Author Topic: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace  (Read 5275 times)

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Offline Machiavelli

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Raul A. Reyes
NBC News
November 11, 2015

Quote
... Although Trump glibly describes "Operation Wetback" as moving undocumented immigrants "waaay south," this program was at best inhumane and at worst horrific. Back then, the government rounded up suspected undocumented immigrants and sent them deep into the Mexican interior, where they were abandoned with next to nothing. The transports across the border were reportedly "indescribable scenes of human misery and tragedy." In one instance, 88 deportees died from heat stroke in the desert. Other deportees were sent to the Mexican Gulf Coast by ship, in vessels described by historians as an "eighteenth century slave ship" or "penal hell ship." ...
Full article

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2015, 04:29:17 pm »
 
I'm thinking if you tell them we're going to do that... a bunch of them will find their own way back home...


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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2015, 04:39:53 pm »
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Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace

Of course it was - to Mexico.

Offline xfreeper

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2015, 05:26:28 pm »

I'm thinking if you tell them we're going to do that... a bunch of them will find their own way back home...

Especially if we simply cease support, benefits and any incentives for illegal aliens to be here

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2015, 05:28:46 pm »
Especially if we simply cease support, benefits and any incentives for illegal aliens to be here

Exactly!  Isn't that how we created the problem?

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2015, 05:31:59 pm »
Raul A. Reyes
NBC News
November 11, 2015
Full article

Wow. Enforcing the law is a "disgrace". Curious if this reporter would say the same thing to every other nation in the world, all of whom have MUCH tougher immigration enforcement and laws then the USA does.

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2015, 05:33:57 pm »
Raul A. Reyes
NBC News
November 11, 2015
Full article

indescribable scenes of human misery and tragedy


Source for this claim? Given the habitual lying for political reasons we seen in the US Media over the last 20 years, they are no longer credit sources of fact.

Offline Machiavelli

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2015, 05:39:45 pm »
Especially if we simply cease support, benefits and any incentives for illegal aliens to be here

This won't happen. The courts will shoot any such attempt down.

Offline famousdayandyear

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2015, 06:19:03 pm »
This site is no longer credible while members, owners, and mods quote and post from KNOWN biased and questionable media sources such as NBC News, Politico, The Hill, Washington Post, NY Times.  Such  posts are intended to increase traffic and dissent.

You are a closed society--good friends, more than likely.  Wake UP

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2015, 06:24:58 pm »
This site is no longer credible while members, owners, and mods quote and post from KNOWN biased and questionable media sources such as NBC News, Politico, The Hill, Washington Post, NY Times.  Such  posts are intended to increase traffic and dissent.

You are a closed society--good friends, more than likely.  Wake UP

THey're no more questionable than The New American and some of those goofy conspiracy sites that one particular poster puts up on a regular basis.

It takes all kinds to make for vigorous debate, so let's not try to shoehorn GBR into some kind of TOS-like site that limits what's put up.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Machiavelli

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2015, 06:34:59 pm »
This site is no longer credible while members, owners, and mods quote and post from KNOWN biased and questionable media sources such as NBC News, Politico, The Hill, Washington Post, NY Times.  Such  posts are intended to increase traffic and dissent.

You are a closed society--good friends, more than likely.  Wake UP

What is a good source? Wing Nut Daily?

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2015, 06:37:40 pm »
What is a good source? Wing Nut Daily?

Wing Nut Daily, Brietbart, and barbwire.com.   Oh and the Birchite New American.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2015, 06:41:07 pm »
Especially if we simply cease support, benefits and any incentives for illegal aliens to be here

 :thumbsup2:

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2015, 06:48:37 pm »
Especially if we simply cease support, benefits and any incentives for illegal aliens to be here

When American citizens start roofing houses, doing lawn work, painting, and washing dishes for the same amount of money illegals work for, the illegals will be gone.

Nobody believes that's suddenly going to happen, so there will always be an incentive for illegals to stay.  The GOP just has to figure out how to pass a guest worker program that basically allows illegals to stay here and work.  That's all they want.  The vast majority don't want citizenship.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline aligncare

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2015, 07:08:30 pm »
NBC news: where straight, white, tax-paying Americans are second class citizens, good only for paying for the social services provided free to illegal aliens and who constitute the most pressing problem facing America today, next to Christianity.

