Obama wants community college to be free

[mystery-ak]

http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/08/pf/college/obama-free-college/index.html?sr=fb010815obamacollegefree7pStoryLink

Obama wants community college to be free
By Katie Lobosco   @KatieLobosco January 8, 2015: 7:38 PM ET



NEW YORK (CNNMoney)
Your first two years, free.

Free education "for those willing to work for it."

That's what President Obama said he would like to see in an announcement the White House posted to Facebook and Vine on Thursday.
He's proposing to make the first two years of community college free.

"Everyone understands that education is the key to success for our kids in the 21st century, but what we also understand is that it's not just for kids. We also have to make sure that everyone has the opportunity to constantly train themselves for better jobs, better wages and better benefits," the president said.

But it would require both the federal government and the states to split the tab. States would have the option to participate.

continued

[ABX]

Nothing is free.

[andy58-in-nh]

Nothing is free.

Obama doesn't really mean "free", as you understand.

What he means by "free" is: largely paid for by someone else.

[aligncare]

I hope he doesn't run out of other people's money before he leaves office.

The man is a demagogue of the first-order.

[aligncare]

andy: 

[andy58-in-nh]

I hope he doesn't run out of other people's money before he leaves office.

The man is a dem0agogue of the first-order.

Tell you what: I kinda hope he does run out of other people's money.

Somewhere in Hell, Mussolini is grinning.

[Bigun]

Nothing is free.

To people like Obama free means not coming out of his own pocket!

[truth_seeker]

Community College was very,  very low cost when I attended over 40 yrs ago. Our district had two main campuses, and offered vocational, technical, university transfer curricula.

[jmyrlefuller]

Community college, already the most worthless of college educations.

Yeah, go ahead and make it "free" just like the public high schools. All it will do is keep pushing the credential glut higher and higher. Too many people with degrees means employers raise the bar to keep out the riff-raff—precisely the kinds of people who attend community colleges.

[Carling]

Community college, already the most worthless of college educations.

Yeah, go ahead and make it "free" just like the public high schools. All it will do is keep pushing the credential glut higher and higher. Too many people with degrees means employers raise the bar to keep out the riff-raff—precisely the kinds of people who attend community colleges.

I was going to post something similar.  High schoolers are dropping out at never-before-seen rates, and now this clown wants them to fail at college for free, too?

Investing in one's education makes it real to them.  Handing out degrees on other people's dime accomplishes nothing other than making those with degrees more angry and agitated when they can't get jobs.

[Atomic Cow]

He knows it will never pass Congress, but he wants the issue so the Democrats can demagogue it in 2016.

And community college isn't worthless.  I took a lot of my core curriculum classes at our community college and saved a lot of money doing it.  No need to take Business Math I & II or technical writing at a 4 year university and spend 3-4 times per credit out on them.

Our local community college also does a lot of professional training such as paramedic, LVN, RN, vet tech, HVAC, welding, electrician, plumbing, pharmacy tech, etc.  Those are jobs always in demand and many actually pay well.

[truth_seeker]

Community college, already the most worthless of college educations.

Yeah, go ahead and make it "free" just like the public high schools. All it will do is keep pushing the credential glut higher and higher. Too many people with degrees means employers raise the bar to keep out the riff-raff—precisely the kinds of people who attend community colleges.

Maybe CC is worthless where you are, but not in my district they are excellent.

The two campuses have programs in nursing, law enforcement, construction technology, petroleum technology, etc.

And there is a path for transfer to four year colleges. And the cost has been very low.

After the military I went back to CC to qualify for transfer to a four year college. At the same CC my brother took courses as part of a carpenter apprentice program, which served him well towards later becoming a superintendent.

When I was in college it was well known that students got better instruction in lower division coursework because that was the primary interest of their professors.

In four year colleges the professors go through the motions on lower division courses, while their interest is with the upper division and graduate level courses they teach.

I got a lot of good insight about college from a grandmother who earned a masters in biology and taught college (in NY), and from a mother with a four year chemistry degree. I went as far as graduate work in business and economics.

[Bigun]

Maybe CC is worthless where you are, but not in my district they are excellent.

The two campuses have programs in nursing, law enforcement, construction technology, petroleum technology, etc.

And there is a path for transfer to four year colleges. And the cost has been very low.

