Huckabee: GOP Needs To Fight Gay Marriage Even More Or I'm Leaving

[Bigun]

Well, see?  Howza bout that??

I was wrong assuming something about you....as you are about some of us.   

I don't really know anyone on this forum so all I can go by is appearances which surely can be deceiving.   

[MACVSOG68]

There were no ad hominems from me! I posted an opinion and you asked me a question about it which I answered honestly.  You must have had a reason for asking the question.   Conscience bothering you?

I did have a reason.  You challenged me personally as carrying Obama's water for him to the ends of the earth while calling myself a conservative.  The only pang of conscience I get is trying to actually engage in rational discussions with those who are completely under the control of irrational temperament.

[Bigun]

I did have a reason.  You challenged me personally as carrying Obama's water for him to the ends of the earth while calling myself a conservative.  The only pang of conscience I get is trying to actually engage in rational discussions with those who are completely under the control of irrational temperament.

Go back and read my post! It had not one name in it other than Obama's.  You could have just left it alone but chose not to  and as far as I know there wasn't anyone there holding a gun on you.

[MACVSOG68]

Go back and read my post! It had not one name in it other than Obama's.  You could have just left it alone but chose not to  and as far as I know there wasn't anyone there holding a gun on you.

I asked who you were referring to and you said me.  I've asked you several times to argue the point not the poster.  Try it some time.  It'll make ya feel good all over...  Or better yet, post a list of topics that are off limits to "alternative" viewpoints.   

[GourmetDan]

I asked who you were referring to and you said me.  I've asked you several times to argue the point not the poster.  Try it some time.  It'll make ya feel good all over...  Or better yet, post a list of topics that are off limits to "alternative" viewpoints.   

Aren't you now arguing the poster and not the point yourself?

[Carling]

Interesting that there is so much dysfunction in your family, but that is beside the point.

I'm willing to let your owns words, which are full of assumptions and flat-out nonsense, stand as a testament as to which of us is "dysfunctional."

[GourmetDan]

I'm willing to let your owns words, which are full of assumptions and flat-out nonsense, stand as a testament as to which of us is "dysfunctional."

As am I...

[Carling]

It never ceases to amaze me how many people there are who call themselves conservatives but are willing to carry water for Obama to the end of the earth!

It never ceases to amaze me how social conservatives want to ram their own morals down the throats of everybody.  You guys have already ruined the Tea Party, which started out as a fiscal movement, but sure enough was taken over by social conservatives to the point it is now a mockery.

What's next on the useless mission to undo what's already done?

[Carling]

As am I...

I'd like to see you call out my family as dysfunctional to my face.  That wouldn't end well for you.  Your personal beliefs aside, who are you to judge another man's family?  It seems like the height of arrogance from where I sit.

[GourmetDan]

I'd like to see you call out my family as dysfunctional to my face.  That wouldn't end well for you.  Your personal beliefs aside, who are you to judge another man's family?  It seems like the height of arrogance from where I sit.

You seem quite content to use your personal beliefs to judge and threaten me for pointing out truth that you yourself brought into the discussion.

Just where do you sit?

[Carling]

You seem quite content to use your personal beliefs to judge and threaten me for pointing out truth that you yourself brought into the discussion.

You brought my family into it.  If you can't see how that is a personal attack on me, as well as my family, then that's on you.  Stop playing the victim.  It's pathetic.  You throw out insults about another man's family from behind a keyboard.

It's cowardly.  Are you a coward, too?

[MACVSOG68]

Aren't you now arguing the poster and not the point yourself?

Huh?  By asking the poster to keep to the argument?   

[GourmetDan]

You brought my family into it.  If you can't see how that is a personal attack on me, as well as my family, then that's on you.  Stop playing the victim.  It's pathetic.

You brought your family into it as a rebuttal to my argument that gays prey on each other and are not as the media portray them.

My gay uncle and his partner of 25 years are the kindest and most funny people I know.  My girls adore them, unlike one creepy uncle who is married to a weird women who always talks about Disneyland.  My wife and I literally don't let that uncle be alone with the girls, and we see him maybe once every 2 years or so.

And I didn't call your family dysfunctional.  I said there is a lot of dysfunction in your family.  Well... compared to mine anyway.

Interesting that there is so much dysfunction in your family, but that is beside the point.

[GourmetDan]

Huh?  By asking the poster to keep to the argument?   

Haven't seen you refer to 'the argument' in several posts...

[Carling]

You brought your family into it as a rebuttal to my argument that gays prey on each other and are not as the media portray them.

Oh, OK.  So that means you're going to bash them.

And I didn't call your family dysfunctional.  I said there is a lot of dysfunction in your family.  Well... compared to mine anyway.

Man up and stand by what you said.  Don't play the Clintonian "what does is mean" game.  You're a bigot.  Embrace it.

[GourmetDan]

Oh, OK.  So that means you're going to bash them.

Man up and stand by what you said.  Don't play the Clintonian "what does is mean" game.  You're a bigot.  Embrace it.

