(POLL #2) VOTE! IF TRUMP IS THE NOMINEE WILL YOU VOTE FOR HIM?

[Sanguine]

The way I see it is Trump has no track record to look at whereas Hilary was a long one. We are at a stage in the politics where both major parties are about the same. Not the voters, the parties.

In order to break this spell they have over the electorate, we must find someone to who can work some magic out side the box. Trump might not be that person but, he's not beholden to either party or the lobbyists.

I didn't vote for Trump in the TX primary but, it's fairly clear that Cruz isn't going to be the nominee. Since both of these candidates claim to be anti-establishment and have garnered most of the votes, I'm pretty confident most of them want what I was describing...a revolution of sorts in the political process.

I feel that if we lose this opportunity, it won't be available later. This current generation mostly believes socialism is the way forward. We need to change their minds NOW!

I have to disagree with you, Wolfcreek.  First of all, DT does have a long track record, and it's one of a flamboyant, narcissistic, thin-skinned, belligerent, inconsistently successful, ethically challenged, politically leftish, businessman. 

Secondly, not sure why you say Cruz can't win.  We always knew this week's primaries were not going to favor Cruz.  He's in the same place he was before this round, and still in a position to win. 

[wolfcreek]

I have to disagree with you, Wolfcreek.  First of all, DT does have a long track record, and it's one of a flamboyant, narcissistic, thin-skinned, belligerent, inconsistently successful, ethically challenged, politically leftish, businessman. 

Secondly, not sure why you say Cruz can't win.  We always knew this week's primaries were not going to favor Cruz.  He's in the same place he was before this round, and still in a position to win.

That's not a political track record and it sounds like how the Left describe most Conservatives. ;)

Cruz can't get the necessary delegates to go into the convention with 1237. it's not mathematically possible.

[wolfcreek]

What actually disturbs me is the amount of posters here and elsewhere who are willing, even after being disappointed for the last two election, to sit on their asses at home and let Hillary have the presidency.

That makes me want to puke.

[musiclady]

What actually disturbs me is the amount of posters here and elsewhere who are willing, even after being disappointed for the last two election, to sit on their asses at home and let Hillary have the presidency.

That makes me want to puke.

If Donald Trump is our nominee, it will guarantee that Hillary becomes President.

THAT should make you "puke" as well.

[wolfcreek]

If Donald Trump is our nominee, it will guarantee that Hillary becomes President.

THAT should make you "puke" as well.

It won't despite what the establishment and the media have tried to lead us to believe.

[Sanguine]

That's not a political track record and it sounds like how the Left describe most Conservatives. ;)

Of course it's a political track record.  It goes to where he is on the political spectrum and how he would govern, if given the chance.

Cruz can't get the necessary delegates to go into the convention with 1237. it's not mathematically possible.

No, he can't, and it may well be that DT can't either.  So....what's your point?

[PROCON]

What actually disturbs me is the amount of posters here and elsewhere who are willing, even after being disappointed for the last two election, to sit on their asses at home and let Hillary have the presidency.

That makes me want to puke.

You're preaching to the choir with me. I'm a Cruz guy and have supported him financially as I've been able to this campaign season.

But I will hold my nose, just like I and many others have been doing since '92 and vote for the "lesser of 2 evils", tRump in this case.

The nation WILL NOT survive a Hillary Clinton Presidency.

Just remember, the same "conservatives" who stayed home and didn't vote for Romney helped to give us 4 more years of the 0bama nightmare.

#neverhillary

[sinkspur]

It won't despite what the establishment and the media have tried to lead us to believe.

LOL!! Trump IS the establishment.  He's bought and paid for politicians (mostly Democrats) his entire life.  When has Trump EVER stood against Washington or any political entity? 

He NEVER has.

Trump's a con artist.  It's how he's made his living:  Trump University, Trump steaks, Trump vodka, Trump vitamins, Trump phones....all MLM scams that screwed gullible people over.

It's happening again. That you would play the role of mark to this charlatan is surprising. 

