Author Topic: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican  (Read 7608 times)

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Offline flowers

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Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« on: January 31, 2015, 10:30:22 am »
http://www.people.com/article/bruce-jenner-transitioning-woman

Quote



01/30/2015 AT 07:55 PM EST
His changing look has been a much-buzzed-about topic for months, and now PEOPLE has confirmed that Bruce Jenner has been quietly making a very personal change. The former Olympian will soon be living life as female.

"Bruce is transitioning to a woman," says a source close to the family. "He is finally happy and his family is accepting of what he's doing. He's in such a great space. That's why it's the perfect time to do something like this."

And according to a different Jenner insider, the 65-year-old reality star is filming his momentous journey, to be shared with viewers on a docu-series this year. "It will air when he is ready to be open about his transition," the source tells PEOPLE. "But he's acting more and more confident and seems very happy."

Jenner's much-documented physical appearance (he's been photographed with longer hair, manicured nails and wearing makeup) has led to much speculation, but according to the insider, Jenner's decision to transition slowly was made in part so that his family would have time to adapt to the change.

« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 10:32:31 am by flowers »


Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2015, 10:58:39 am »
 
Apparently, being married to Kris Kardashian had a negative effect on his manhood...


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Offline flowers

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2015, 11:21:10 am »

Apparently, being married to Kris Kardashian had a negative effect on his manhood...
Yep


Offline mountaineer

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2015, 12:55:57 pm »
A reality show, eh. The things some people will do for money!

More:
Quote
Bruce Jenner to discuss transformation on TV
By Bryan Hood, NY Post
January 28, 2015 | 2:32pm

Bruce Jenner is ready for the world to see who he really is.

The former Olympian and reality star, 65, has taped an interview and is currently filming an unscripted E! reality series of his own about his “desire to look like a woman and live as one,” reports Us Weekly.

“It’s a docuseries featuring the Jenner family talking about Bruce ‘coming out.’ The world will see his full transformation,” a source told the magazine.

The magazine claims Jenner finally feels comfortable speaking out because of the support of his 10 children and stepchildren.

“He has been carrying this with him for so long that everyone is relieved he is starting to come out with it,” the source said. “They were so worried that their dad had no one to talk to about this. They are happy when he opens up because it’s been such a long time coming.”

Stepdaughter Kim Kardashian talked about her stepfather’s journey, which Us Weekly says will be a plot point on the upcoming season of “Keeping Up with the Kardashians,” earlier this week.

“I think everyone goes through things in life and I think that story and what Bruce is going through, I think he’ll share whenever the time is right,” she said on Monday. “I feel like that’s his journey to talk about.”

Someone who has been less encouraging is ex-wife Kris, who, the magazine reports, has been aware of his desire to live as a woman since the beginning of their relationship.

“She treats the whole thing like it will just go away,” a family source told the magazine. “She tells the public it isn’t true rather than try to understand. She has made no attempt to seriously understand him.”

A request for comment from Jenner’s representative was not immediately returned.

The show will begin airing in either May or June, reports TMZ.
I wonder what his other ex-wives think about it.
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Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2015, 01:02:46 pm »
Quote
plot point on the upcoming season of “Keeping Up with the Kardashians,”

I guess viewers have lost interest in births, marriages and big butts!
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2015, 01:04:18 pm »
With all that's going on in this country and around the world, it's more than a little disturbing that this "family" and their various contrived psycho dramas are on anyone's radar.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2015, 01:40:51 pm »
The Kardashian gig is something that pre-teens, teens and their moms can all do together in our society.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/how-kardashians-made-65-million-100349

Bruce needs to do something to justify his cut of the family money pie, so to speak. Why not do makeup and hair, too?

Ain't the entertainment business fascinating? And consumer brands, too.
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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2015, 02:28:19 pm »
The Kardashian gig is something that pre-teens, teens and their moms can all do together in our society.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/how-kardashians-made-65-million-100349

Bruce needs to do something to justify his cut of the family money pie, so to speak. Why not do makeup and hair, too?