I am standing by what I said and I am reproducing the posts to document that... not what you want me to have said...

[Carling]

I am standing by what I said and I am reproducing the posts to document that... not what you want me to have said...

You're playing semantics.  You insulted my family, and are now trying to say that you weren't insulting my family. 

I didn't mince words.  I think you're a bigot.  No mincing of words, and I don't respect you as a person. 

Be a man and stand by your own words about my family, and what the intent of those words was, instead of being coy.  As I said, it's cowardly, and yes, I'd call you a bigot to your face if you spouted off your nonsense to me in real life, instead of hiding behind a keyboard.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Go get you some reality...

Really enjoyed reading all the thoughtful commentary earlier in this thread.  Can't say I'm sorry it evolved into a hilarious and revealing pissing match. 

I believe homosexuality is abnormal to nature and immoral in the eyes of many faiths and their followers.  I believe a majority of Republicans believe this to be true.



I am not pure enough to judge another man's sins with regard to sex between consenting adults, but I don't believe I will ever consider it normal or acceptable.  I don't really care if the gays get to be legally married.  I'd rather be talking about Obamacare, jobs, and ISIS.

I like Mike Huckabee.  His show on Fox is an acquired taste.  I think Huckabee speaks to millions of evangelicals and they are important to the party.  Huckabee wants to be President and I'd vote for him with pride. The GOP would be smaller without him.

That being said Huckabee ain't going nowhere.  This is a play for donations and votes for 2016. Huckabee needs to win the primary before he can run against the rats.  If the angry right has too much money in their pockets they should send it to Huckabee instead of Club for Growth, Freedomworks, SCF, or the Tea Party.  It sucks that he has to do something so cynical, and destructive to the GOP as threatening to leave just to get some media coverage, but I'd do it too if I was in his shoes.  He will pay for it in the general election.

Politics is war by other means-Clausewitz Von Carl

[Luis Gonzalez]

Really enjoyed reading all the thoughtful commentary earlier in this thread.  Can't say I'm sorry it evolved into a hilarious and revealing pissing match. 

I believe homosexuality is abnormal to nature and immoral in the eyes of many faiths and their followers.  I believe a majority of Republicans believe this to be true.

Abnormal to nature meaning unnatural, meaning not existing in nature is not the best way to define homosexuality.

It has always existed, and it exists even in animals. It is simply a sexual behavior outside the cycle of procreation that runs against Darwin's theory of natural selection.

I don't know that being "against" homosexuality, beyond a personal belief, has any meaning at all.

It's like being "against" blue, or cumin, or hockey fans or those people that dress up like Spock and attend Comic-Con. It's an entirely personal position on a behavior which would lead you to not engage in that behavior. I "oppose" homosexuality only insofar as I don't have any desire to engage in homosexual activity and I don't find members of my own gender sexually attractive, but I don't for one minute believe that the feelings that homosexuals have for one, when in fact they do have feelings for one another, are anything less than very real and very deep to them.

I also understand that (just like in their heterosexual counterparts) many engage in whorish and promiscuous behavior.

As a nation, our attitude toward homosexuality and same-sex marriage has changed, and will continue to change, always moving toward a position where both will be accepted by more and more people, and nothing that a political Party will do can change that.

Huck knows this. He's not a stupid man.

He also knows that those in our society who hold on to the idea that the government should do something to stop the homos will send him lots and lots of money for a faux campaign that he knows he'll never win, or will watch a really insipid television show.

It's a living to Huck.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Abnormal to nature meaning unnatural, meaning not existing in nature is not the best way to define homosexuality.

It has always existed, and it exists even in animals. It is simply a sexual behavior outside the cycle of procreation that runs against Darwin's theory of natural selection.

I did not mean to imply homosexuality doesn't exist in nature.  Rape and murder has always existed, and exists even in animals.  Perhaps I could have just said I find it personally disgusting and wrong.

I don't know that being "against" homosexuality, beyond a personal belief, has any meaning at all.

It's like being "against" blue, or cumin, or hockey fans or those people that dress up like Spock and attend Comic-Con.

Or maybe it's like being against racists, or serial killers, or democrats.   

Racism exists.  Racists vote.  They want to believe they are normal.  Should I smile and tell them I like their shiny head and swastika tattoos?  That's just the way Darwin intended them to be?  No

It's an entirely personal position on a behavior which would lead you to not engage in that behavior. I "oppose" homosexuality only insofar as I don't have any desire to engage in homosexual activity and I don't find members of my own gender sexually attractive, but I don't for one minute believe that the feelings that homosexuals have for one, when in fact they do have feelings for one another, are anything less than very real and very deep to them.

I also understand that (just like in their heterosexual counterparts) many engage in whorish and promiscuous behavior.

Indisputably true.  Speaking as a man with a very large Interstitial Nuclei of the Anterior Hypothalamus I can attest gays hold no monopoly on depravity.

As a nation, our attitude toward homosexuality and same-sex marriage has changed, and will continue to change, always moving toward a position where both will be accepted by more and more people, and nothing that a political Party will do can change that.

