Author Topic: Focus Group of Trump Supporters Is Undeterred and Fiercely Loyal  (Read 3050 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,409
  • Gender: Male
  • Realistic nihilist
    • Fullervision
Re: Focus Group of Trump Supporters Is Undeterred and Fiercely Loyal
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2015, 01:05:26 am »
I apologize in advance for offending anyone here with the next few paragraphs, but a lot is on my mind with this issue, so here goes:

The whole point of this article, and it's an issue with Trump's supporters for a while now, is their utter lack of regard for anything negative that can be said about their guy, ever. Any character flaw, any policy flaw, any inexcusable personal attack, anything that could reflect on their guy in a negative light, they disregard—or worse, explicitly excuse. All the while, any other candidate with that kind of flaw would be kicked to the curb. I've seen it at times on here. I try not to engage too much in these arguments because of the point of this, and others like it:

Trump supporters, on the whole, are not listening to reason.

No forum can effectively function if one side of the argument is constantly doing the equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling. This is idol worship. I cannot stand idol worship.

Now, shutting down that kind of argument here would not fix the overall problem that we have. The Trump supporters I have seen outside of this forum tend to be lower-class/lower-working-class, male, and not the kind that pay close attention to politics otherwise. They support Trump because he's famous, and because, like them, he's obnoxious (you see a lot of dirty jokes on these kind of people's Facebook profiles). They tend not to pay any attention to the typical political discussion channels; they're not reading Politico or Drudge Report, but they may catch a bit of the news on TV at night or listen to the radio once in a while. Most of the people who do follow politics fairly closely consider the Trump campaign to be a disgrace and a laughingstock. (There is one exception: the Sarah Palin vein. But again, there's some overlap with the crude working class, given Sarah's sex appeal.)

As a working class guy myself (albeit one who, admittedly, probably has a much more middle-class sensibility despite my income), I'm not going to bash the working class for supporting Trump. They see the world in a much more simplistic, reactionary way. But it poses a huge problem for those who legitimately fear the guy and what he's capable of doing. It's very difficult when, even here where we have generally well-informed commentators, any discussion turns into just short of an all-out brawl; think of how difficult it is to get anything to stick with the rest of the base! It is as if they have already decided that Trump is their man and nothing they can hear will change their mind.
New profile picture in honor of Public Domain Day 2024

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
Re: Focus Group of Trump Supporters Is Undeterred and Fiercely Loyal
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2015, 01:19:18 am »
Quote
The Trump supporters I have seen outside of this forum tend to be lower-class/lower-working-class, male, and not the kind that pay close attention to politics otherwise. They support Trump because he's famous, and because, like them, he's obnoxious (you see a lot of dirty jokes on these kind of people's Facebook profiles). They tend not to pay any attention to the typical political discussion channels; they're not reading Politico or Drudge Report, but they may catch a bit of the news on TV at night or listen to the radio once in a while. Most of the people who do follow politics fairly closely consider the Trump campaign to be a disgrace and a laughingstock. (There is one exception: the Sarah Palin vein. But again, there's some overlap with the crude working class, given Sarah's sex appeal.)

jmyrlefuller, you are being intentionally provocative.  You're about to get schooled in the new rules around here.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Mod1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,654
Re: Focus Group of Trump Supporters Is Undeterred and Fiercely Loyal
« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2015, 01:22:03 am »
jmyrlefuller, you are being intentionally provocative.  You're about to get schooled in the new rules around here.

Wrong.

Offline aligncare

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,916
  • Gender: Male
Re: Focus Group of Trump Supporters Is Undeterred and Fiercely Loyal
« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2015, 01:23:38 am »
I apologize in advance for offending anyone here with the next few paragraphs, but a lot is on my mind with this issue, so here goes:

The whole point of this article, and it's an issue with Trump's supporters for a while now, is their utter lack of regard for anything negative that can be said about their guy, ever. Any character flaw, any policy flaw, any inexcusable personal attack, anything that could reflect on their guy in a negative light, they disregard—or worse, explicitly excuse. All the while, any other candidate with that kind of flaw would be kicked to the curb. I've seen it at times on here. I try not to engage too much in these arguments because of the point of this, and others like it:

Trump supporters, on the whole, are not listening to reason.

No forum can effectively function if one side of the argument is constantly doing the equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling. This is idol worship. I cannot stand idol worship.