Ain't the entertainment business fascinating? And consumer brands, too.

Is anyone certain this isn't what he is already doing?  I see another sequel to the never ending Kardashian trash line. :facepalm2:

Offline mountaineer

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2015, 01:19:13 pm »
Is anyone in this extended family not crazy?
Quote
Bruce Jenner’s mom: I’m more proud of his transition than his gold medals
By Derrick Bryson Taylor
February 3, 2015 | 11:48am
NY Post

Bruce Jenner’s mother, Esther, says she supports the former Olympian “whole-heartedly” as Bruce transitions from male to female.

“I just learned about [his transition],” Esther told Radar Online on Tuesday. “Bruce filled me in, and we had a very long, long, long talk about it.”

“I have never been more proud of Bruce for who he is, himself as a father, as an Olympian, wonderful public speaker,” she said of the father of six. “He instills enthusiasm in people. He’s gifted.”

On Tuesday, Page Six confirmed that Bruce, 65, will discuss his transition at length with Diane Sawyer in an interview set to air in May. Bruce will also star in a docuseries that will chronicle the transition.

Although Esther says she wasn’t aware of her son’s changing feelings, she’s more proud of “what he’s allowing himself to do.”

“I am more proud of him now than when he stood on that podium and put the gold medal around his neck,” Esther said. “He deserves all the respect.”

Kim Kardashian recently spoke on the changes in her stepfather’s life.

“I think everyone goes through things in life and I think that story and what Bruce is going through, I think he’ll share whenever the time is right,” Kardashian told “Entertainment Tonight” on Jan. 27.

Bruce appears to have the support of family. “Well, we support Bruce no matter what,” she added, acknowledging the family portrait blasted through social media.

Ex-wife Kris Jenner has yet to address the news.
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Offline PzLdr

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2015, 11:25:11 pm »
Who gives a sh*t? With all that's going on in the world, whether or not Bruce Jenner gets chopped and channeled is important? God save us from low info voters, the slug media that feeds them and anything Kardashian.
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Offline flowers

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2015, 11:07:14 am »

Quote
He instills enthusiasm in people. He’s gifted
no he is mentally ill.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 11:08:21 am by flowers »


Offline Machiavelli

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2015, 05:54:21 pm »
Why Bruce Jenner’s Interview Could Be a Watershed Moment

The two hour interview is tonight with Diane Sawyer on ABC.



Offline mountaineer

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2015, 05:57:45 pm »
No, thanks,  I think I'll be washing my hair. Or something.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 05:58:29 pm by mountaineer »
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Offline flowers

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2015, 06:01:25 pm »
Nope......not going to watch this freak show. The left has got to be loving this. Bruce was on the Wheaties box. He is conservative. 
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 06:07:04 pm by flowers »


Offline flowers

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2015, 06:11:27 pm »
Why Bruce Jenner’s Interview Could Be a Watershed Moment

The two hour interview is tonight with Diane Sawyer on ABC.


Let me guess the signal letters................. NFW?  WTF? 


Offline Machiavelli

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2015, 06:28:34 pm »
Let me guess the signal letters................. NFW?  WTF?

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Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2015, 06:45:05 pm »
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2015, 06:49:00 pm »
This is pretty disturbing stuff. However, I don't know what he's going through and so I'm not going to judge him.

I do know that evolution is a process driven by genetic mutation and of course environment.  Just look around you. Degrees of masculinity and femininity can be found on a continuum in the population. Some women are extremely feminine, others not. Some men are extremely masculine, others not. It all depends on genetics and genetic expression.

Of course, I also believe homosexuality is inborn, not acquired.  And even within that paradigm there are unknown variables.

