Author Topic: I have another video I'd like your input on.  (Read 26076 times)

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Offline ABX

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #50 on: October 18, 2013, 09:26:59 pm »
I read your entire post, just so you know. This bit stuck out to me, though. How specifically can we make this not the case? How do we make it so that battle is a little less impossible for the little guy?

Look at what it takes to start a business. Is the system favorable to new business or hostile to it? Is the thought of starting a business, while obviously a lot of hard work, something one sees as a joy and an opportunity or burdensome and not worth the effort?

You can't blame the wealthy. You can't blame banks. A majority of the fault lays with government regulations.

Just imagine trying to do something in the healthcare industry and having to comply with this (and that's just Obamacare, add to that the tax code and any other industry specific laws and codes):


« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 09:28:33 pm by AbaraXas »

Liberal_Spy

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #51 on: October 18, 2013, 09:29:39 pm »
A majority of the fault lays with government regulations.



Which regulations are making it impossible for the poor to have a chance, how should we change them, and how does that then make it easier for them to thrive in our economy and overcome poverty?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 09:30:11 pm by Liberal_Spy »

Offline EC

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #52 on: October 18, 2013, 09:31:21 pm »
Which regulations are making it impossible for the poor to have a chance, how should we change them, and how does that then make it easier for them to thrive in our economy and overcome poverty?

Remove them.
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Liberal_Spy

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2013, 09:32:52 pm »
Remove them.

That only answers one of the three questions I asked.

Online Bigun

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2013, 09:38:33 pm »
I don't support or advocate communism, and I regularly school liberals that do.

They why were you an active supporter of OWS? 
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Offline EC

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2013, 09:40:38 pm »
It actually answers all three.

Now, unlike a lot of people on the right - I believe that environmental regulations are a thing. You can not be a conservative without being willing to conserve. But other than those, there should be zero regulations standing in the way of new business, new creativity and new inventiveness.
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Liberal_Spy

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2013, 09:42:25 pm »
They why were you an active supporter of OWS?

There may have been some people in the masses of OWS that supported communism, but that was nothing close to the message the movement was trying to give. There were members of the Tea Party demonstrating at OWS, and they certainly don't support communism.

Offline ABX

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #57 on: October 18, 2013, 09:43:15 pm »
Which regulations are making it impossible for the poor to have a chance, how should we change them, and how does that then make it easier for them to thrive in our economy and overcome poverty?

I thought I laid that out pretty clearly, but to give you a specific case (and one that is close to my family).

I have an aunt (on my wife's side) who was a RN in a small town. Although RNs generally make decent money, she would be in one of the lower brackets due to the size of town she was in. About a decade ago, she decided there was an opportunity to help serve the growing senior citizen population in the area so on her own, she started a home-health business to cater to senior citizens still living at home. This business was starting to grow rapidly and she was investing almost everything she made back into the business to help it grow (still driving a 1980s era Caddy and living in a sub $100K house). She was just at the point of being able to hire more people when Obamacare happened.

Now, she was required to pay out of pocket for software that costs well in excess of $30K (she probably paid herself less than this per year), hire lawyers and additional accountants to help complete all the regulatory filings.

She had to close shop and just retired instead.

I know several other home-health companies like hers, most independently run or with just a handful of employees that have closed shop because of this. Obamacare regulations made it impossible to continue their small business and it would be even worse if you tried to start a new one.

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Example #2- I wrote about this example recently here. Substitute teachers generally make very little and would also qualify as poor. Starting October 1st, they are no longer offered more than 29 hours per week. Many were using substitute teaching to barely get by and now they are moved from full time to part time or less (because of the 'look back' rules.)  I know this isn't starting a business but this is an example of how regulations keep people poor (or make them worse off). Here is the full story:
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,115779.0.html

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These aren't isolated cases. Multiply this a million times over and you'll see why the poor stay poor. They are regulated into remaining into poverty.