You go right ahead.  I am #NeverTrump.  Ever.

[musiclady]

It won't despite what the establishment and the media have tried to lead us to believe.

Trump's a corrupt insider.  The only thing I think about him is what HE has said and done.

The media has nothing to do with the fact that he's a despicable human being, and a Progressive.

That makes me "puke" because at least Hillary tells the truth about her being a leftist.  Trump lies.

[RetBobbyMI]

Just for the sake of conjecture, let me pose this question.  We know a candidate must get 1237 delegate votes at the convention (not popular votes at primaries). We know that Trump has 994 and Cruz has 566, more or less, currently.  The question, assuming Trump might not get 1237, how many of the 994 delegates are Cruz supporters after they are unbound?

[Bill Cipher]

Thank you for conceding the point. 

[Bill Cipher]

Just for the sake of conjecture, let me pose this question.  We know a candidate must get 1237 delegate votes at the convention (not popular votes at primaries). We know that Trump has 994 and Cruz has 566, more or less, currently.  The question, assuming Trump might not get 1237, how many of the 994 delegates are Cruz supporters after they are unbound?

Most likely substantially more than would be Trump supporters given that Cruz has been running rings around Trump in the project of selecting the actual individuals who will fill those delegate spots.  There is an article elsewhere of Cruz' abilities in this area as applied to Virginia: Trump won the delegates' first vote, but Cruz has apparently succeeded in picking all of almost all of the individuals who will fill those delegate spots.  If Trump doesn't win the first vote, I very much doubt if many of the Virginia delegates will vote for Trump on subsequent ballots. 

[Nickname]

Nick... Your avatar is reminiscent of a long-time forum member who moved on for her own reasons a couple years back. She used that very avatar.  Welcome!

Hiya, thanks for the welcome.

About the avatars! It may be one that she created. I picked it from the menu for customizing your appearance here but I'm thinking that all of the personal avatars end up on that list. I will look into finding something unique for myself.  ^-^

[Sanguine]

OK, I've been pondering the question for 7 pages now, and you Trumpsters have finally convinced me!

If Trump is the candidate, I will not vote for him.  And, I will hold all of you who pushed him upon us responsible for whomever wins; whether it be Trump or Clinton. 

[HootOwl]

I voted no, but that's only as of the last couple of days.  It's not as much his policies that bother me -- I could accept his non-conservative positions on a lot of issues just to get the Supreme Court.  What I can't accept is how he has run his campaign -- winning by trying to destroy personally other candidates.  If mocking other candidates with juvenile names is the new paradigm for winning a nomination, the GOP is done, and with it any real hope for the conservative movement. 

And as Rush apparently said a while back, Trump is essentially running an independent campaign from within the GOP, and has absolutely no loyalty to other GOP elected officials at all.  It's all about him, and if he gains appeal by trashing other Republicans, he'll do it.  So for me, I'd rather try to survive four years of The Beast and try to hang on to Congress, then condone what Trum is doing and let him wreck the party.

We don't have the time to worry about personalities Trump is doing the same thing as Cruz.  Both have called each other cry-babies, liars, Canadian, Tax cheaters ( has Trump even released his returns --no, but goes after Cruz,  for not declaring a loan from a few yrs. ago--0  what ever Four years is too late.  We'll have a one-sided SCOUS  that will care nothing about laws  just what is good for liberals.  I will vote for either  even a semi-conservative--if we don't  our culture, country, etc.  will be gone.  We got loads of stuff on Hillary--these guys should be fighting Demos  not Republicans--other stuff is trivial.

Not to mention that I think whomever gets elected is going to be facihttp://www.gopbriefingroom.com/Smileys/default/th_1lg147amen.gifng a severe economic downturn, and likely set the other party up to do very well in 2020.

[Rivergirl]

Interesting that GBR posters are to remain civil. That is definitely not a word in the tRump lexicon.
To say nothing of his vulgarian behavior.

