Author Topic: Is It Getting To Be About the Time When the #NeverTrumpers Should Go Radio Silent?  (Read 12311 times)

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Offline L9teen

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You need Trump to save you.  To save you from the oncoming blitzkrieg of liberalism.  You hide behind #NeverTrump like the French hid behind the Maginot Line, for all the good it did them.  Trump will make Schumer crawl on his belly in the dust like the serpent he is.  And every other worm in Congress who won't toe the line. 

I guess you just don't want America to be great again.
I'd like some of what you're smoking.....cuz that's crazy yo

Offline L9teen

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Of course Hillary loves America, her husband was president, she wants to be president, and she's been an honorable public servant for years.

You can't be serious....


Offline musiclady

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Well, good grief, Sink, yes, 0bama and Clinton hate the America that we love.  That's why they want to "transform" it.

A person who marries you and says he/she wants to turn you into a completely different person, certainly doesn't love you.

It's obvious to me that Obama hates the America that existed when he became elected.  He may be starting to like the monster he's turning us into, but he clearly never loved this country.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline bolobaby

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Yeah, it is.  Time for all of you to have your Trump-iphanies.  Put up or shut up.  You lost, plain and simple.  You need Trump; Trump doesn't need you.

Wow. Who did I hear that line from before...? Oh, yeah...

How to lose credibility while posting:
1. Trump is never wrong.
2. Default to the most puerile emoticon you can find. This is especially useful when you can't win an argument on merits.
3. Be falsely ingratiating, completely but politely dismissive without talking to the points, and bring up Hillary whenever the conversation is really about conservatism.
4. When all else fails, remember rule #1 and #2. Emoticons are like the poor man's tweet!

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Well, at the risk of having burning coals poured on my head, I don't believe Hillary hates America, just like I don't believe Obama hates America.

They just have a different notion of what it means to be American.  It's wrong, terribly wrong.

But this notion of labeling those we disagree with as "haters of America" is why conservatives earn the label of nutcases.

@sinkspur You're right.  Putting on my own asbestos cap as I type....

Offline roamer_1

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You're right.  Putting on my own asbestos cap as I type....


@sinkspur

I'll stand with you guys on the premise that 'haters' as a term has long been used to beat people down by the left, and is now being pointed at me and mine by those purporting to be on the right, along with 'bigot, etc'...

IMHO, resorting to such terms is indicative of a weakness in argument, or the flux of a biased mind.

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Wow. Who did I hear that line from before...? Oh, yeah...



Even a stopped clock gets the time right twice a day (unless it's on military time).

geronl

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If this doesn't make you want to hold your nose and vote Trump, not sure what will.  :shrug:

Donny Dumbpf would be no different

Offline Sanguine

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@sinkspur You're right.  Putting on my own asbestos cap as I type....

So, you don't think "progressives" hate America?

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Donny Dumbpf would be no different

I believe he will defer to conservative types who will. He knows nothing about judges, he'll have handlers advising him on who to nominate. All presidents do this.

Offline r9etb

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So, you don't think "progressives" hate America?

The problem with arguments like this is that the phrase "hate America" has no real meaning, other than as a convenient and misguided perjorative.

There are certainly things about present-day or historical America that progressives "hate," but conservatives also "hate" some things about America.  But that's not "hating America."

What we can say is that progressives want to change things that conservatives want to keep, and vice versa.  And the vehemence with which those changes are proposed or opposed can be tantamount to "hatred" toward the ideas and/or the people behind them.

It would be better to carefully define what you mean by "America," and what our opponents mean by "America."  (They're not the same thing, I suspect).  Once you do that, it becomes a lot more obvious what you're trying to defend or change.



Offline skeeter

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It would be better to carefully define what you mean by "America," and what our opponents mean by "America."  (They're not the same thing, I suspect).  Once you do that, it becomes a lot more obvious what you're trying to defend or change.

To further illustrate your point I dropped by an old friend's house today - he's as leftwing as they come; loves Obama, is totally on-board with every silly social cause that comes down the pike, has a rainbow flag gracing his FB profile picture, the whole bit.

Yet he proudly flies an America flag on his front porch.

The nation is evolving (and I don't mean in a good sense) and the old stereotypes are evolving with it.

Offline INVAR

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You only "fundamentally transform" a country if you hate what it is, what it's foundations were and what it's culture was.

You only insult and shame a country on foreign soil to former and avowed enemies if you hate it.

You only punish groups and selections of Americans if you hate them.

Obama and his Leftist hordes have done all of the above.

They hate was America was, what America is - and seek to fundamentally transform it into their vision of utopia using every means possible and allying with every enemy of the country and culture it can find.

Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline skeeter

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You only "fundamentally transform" a country if you hate what it is, what it's foundations were and what it's culture was.

You only insult and shame a country on foreign soil to former and avowed enemies if you hate it.

You only punish groups and selections of Americans if you hate them.

Obama and his Leftist hordes have done all of the above.

They hate was America was, what America is - and seek to fundamentally transform it into their vision of utopia using every means possible and allying with every enemy of the country and culture it can find.

Leftists/statists love what they control, though.

And they control quite alot. I'd go so far as to say leftists love the America as represented by the mechanisms of government and governmental control.

Offline r9etb

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Leftists/statists love what they control, though.

And they control quite alot. I'd go so far as to say leftists love the America as represented by the mechanisms of government and governmental control.

I'd go so far as to say both sides of the argument are about "control" in one form or another; and about "freedom."

Progressivism appears to be based on an innate distrust of individual agency, especially among those whom they consider to be a lower order of humanity.  Because lower classes cannot be trusted to make their own, ill-conceived decisions, the enlightened class (i.e., progressives) must take it upon themselves to decide and enforce the choices people ought to make.  The inconvenient and persistent churnings of free will must be suppressed -- if necessary, by ever-more suffocating regulation.

What we tend to call "conservatism" seems to me an attempt to balance four basic concepts: the freedom to make one's own decisions, and the expectation that one is responsible for them; a responsibility toward others and to the general community; the necessity for self-control and self-regulation; and the recognition that humans are not, by nature, "good."  As John Adams put it:
Quote
[W]e have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
Hence, "law-and-order conservative" need not be considered a contradiction in terms.

The libertarian view of mankind seems to be that mankind is basically good.  If people are allowed (within broad limits) the freedom to make their decisions, and are understood to be generally subject to (and not protected against) the consequences of same, then a stable, free, and happy social structure will spontaneously arise.  I get a clear sense from libertarians that I've spoken with, that people should be allowed to make bad decisions; however, there is a rather strong animus against those who would band together to define community standards (e.g., against drug use or prostitution).

Offline sitetest

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http://ace.mu.nu/archives/363703.php

Interesting article. I understand and respect the will and reserve of the nevertrumpers. Just think this article might warrant their input. If it doesn't change your mind that's fine too.

I still think it brings up good points.

#Nevertrump #NeverSilent
Former Republican.

geronl

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I believe he will defer to conservative types

There is not one iota of evidence to support that idea. He HATES conservatives and he surrounds himself with sycophants and yes men.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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The problem with arguments like this is that the phrase "hate America" has no real meaning, other than as a convenient and misguided perjorative.

There are certainly things about present-day or historical America that progressives "hate," but conservatives also "hate" some things about America.  But that's not "hating America."

What we can say is that progressives want to change things that conservatives want to keep, and vice versa.  And the vehemence with which those changes are proposed or opposed can be tantamount to "hatred" toward the ideas and/or the people behind them.

It would be better to carefully define what you mean by "America," and what our opponents mean by "America."  (They're not the same thing, I suspect).  Once you do that, it becomes a lot more obvious what you're trying to defend or change.

What is probably accurate to say is that they have a more negative view of American overall -- remember "for the first time in my adult life, I'm proud of my country?"

The truth is that they overemphasize everything that we've ever done wrong as a nation, and give us too little credit for all that's good.  The result is an overall distorted picture that paints us as being, overall, a bad actor. 

Offline sitetest

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YOU don't care. You are quite full of yourself if you presume to speak for anyone but you.

I bet you complained about the Trump supporters wanting to burn it all down?

What do you get when you mix anger and irony? INVAR

 I agree with him.  Together, we are "we."
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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It never ceases to amaze me how often Trump's supporters insist we shut up, as if we should care.
New profile picture in honor of Public Domain Day 2024

Offline Hoodat

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I believe he will defer to conservative types who will.

Over ten months into the race now, and I have yet to see the first sign of Donald Trump deferring to Conservatives on anything.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Offline sneakypete

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I believe he will defer to conservative types who will. He knows nothing about judges, he'll have handlers advising him on who to nominate. All presidents do this.

Of course. He will consult with NYC politicians like Maxi and Mini-Mario,Bloomfield,NYC socialites,and his sister.

Howz that going to work out for you?
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Offline MajorClay

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geronl

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What do you get when you mix anger and irony? INVAR

Another personal attack.

Offline INVAR

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Another personal attack.

Doesn't bother me.  I enjoy them.  I wear insults and other such stuff as badges of honor.

I also never cry to mods.  I fight my own battles.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775