Author Topic: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump  (Read 3553 times)

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Offline sinkspur

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http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/11-reasons-this-conservative-would-never-ever-ever-vote-for-trump/article/2584098

11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump

By PHILIP KLEIN (@PHILIPAKLEIN) • 2/24/16 2:39 PM

Though there's still time to stop him, it's now looking increasingly likely that Donald Trump will be the Republican nominee. Some conservatives, such as Erick Erickson and my colleague Tim Carney have outlined reasons why they could never vote for him, so I thought it would be worth spelling out why I couldn't – even in a general election against Hillary Clinton. If any Trump fans tell me, "Well, you people in the Establishment forced the likes of Mitt Romney and John McCain on us, and said we had to hold our noses and vote for them, now it's your turn to hold your noses" – you're barking up the wrong tree. In 2012, after Romney was nominated, I wrote an ebook in which I argued that conservatives shouldn't reflexively rally around him as the nominee – instead I encouraged them to follow their consciences. Without further delay, here are my reasons (in no particular order) why I would vote for a third party conservative if any such candidate emerges, or otherwise stay home if Trump is the nominee. This list will be updated as more reasons come to me.

1. Trump has no actual political record, but his previous political persona is liberal

Typically, a major function of primaries is spent exploring the candidates' records and past statements and comparing them against what they're saying on the campaign trail. The reason is that politicians will say anything to get elected, so whatever they say during the campaign season is among the least important in judging how genuine or committed they are to principles. In Trump's case, he has neither a governing record nor a voting record. So all we have to go on are his past statements. And he has a history of taking extreme liberal positions on issues of core importance to conservatives such as myself, as outlined below, on top of his history of donations to Democrats.

2. He's been a supporter of socialized medicine

In his 2000 book The America We Deserve, Trump described himself as a "liberal" on healthcare and suggested the U.S. should look to Canada's socialist system as a "prototype." During a Republican presidential debate, he said the socialist systems in Canada and Scotland worked well. During an interview on "60 Minutes," last September, he said he thought the government should pay for everybody to be covered. He's sprinkled his speeches with some free market rhetoric about supporting health savings accounts and purchasing insurance across state lines, but he hasn't filled out any of the details. And in the same speeches, he's adopted the liberal position of having the government negotiate drug prices.

3. He thinks government should be empowered to trample on private property rights

Back in November, when I pressed Trump on his record on private property rights, he said it was a "stupid" question and went on to defending government seizing private property from the little guy on behalf of big business. Trump is no stranger to this. In the past, he tried to seize control of an elderly widow's house at a fraction of the price she had been previously offered so he could build a limousine parking garage for his casinos – and he has been unapologetic about it, even on the campaign trail. Property rights are a central pillar of a free society and any notion of human liberty.

4. He will perpetuate the federal government's war on youth

The national debt is growing at an unsustainable level, threatening to put a crushing burden on our nation's youth. The longer we wait to do something, the more dire the tradeoffs, the more punishing tax increases we're likely to see, and the more damage we'll see to the economy. Trump talks about the debt problem, but he has offered no plans for resolving it and would likely make it worse. He is opposed to broad reforms of Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security – the primary contributors to our long-term debt crisis – and has made a laundry list of promised new spending, including on infrastructure projects.

5. He won't respect gun rights

At a time when gun owners are facing a major threat, with Democrats eager to impose more and more restrictions and the deciding Supreme Court vote up for grabs, Trump wouldn't have respect for gun rights. In his book, The America We Deserve, Trump actually chastised the Republican Party for not embracing stricter restrictions on gun rights. "The Republicans walk the NRA line and refuse even limited restrictions," he wrote, and then went on to declare, "I support the ban on assault weapons."

6. Trump doesn't care about protecting the unborn

My colleague Tim Carney expounded on this, laying out why Trump cannot be trusted on this issue, but I'd just add this. Protecting the lives of the unborn has become increasingly important to me as I grow older. A tipping point for me was during the Obamacare debate, when Democrats claiming to be pro-life sold out the life issue to expand the welfare state. That made me realize the importance of making sure that the Republican Party stays a pro-life party, because otherwise there will be no major party standing up for the most vulnerable among us.

7. I don't want Republicanism that's served with an entree of racism and sexism

Trump's political rise has both exploited and fueled white resentment – an idea that minorities and foreigners are threatening the white race's dominance of this country. His 2011 flirtation with running for the GOP nomination was based around embracing the conspiracy theory that President Obama wasn't eligible to be president because he wasn't born in the U.S. – which is at the core a racist theory trying to delegitimize the first black president. His current run for office began by attacking Mexicans for being rapists and was turbocharged by calling for banning Muslims from entering the U.S. He's also tried to degrade women, most prominently with sexist attacks directed at Megyn Kelly and Carly Fiorina.