[A-Lert]

Interesting that GBR posters are to remain civil. That is definitely not a word in the tRump lexicon.
To say nothing of his vulgarian behavior.

Why shouldn't we remain civil?

[wolfcreek]

You're preaching to the choir with me. I'm a Cruz guy and have supported him financially as I've been able to this campaign season.

But I will hold my nose, just like I and many others have been doing since '92 and vote for the "lesser of 2 evils", tRump in this case.

The nation WILL NOT survive a Hillary Clinton Presidency.

Just remember, the same "conservatives" who stayed home and didn't vote for Romney helped to give us 4 more years of the 0bama nightmare.

#neverhillary

So we have people with short memories or obvious subversives.

[wolfcreek]

LOL!! Trump IS the establishment.  He's bought and paid for politicians (mostly Democrats) his entire life.  When has Trump EVER stood against Washington or any political entity? 

He NEVER has.

Trump's a con artist.  It's how he's made his living:  Trump University, Trump steaks, Trump vodka, Trump vitamins, Trump phones....all MLM scams that screwed gullible people over.

It's happening again. That you would play the role of mark to this charlatan is surprising. 

You go right ahead.  I am #NeverTrump.  Ever.

Speaking of scam and con-artists.....

[Sanguine]

Speaking of scam and con-artists.....

Trump?

[musiclady]

Trump?

Indeed!  Good to see Wolfcreek coming over to the light. 

[Neverdul]

I have not voted in the poll as I wish there was another option on the poll that fit me – “Maybe, but with great reservation”.

As I sure in Hell do not want to see Hillary as POTUS, I am not absolutely #NeverTrump but I am #serious-doubts-on-Trump. If Trump shifts liberal in the general however, as I believe he will, I will have to consider and assess whether there is a whole hill of beans difference between the two.

How Trump would govern as POTUS is also a big question mark. His idea of being POTUS seems to stem from his business experience as the sole owner and CEO of his many companies – “this is what I want – make it so” – and all he has to do is just sign a memo (or as POTUS – an executive order).

If he wins the nomination, which I think he will after a bloody battle, I predict that going into the general election he will shift back to his “former” liberal side.  He’s already said he wants to court Bernie Sander supporters.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/29/politics/donald-trump-bernie-sanders/

“The next morning, Trump said on MSNBC: "Bernie Sanders has a message that's interesting. I'm going to be taking a lot of the things Bernie said and using them."

“Trump’s advisers say these comments are a preview of more explicit overtures the campaign is ready to make to Sanders’ supporters once the populist liberal exits the 2016 race. That strategy is based on the broad areas of overlap between voters attracted to Trump and those who have flocked to Sanders. Both have angrily denounced the political system as corrupt and expressed deep frustration that Washington is not helping ordinary people. They both oppose international trade deals, saying they hurt American jobs.”

It is exactly this “overlap” that concerns me in addition to:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M78Tt40zXU


Someone on another site tried to tell me that “Bernie's supporters, in addition to wanting free sh!t, also tend to be white, protectionist, anti-immigrant, hate SJWs, hate Hillary,”

My response:

“Those” Bernie supporters who are anti-immigrant and hate the SJWs must not have ever gone to Bernie’s website and read his positions like his pro-immigration policy:

https://berniesanders.com/issues/a-fair-and-humane-immigration-policy/

And there is a good amount of SJW’s stuff there: Racial Justice; Fighting for LGBT Equality; Fighting for Affordable Housing; Fighting for Women’s Rights (Pro-Choice and Pro fully funding Planned Parenthood); Climate Change; Living Wage, Free College….

https://berniesanders.com/issues/

I do however see several issues that would be crossover issues between Trump and Sanders supporters and that is what concerns me.

Getting Big Money Out of Politics and Restoring Democracy
-Both Trump and Sanders think we are a Populist Democracy rather than a Constitutional Republic. When has Trump ever mentioned the Constitution? His new BFF Ben Carson even thinks that the Electoral College (outdated) should be eliminated and I never saw Trump say otherwise.


