Author Topic: WOW! POLITICAL SUICIDE! TED CRUZ REFUSES TO ENDORSE TRUMP – CROWD BOOS HIM OFF STAGE  (Read 83204 times)

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Offline wolfcreek

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@mystery-ak  I said it before, if he actually did go after Hildabeast, he might win and that is not his intention.

Did you watch the convention? Hillary was trashed/mentioned Ad nauseam.

This is about Cruz having to back up the rhetoric after playing the victim card and challenging Trump in 4 years.

Offline thackney

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Self-evident to all of us.  Sanders' wins primary states and the delegates all go to Hildabeast.  Their rules make whom their leaders choose the nominee - not their subjects. 

The GOP just adopted the same rules for future elections in their party.

@INVAR

The GOP has adopted superdelegates for future elections?  Would you provide a link to that claim?
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Offline youknowwho

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Trump has been doing his best to get attention OFF of Hillary's problems this whole scampaign.

Is it true his buddy Carl Icahn, who endorsed Trump, has a Super Pac dumping money into the 3rd parties on the ticket?

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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I dunno.  What percentage supported Ronald Reagan?

Over 50%.  That's why he won the nomination.

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What percentage is active with, has attended meetings of, or is sympathetic to the Tea Party?  I'd bet over 65 percent.

Then why couldn't that 65% of the party nominate a conservative in the primary?  Even after Cruz was the only conservative in the race, he still wasn't close to 50%.  Why not?  Honestly, I can't get passed this argument.  If true conservatives really are the 'silent majority", then why hasn't the GOP nominated a true conservative since 1984?  There either 1) aren't as many conservatives as we think, or 2) the definition of "conservative" varies so much depending on who you ask that calling someone a "conservative" is meaningless.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 06:03:12 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Online Hoodat

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@Maj. Bill Martin

Major Bill, Republicans weren't the only ones voting in Republican primaries.  There is a reason why vote totals rose significantly in 2016.
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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It doesn't matter, now, does it.

Well, it matters a hell of a lot of your goal is to win elections.

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First we were told the GOP doesn't need us anyway.
Second, this isn't about anything but principle this time around.

Fair enough.  If it's not about conservatives winning elections, then the level of support doesn't matter.

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You ask us to define a number we cannot. You want a percentage answer to a question which has not been asked. Insufficient data. The electorate has been handed Hobson's choice and will reflect that.

The exact percentage was not my point.  My point was how a group of voters that isn't even large enough to win a nomination is going to be large enough to win a general election.  So you could pick any number you wanted out of a hat to make the point.  A percentage large enough to win the general election should be able to win a nomination easy.  It's a simple question of math, because the electorate wasn't "handed" a Hobson's choice.  It voted for this Hobson's choice.

Here's the reality that political junkies like us don't want to admit.  Personality, charisma, and communications skills are just as important as the message when it comes to winning an election.  So unless we come up with a conservative who has the right personality/charisma/communications skills, we're not going to elect or even nominate a conservative.  Period.  That person was not in this primary, so no conservative was nominated.  End of story.  And ask yourself -- prior to Reagan, when was the last time the U.S. elected a true conservative?

We have to get lucky.



Online Hoodat

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And ask yourself -- prior to Reagan, when was the last time the U.S. elected a true conservative?

1892
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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1892

Probably right....

My point is that patience, while annoying as hell, is really an essential ingredient for those who want to see a conservative President.  It has to be a mix of the right views, and the right guy, and that's very difficult to find.



Offline catfish1957

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Offline starstruck

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Probably right....

My point is that patience, while annoying as hell, is really an essential ingredient for those who want to see a conservative President.  It has to be a mix of the right views, and the right guy, and that's very difficult to find.
You are right about that. I still will pick the views every time. I would love to see a true conservative with charisma. Not for me, because I don't care, but for those who need to vote for personality.
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Offline Night Hides Not

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Well, it matters a hell of a lot of your goal is to win elections.