Offline 240B

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2015, 08:24:05 pm »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVXmMMSo47s

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Offline Machiavelli

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2015, 09:30:29 pm »
Bruce Jenner: 'I'm a Woman'

Quote
Bruce Jenner was once hailed as the greatest athlete in the world and later became a reality television star with one of the world's most famous families. Now, the former Olympian is revealing a secret that has caused him turmoil for decades.

"For all intents and purposes, I'm a woman," Jenner told ABC's Diane Sawyer in an exclusive interview that aired Friday in a special two-hour edition of ABC News' "20/20."

"People look at me differently. They see you as this macho male, but my heart and my soul and everything that I do in life -- it is part of me," Jenner, 65, said. "That female side is part of me. That's who I am."
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Offline Machiavelli

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2015, 09:38:31 pm »
This is pretty disturbing stuff. However, I don't know what he's going through and so I'm not going to judge him.

I'm sympathetic toward him.

Quote
Of course, I also believe homosexuality is inborn, not acquired.  And even within that paradigm there are unknown variables.

Well said, and I agree.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2015, 12:21:26 am »
In an interview with ABC's Diane Sawyer which aired Friday night, former track and field Olympian Bruce Jenner acknowledged for the first time that he was a transgender American.

"Yes, for all intents and purposes, I'm a woman," Jenner told Sawyer on ABC News’ "20/20."

The more shocking revelation for many, however, was Jenner's admission that in addition to identifying as a woman, he also identified as a conservative Republican.

"Are you a Republican?" a stunned Sawyer asked the former patriarch of the Jenner-Kardashian household. "Yeah," Jenner reticently responded. "Is that a bad thing?"

"Neither political party has a monopoly on understanding," Jenner told Sawyer, who advised him to ask Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Speaker John Boehner for help championing the cause of transgender people.

"I would do that, in a heartbeat," Jenner retorted. "Yeah, why not?"

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/240053-bruce-jenner-comes-out-as-a-transgender-conservative-republican
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Offline alicewonders

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2015, 01:03:51 am »
The world we live in.  In Hollywood, it's more shocking to be a Republican than to be a transgender. 

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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2015, 01:21:42 am »
The world we live in.  In Hollywood, it's more shocking to be a Republican than to be a transgender.

Sawyer damned near fell out of her chair.

jenner described himself as a conservative who loves the Constitution. He made it very clear that he didn't approve of Obama.
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Offline Carling

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2015, 02:35:30 am »
Twitter went from loving Bruce's "courage" to hating him within seconds of his admission.

From what I've seen, Conservatives are more accepting of Transgenders than Liberals are of Transgenders.  Amazing!
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2015, 02:39:39 am »
Twitter went from loving Bruce's "courage" to hating him within seconds of his admission.

From what I've seen, Conservatives are more accepting of Transgenders than Liberals are of Transgenders.  Amazing!

This is incredible.

I don't "know" Jenner per se, but he makes the second transgender Christian conservative Republican that I know.

Quote
Transgender Candidate Receives 22% in GOP House Primary
Donna Milo places third on Florida's 20th district

As Senate and gubernatorial races dominated political headlines Tuesday night, here's a result that was easy to overlook: transgender candidate Donna Milo received 22 percent of the vote in her Republican primary for Florida's 20th congressional district.

Milo placed third in a three-way race, finishing behind winner Karen Harrington (40 percent) and runner-up Robert Lowry (38 percent). Milo received over 4,100 votes out of more than 18,400 cast.

The district, which surrounds Ft. Lauderdale, is strongly Democratic. Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, a deputy Democratic whip, currently represents it.

I worked that campaign.
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Offline Carling

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2015, 02:53:20 am »
This is incredible.

I don't "know" Jenner per se, but he makes the second transgender Christian conservative Republican that I know.

I worked that campaign.