Creating Jobs Rebuilding America
-Creating “government” jobs to rebuild the infrastructure – can you say FDR part 2? Now I do agree that our infrastructure is aging, many problems with bridges in particular. However, saying “I will build great roads and make the trains run on time” might not be the best campaign slogan.

Caring for our Veterans
-Sanders – “Fully fund and expand the VA so that every veteran gets the care that he or she has earned and deserves.” Trump – “We’ve got to take care of our veterans” and he also wants to pour more money into the VA and expand it and wants to tie it into Medicare. Not that I disagree that veterans deserve better than what the VA is doing for them, but expanding the VA, IMO is not the answer. Trump has said that veterans should be able to see any doctor that accepts Medicare which sounds like he envisions some sort of tie in between the two and an expansion of both. Not good IMO.

Medicare for All
-Sanders wants to eliminate all private insurance and go full bore socialized medicine, free to everyone – single payer. Trump has said he wants to “repeal and REPLACE Obamacare” and is for more open competition for insurance companies, but he has also said things in past sounding a lot like he supports single payer and more recently “everybody has to be taken care of…who is going to pay for that? – The Government”. Trump has also said numerous times that he “will take care of all the women on healthcare issues…whatever that means, and has said he wants to expand Medicare – see above.


Fighting to Lower Prescription Drug Prices- NEGOTIATE A BETTER DEAL (Where have I heard that before…)
-Sanders and Trump are completely aligned here but I have my concerns over price controls that IMO would stifle R&D and new drugs. Both also say Americans should be able to buy Rx drugs from Canada – so much for “protectionism” and both say that Medicare should be able to negotiate for much lower prices. The problem with that is if Medicare is greatly expanded as both Sanders and Trump want, there will not be any real “negotiation”. The federal government will set a “fair” price for anyone receiving Medicare and or VA benefits and the pharmaceutical companies will have to suck it up by a combination of increasing prices on those with private insurance or cost cut for R&D, on new drug development or move their drug manufacturing to countries with lower costs and less regulation – Mexico, China, India…?

Reforming Wall Street
-Again, Trump and Sanders have alignment here. Both hate people who make money on Wall Street, “hedge fund” managers and both think the “wealthy” should pay more taxes. Both Sanders and Trump seem to have ideas of government control of private business.

There are others issues such as the Iran deal – Sanders is all for it and Trump while criticizing it, saying that Iran should not have nukes (South Korea and Japan and Saudi Arabia OTHO?), he just thought we could have negotiated a better “deal”. But what kind of deal? A deal indicates some sort of concessions from both sides. But I’ve never seen what Trump would have been willing to give up for the “better deal”.

Sanders and Trump also want to “save Social Security”. Sanders by expanding it and ending the income cap on payroll withholding and Trump via cost savings, cutting waste and an increase in domestic jobs. But neither are interested in a free market solution or in the move to the privatization of retirement savings.

So I see those issues where Trump and Sanders intersect as being the very same reasons why I am very concerned about Trump.

If Trump reverts back to many of his former liberal positions in the general, I might have to vote my conscience and vote for the Libertarian candidate as I did in ’96 when neither Clinton or Dole or Perot were acceptable choices.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I'm anybody but Hillary, personally. I worry about Trump's handling of the economy, and I think protectionism could actually make a bad situation much, much worse. That being said, I am not someone who thinks that Trump will appoint a liberal to the supreme court. I actually do think he'll be advised well on the USSC. That alone will earn him my vote.

But I do worry about the economy.

[Bigun]

Personally I wish there had been a "not only no but HELL no"  category!

[A-Lert]

So we have people with short memories or obvious subversives.

Yes, we do.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/fundraising/203784-donald-trump-makes-donation-to-ted-cruz

[ABX]

Yes, we do.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/fundraising/203784-donald-trump-makes-donation-to-ted-cruz

To be honest about that, it wasn't a donation to Cruz, it was a donation to the the Jobs, Growth and Freedom Fund that Cruz started but wasn't for his campaign. That PAC was specifically to promote defunding Obamacare and supported many candidates.