NBC news to Americans: "hey, pay up and shut up. Don't you know that the donor class depends on the importation of cheap peasant labor? How do you expect us to afford to buy our next Lear jet if we can't exploit Mexican peasants?

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2015, 07:36:14 pm »
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2015, 07:41:01 pm »
This won't happen. The courts will shoot any such attempt down.

And the courts are now King of America?  I don't think so!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2015, 07:50:40 pm »
Only 11 percent of Hispanics like Trump: poll

http://nypost.com/2015/10/26/only-11-percent-of-hispanics-like-trump-poll/

Trump is constantly touting his support among Hispanics, as if his saying so makes it so.

He is despised by Hispanics and would lose in Goldwater proportions if he won the nomination.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline ABX

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2015, 08:06:12 pm »
And the courts are now King of America?  I don't think so!

Unfortunately they act like it.  All you need is for those rounded up to start saying they are US citizens. At that point, the onus of proof is on the government (due process) to show otherwise. They just need to say, 'I am a US Citizen and I won't answer questions and I demand a lawyer'.  Now they are in the legal system and the government has to formally charge them in order to detain them, which involves showing proof they are not a citizen but in the country illegally.   As I pointed out last night, there are 200 immigration judges in the US right now. They handle approximately 1500 cases per year. Divide that by 15 million illegal aliens and at that rate, without increasing the size of government drastically, it would take ten thousand years to process all of them.

It is not as easy as 'round them up and ship them off' as some politicians claim, even if that is ideally what would happen.

Ike and Truman did it without social media or social justice warriors taking every case. They also did it with an illegal population who came under much friendlier circumstances during WWII when they were coming to help and we welcomed them through a 'look the other way' policy. (and even then, the deportations were controversial as many were just trucked down and dumped in the middle of Mexico far away from their homes without the permission of the government there).

I don't have the answer. What I'm saying is that anyone who promises to 'round them up and ship them off' in two years (or four or a decade) without creating an unconstitutional police state is as full of s*** as Bernie Sanders promising free houses and free college.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2015, 08:11:14 pm »
Trump himself knows he can't do what he says he wants to do, which is another reason why I can't stand the sonofabitch.

He's a PT Barnum, blatantly lying to the suckers who lap up his every word.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2015, 08:13:41 pm »
Unfortunately they act like it.  All you need is for those rounded up to start saying they are US citizens. At that point, the onus of proof is on the government (due process) to show otherwise. They just need to say, 'I am a US Citizen and I won't answer questions and I demand a lawyer'.  Now they are in the legal system and the government has to formally charge them in order to detain them, which involves showing proof they are not a citizen but in the country illegally.   As I pointed out last night, there are 200 immigration judges in the US right now. They handle approximately 1500 cases per year. Divide that by 15 million illegal aliens and at that rate, without increasing the size of government drastically, it would take ten thousand years to process all of them.

It is not as easy as 'round them up and ship them off' as some politicians claim, even if that is ideally what would happen.

Ike and Truman did it without social media or social justice warriors taking every case. They also did it with an illegal population who came under much friendlier circumstances during WWII when they were coming to help and we welcomed them through a 'look the other way' policy. (and even then, the deportations were controversial as many were just trucked down and dumped in the middle of Mexico far away from their homes without the permission of the government there).

I don't have the answer. What I'm saying is that anyone who promises to 'round them up and ship them off' in two years (or four or a decade) without creating an unconstitutional police state is as full of s*** as Bernie Sanders promising free houses and free college.

We don't need to round up or move anyone! All we need to do is turn off the damned magnets that bring them here and they will leave on their own!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline ABX

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2015, 08:27:39 pm »
We don't need to round up or move anyone! All we need to do is turn off the damned magnets that bring them here and they will leave on their own!

I agree with this.

Offline famousdayandyear

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2015, 08:32:59 pm »
Wing Nut Daily, Brietbart, and barbwire.com.   Oh and the Birchite New American.

When was it that NBC News suddenly became a trusted source for political
information?  When did you stop using your own brain?