I do want to add by that "conservatives," I meant "RINOs" such as you and I are labeled by the far right in our party.  Social conservatives are likely embarrassed and mad at Jenner for saying he's a conservative Christian.  I hope they realize what a wonderful opportunity this is for the GOP to reach out to young voters here.  A PAC ad needs to be made, targeting large swing-state campuses such as Columbus, Ann Arbor, Bloomington, and State College, pointing out the reaction to Jenner by the left before and after he said he is a Republican. 
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Offline Carling

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2015, 03:25:06 am »
Another thought:

How do Matthew 7:1 and Luke 6:37 fit into social conservatives judging others?  Isn't that God's judgement, ultimately? 
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Offline raml

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2015, 03:55:30 am »
By judging do you mean we are judging when we don't agree with their lifestyle. I am not judging when I find myself not agreeing with it due to my Christian beliefs. God agrees with us just fine thank you. He expects us to love the sinner not the sin on that we read the bible and go from there. I don't agree with the lifestyle due to God doesn't make mistakes. I think it is wrong and God does expect me to discern who I pick as friends and Bruce Jenner would not be one I would pick but I doubt Bruce cares about that. We have to live by what our Bible which I consider the word of God when deciding how to live or not live or who we choose to support. Otherwise God was a liar which I know he isn't and the world whether they like it or not someday will also know this but it will be to late. People these days don't like to admit there is sin or that hell exists they like to live guilt free but that won't work in the end.

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2015, 08:00:01 am »
Another thought:

How do Matthew 7:1 and Luke 6:37 fit into social conservatives judging others?  Isn't that God's judgement, ultimately?
It depends. Honestly, I don't really care what Bruce Jenner decides to do with his body. He's 65 flipping years old. But I have no interest in it, and as a Christian, my biggest concern is the agenda getting into the church. We are called to call out our own for sexual sins, even in the New Testament (see 1 Corinthians 5, which is eerily similar to Leviticus 18), but not so far as stoning them to death.

Outside of the church, what they do is their own business.
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2015, 08:06:03 am »
Quote
Of course, I also believe homosexuality is inborn, not acquired.  And even within that paradigm there are unknown variables.
I would suspect that it's a combination of the two: there may be tendencies (and most studies have pointed to developmental, as opposed to genetic, causes for those), but actions and experiences also shape how we respond to them.
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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2015, 08:40:12 am »

I wonder if that TV reality show deal will be honored.   :whistle: 

Thought, that may have been the motive for a 65 year old man to transgender...an income stream other than social security checks.
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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2015, 08:42:58 am »
I do want to add by that "conservatives," I meant "RINOs" such as you and I are labeled by the far right in our party.  Social conservatives are likely embarrassed and mad at Jenner for saying he's a conservative Christian.  I hope they realize what a wonderful opportunity this is for the GOP to reach out to young voters here.  A PAC ad needs to be made, targeting large swing-state campuses such as Columbus, Ann Arbor, Bloomington, and State College, pointing out the reaction to Jenner by the left before and after he said he is a Republican.

I'm a social conservative who is neither embarrassed or mad at Jenner for saying anything! I WILL pray for him!
 
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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2015, 08:44:38 am »
In an interview with ABC's Diane Sawyer which aired Friday night, former track and field Olympian Bruce Jenner acknowledged for the first time that he was a transgender American.

Was the interview conducted 'live'?   I thought we 'decided' here the other day that nothing is live...it's all taped.

And yet, it was kept secret and not revealed until the airing..... :shrug:

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Offline aligncare

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2015, 08:48:56 am »
It's a mistake to align the realities of genetic variance to left or right politics.  One has nothing to do with the other; other than to highlight the ignorance within both political camps swirling around this biological/medical phenomenon.

For the individual going through this, politics has nothing at all to do with it.  To derive some sort of meaning from Jenner's politics is personally irrelevant to the problem he is having with his sexual identity.

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2015, 09:04:50 am »

I would suspect that it's a combination of the two: there may be tendencies (and most studies have pointed to developmental, as opposed to genetic, causes for those), but actions and experiences also shape how we respond to them.