Liberal_Spy

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #58 on: October 18, 2013, 09:47:33 pm »
I thought I laid that out pretty clearly, but to give you a specific case (and one that is close to my family).

I have an aunt (on my wife's side) who was a RN in a small town. Although RNs generally make decent money, she would be in one of the lower brackets due to the size of town she was in. About a decade ago, she decided there was an opportunity to help serve the growing senior citizen population in the area so on her own, she started a home-health business to cater to senior citizens still living at home. This business was starting to grow rapidly and she was investing almost everything she made back into the business to help it grow (still driving a 1980s era Caddy and living in a sub $100K house). She was just at the point of being able to hire more people when Obamacare happened.

Now, she was required to pay out of pocket for software that costs well in excess of $30K (she probably paid herself less than this per year), hire lawyers and additional accountants to help complete all the regulatory filings.

She had to close shop and just retired instead.

I know several other home-health companies like hers, most independently run or with just a handful of employees that have closed shop because of this. Obamacare regulations made it impossible to continue their small business and it would be even worse if you tried to start a new one.

----------------------------------

Example #2- I wrote about this example recently here. Substitute teachers generally make very little and would also qualify as poor. Starting October 1st, they are no longer offered more than 29 hours per week. Many were using substitute teaching to barely get by and now they are moved from full time to part time or less (because of the 'look back' rules.)  I know this isn't starting a business but this is an example of how regulations keep people poor (or make them worse off). Here is the full story:
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,115779.0.html

----------------------------------

These aren't isolated cases. Multiply this a million times over and you'll see why the poor stay poor. They are regulated into remaining into poverty.

That sounds like a nice argument against Obamacare, but poverty was a huge problem before Obamacare. What was the problem before? What was causing the huge income inequality? If it is tied to regulations, which ones, and how are they keeping people poor? How will removing them help people overcome poverty and income inequality?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 09:50:31 pm by Liberal_Spy »

Offline ABX

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #59 on: October 18, 2013, 09:47:41 pm »
Which regulations are making it impossible for the poor to have a chance, how should we change them, and how does that then make it easier for them to thrive in our economy and overcome poverty?


...and before you say I didn't answer all three questions, it is because there are so many it would be a major task to even scratch the surface. Obamacare alone is up to 20,000 pages of regulations and growing. If we addressed one page every five minutes just in that law, it would take 66 hours straight, no breaks, to go through them (and that is just 5 minutes per, no serious analysis).

Take that into account when you realize a business has to comply with that. The rich can hire an army of accountants and lawyers to wade through it. Someone poor trying to climb out can't.

Online Bigun

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #60 on: October 18, 2013, 09:49:37 pm »


You can't blame the wealthy. You can't blame banks. A majority of the fault lays with government regulations.

Just imagine trying to do something in the healthcare industry and having to comply with this (and that's just Obamacare, add to that the tax code and any other industry specific laws and codes):

 :amen:

And the TRUTH is that most of this over regulation is bought and paid for in order to PROTECT AGAINST free markets and competition from the little guy! The whole idea is to make complying with all of that so expensive and cumbersome that only a very few have the wherewithal to comply and thus even get on the playing field!






















"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Liberal_Spy

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #61 on: October 18, 2013, 09:53:04 pm »

...and before you say I didn't answer all three questions, it is because there are so many it would be a major task to even scratch the surface. Obamacare alone is up to 20,000 pages of regulations and growing. If we addressed one page every five minutes just in that law, it would take 66 hours straight, no breaks, to go through them (and that is just 5 minutes per, no serious analysis).

Take that into account when you realize a business has to comply with that. The rich can hire an army of accountants and lawyers to wade through it. Someone poor trying to climb out can't.