Now, shutting down that kind of argument here would not fix the overall problem that we have. The Trump supporters I have seen outside of this forum tend to be lower-class/lower-working-class, male, and not the kind that pay close attention to politics otherwise. They support Trump because he's famous, and because, like them, he's obnoxious (you see a lot of dirty jokes on these kind of people's Facebook profiles). They tend not to pay any attention to the typical political discussion channels; they're not reading Politico or Drudge Report, but they may catch a bit of the news on TV at night or listen to the radio once in a while. Most of the people who do follow politics fairly closely consider the Trump campaign to be a disgrace and a laughingstock. (There is one exception: the Sarah Palin vein. But again, there's some overlap with the crude working class, given Sarah's sex appeal.)

As a working class guy myself (albeit one who, admittedly, probably has a much more middle-class sensibility despite my income), I'm not going to bash the working class for supporting Trump. They see the world in a much more simplistic, reactionary way. But it poses a huge problem for those who legitimately fear the guy and what he's capable of doing. It's very difficult when, even here where we have generally well-informed commentators, any discussion turns into just short of an all-out brawl; think of how difficult it is to get anything to stick with the rest of the base! It is as if they have already decided that Trump is their man and nothing they can hear will change their mind.

My response to your lament is what do you want me to do about it? People are going to support their choice. If Trump's campaign message is drawing lots of attention and lots of supporters, nothing you or I can do or say will change that.

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
Re: Focus Group of Trump Supporters Is Undeterred and Fiercely Loyal
« Reply #54 on: December 11, 2015, 01:24:10 am »
Wrong.

So what he said is fine?  I'm really confused by the new rules. I thought "Trump supporters" were off limits.

If I had posted that, somebody would be whining "he's talking about ME!"
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 01:25:26 am by sinkspur »
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Online mystery-ak

  • Owner
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 384,715
  • Let's Go Brandon!
Re: Focus Group of Trump Supporters Is Undeterred and Fiercely Loyal
« Reply #55 on: December 11, 2015, 01:29:10 am »
jmyrlefuller, you are being intentionally provocative.  You're about to get schooled in the new rules around here.

What are these new rules you refer to?...just the same old rules now being enforced..if you don't approve you have another option.
Proud Supporter of Tunnel to Towers
Support the USO
Democrat Party...the Party of Infanticide

“Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”
-Matthew 6:34

Offline EdinVA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,584
  • Gender: Male
Re: Focus Group of Trump Supporters Is Undeterred and Fiercely Loyal
« Reply #56 on: December 11, 2015, 01:29:36 am »
I apologize in advance for offending anyone here with the next few paragraphs, but a lot is on my mind with this issue, so here goes:

The whole point of this article, and it's an issue with Trump's supporters for a while now, is their utter lack of regard for anything negative that can be said about their guy, ever. Any character flaw, any policy flaw, any inexcusable personal attack, anything that could reflect on their guy in a negative light, they disregard—or worse, explicitly excuse. All the while, any other candidate with that kind of flaw would be kicked to the curb. I've seen it at times on here. I try not to engage too much in these arguments because of the point of this, and others like it:

Trump supporters, on the whole, are not listening to reason.

No forum can effectively function if one side of the argument is constantly doing the equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling. This is idol worship. I cannot stand idol worship.

Now, shutting down that kind of argument here would not fix the overall problem that we have. The Trump supporters I have seen outside of this forum tend to be lower-class/lower-working-class, male, and not the kind that pay close attention to politics otherwise. They support Trump because he's famous, and because, like them, he's obnoxious (you see a lot of dirty jokes on these kind of people's Facebook profiles). They tend not to pay any attention to the typical political discussion channels; they're not reading Politico or Drudge Report, but they may catch a bit of the news on TV at night or listen to the radio once in a while. Most of the people who do follow politics fairly closely consider the Trump campaign to be a disgrace and a laughingstock. (There is one exception: the Sarah Palin vein. But again, there's some overlap with the crude working class, given Sarah's sex appeal.)

As a working class guy myself (albeit one who, admittedly, probably has a much more middle-class sensibility despite my income), I'm not going to bash the working class for supporting Trump. They see the world in a much more simplistic, reactionary way. But it poses a huge problem for those who legitimately fear the guy and what he's capable of doing. It's very difficult when, even here where we have generally well-informed commentators, any discussion turns into just short of an all-out brawl; think of how difficult it is to get anything to stick with the rest of the base! It is as if they have already decided that Trump is their man and nothing they can hear will change their mind.

Elitism is contaminating the country.
We are now to the point that no one is listening, only slamming....
No one is trying to solve problems only shoving people into derogatory categories...