And most 'studies' say the earth is burning up.   And studies once claimed that wine, butter, caffeine and marijuana were deadly.

And just what is 'developmental'?  Are they taking about parenting concepts?  The fact that an isolated experience by a toddler wasn't handled properly by the mother?

Bullsh*t.

It's entirely developmental alright.   In the womb.
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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2015, 09:17:17 am »
In an interview with ABC's Diane Sawyer which aired Friday night, former track and field Olympian Bruce Jenner acknowledged for the first time that he was a transgender American.

Was the interview conducted 'live'?   I thought we 'decided' here the other day that nothing is live...it's all taped.

And yet, it was kept secret and not revealed until the airing..... :shrug:

Even a "live" interview these days is tape delayed in some measure. Usually between ten and twenty seconds. That is done to stop inadvertent cursing by either the host or the guest from actually getting out on the air. That is the kind of thing the guy operating the board is trained to listen for anyway.
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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2015, 09:41:51 am »
Aren't the Kardashians the spawn of him? I think all of this is a publicity strunt.

Offline musiclady

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2015, 09:53:23 am »
Twitter went from loving Bruce's "courage" to hating him within seconds of his admission.

From what I've seen, Conservatives are more accepting of Transgenders than Liberals are of Transgenders.  Amazing!


Conservatives are pretty much more accepting of everyone than liberals are.

Somehow, when you live your life and fill it with hatred and division, you're a miserable and angry person.

That's the very definition of being liberal.

As for Jenner, I feel very sorry for him.  He's mixed up, and he does need our prayer.

There are clearly some who are biologically mixed at birth, but I'm still of the opinion (since there is no science to back either argument), that something traumatic happened to most homo and transsexuals in their childhood, and that none of them were 'born' that way.  There just aren't many examples of healthy heterosexual homes with involved fathers and mothers where this happens.  There's usually (always?) something missing with kids who aren't attracted to the opposite sex.

I know there are those here who disagree with that, but there's no actual science to back either of us up.  Just observation.....
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Offline EC

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2015, 10:09:15 am »
Aren't the Kardashians the spawn of him? I think all of this is a publicity strunt.

The Kardashians - no. He is their Dad in the active sense, not the biological sense. The Jenner girls are his.
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2015, 10:50:54 am »
A helpful summary:


9 Things You Should Know About Transgenderism
Joe Carter
Gospel Coalition
Jun 17, 2014 
Quote
Transgenderism has been a frequently discussed topic over the past few weeks. On May 30, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services review board ruled that Medicare can pay for the “reassignment” surgery sought by the transgendered. A few days later Time magazine's cover story on the “transgender tipping point” declared the social movement is “poised to challenge deeply held cultural beliefs.” And last week the Southern Baptist Convention, America's largest Protestant denomination, overwhelmingly passed a resolution titled “On Transgender Identity.” Since the topic will be coming up for some time to come, here are nine things you should know about transgenderism.

1. Transgenderism is an umbrella term for the state or condition of identifying or expressing a gender identity that does not match a person's physical/genetic sex. Transgender is independent of sexual orientation, and those who self-identify as transgender may consider themselves to be heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, pansexual, polysexual, or asexual. Approximately 700,000 individuals in the U.S. identify as transgender.

 2. Transgenderism differs from intersex, a variation in sex characteristics including chromosomes, gonads, or genitals that do not allow an individual to be distinctly identified as male or female. Intersex is a physical condition while transgender is a psychological condition. The vast majority of people with intersex conditions identify as male or female rather than transgender or transsexual. (The term “hermaphrodite” is now considered outdated, inaccurate, and offensive as a reference to people who are intersex.)

 3. The terms transgender, transsexual, and transvestite are not synonymous. Transsexual is a narrower term used to refer to people who identify as the opposite of their birth gender designation, regardless of whether they have undergone or intend to undergo hormone replacement therapy and/or sex reassignment surgery. A transvestite is a person who cross-dresses, or dresses in clothes of the opposite sex, though they may not identify with, or want to be the opposite gender. All transexuals are transgender, but transvestites do not necessarily fall into either of the other categories.