Though it isn't always fair to tie a candidate to the worst of his overzealous supporters, it is alarming that Trump's movement has stirred up an ugly hornet's nest – energizing white supremacists and unleashing all sorts of hate that I have never before witnessed in the more than a decade I've been covering politics. I spoke to one Trump supporter who told me he didn't just want to expel illegal immigrants, but he wanted to kick out all immigrants and "fry them." I find people much more comfortable than ever heaving anti-Semitic insults and threats at me, and I am not alone – women who criticize Trump are greeted with misogynist attacks, and white Christian critics of Trump are attacked as "cuckservatives," essentially, traitors to their race. If this is what Trump could stir up in a few months during a campaign, I hate to see what sort of racism we'd see emerge from his presidency. Furthermore, were Trump to emerge as the nominee, the Republican Party would effectively have to countenance his racist and sexist campaign act – providing him with an infrastructure, the pageantry of their national convention, and so forth. Going forward, this would damage their brand and ability to advocate for limited government.

 
8. I don't want to spend more money because of his promised trade war

Trump has promised a trade war with China, even at one point claiming he wanted a 45 percent tariff on Chinese goods. Though he backtracked on that, as he does with many statements, throughout the campaign, he's been an enemy of free trade. A trade war with China and other countries would hurt American consumers, because they'd suddenly have to pay a lot more for goods that other countries could make more cheaply. At the same time, it would hurt American exports, because other countries would retaliate by slapping tariffs on American goods. A past era of trade protectionism helped create the Great Depression, and I wouldn't expect better results this time around.

9. Trump doesn't care about policy

I know that talking about policy isn't very popular these days, but the bottom line is that the only way conservatives are going to stop the nation's march toward European socialism is to present a compelling alternative policy agenda that would pass through both chambers of Congress. Trump's speeches are filled with pro wrestling style boasts about how he'd crush it on policy, but he's offered very little in the way of details. And when he does offer details, he just reveals his own ignorance. For instance, he's been going around saying that if he were to negotiate drug prices, "we can save as much as $300 billion a year." Yet if you combine all of the spending on prescription drugs both by government and the private sector, you only get $297.7 billion.

10. He's a megalomaniac who doesn't understand constitutional limits on executive power

Trump spends an inordinate amount of his speeches talking about his sheer awesomeness. It's tiresome and easy to mock, but it's also a troubling character trait for somebody seeking the most powerful office in the world. During the Obama administration, conservatives have criticized his tendency to bypass Congress and attempt to impose his will through executive action. Trump has made a number of assertions that reveal his ignorance about the limitations of presidential power – such as his vow to give the death penalty to cop killers. This even though the president cannot simply execute criminals and the death penalty is governed by state laws in and its use in specific cases is dictated by courts. Add to this the fact that Trump has had kind words for the leadership styles of autocrats Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong-un.

Trump has built his candidacy on the idea that he'll say whatever pops into his mind without fear. He's attacked a reporter for being disabled, attacked John McCain for having been captured in Vietnam, claimed Cruz stole Iowa only to back off and then claim it again, bailed out of a debate because he didn't like the moderator, repeatedly vowed to sue people, among other examples of his impulse control problems. It presents a troubling picture of how he'll react if he doesn't get his way in Congress or on the world stage.

11. He won't appoint judges who will interpret the Constitution based on its original meaning

The death of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia has brought a renewed focus to the importance of judicial nominations, with issues such as gun rights, religious liberty and free speech, all hanging by a thread. Trump has conveyed zero understanding of what it means to appoint judges who respect the original intent of the Founders in crafting a government of limited and enumerated powers. His ignorance, coupled with his history of taking liberal positions, and his clear obsession with limitless executive power, does not inspire much confidence. Quite the opposite.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 01:24:19 am by sinkspur »
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2016, 01:29:51 am »
Pretty good reasons.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2016, 12:18:21 pm »
12.  The most vocal branch of conservatism susbsists on righteous defeat.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2016, 01:43:23 pm »
Donald Trump is not a conservative and you're going to see that in the general election.
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Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2016, 01:52:58 pm »


Voting for someone 100% opposed to your political views rather then someone more then 75% on your side is the behavior of a petulant out of control ego, not a “principled” adult.

Advancing your principals some times means getting less then 100% of what you want. This notion “I must get 100% of what I want or I will get nothing” is rationalization for childish petulance, not a rational principled position.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2016, 01:53:49 pm »
I'm glad to see more and more respectable conservatives putting it out there on the line - no vote for Trump, ever. 