Fair enough.  If it's not about conservatives winning elections, then the level of support doesn't matter.
I don't view electing someone who is of the character or stance I find abhorrent a "win". There is not major party candidate who fits, imho, and support for a third party candidate is unlikely to reach the level required to garner 270 electoral votes, so this time around, it doesn't matter. These things change, anyway, and the greatest enemy of a Trump Administration will be Trump should that come to pass, just as the greatest enemy of another Clinton Administration would be Hillary. Their actions will incite enmity.

 
The exact percentage was not my point.  My point was how a group of voters that isn't even large enough to win a nomination is going to be large enough to win a general election.  So you could pick any number you wanted out of a hat to make the point.  A percentage large enough to win the general election should be able to win a nomination easy.  It's a simple question of math, because the electorate wasn't "handed" a Hobson's choice.  It voted for this Hobson's choice.
If you count the crossover democrats in open primary states as GOP voters and a legitimate part of the electorate, Trump did not win 'easily'. He won with a plurality, the lowest in decades. So, far from it, those may have been the results, but would voters have cast their ballots differently (for someone other than the 15 other candidates) if they had known the outcome?
This also completely ignores the effects of trump's antics dominating media at the expense of other candidates (just that reality teevee star coming out), and the intense and I honestly believe coordinated smear campaign (just one, it started after Iowa and is ongoing) against the clear frontrunner had not Trump been in the race.
As for the electorate, Idiocracy sums it up nicely, with 40% of the GOP primary voters (if you count the democrat crossover vote as GOP primary voters) voting for Trump. The 16 way split of the remaining votes still produced a clear front-runner among those, even as the smear campaign intensified. (Really, his daddy killed JFK?)
This is the first election in which media such as facebook and twitter were significant, if not dominant factors. That both have as much veracity as their posters. Influencing people on social media has been studied as an effective propaganda medium and marketing tool, and we are seeing the results of that as well.

Here's the reality that political junkies like us don't want to admit.  Personality, charisma, and communications skills are just as important as the message when it comes to winning an election.  So unless we come up with a conservative who has the right personality/charisma/communications skills, we're not going to elect or even nominate a conservative.  Period.  That person was not in this primary, so no conservative was nominated.  End of story.  And ask yourself -- prior to Reagan, when was the last time the U.S. elected a true conservative?
Reagan would never have resorted to the outright smear and slanderous tactics Donald Trump employed to 'win'. The public would not have tolerated that either. If you want to think about something, consider that the plurality who voted for Trump voted for the most arrogant, bloviating, superficial, and frankly obnoxious candidate in recent history. That he likely had legions of internet trolls out cramming social media and other sites with not only pro-trump propaganda but (especially) anti-Cruz (although Cruz was not the only one--ask 'little Marco') hit pieces which were fabrications or unsubstantiated and definitely unresearched, repeated in the media echo chamber, retweeted, facebooked and then used as 'sources' which said...
The electorate was angry that the people sent to Washington didn't fulfill their promises, and in their anger they jumped on the bandwagon of the first person who promised them what they wanted. They didn't look past "WALL!" and Not importing Muslims, both of which have already been walked back. But in their anger, they also attacked the person the operatives DIDN'T want, namely Cruz. The mob psychology of those attacks, paid and spontaneous, will be the stuff of PhDs in Communications and Psychology for years. The same electorate which had rejected Newt for his family affairs turned around an election later and embraced an unabashed serial adulterer, why? Because they thought his latest wife is 'hot'?

Who knows? But one thing is certain, they voted for the person who resonated their anger, not any shred of principle they may have had, and in their anger formed a virtual lynch mob for Ted Cruz that continues in its anger, unfulfilled, because he didn't bow to the heir apparent and kiss his ring (or whatever).