[A-Lert]

To be honest about that, it wasn't a donation to Cruz, it was a donation to the the Jobs, Growth and Freedom Fund that Cruz started but wasn't for his campaign. That PAC was specifically to promote defunding Obamacare and supported many candidates.

A Cruz PAC.  How many liberals endorse Republican candidates and financially support the Republican party?



Hotel magnate Donald Trump donated $5,000 to Sen. Ted Cruz’s leadership PAC in January, according to new campaign records.

Trump’s show of support for the Texas Republican's leadership PAC — the maximum allowed under the law per election cycle — is an indication that the men are becoming political allies.

During the 2012 election season, GOP presidential hopefuls made visits to Trump Tower in New York City to court the billionaire, who eventually endorsed Mitt Romney.

The Federal Election Committee’s (FEC) individual donor database has not yet been updated to include the donation, but it shows that Trump also gave $1,000 to Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) in March.

FEC records show Trump has donated more than $127,000 during this election cycle so far, including to the Republican National Committee, the National Republican Senatorial Committee, Sens. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and John Cornyn (R-Texas) and $50,000 to the Kentuckians for Strong Leadership political action committee.

[ABX]

A Cruz PAC.  How many liberals endorse Republican candidates and financially support the Republican party?



Hotel magnate Donald Trump donated $5,000 to Sen. Ted Cruz’s leadership PAC in January, according to new campaign records.

Trump’s show of support for the Texas Republican's leadership PAC — the maximum allowed under the law per election cycle — is an indication that the men are becoming political allies.

During the 2012 election season, GOP presidential hopefuls made visits to Trump Tower in New York City to court the billionaire, who eventually endorsed Mitt Romney.

The Federal Election Committee’s (FEC) individual donor database has not yet been updated to include the donation, but it shows that Trump also gave $1,000 to Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) in March.

FEC records show Trump has donated more than $127,000 during this election cycle so far, including to the Republican National Committee, the National Republican Senatorial Committee, Sens. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and John Cornyn (R-Texas) and $50,000 to the Kentuckians for Strong Leadership political action committee.

That article is actually pretty revealing about that because it shows pretty much all the Republican donations he made that are referenced to, came all at one time- not over his history. It was like in 2012, he started dumping donations to any and every Republican PAC he could find.

One could surmise he was trying to balance out his long history of giving to Democrats, possibly because he was considering a run on the Republican ticket in 2012.

[Luis Gonzalez]

That article is actually pretty revealing about that because it shows pretty much all the Republican donations he made that are referenced to, came all at one time- not over his history. It was like in 2012, he started dumping donations to any and every Republican PAC he could find.

One could surmise he was trying to balance out his long history of giving to Democrats, possibly because he was considering a run on the Republican ticket in 2012.

[Sanguine]

That's pretty amazing.

[A-Lert]

That article is actually pretty revealing about that because it shows pretty much all the Republican donations he made that are referenced to, came all at one time- not over his history. It was like in 2012, he started dumping donations to any and every Republican PAC he could find.

One could surmise he was trying to balance out his long history of giving to Democrats, possibly because he was considering a run on the Republican ticket in 2012.

Trump  has contributed nearly a million dollars to the Republican party vs. less than a half million to the Democrat party over the last 26 years.

[MACVSOG68]

Trump  has contributed nearly a million dollars to the Republican party vs. less than a half million to the Democrat party over the last 26 years.

Still that doesn't address Abaraxas' point.  And if as some say, it was for business reasons, what does that say about any core values he may have?

[A-Lert]

Still that doesn't address Abaraxas' point.  And if as some say, it was for business reasons, what does that say about any core values he may have?

What point?

[catfish1957]

A Cruz PAC.  How many liberals endorse Republican candidates and financially support the Republican party?