Trump leads no movement; his is a cult of personality.   The silver lining - and the real reason to oppose Trump in the fall - is that with his defeat, Trumpism dies with him.     
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Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2016, 01:54:00 pm »
Reagan has some words for the Conservative "Purity over all" Choir

By Ronald Reagan in his autobiography An American Life

“When I began entering into the give and take of legislative bargaining in Sacramento, a lot of the most radical conservatives who had supported me during the election didn’t like it. “Compromise” was a dirty word to them and they wouldn’t face the fact that we couldn’t get all of what we wanted today. They wanted all or nothing and they wanted it all at once. If you don’t get it all, some said, don’t take anything. I’d learned while negotiating union contracts that you seldom got everything you asked for. And I agreed with FDR, who said in 1933: ‘I have no expectations of making a hit every time I come to bat. What I seek is the highest possible batting average.’ If you got seventy-five or eighty percent of what you were asking for, I say, you take it and fight for the rest later, and that’s what I told these radical conservatives who never got used to it.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2016, 01:59:48 pm »

Voting for someone 100% opposed to your political views rather then someone more then 75% on your side is the behavior of a petulant out of control ego, not a “principled” adult.

Advancing your principals some times means getting less then 100% of what you want. This notion “I must get 100% of what I want or I will get nothing” is rationalization for childish petulance, not a rational principled position.

How can I vote for Trump when he is 100% opposed to my notions of self-respect and common decency?   

He's not on "my side".   He's an enemy in a way that even Hillary Clinton is not.   He's telling me that the conservative principles I've retained all my life are meaningless,  and that bullying and pitting neighbor against neighbor are the answers.   Defeat Trump, and start anew.  If that's what left, it will have to do.   
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2016, 02:04:01 pm »

Voting for someone 100% opposed to your political views rather then someone more then 75% on your side is the behavior of a petulant out of control ego, not a “principled” adult.

Advancing your principals some times means getting less then 100% of what you want. This notion “I must get 100% of what I want or I will get nothing” is rationalization for childish petulance, not a rational principled position.

I don't need your arrogant preaching, Johnnie. I will decide who I vote for and what criteria I use.

The first criterion I use is to vote only for conservatives.  Trump is not a conservative in any sense of the word.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2016, 02:07:43 pm »
How can I vote for Trump when he is 100% opposed to my notions of self-respect and common decency?   

He's not on "my side".   He's an enemy in a way that even Hillary Clinton is not.   He's telling me that the conservative principles I've retained all my life are meaningless,  and that bullying and pitting neighbor against neighbor are the answers.   Defeat Trump, and start anew.  If that's what left, it will have to do.   

Exactly.  Trump should have his "mouth washed out with soap," as my mother used to say.

Trumpism must be defeated in whatever way possible.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2016, 02:10:10 pm »

Voting for someone 100% opposed to your political views rather then someone more then 75% on your side is the behavior of a petulant out of control ego, not a “principled” adult.

Advancing your principals some times means getting less then 100% of what you want. This notion “I must get 100% of what I want or I will get nothing” is rationalization for childish petulance, not a rational principled position.

And a "petulant out of control ego" describes Trump perfectly.  He trashes anyone who opposes him, ridicules handicapped people, disrespects women, and is a racial bigot.   None of this is conservative.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2016, 02:17:10 pm »
Reagan has some words for the Conservative "Purity over all" Choir

By Ronald Reagan in his autobiography An American Life

“When I began entering into the give and take of legislative bargaining in Sacramento, a lot of the most radical conservatives who had supported me during the election didn’t like it. “Compromise” was a dirty word to them and they wouldn’t face the fact that we couldn’t get all of what we wanted today. They wanted all or nothing and they wanted it all at once. If you don’t get it all, some said, don’t take anything. I’d learned while negotiating union contracts that you seldom got everything you asked for. And I agreed with FDR, who said in 1933: ‘I have no expectations of making a hit every time I come to bat. What I seek is the highest possible batting average.’ If you got seventy-five or eighty percent of what you were asking for, I say, you take it and fight for the rest later, and that’s what I told these radical conservatives who never got used to it.

Compromise is a fine thing.  But not compromise with the devil. 
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Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2016, 02:35:59 pm »
Find it odd that people who talk the most about Reagan want to ignore his words and cling to their emotion bases opinions.

What would you say about a Candidate who raised taxes 6 times? Signed an illegal alien amnesty? ran away from a Muslim terrorist threat and doubled the size of the Federal Debt in 8 years?

That candidate was Ronald Reagan.