We have to get lucky.
This wasn't luck. Idiocracy sums it up nicely
In the future, the GOP will not be eliminating open primaries. This allows the influence of Democrats to be felt within the party. Which is another reason to seek a third party.
When I say it does not matter, now, the die is cast for this election barring incident or accident.
There will be no do-over.
For the next four years the country will be in the hands of a New York Liberal.

After that four years matters--and in the meantime matters, to get viable candidates on ballots nationwide for a party which will reflect the views of those the GOP has disenfranchised.
If enough progress is made, those who are finally convinced that the GOP isn't going to make them any more free than the Democrats may move over. It will be slow, at first especially, fighting the "I wanna win, now!" factor as well as the "Bolshevik factor" (Majority Party, and anything else is a "loser" or will "waste your vote").

Trump will get his true believer vote, and I believe votes from a significant number of people who are more afraid of Hillary than are afraid of him. The latter group may even outnumber the rest.

But as the campaign progresses, his past will come out more, his gaffes will be used against him, his waffling on issues exposed, his Liberalism on display, and we'll see how many votes that costs him.
Plus, he will be up against a media savvy (and still Liberal media beloved) candidate who has no principles, either. His freebie media will grind to a halt and the outrageous will be used against him. If he slides to the left he should be a shoo-in to pick up some of Bernie's Communists. In a sense, that will be a more even matchup, because there will be no expectations of fundamental civility from either one.



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Offline JustPassinThru

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Over 50%.  That's why he won the nomination.

And more than sixty percent voted AGAINST Lord Trumpy.

Then why couldn't that 65% of the party nominate a conservative in the primary?  Even after Cruz was the only conservative in the race, he still wasn't close to 50%.  Why not?  Honestly, I can't get passed this argument.  If true conservatives really are the 'silent majority", then why hasn't the GOP nominated a true conservative since 1984?  There either 1) aren't as many conservatives as we think, or 2) the definition of "conservative" varies so much depending on who you ask that calling someone a "conservative" is meaningless.

Two Bush operatives remained in as spoilers.  Goober Grahamnesty; and Johnny Kase-Itch.

Divided the Not-Trump vote - there were deluded but well-meaning voters who thought Trump-hired-gun Roger Stone's meme about Cruz being Canadian was a concern.  And there are people who really ARE afraid for some confused reason about Constitutional Conservatives.  Guess they think we'll all be ordered to church every Sunday or something.

It was a divide-and-conquer, scorched-earth strategy.  THAT is why God the Donald won - and with a small plurality; and with plenty of smears and slander.

Now you got your chance.  You can run your two-dimensional imbecile and see where he lands.

I already know.

Offline skeeter

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And more than sixty percent voted AGAINST Lord Trumpy.

Two Bush operatives remained in as spoilers.  Goober Grahamnesty; and Johnny Kase-Itch.

Divided the Not-Trump vote - there were deluded but well-meaning voters who thought Trump-hired-gun Roger Stone's meme about Cruz being Canadian was a concern.  And there are people who really ARE afraid for some confused reason about Constitutional Conservatives.  Guess they think we'll all be ordered to church every Sunday or something.

It was a divide-and-conquer, scorched-earth strategy.  THAT is why God the Donald won - and with a small plurality; and with plenty of smears and slander.

Now you got your chance.  You can run your two-dimensional imbecile and see where he lands.

I already know.

A great many republicans never listened past the first month of the primaries. They saw the celebrity, heard "wall", "deport" and "America never wins anymore" and they were sold. They haven't noticed Trump steadily sliding away from those themes ever since.

Cruz had the content, he just didn't convey the anger people wanted to hear, anger built over years of meek acquiescense on the part of the GOP leadership to the liberal agenda. The same leadership Trump has now allied himself with.

You need a snowplow to drive through this much irony.

Offline verga

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Over 50%.  That's why he won the nomination.