 4. The LGBTQIA community considers gender to be a trait that exists along a continuum. Transgenders can thus be bigender (move between feminine and masculine gender-typed behavior depending on context), trigender (shifting between male, female, and a third gender), pangender (all genders at once), genderqueer (a catchall for people who consider themselves any of the subsets of transgender, such as genderless, pangender, etc.).

 5. The term cisgender is used to refer to individuals who have a match between the gender they were assigned at birth, their bodies, and their personal identity. Cisgender is often used within the LGBTQIA community to refer to people who are not transgender.

 6. In the 1960s Johns Hopkins University became the first American medical center to offer “sex-reassignment surgery.” But they later stopped performing the procedure after a study on transgendered people in the 1970s. The study compared the outcomes of transgendered people who had the surgery with the outcomes of those who did not. Most of the surgically treated patients described themselves as “satisfied” by the results, but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn't have the surgery. As Dr. McHugh*, former psychiatrist in chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital, explains, “at Hopkins we stopped doing sex-reassignment surgery, since producing a “satisfied” but still troubled patient seemed an inadequate reason for surgically amputating normal organs.”

7. When children who reported transgender feelings were tracked without medical or surgical treatment at both Vanderbilt University and London's Portman Clinic, 70-80 percent of them spontaneously lost those feelings. Some 25 percent did have persisting feelings, notes Dr. McHugh, but what differentiates those individuals remains to be discerned. Despite such studies several states—including California, New Jersey and Massachusetts—have passed laws barring psychiatrists, even with parental permission, from striving to restore natural gender feelings to a transgender minor.

 8. A  2011 study at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden followed 324 people who had sex-reassignment surgery (191 male-to-females, 133 female-to-males) from 1973 to 2003. The overall rate of death was higher than expected, with suicide being the leading cause. Those who had the sex-change surgery were almost 20 times more likely to take their own lives than the non-transgender population. They were also more likely to seek in-house treatment for psychiatric conditions.

 9. At the heart of the problem is confusion over the nature of the transgendered, says McHugh. “'Sex change' is biologically impossible,” he adds. “People who undergo sex-reassignment surgery do not change from men to women or vice versa. Rather, they become feminized men or masculinized women. Claiming that this is civil-rights matter and encouraging surgical intervention is in reality to collaborate with and promote a mental disorder.”
* See also this WSJ article Dr. Paul McHugh wrote, "Transgender Surgery Isn't the Solution"
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 11:02:26 am by mountaineer »
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2015, 10:52:26 am »
It depends. Honestly, I don't really care what Bruce Jenner decides to do with his body. He's 65 flipping years old. But I have no interest in it, and as a Christian, my biggest concern is the agenda getting into the church. We are called to call out our own for sexual sins, even in the New Testament (see 1 Corinthians 5, which is eerily similar to Leviticus 18), but not so far as stoning them to death.

Outside of the church, what they do is their own business.

I have a question here, and I'm not being flippant.

I've been involved in many, many debates about religion and noticed one fairly consistent thing.

When Leviticus is brought into a debate one of things happen. If the book is used to point out how Christianity is violent and demands harsh punishments a la Islam for transgressions, Christians rebuke that by reminding us (correctly in my opinion) that Leviticus is part of the old law and that Jesus fulfilled it.

Other times, Christians will quote Leviticus in order to condemn homosexuality.

Why the apparent double standard.

P.S. Weird as this may seem, Jenner is NOT a homosexual.
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2015, 10:58:42 am »
And most 'studies' say the earth is burning up.   And studies once claimed that wine, butter, caffeine and marijuana were deadly.