Offline Paladin

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2015, 09:10:16 pm »
"the government rounded up suspected undocumented immigrants and sent them deep into the Mexican interior, where they were abandoned with next to nothing. The transports across the border were reportedly "indescribable scenes of human misery and tragedy." In one instance, 88 deportees died from heat stroke in the desert"

Sounds to me like the failure was that of the Mexican govt, not the Eisenhower admin. Why didn't they take responsibility for their own people?

Interestingly enough, I was just reading a commentary on "Operation Wetback" (not its real name, btw) which pointed out that the desert in which the illegals were callously and cruelly "dumped" was "the desert the illegals chose to cross to get into the U.S."
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 09:45:02 pm by Paladin »
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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2015, 10:39:29 pm »
From the article:
"Other deportees were sent to the Mexican Gulf Coast by ship, in vessels described by historians as an "eighteenth century slave ship" or "penal hell ship." ..."

I will applaud and cheer as loudly as my lungs will permit when they bring something like this back:

Offline PzLdr

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2015, 11:46:50 pm »
This won't happen. The courts will shoot any such attempt down.


Try a little Andy Jackson: "Mr. Marshall has ruled. Now let him enforce it."
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Offline raml

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2015, 12:07:35 am »
We can only hope Fishrrman. I would also cheer it. All they have to do is go to the cities and round up a majority of the gangs and poor.  I am sick of our country being bankrupted by illegals on welfare or taking our SS and we don't need illegals to do roofs there would be enough Citizens or legal immigrants standing in line for those jobs. We may not get rid of them all but we can make it so uncomfortable the rest will go home. No one but Eisenhower tried and it worked and it isn't up to us to keep them alive it is up to their country. We are at the edge of death to a freedom loving republic and I can't believe people want to take in the world and ruin it. You want to help other countries leave them alone or teach them to take care of themselves and let the middle east burn and keep their citizens out of this country unless you want us to burn too. Let charities do their work they do a much better job of it.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2015, 02:11:29 am »
Trump is constantly touting his support among Hispanics, as if his saying so makes it so.

He is despised by Hispanics and would lose in Goldwater proportions if he won the nomination.
I heard Cruz on Fox radio today, complaining that if the GOP nominates a Dole, McCain, Romney again, they would lose.

But nobody reminds that the GOP won with Eisenhower, Nixon, Bush I and Bush II all of whom would fall far short of what "true conservatives" demand for purity today.

They point to Reagan, the one and ONLY "conservative" by their own criteria, and ignore Goldwater, which some think could happen again if the nativist faction rules the day.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline xfreeper

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2015, 03:35:59 am »
We don't need to round up or move anyone! All we need to do is turn off the damned magnets that bring them here and they will leave on their own!

Bingo. Lock up people that employ them as well.

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2015, 08:21:36 am »
I heard Cruz on Fox radio today, complaining that if the GOP nominates a Dole, McCain, Romney again, they would lose.

But nobody reminds that the GOP won with Eisenhower, Nixon, Bush I and Bush II all of whom would fall far short of what "true conservatives" demand for purity today.

They point to Reagan, the one and ONLY "conservative" by their own criteria, and ignore Goldwater, which some think could happen again if the nativist faction rules the day.

Funny thing is by that groups standard, Reagan was not a pure enough Conservative for them. Reagan did a whole bunch of things that today's Conservatives would of been apoplectic about.

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2015, 08:53:06 am »
I heard Cruz on Fox radio today, complaining that if the GOP nominates a Dole, McCain, Romney again, they would lose.

But nobody reminds that the GOP won with Eisenhower, Nixon, Bush I and Bush II all of whom would fall far short of what "true conservatives" demand for purity today.

They point to Reagan, the one and ONLY "conservative" by their own criteria, and ignore Goldwater, which some think could happen again if the nativist faction rules the day.

I'm one of those who would enthusiastically RUN to the polls to vote for Barry Goldwater if he were here today.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Bigun

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2015, 08:54:03 am »
Bingo. Lock up people that employ them as well.

Yes sir! Part of turning off the magnets if we were serious about doing that!
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 09:06:00 am by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2015, 09:05:02 am »
Funny thing is by that groups standard, Reagan was not a pure enough Conservative for them. Reagan did a whole bunch of things that today's Conservatives would of been apoplectic about.