Hotel magnate Donald Trump donated $5,000 to Sen. Ted Cruz’s leadership PAC in January, according to new campaign records.

Trump’s show of support for the Texas Republican's leadership PAC — the maximum allowed under the law per election cycle — is an indication that the men are becoming political allies.

During the 2012 election season, GOP presidential hopefuls made visits to Trump Tower in New York City to court the billionaire, who eventually endorsed Mitt Romney.

The Federal Election Committee’s (FEC) individual donor database has not yet been updated to include the donation, but it shows that Trump also gave $1,000 to Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) in March.

FEC records show Trump has donated more than $127,000 during this election cycle so far, including to the Republican National Committee, the National Republican Senatorial Committee, Sens. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and John Cornyn (R-Texas) and $50,000 to the Kentuckians for Strong Leadership political action committee.

Wow. this place has spammers just like FR.

[Sanguine]

Wow. this place has spammers just like FR.

I think Lert came from FR; he can correct me if wrong.

And, he got called on his spamming and agreed to quit.

[gafr60]

I shudder to think that Hillary Clinton should be allowed to select one or more justices of the Supreme Court.  I know the type of a justice she will nominate.  Still wiping the stench off of myself after a long relationship with FR,  but can't let the stench cloud my judgement.

[A-Lert]

Wow. this place has spammers just like FR.

You have a problem with facts? Just because you don't like what is posted doesn't make me a spammer. Should I classify you with an insult?

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

FRefugees meet ALert. I don't believe you've been introduced.

Antibacterial handwipes will be provided by the management.

[A-Lert]

FRefugees meet ALert. I don't believe you've been introduced.

Antibacterial handwipes will be provided by the management.

FR refugees can't leave the clique BS. Everything they complain about, they bring here. Pathetic!

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

FR refugees can't leave the clique BS. Everything they complain about, they bring here. Pathetic!

You're emulating your hero Donald's twitter style, just changed "Pathetic!" to "Sad!".

 

[A-Lert]

You're emulating your hero Donald's twitter style, just changed "Pathetic!" to "Sad!".

 

Hero? Really? How much more juvenile can you get? Please, spare us.

[flowers]

I think Lert came from FR; he can correct me if wrong.

And, he got called on his spamming and agreed to quit.

Do you have proof @Sanguine @A-Lert ?

[A-Lert]

Do you have proof @Sanguine @A-Lert ?

I was banned from FR years ago. I never looked back. Cliques were never my thing. The place got to be like a junior high playground.

[flowers]

I was banned from FR years ago. I never looked back. Cliques were never my thing. The place got to be like a junior high playground.

;)

[A-Lert]

Some do, some do not.  I would agree that those of us who are FR refugees should make an extra effort to maintain civility, especially when discussing something with someone with whom we disagree.

Civility is good. 

[Sanguine]

I would write in Ted Cruz

Yep, and at least it's easy to spell.

[Sanguine]

Do you have proof @Sanguine @A-Lert ?

Flowers, proof of what?  I expressed an opinion and asked Lert to correct me if was wrong.  Looks like he confirmed what I said.

You used the wrong attack method on this one.

[musiclady]

Some do, some do not.  I would agree that those of us who are FR refugees should make an extra effort to maintain civility, especially when discussing something with someone with whom we disagree.

So far, so good.

I haven't seen a single clique here from FR.  I think the complainer is just upset that so many intelligent, articulate people who don't support Trump have arrived on the scene to systematically dismantle his faux conservatism......

[A-Lert]

Flowers, proof of what?  I expressed an opinion and asked Lert to correct me if was wrong.  Looks like he confirmed what I said.

You used the wrong attack method on this one.

Why is asking a question considered an "attack" by some? Unless of course the question is about a posters sanity, sexuality, etc., which Flowers certainly wasn't.

[A-Lert]

So far, so good.

I haven't seen a single clique here from FR.  I think the complainer is just upset that so many intelligent, articulate people who don't support Trump have arrived on the scene to systematically dismantle his faux conservatism......