Then why couldn't that 65% of the party nominate a conservative in the primary?  Even after Cruz was the only conservative in the race, he still wasn't close to 50%.  Why not?  Honestly, I can't get passed this argument.  If true conservatives really are the 'silent majority", then why hasn't the GOP nominated a true conservative since 1984?  There either 1) aren't as many conservatives as we think, or 2) the definition of "conservative" varies so much depending on who you ask that calling someone a "conservative" is meaningless.
@Maj. Bill Martin There are two reasons. 1) The media made Trump the spectacle. Yeah he said the outrageous things, but the media gave him all the attention.
2) We have open primaries and all the democrats knew that sHrillary was the anointed so they jumped over for the primary and put Trump over the top.

Trumps appeal is to the lowest common denominator. He speaks in short sentences written at about an 8th grade level. There is nothing thought provoking in any of his speeches. It is the exact same appeal that the democrats use. Reagan was able to bet Carter because of his ability to communicate and because at that point everyone realized that Carter was a complete imbecile. The media is still portraying Obozo as the cool guy President. Hell he is still campaigning by slow jamming the news with Jimmy Fallon. The media was able to pick the last three republican candidates. They gave us McCain, Romney and now Trump.
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Offline starstruck

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You need a snowplow to drive through this much irony.
Snow jobs instead of Obama's no jobs and Bill Clinton's blow..............Ok bumper stickers are not my forte.
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Offline Night Hides Not

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Reagan would never have resorted to the outright smear and slanderous tactics Donald Trump employed to 'win'.

Ronald Reagan possessed a warm, kind heart. As part of a civics project, I sent him a letter when he was Governor regarding the diversion of water from Northern California to Southern California. It was the kind of letter you'd expect from a snot nosed 17 YO: lacking in facts, but overabundant with emotion.

His response was pure Reagan, as I would fully realize many years later. The first couple of sentences were "Thank you for writing to me. I enjoy hearing from young persons like yourself, as you bring such passion to the issues."

No staffer ever would have responded like that, IMO.

Unfortunately, I lost that letter during the several moves I made after high school. I'll never forget it, though.
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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You are right about that. I still will pick the views every time. I would love to see a true conservative with charisma. Not for me, because I don't care, but for those who need to vote for personality.

Agreed.  It's sad that we've come to this.  It got much worse in the TV age, but it's the reality with which we must deal.

Offline starstruck

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Agreed.  It's sad that we've come to this.  It got much worse in the TV age, but it's the reality with which we must deal.
Maybe it is. But don't expect me to vote for the charisma without the conservative philosophy. All hat and no cattle will not make America great again.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Agreed.  It's sad that we've come to this.  It got much worse in the TV age, but it's the reality with which we must deal.
So it is Kardashian or lardashian....
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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@Maj. Bill Martin There are two reasons. 1) The media made Trump the spectacle. Yeah he said the outrageous things, but the media gave him all the attention.
2) We have open primaries and all the democrats knew that sHrillary was the anointed so they jumped over for the primary and put Trump over the top.

1) For all the coverage Trump got, it was overwhelmingly negative.  In fact, the thought was that it would surely sink the guy -- they weren't trying to help him.  The problem is that too many voters had the opposite reaction of what the media predicted.  I thought he'd be sunk with the McCain comment, but it just didn't happen.  Fact is, voters just liked him better than the alternative.

2) I think there is more validity to your second point, but still Cruz lost a lot of closed primaries/caucuses -- Kentucky, Louisiana, etc..

Quote
Trumps appeal is to the lowest common denominator. He speaks in short sentences written at about an 8th grade level. There is nothing thought provoking in any of his speeches. It is the exact same appeal that the democrats use. Reagan was able to bet Carter because of his ability to communicate and because at that point everyone realized that Carter was a complete imbecile. The media is still portraying Obozo as the cool guy President. Hell he is still campaigning by slow jamming the news with Jimmy Fallon.


I don't disagree with any of that.

Quote
The media was able to pick the last three republican candidates. They gave us McCain, Romney and now Trump.