Yeah, well the globalists also had to shoot him to get his attention...


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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2015, 01:44:17 pm »
I'm one of those who would enthusiastically RUN to the polls to vote for Barry Goldwater if he were here today.
What about the rest of the argument that I made; namely when Cruz says only a "conservative" can win, he ignores Eisenhower, Nixon, Bush I and Bush II ??

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Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2015, 01:49:13 pm »
What about the rest of the argument that I made; namely when Cruz says only a "conservative" can win, he ignores Eisenhower, Nixon, Bush I and Bush II ??

A simple non-sequitur.

Cruz is talking about the 2016 race...

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2015, 03:25:19 pm »
A simple non-sequitur.

Cruz is talking about the 2016 race...
Okay you are not going to address it either.

There have been four GOP Presidents elected post WWII that people today would classify as less than "true conservatives" and only one that was

So how does that support the argument that only a true conservative can win IN 2016?
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2015, 04:07:11 pm »
Okay you are not going to address it either.

There have been four GOP Presidents elected post WWII that people today would classify as less than "true conservatives" and only one that was

So how does that support the argument that only a true conservative can win IN 2016?

Again... your argument is a non-sequitur...  it does not follow and does not need to be addressed...

Just because you can make up an irrelevant argument does not mean that anybody owes you an explanation... or that your non-sequitur becomes valid if no one addresses it...

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

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Offline musiclady

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2015, 04:18:31 pm »
This site is no longer credible while members, owners, and mods quote and post from KNOWN biased and questionable media sources such as NBC News, Politico, The Hill, Washington Post, NY Times.  Such  posts are intended to increase traffic and dissent.

You are a closed society--good friends, more than likely.  Wake UP

Part of the discussion and learning process is to see what is being said, discuss it, disprove it, learn from it.

Leftist sources are cited all the time....... not as the way we should think, rather what to help us think about.

And dissent is the essence of politics.

Don't try to diminish it by supporting group think.  The lack of group think is what makes this site better than others.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

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Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Online Bigun

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2015, 01:48:52 pm »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline xfreeper

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2015, 06:50:12 pm »
that would be Right 'Out' of the USA

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2015, 06:51:46 pm »
that would be Right 'Out' of the USA

Yep!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2015, 09:03:15 pm »
Wow. Enforcing the law is a "disgrace". Curious if this reporter would say the same thing to every other nation in the world, all of whom have MUCH tougher immigration enforcement and laws then the USA does.

Wow, I wonder if you'll be singing quite the same tune when it comes to enforcing the anti-piracy and copyright laws against you.  Did you ask permission from the owner of the photo you have as your avatar whether you could in fact use the image for your avatar?

Or maybe law enforcement is just for those whom you dislike?

Oceander

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2015, 09:03:54 pm »


/snicker


Calling that pie-in-the-sky would be an insult to pies in the sky.

Oceander

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #43 on: November 13, 2015, 09:05:05 pm »
Try a little Andy Jackson: "Mr. Marshall has ruled. Now let him enforce it."

That's a good precedent to follow.  Sounds just like something Obama would say.

Oceander

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #44 on: November 13, 2015, 09:06:01 pm »
And the courts are now King of America?  I don't think so!



You have no earthly idea whereof you speak.

Offline PzLdr

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #45 on: November 13, 2015, 10:36:34 pm »
That's a good precedent to follow.  Sounds just like something Obama would say.

Obama's said it, and done it. Goose, gander, etc. And the Constitution did not give the USSC the power it wields today. That was done by the aforementioned Justice Marshall [Marbury vs. Madison] who found an 'implied' power for the review of Federal laws.
Hillary's Self-announced Qualifications: She Stood Up To Putin...She Sits to Pee

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2015, 10:46:49 am »
Obama's said it, and done it. Goose, gander, etc. And the Constitution did not give the USSC the power it wields today. That was done by the aforementioned Justice Marshall [Marbury vs. Madison] who found an 'implied' power for the review of Federal laws.

What's the saying? 

"5 people in robes give 1 person total control over immigration and we're supposed to believe that's Constitutional?"