This is the problem you dogmatic purists have. Your perfect flawless candidate does not exist. The problem for your Conservative Pharisees is you all worship a myth Reagan created in the 1990s by the Conservative Media Establishment.

The Reagan myth runs something like this. Reagan, after beating both Carter and the GOP Political Establishment rode into DC, took off his jacket, rolled up his sleeves , and proceeded to beat the snot out of everyone in DC.

The real Reagan was a much more human, flawed, man. Reagan went to DC and proceed to cut deals with a Democrat Congress to move his political ball down the field. He surrendered on any number of political issues that resulted in the Conservative Media Establishment writing in 1986 about how Reagan had “betrayed the Conservative Movement.”

So even if by some miracle you elect you “Principled Conservative” Cruz or "full throated Conservative" Rubio he is going to ride to DC....and cut a whole lot of deals with the Congress to get things done that are going to leave you with a massive case of political purity butt hurt.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2016, 02:46:11 pm »
If Trump has thrown in the towel on conservatism in the friggin' REPUBLICAN PRIMARY, can you imagine the compromises he'll make if he were to be elected?
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Offline massadvj

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2016, 03:00:45 pm »
While there is not a single point here I disagree with, numbers 8 and 10 are the ones that bother me the most.  Even the poor in the USA have the best standard of living in the entire history of human civilization.  This has been the direct result of open, global trade.  The last thing we need is protectionism.

Offline mystery-ak

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2016, 03:05:37 pm »
I see we are up to 11 reasons now.... :smokin:
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2016, 03:23:48 pm »
Quote
Though it isn't always fair to tie a candidate to the worst of his overzealous supporters, it is alarming that Trump's movement has stirred up an ugly hornet's nest – energizing white supremacists and unleashing all sorts of hate that I have never before witnessed in the more than a decade I've been covering politics. I spoke to one Trump supporter who told me he didn't just want to expel illegal immigrants, but he wanted to kick out all immigrants and "fry them." I find people much more comfortable than ever heaving anti-Semitic insults and threats at me, and I am not alone – women who criticize Trump are greeted with misogynist attacks, and white Christian critics of Trump are attacked as "cuckservatives," essentially, traitors to their race. If this is what Trump could stir up in a few months during a campaign, I hate to see what sort of racism we'd see emerge from his presidency. Furthermore, were Trump to emerge as the nominee, the Republican Party would effectively have to countenance his racist and sexist campaign act – providing him with an infrastructure, the pageantry of their national convention, and so forth. Going forward, this would damage their brand and ability to advocate for limited government.

Well said.  And it is this poisonous phenomenon that convinces me that there is just no way Trump can win in the general election.   Nominating Trump is simply a fool's errand.   

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Offline aligncare

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2016, 03:27:54 pm »

The original post is utterly nonsensical.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2016, 03:30:11 pm »
The original post is utterly nonsensical.

To a Trumpster, sure.  But that's okay - why anyone with even a modicum of intelligence would support Trump makes no sense to me either. 

I think we're both going to have to keep carrying on pondering the mysteries of life.   
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Offline aligncare

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2016, 03:31:04 pm »

Voting for someone 100% opposed to your political views rather then someone more then 75% on your side is the behavior of a petulant out of control ego, not a “principled” adult.

Advancing your principals some times means getting less then 100% of what you want. This notion “I must get 100% of what I want or I will get nothing” is rationalization for childish petulance, not a rational principled position.

If I maybe so bold as to correct you, in psychological circles that's referred to as a superiority complex.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2016, 03:32:03 pm »
The original post is utterly nonsensical.

Not in the least. Maybe you don't like the part where Klein references the overt racial overtones of Trump's campaign and how that is playing out in the author's sphere.  Trump has taken coarseness to a new level.

Parents everywhere thank him.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2016, 03:35:35 pm »
The original post is utterly nonsensical.

Very easy for you to say but it will require FACTS and EVIDENCE for you to prove it!
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Offline aligncare

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2016, 03:47:33 pm »
Very easy for you to say but it will require FACTS and EVIDENCE for you to prove it!

I'm done trying to prove anything to you, my friend. You won't except it under any circumstances.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2016, 03:49:54 pm »
If I maybe so bold as to correct you, in psychological circles that's referred to as a superiority complex.

Sorta like how, in psychological circles,  support for Donald Trump is referred to as cultism?   :tongue2:
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Offline Bigun

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Re: 11 reasons this conservative would never, ever, ever vote for Trump
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2016, 03:51:04 pm »
I'm done trying to prove anything to you, my friend. You won't except it under any circumstances.

I don't accept pronouncements as proof! Never have and never will.
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