do something. Thats why we are here today. You have excuses and when actual facts present themselves you are armed to the teeth with 'can't', 'wont' and 'shouldn't and talk in soundbytes.

A week ago you were the reluctant/ping pong Trump voter. Now you arent. So before you go off in absolutes, you might be best served taking some time evaluating for yourself why your views change based on situation before arguing about how Reagan's philosophies are dead and gone.

[Sanguine]

Cruz sold out. Deal with it. He made a speech calling Trump the devil and then made a deal to support that devil. Period. End of. Parsing this is exactly the reason we get nowhere. You won't accept plain truth/evidence/facts as plain truth/evidence/facts.

Nope, I don't agree with you.  But, I do accept that you believe that.

[Rivergirl]

Cruz pledged to support the candidate who won the primaries.  No doubt it pained him to do so....he kept his word while all around him others lied, schemed, and blithered like the idiots they are.

[Norm Lenhart]

Nope, I don't agree with you.  But, I do accept that you believe that.

You don't have to believe me. I'm not the guy that sold out. I didn't make the situation that happened. But that situation did in fact happen. It is a sellout by any definition and regardless, what you believe has no bearing on the truth of it.

[Norm Lenhart]

Cruz pledged to support the candidate who won the primaries.  No doubt it pained him to do so....he kept his word while all around him others lied, schemed, and blithered like the idiots they are.

He sold out. His speech "Let me tell you what I think of Donald Trump" is every bit as binding as they are the words he himself spoke.

[corbe]

   It is NOT to early to lay the groundwork for 2020, We know the 'GOP' will nominate someone related to the Kardasians next time. There is ample proof they left US Conservatives many, many moons ago and yet some hang onto them just like a Battered Wife hangs onto 'her' Man.  It's a Syndrome that can't be explained.

   If Trump is gonna lose by 50+ Electoral Votes, It makes no sense to vote for an individual that can deny hellary her 270 and force this into the House, the polling is saying it's not even probable.

   The Constitution Party looks like a solid vehicle, their Platform is VERY Conservative, to put our time and effort into for the next 4 years, maybe Cruz and Lee could get on board, but even if I'm dreaming, Evan has as much chance to stop the hellary train as does Johnson or Stein.

[txradioguy]

Cruz pledged to support the candidate who won the primaries.  No doubt it pained him to do so....he kept his word while all around him others lied, schemed, and blithered like the idiots they are.

 

[txradioguy]

He sold out. His speech "Let me tell you what I think of Donald Trump" is every bit as binding as they are the words he himself spoke.

And yet the words "I endorse Donald Trump" have never come out of his mouth.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

   It is NOT to early to lay the groundwork for 2020, We know the 'GOP' will nominate someone related to the Kardasians next time. There is ample proof they left US Conservatives many, many moons ago and yet some hang onto them just like a Battered Wife hangs onto 'her' Man.  It's a Syndrome that can't be explained.

   If Trump is gonna lose by 50+ Electoral Votes, It makes no sense to vote for an individual that can deny hellary her 270 and force this into the House, the polling is saying it's not even probable.

   The Constitution Party looks like a solid vehicle, their Platform is VERY Conservative, to put our time and effort into for the next 4 years, maybe Cruz and Lee could get on board, but even if I'm dreaming, Evan has as much chance to stop the hellary train as does Johnson or Stein.

Yes lets split the vote 50/50 so the left will run roughshod for the next 30 years, just like the last 30...


Good plan.

[Norm Lenhart]

And yet the words "I endorse Donald Trump" have never come out of his mouth.

One could never say the words  "I endorse pedophillia" and yet still bring young children to be babysat by perverts too. Actions speak louder than words or pledges.

[Norm Lenhart]

Yes lets split the vote 50/50 so the left will run roughshod for the next 30 years, just like the last 30...


Good plan.

Then you should do yourself and us a favor and move on to a discussion better aligned with your political philosophy.

[corbe]

Yes lets split the vote 50/50 so the left will run roughshod for the next 30 years, just like the last 30...


Good plan.

    Well @Weird Tolkienish Figure, Your GOP has done such a remarkable job, just keep going.