That is not necessarily true.  Things were looking rosy for the Jews at the turn of the 20th century

http://www.jewishhistory.org.il/history.php?startyear=1900&endyear=1949
1901 RELIEF SOCIETY FOR GERMAN JEWS (Hilsvereinder Deutschen Juden) (Germany)
Was founded. It was designed to help Eastern European Jews immigrate to Germany.

Huck knows this. He's not a stupid man.

He's not a stupid man.  That is why he is running for President.  He could win.

He also knows that those in our society who hold on to the idea that the government should do something to stop the homos will send him lots and lots of money for a faux campaign that he knows he'll never win, or will watch a really insipid television show.

In 2004 Karl Rove ran a campaign that brought the evangelicals to volunteer, donate, and vote largely on the defense of marriage.  It was a winning strategy.

It's a living to Huck.

You may donate here http://www.huckpac.com/news

[musiclady]

It never ceases to amaze me how social conservatives want to ram their own morals down the throats of everybody.  You guys have already ruined the Tea Party, which started out as a fiscal movement, but sure enough was taken over by social conservatives to the point it is now a mockery.

What's next on the useless mission to undo what's already done?

It seems to me that this entire debate is that the left has rammed their own 'morals' (or lack thereof) down the throats of the majority of Americans who disagree with them.

The 'normalization' of homosexuality is a moral of the left that they have so successfully inculcated this country with that even people who are otherwise conservative are now arguing their cause.

It is the left at fault here.  Not those of us who stand for a morality once accepted by the vast majority of Americans.

Demonizing us won't win any elections, Carling.  Having the more liberal wing of the party despise us, just may be the cause of the Republican woes these days.

[musiclady]

I've found one consistency here in this forum, as well as others.  When confronted with uncomfortable facts, instead of simply walking away to another thread, some use their only weapon...cheap insults.  I understand it on the left, but continue to be amazed by those who constantly trumpet their conservative foundation, yet resort to such liberal tactics.

But I have to admit, it does work.  It ends the debate.

The debate has clearly not ended, MAC, so perhaps your observations on those who disagree with you, are incorrect.

[aligncare]

I do not believe homosexuality is a choice and I have no doubt that many if not most homosexuals would push the button (if one existed) that could make their sexual orientation "normal."  But it doesn't, and they can't.

[musiclady]

I do not believe homosexuality is a choice and I have no doubt that many if not most homosexuals would push the button (if one existed) that could make their sexual orientation "normal."  But it doesn't, and they can't.

Whether or not it is a choice is debatable.  My opinion is, that for at least some, it is, and for most it is a condition resulting from some form of psychological trauma, or at least some form of neglect (absentee father, abuse, etc.)...........though I am far from an expert, and I don't tend to trust 'experts' anyway.

My view (from my admittedly Biblical perspective) is that it is a wrong behavior, and that we all have wrong tendencies which we need to fight.  As a kid, I had a bad temper and a strong urge to lie and steal.  Those were my 'natural' behaviors.  But as I try to improve my behavior, I fight those natural urges to do things that are not acceptable, nor right.  I cannot say, "I was born this way," (though I was), and excuse wrong behavior.

There are many, many homosexuals who have that same perspective and try to get out of the homosexual lifestyle, which for the most part (their words, not mine) is very promiscuous.  Many, over the centuries, have fought their inclinations (no matter where they came from), because they knew they were wrong.  Some, through the grace of God, have been successful.

I don't believe for a minute the zeitgeist emanating from the left that our individual behaviors don't matter to society as a whole, and I see conservatives' arguing that 'it doesn't matter,' as a ramification of a very successful campaign by the left to convince people that, in the words of Cole Porter, "anything goes."

[Bigun]

Whether or not it is a choice is debatable.  My opinion is, that for at least some, it is, and for most it is a condition resulting from some form of psychological trauma, or at least some form of neglect (absentee father, abuse, etc.)...........though I am far from an expert, and I don't tend to trust 'experts' anyway.

My view (from my admittedly Biblical perspective) is that it is a wrong behavior, and that we all have wrong tendencies which we need to fight.  As a kid, I had a bad temper and a strong urge to lie and steal.  Those were my 'natural' behaviors.  But as I try to improve my behavior, I fight those natural urges to do things that are not acceptable, nor right.  I cannot say, "I was born this way," (though I was), and excuse wrong behavior.

There are many, many homosexuals who have that same perspective and try to get out of the homosexual lifestyle, which for the most part (their words, not mine) is very promiscuous.  Many, over the centuries, have fought their inclinations (no matter where they came from), because they knew they were wrong.  Some, through the grace of God, have been successful.

I don't believe for a minute the zeitgeist emanating from the left that our individual behaviors don't matter to society as a whole, and I see conservatives' arguing that 'it doesn't matter,' as a ramification of a very successful campaign by the left to convince people that, in the words of Cole Porter, "anything goes."

BRAVO!!!