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Oceander

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2015, 09:43:31 pm »
Obama's said it, and done it. Goose, gander, etc. And the Constitution did not give the USSC the power it wields today. That was done by the aforementioned Justice Marshall [Marbury vs. Madison] who found an 'implied' power for the review of Federal laws.

So long as there is a court that is a coequal branch of the government you cannot avoid having a court being the ultimate arbiter of what is, and what is not, the law, and what the content of that law is.  You should try reading Marshall's opinion, carefully, before you spout off like that.

Offline PzLdr

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2015, 11:47:05 pm »
So long as there is a court that is a coequal branch of the government you cannot avoid having a court being the ultimate arbiter of what is, and what is not, the law, and what the content of that law is.  You should try reading Marshall's opinion, carefully, before you spout off like that.

I did [first year Law]. I also read the Constitution. The Founders made no provision for the powers Marshall gave himself. And since the Court is appointed for life, and there are NO checks and balances on what they do [aside from re-drafting laws, or amending the constitution, which is neither]  the Court is, in fact, not co-equal, but superior to the other branches. And that is NOT what they intended. Something to consider before you spout off like that.
Hillary's Self-announced Qualifications: She Stood Up To Putin...She Sits to Pee

Oceander

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Re: Opinion: Sorry Trump, "Operation Wetback" Was a National Disgrace
« Reply #49 on: November 15, 2015, 12:11:43 am »
I did [first year Law]. I also read the Constitution. The Founders made no provision for the powers Marshall gave himself. And since the Court is appointed for life, and there are NO checks and balances on what they do [aside from re-drafting laws, or amending the constitution, which is neither]  the Court is, in fact, not co-equal, but superior to the other branches. And that is NOT what they intended. Something to consider before you spout off like that.

Then you didn't read it very well.  What is the function of a court?  It's to apply the law to a given set of facts, correct?  That begs two questions:  (1) how does one determine what the law is?  (2) how is a particular law, once the meaning has been ascertained, to be applied to a given set of facts?

Neither of these is an easy question to answer except in the simplest of cases.  They certainly aren't easy when it comes to the Constitution.

What Marshall did was to conclude, very sensibly, that since the Supreme Court was the highest court in the land, it had the final word on the precise meaning of any particular law and the final word on how that law, once the meaning was determined, applied to a given set of facts.

And the question of determining what the law is has further wrinkles.  In particular, where the Constitution and federal statutory law is concerned, if there is a conflict between the two that conflict must be navigated by a court that is trying to determine what the law is.  Specifically, the court must determine  whether there is a conflict, and if so which law prevails over the other as a result of that conflict.  This is part of the core, fundamental meaning of what a court is; if a court cannot determine which law prevails in the case of a conflict, then it cannot apply the law to the facts, and it cannot reach a decision, meaning that there is an injury, a wrong, for which the courts are intended, which cannot be addressed by a court.

Therefore, when it comes to the Constitution, it is the courts, and ultimately the Supreme Court, that gets the final say on whether a particular statute conflicts with the Constitution, and if it does, then the Court must apply the Constitution and hold the statute unconstitutional.

But there again we revert back to the original issue:  what does the Constitution mean?  Again, only a court can determine that matter because it is the special province of the court to determine the law and then apply it to the facts.  That means that when it comes to applying the Constitution to a given set of facts it is the Supreme Court, and only the Supreme Court, that has, or can have, the final word on the matter.

And that is exactly what the Founders gave the Supreme Court.  They made it the highest court in the land, and put it on an equal footing with the other two branches of the federal government.

The only way the Supreme Court can be trumped when it comes to the Constitution is the only way the Founders intended:  amendment of the Constitution itself.  The Founders expressly provided for an amendment process and therefore they clearly understood that there would be situations in which the Constitution - as applied by the Supreme Court - was found wanting, and they provided the sole way to override the Supreme Court's decisions.

They intended - or, since we can no longer cross-examine any of them in person, they must have intended (Brian Dailey Intent) - for the Supreme Court to have the final say on exactly what the Constitution meant as it was applied to a particular set of facts.  If they had not, then why have a separate and co-equal court at all?  If that was not to be part of the Supreme Court's purpose, then administrative courts (what are also known as non-Article III courts) would be sufficient.