After the military I went back to CC to qualify for transfer to a four year college. At the same CC my brother took courses as part of a carpenter apprentice program, which served him well towards later becoming a superintendent.

When I was in college it was well known that students got better instruction in lower division coursework because that was the primary interest of their professors.

In four year colleges the professors go through the motions on lower division courses, while their interest is with the upper division and graduate level courses they teach.

I got a lot of good insight about college from a grandmother who earned a masters in biology and taught college (in NY), and from a mother with a four year chemistry degree. I went as far as graduate work in business and economics.

The community colleges where I live are turning out graduates with REAL practical skills that serve them well in the labor market! Many of them wind up making far more money than most of those with advanced degrees from "REAL" universities.

[Lando Lincoln]

The community colleges where I live are turning out graduates with REAL practical skills that serve them well in the labor market! Many of them wind up making far more money than most of those with advanced degrees from "REAL" universities.

I have a son who will complete his degree this coming year in Geological Engineering and Petroleum Sciences from the South Dakota School of Mines.  He started at our Community College which he will tell you was superb.  I, too, believe it is outstanding.   First-rate.

And, Obama will ruin it if he has his way.

[Bigun]

I have a son who will complete his degree this coming year in Geological Engineering and Petroleum Sciences from the South Dakota School of Mines.  He started at our Community College which he will tell you was superb.  I, too, believe it is outstanding.   First-rate.

And, Obama will ruin it if he has his way.

Your son will do very well! You have every right to be proud of him!

[aligncare]

The community colleges where I live are turning out graduates with REAL practical skills that serve them well in the labor market! Many of them wind up making far more money than most of those with advanced degrees from "REAL" universities.

I agree. One of the community colleges I attended in Los Altos, CA for my premed classes had the finest sciences department. The instruction I received well prepared me and enabled me to sail through the first year of med school.

[Lando Lincoln]

Your son will do very well! You have every right to be proud of him!

Thanks, man.  He is a rock star in Dad's eyes.  His twin is too!

[DCPatriot]

I have a son who will complete his degree this coming year in Geological Engineering and Petroleum Sciences from the South Dakota School of Mines.  He started at our Community College which he will tell you was superb.  I, too, believe it is outstanding.   First-rate.

And, Obama will ruin it if he has his way.

Congratulations on your son's graduation and degree.  A superb field in which to excel.

Free community college is simply a venue whereby they can continue to propagandize to student bodies.    Because we all know, when Uncle Sam writes the checks, they write the rules...the curriculum, etc..

[ABX]

He knows it will never pass Congress, but he wants the issue so the Democrats can demagogue it in 2016.

Considering he has no plan, only a 'vision', I smell misdirection. What does he not want us looking at or what is about to happen (college loan bubble perhaps?)

And community college isn't worthless.  I took a lot of my core curriculum classes at our community college and saved a lot of money doing it.  No need to take Business Math I & II or technical writing at a 4 year university and spend 3-4 times per credit out on them.

Our local community college also does a lot of professional training such as paramedic, LVN, RN, vet tech, HVAC, welding, electrician, plumbing, pharmacy tech, etc.  Those are jobs always in demand and many actually pay well.

All college value truly lays in the person studying and what they do with it. A community college can be very valuable to many. Nurses especially start off at a community college, get a good job, then can expand their career. Most nurses start or come from the community college system and let's be frank, often times they seem to know more than doctors. 

[mountaineer]

Community colleges can be excellent for preparing  folks for useful and rewarding occupations, but that still doesn't mean the taxpayers should be funding these kids' education. We already fund the operation of the schools.

The problem is that there are a lot of kids going to college - especially the four-year schools - who just aren't college material. Fully 50% of incoming freshmen at a state university near me require remediation in math and English because they weren't properly taught these subjects K-12. And why's that? Probably because of NCLB, among other things.

[Bigun]

Congratulations on your son's graduation and degree.  A superb field in which to excel.

Free community college is simply a venue whereby they can continue to propagandize to student bodies.    Because we all know, when Uncle Sam writes the checks, they write the rules...the curriculum, etc..

Absolutely right! 

[Lando Lincoln]

Because we all know, when Uncle Sam writes the checks, they write the rules...the curriculum, etc..