I do disagree with that -- I think voters truly preferred them over the competition.  Not always as a "first" choice in the case of McCain and Romney, but as an "acceptable" backup once guys like Romney (in 2008), Gingrich (2012) dropped out.  As for Trump...as I said, everyone thought those negative stories would hurt him -- they just didn't.  And his competition either self-destructed (Rubio), or had flaws that too many voters just didn't like (Cruz, Bush, etc.).

In any case, I still don't see how it is easier for a conservative to win a general election as part of a third party.  If there were enough people to give such a candidate a chance, there should be more than enough to make that candidate the GOP nominee.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 09:29:44 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline INVAR

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2) I think there is more validity to your second point, but still Cruz lost a lot of closed primaries/caucuses -- Kentucky, Louisiana, etc..
 

Speaking for KY - the State GOP suddenly changed the rules from a normal Primary to a Caucus for the sole purpose of letting Rand Paul run for both President and re-election for the Senate.

Paul dropped out before the caucus, and it was as if the Ron Paul Mob Zombies took over for Trump to infiltrate the caucuses.

A huge majority of Republicans who normally vote in primaries, stayed home as the caucuses were held on a Saturday at the county seat - which for some is a long way to travel.

I contend that had it been the normal primary, Cruz may indeed have carried the Commonwealth, but we will never know. 
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Offline Smokin Joe

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In any case, I still don't see how it is easier for a conservative to win as part of a third party.
  You can't get elected if you can't get on the ballot, and the GOP is not making that any easier for anyone outside the GOP cartel. It would be far easier to get a Conservative on a third party ballot because Conservatives are persona non grata at the GOP.

If there were enough people to give such a candidate a chance, why didn't they vote for Cruz this time around?


You are ignoring the full court press smear campaign against Cruz.

Birtherism
flap over a previously used (in other campaigns) fund raising mailer

"lyin' Ted" retweeted what, millions of times?

CNN and Carson dropping out retweet

The misrepresentation of comments after Chicago (spewed as supporting rioters against trump--NOT what he said)

Five mistress Enquirer article (Yes, Trump and Packer are old friends)

'Ted thinks he's the annointed one (someone else said that) and is a cult member nonsense

The flap over Mrs Trump's GQ layout being used in a PAC ad, wrongfully attributed to Cruz

The attack on Heidi's looks and mental state

Claims of "stealing delegates" & CO form typo

Heidi is the GLobalist banker CFR-Illuminati-Bilderbergers-Trilateral Commission Commissar and architect of NAFTA (lies)

Ted's Dad helped kill JFK

And all the time with the "lyin' Ted" twitter smear.

How can you ignore that? You don't think all that had an effect?
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 09:45:29 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Over 50%.  That's why he won the nomination.

Then why couldn't that 65% of the party nominate a conservative in the primary?  Even after Cruz was the only conservative in the race, he still wasn't close to 50%.  Why not?  Honestly, I can't get passed this argument.  If true conservatives really are the 'silent majority", then why hasn't the GOP nominated a true conservative since 1984?  There either 1) aren't as many conservatives as we think, or 2) the definition of "conservative" varies so much depending on who you ask that calling someone a "conservative" is meaningless.

Why? Is it not obvious? Has it not been demonstrated election after election?

You have a mere handful of people,left in America, with enough honesty to live by the words they speak. You have a mere handful of people that lack a wide yellow stripe down their back. You have a mere handful of people that are not every bit as liberal as the average democrat.

In the off season, everyone on the right is a 'conservative'. But come election season, the truth comes out and the overwhelming majority of 'the right' is as hard left as their opposition. Lets face it. They knowingly and willingly tried to elect a guy that profits from the abortions his own laws enabled last time. Electing a mere con man is nothing by comparison.

Why should ANYONE think such people would EVER stand up for conservative principles or actual Conservatives when it actually matters? They REPEATEDLY show how low their character is and never EVER admit liberalism, as demonstrated by their votes, is what they desire.

If they did not want liberals, they would not VOTE for liberals.

Period.