And just what is 'developmental'?  Are they taking about parenting concepts?  The fact that an isolated experience by a toddler wasn't handled properly by the mother?

Bullsh*t.

It's entirely developmental alright.   In the womb.
I'm talking about in utero, hormonal differences, etc. Theoretically such issues could be reversible, but there hasn't been any real research into that yet, nor do I suspect there is the political wherewithal to pursue it at this point.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2015, 11:06:24 am »
It's a mistake to align the realities of genetic variance to left or right politics.  One has nothing to do with the other; other than to highlight the ignorance within both political camps swirling around this biological/medical phenomenon.

For the individual going through this, politics has nothing at all to do with it.  To derive some sort of meaning from Jenner's politics is personally irrelevant to the problem he is having with his sexual identity.

According to Jenner he's not having a problem, he's solving a problem he's had all his life.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 11:07:18 am by Luis Gonzalez »
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Online DCPatriot

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2015, 11:08:15 am »
I'm talking about in utero, hormonal differences, etc. Theoretically such issues could be reversible, but there hasn't been any real research into that yet, nor do I suspect there is the political wherewithal to pursue it at this point.

Thanks for that clarification, J. Myrle!   :beer:
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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2015, 11:09:33 am »
I have a question here, and I'm not being flippant.

I've been involved in many, many debates about religion and noticed one fairly consistent thing.

When Leviticus is brought into a debate one of things happen. If the book is used to point out how Christianity is violent and demands harsh punishments a la Islam for transgressions, Christians rebuke that by reminding us (correctly in my opinion) that Leviticus is part of the old law and that Jesus fulfilled it.

Other times, Christians will quote Leviticus in order to condemn homosexuality.

Why the apparent double standard.

P.S. Weird as this may seem, Jenner is NOT a homosexual.
That's a good question, which is part of the reason I cited Paul and 1 Corinthians in conjunction with it.

The fulfillment of the Laws of Moses was a fairly complicated thing. On certain issues, such as eating non-kosher meat and performing works on the Sabbath, Jesus was very liberal. Yet, on the sexual sins, Jesus's stand is just as much against it, if not moreso, than the laws of Moses (see Matthew 5:28, for one example). Where he differs is punishment: he does not condone stoning as punishment, but offers a chance to repent (John 7:53-8:11). It's interesting here that Leviticus gives two options for the punishment of sexual sins: getting “cut off from his people” (in chapter 18) or death by stoning (chapter 20). It's the former that Paul suggests for the sexual sinner in Corinth; he tells the Corinthians to not even eat with the sinner. The Apostles also agree that sexual immorailty is to be forbidden in the church (Acts 15:19). To be cut off and thrown out of the church still allows for the sinner to turn away from his (or her) misdeeds and seek reconciliation. But the underlying sin is, throughout the Old and New Testament, still considered sin, just as it was in Leviticus. That isn't the case with a lot of other sins, which were expressly targeted at those who had made the covenant with the Jewish people.

So the double standard goes all the way back to Christ Himself.
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Offline flowers

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2015, 11:14:55 am »
Bravo Foxtrot Delta
Thanks I knew Foxtrot was in it some how.


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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #47 on: April 25, 2015, 11:22:59 am »
How convenient, he's a transgender conservative Christian. Sounds like a contrived media agitation wedge.
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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #48 on: April 25, 2015, 11:25:24 am »
How convenient, he's a transgender conservative Christian. Sounds like a contrived media agitation wedge.

Geesh....what was I thinking?  You're probably right.

It explains Diane Sawyer's visible 'shock' at the statement.  It was probably known by ABC all the while.

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Offline flowers

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Re: Bruce Jenner comes out as a transgender conservative Republican
« Reply #49 on: April 25, 2015, 11:27:42 am »
I wish him well. I on the other hand don't think he is well. He thinks he is solving a problem?  What if it doesn't solve a thing for him mentally? Will he now date men?  Women?  I guess one has to watch the new TV show to find out?