[libertybele]

I remain a huge Cruz supporter; those who feel he 'sold out' are entitled to their opinion.  I remain a supporter because he has a conservative voting record, stellar record as a Solicitor General and saved our butts with the Heller v. DC  argument and saved our sovereignty in the Medellin v. TX argument.  If you consider him standing behind the nominee of his party to be a sell out so be it.  I have no doubt that Cruz is doing what he feels is best for country; handing Hillary the opportunity to select a justice or justices to the Supreme Court isn't in this country's best interest.  Whatever way one decides how they need to vote to stop Hillary is up to them.  IMHO if you're simply voting to send a message or punish the GOP, the only one you're punishing is those of us who want to save this country.  I could give a damn about this GOP but I love this country and our Constitution.  I would like to see them both stand rather than see them fall.

[Norm Lenhart]

I remain a huge Cruz supporter; those who feel he 'sold out' are entitled to their opinion.  I remain a supporter because he has a conservative voting record, stellar record as a Solicitor General and saved our butts with the Heller v. DC  argument and saved our sovereignty in the Medellin v. TX argument.  If you consider him standing behind the nominee of his party to be a sell out so be it.  I have no doubt that Cruz is doing what he feels is best for country; handing Hillary the opportunity to select a justice or justices to the Supreme Court isn't in this country's best interest.  Whatever way one decides how they need to vote to stop Hillary is up to them.  IMHO if you're simply voting to send a message or punish the GOP, the only one you're punishing is those of us who want to save this country.  I could give a damn about this GOP but I love this country and our Constitution.  I would like to see them both stand rather than see them fall.

It's not opinion. It's fact demonstrated by action.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Then you should do yourself and us a favor and move on to a discussion better aligned with your political philosophy.

   I'm a libertarian conservative. I thought this was a forum conducive to that thought.


This isn't an ideological discussion IMO, but a tactical one. Because Trumpism ain't the answer, we all pretty much agree to that.

[r9etb]

It's not opinion. It's fact demonstrated by action.

It's your opinion as to Cruz's motives.

[Norm Lenhart]

It's your opinion as to Cruz's motives.

This is your argument from yesterday. Motives don't mean a thing when the end result is the same. Thats 100% ends justifying the means.

[r9etb]

I'm a libertarian conservative. I thought this was a forum conducive to that thought.

This isn't an ideological discussion IMO, but a tactical one. Because Trumpism ain't the answer, we all pretty much agree to that.

Most of us do agree to that. 

But it's not a tactical discussion -- or at least, it shouldn't be.  Tactics are what you use to implement a strategy, and it is the strategy that we lack.  And above strategy is the answer to the question, "what are we fighting for?"  And we lack that answer, too.

What's really needed is to consider first principles, and to decide what it is, really, that we're fighting for.  If we can explain that to ourselves, and to others, then we've got a shot at turning things around.

[Norm Lenhart]

Most of us do agree to that. 

But it's not a tactical discussion -- or at least, it shouldn't be.  Tactics are what you use to implement a strategy, and it is the strategy that we lack.  And above strategy is the answer to the question, "what are we fighting for?"  And we lack that answer, too.

What's really needed is to consider first principles, and to decide what it is, really, that we're fighting for.  If we can explain that to ourselves, and to others, then we've got a shot at turning things around.

And THAT is my entire point.

[r9etb]

This is your argument from yesterday. Motives don't mean a thing when the end result is the same. Thats 100% ends justifying the means.

Whatever. 

[r9etb]

And THAT is my entire point.

No, it's not.  Your "entire point" is that Norm knows all, and nobody else's ideas or motives matter.  You're more a symptom of the problem -- this unquenchable need to excommunicate conservatives who don't agree with you on every single point.  That's why "conservatism" -- individually defined -- has resulted in toxic factional posturing.

[Norm Lenhart]

Whatever.

Actually no it's not 'whatever'. How can you with a straight face talk about first principles and then blow off the very heart of them? Do you think conservatism is an ends/means philosophy? Or do think it is principle based? If it is principle based then the ends never justify the means. Principled action justifies the means.

What this comes down to is you don't like the messenger so you discount the message.