Indeed so... And who gets special grace privileges, allowances, acceptances... and by "virtue" of that - who doesn't.

[jmyrlefuller]

Maybe CC is worthless where you are, but not in my district they are excellent.

The two campuses have programs in nursing, law enforcement, construction technology, petroleum technology, etc.

And there is a path for transfer to four year colleges. And the cost has been very low.

There is a transfer path, but by the time you get there, the courses you take only cover half of your requirements had you spent those two years in a four-year college. Then you have to add another year in the four year college to make up for it, and the price advantage is lost.

[mystery-ak]

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/01/obama_proposes_free_community_college_education_with_no_way_to_fund_it.html

January 9, 2015
Obama proposes 'free' community college education with no way to fund it
By Rick Moran

President Obama us proposing that the federal government pay the tuition of 9 million community college students. As long as the students maintained a 2.5 grade average, the benefit would be available.

There.s only one small problem, according to the National Journal's Fawn Johnson; the president failed to say how he would pay for it.

    Without that crucial piece of the program, which would be available to students as long as they maintain a 2.5 grade-point average, the idea is little more than a pipe dream. It resembles Obama's proposal in 2013 for a universal pre-K program for 4-year-olds. To provide free public pre-K just for low-income families would cost $75 billion over 10 years. Early-education lobbyists are struggling to figure out how to persuade lawmakers to pony up for that small part of a larger proposal. (A cigarette tax is among the items they are bandying about.)

    When it comes to community colleges, the lobbyists haven't even gotten that far. Yet Obama is hoping to capitalize on a campaign begun in his first term to emphasize higher education for people who don't have easy access to four-year universities. Community colleges are increasingly becoming an affordable way for students to attain the first half of a bachelor's degree before transferring to a four-year university. College tuition and student debt have proven to be powerful campaign tools, as Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., has illustrated in her effort to reduce student-loan interest rates.

    Obama, meanwhile, has been criticized by some in the higher-education community for his emphasis on community colleges over other types of schools that offer professional degrees, even as the Education Department has engaged in a six-year war with the for-profit college industry over its recruitment practices. This latest announcement from the White House won't smooth over any hard feelings.

    The White House proposal is modeled after programs in Tennessee and Chicago that are experimenting with ways to offer tuition assistance to students. In Tennessee, a free community college program is funded through a state lottery. Georgia also provides tuition assistance for its residents through a state lottery, but those grants aren't limited to community colleges. Georgia's lottery also funds universal pre-K, although many eligible families can't get into those schools because the money is limited.

The Obama proposal is for 75% of the funds to come from Washington with the other 25% paid by states. The total cost of the program would be north of $35 billion a year if all 50 states participated.

This proposal will go nowhere in Congress, thank God. The media will whine about denying "free" tuition to poor people without seeing the stupidity of not realizing that someone, somewhere has to pay for it. But this is typical Obama blather - a grandiose sounding plan with no concept of how much it will cost or how it will be paid for.

[Relic]

There is a transfer path, but by the time you get there, the courses you take only cover half of your requirements had you spent those two years in a four-year college. Then you have to add another year in the four year college to make up for it, and the price advantage is lost.

Your world is very different from mine.
I attended the C&T part of a local university, earned an AS, and then transferred 100% of my credits into the BS program. At the time, they called it a 2+2.

My son, a computer consultant who is doing well, attended a local tech school, 2 year program.

My daughter, attended the 2 year RN program of a local community college, and is now working as an RN.

My youngest son, just finished a 2 year program at a local community college, which transfers 100% to the university from which I graduated. He's currently a contract employee for a local company's help desk.

Community colleges are relatively inexpensive, no frills, quality education. The problem with making it free is you will have people attending not because they want and need to progress, but because they have nothing else to do. Additionally, if the government is using our money to pay, they will dictate what is taught. Meaning, more indoctrination. Community Colleges are relatively free of indoctrination. As I said, it's no frills, and pretty light on the propaganda, (not propaganda free, but light).

Two years at the local university is roughly $20k. Two years at the nearby community college is about $5k. If you desire a bachelor's degree, you can get it for $25k, (community college + university), or $40k, (university alone).

I'm a big fan of community colleges, and your disparaging remarks rankle me more than they should, I admit that. However, the loss is yours if you ignore a real resource.