Offline aligncare

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,916
  • Gender: Male
Re: Focus Group of Trump Supporters Is Undeterred and Fiercely Loyal
« Reply #57 on: December 11, 2015, 01:30:43 am »
So what he said is fine?  I'm really confused by the new rules. I thought "Trump supporters" were off limits.

If I had posted that, somebody would be whining "he's talking about ME!"

You have your nerve. You want me to pull up your posts? You added an insult to each Trump post. You insulted everything from our intelligence, to our judgment, to our reasoning. All because you don't like Trump. You have some interpersonal issues, my friend.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 01:31:53 am by aligncare »

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
Re: Focus Group of Trump Supporters Is Undeterred and Fiercely Loyal
« Reply #58 on: December 11, 2015, 01:40:12 am »
You have your nerve. You want me to pull up your posts? You added an insult to each Trump post. You insulted everything from our intelligence, to our judgment, to our reasoning. All because you don't like Trump. You have some interpersonal issues, my friend.

Not "your" judgment.  Trump supporters' judgement. Yet I was castigated because, well,  it's me.

But jmyrle can post the very same kind of criticism, and it's OK.

I have no interpersonal issues.  I don't want this country ruined by a liberal imposter.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Mod1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,654
Re: Focus Group of Trump Supporters Is Undeterred and Fiercely Loyal
« Reply #59 on: December 11, 2015, 01:57:07 am »
Why is it always this way?  We are not splitting a baby here. There is some judgment though. jmf's post was not over the line.

Offline jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,409
  • Gender: Male
  • Realistic nihilist
    • Fullervision
Re: Focus Group of Trump Supporters Is Undeterred and Fiercely Loyal
« Reply #60 on: December 11, 2015, 02:00:45 am »
Not "your" judgment.  Trump supporters' judgement. Yet I was castigated because, well,  it's me.

But jmyrle can post the very same kind of criticism, and it's OK.

I have no interpersonal issues.  I don't want this country ruined by a liberal imposter.
If I may say so, you have a bit more of a reputation for sparring than I do.
New profile picture in honor of Public Domain Day 2024

Offline alicewonders

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,021
  • Gender: Female
  • Live life-it's too short to butt heads w buttheads
Re: Focus Group of Trump Supporters Is Undeterred and Fiercely Loyal
« Reply #61 on: December 11, 2015, 02:02:47 am »
Maybe it's just where I live and who I hang with, but the people I know that like Trump tend to be solidly middle-class and just as apt to have a college degree than not.  Most all of them work and are tired of working to pay for a lot of waste, fraud and other stuff they don't agree with.  Most all of them are pretty independent as well. 

Where Trump has an advantage is being able to reach those people that Republicans don't normally reach. 

Don't tread on me.   8888madkitty

We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
Re: Focus Group of Trump Supporters Is Undeterred and Fiercely Loyal
« Reply #62 on: December 11, 2015, 02:03:39 am »
Why is it always this way?  We are not splitting a baby here. There is some judgment though. jmf's post was not over the line.

It's not always this way. It's this way now.  As long as I know that generic, third party depictions of Trump supporters are OK, we're golden.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
Re: Focus Group of Trump Supporters Is Undeterred and Fiercely Loyal
« Reply #63 on: December 11, 2015, 02:06:16 am »
If I may say so, you have a bit more of a reputation for sparring than I do.

That's true.  I bring some of it on myself.  But, because most people here don't like me much, that colors some perceptions.  But, I'll just use your post as a model going forward.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,409
  • Gender: Male
  • Realistic nihilist
    • Fullervision
Re: Focus Group of Trump Supporters Is Undeterred and Fiercely Loyal
« Reply #64 on: December 11, 2015, 02:15:05 am »
Let me give you an example here... I found this meme floating around Facebook today:



Now, Trump has not even addressed the issue of food stamps, yet here are the members of Trump's base, basically saying Trump supports something he never said anything about. (That's not to mention the improper use of "your" vs. "you're.") The ironic part is how many of those people actually have a girlfriend on food stamps. Yet all of this cognitive dissonance is no problem. They're just projecting their views onto the guy.
New profile picture in honor of Public Domain Day 2024

Offline aligncare

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,916
  • Gender: Male
Re: Focus Group of Trump Supporters Is Undeterred and Fiercely Loyal
« Reply #65 on: December 11, 2015, 02:15:53 am »
That's true.  I bring some of it on myself.  But, because most people here don't like me much, that colors some perceptions.  But, I'll just use your post as a model going forward.

Let me set you straight. I've been an admirer of yours for years. Your plainspoken posts have always been strongly opinionated and 7-8 years ago I aspired to emulate them. Then you went off the rails with Allen West, but I'll leave that for another thread.