Again, that sounds like a good argument against Obamacare, but Obamacare is new, and poverty has been an increasing problem for a long time. What was driving income inequality before that? If it was regulations again, which ones, and how are they causing poverty? How does removing them help reduce poverty? I also want to add that I am not trying to make the case for regulations. I am just trying to figure out how all of this results in poverty rates going down and income inequality improving.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 09:53:46 pm by Liberal_Spy »

Offline ABX

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #62 on: October 18, 2013, 09:59:10 pm »
That sounds like a nice argument against Obamacare, but poverty was a huge problem before Obamacare. What was the problem before? What was causing the huge income equality? If it is tied to regulations, which ones, and how are they keeping people poor? How will removing them help people overcome poverty?

Obamacare is just the example I used but you can look at any block of regulations and see the difficulty. It is becoming more and more and more difficult because of it but it isn't a new problem.

There will always be poor. There will always be income inequality. That is simple economics. Even in the Soviet Union's hey day when they claimed everyone was equal, you had a vast majority of people in conditions we could consider abject poverty (but they were all equal, woo hoo), but then you had the ruling class party members who, while on paper 'earned' the same thing, lived in luxury.

A simple answer to how, in my mind, is to create a system and elect those in power whose attitude is to create as much economic freedom as possible so people have the opportunity, if they choose it, to fight for their goals. We should be electing people not 'from the government and here to help' (which gets us the regulations we have been talking about) but those who have a passion to get government out of people's way.  Let the American spirit soar.

-------------------------

Side note: Did you know that before LBJ enacted the "Great Society", African Americans had some of the fastest rising incomes in the country, they were starting businesses faster than any other group, they had some of the most stable family demographics, and were on track to be a wealthy demographic?  After the "Great Society" (war on poverty), all of that collapsed. It wasn't until years after his death, when his White House tapes were released, the evilness of his attitude was revealed. He didn't want to help defeat poverty (if he did nothing, the African American community was defeating poverty on its own). Instead, he said he wanted to "Keep those ***** voting Democrat for 200 years".  (language redacted but it starts with an "N"- his words).


Offline GourmetDan

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #63 on: October 18, 2013, 10:03:30 pm »
There will always be poor. There will always be income inequality. That is simple economics. Even in the Soviet Union's hey day when they claimed everyone was equal, you had a vast majority of people in conditions we could consider abject poverty (but they were all equal, woo hoo), but then you had the ruling class party members who, while on paper 'earned' the same thing, lived in luxury.

             


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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #64 on: October 18, 2013, 10:22:52 pm »


There will always be poor. There will always be income inequality. That is simple economics. Even in the Soviet Union's hey day when they claimed everyone was equal, you had a vast majority of people in conditions we could consider abject poverty (but they were all equal, woo hoo), but then you had the ruling class party members who, while on paper 'earned' the same thing, lived in luxury.



Point taken, but my point is it is getting worse. Income equality is still getting worse, more people are sinking below the poverty line, and the rich are still getting richer. It shouldn't be as bad as it is.

Offline ABX

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #65 on: October 18, 2013, 10:25:34 pm »
Point taken, but my point is it is getting worse. Income equality is still getting worse, more people are sinking below the poverty line, and the rich are still getting richer. It shouldn't be as bad as it is.

I disagree that it is getting worse and I posted several articles up thread that dispute this fact. Those just address recent US history, but if you look at the greater history of world civilization, it is probably better now than at any other time prior.

Offline massadvj

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #66 on: October 18, 2013, 11:12:59 pm »
Point taken, but my point is it is getting worse. Income equality is still getting worse, more people are sinking below the poverty line, and the rich are still getting richer. It shouldn't be as bad as it is.

Uh huh.  And have these conditions improved under the messiah Barack Obama, or have they gotten worse?  If the types of policies being pursued by Obama (and, admittedly, GWB before him) are making things worse, then that should give you a clue as to what kinds of policies might make things better.  But no.  Most liberals are deluded and arrogant enough to think that things are getting worse because Obama is not liberal ENOUGH.  That's how wedded they are to their ideology, and that's what makes them dangerous and evil.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 11:33:04 pm by massadvj »

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #67 on: October 18, 2013, 11:21:57 pm »
Weeded....wedded....let's call the whole thing off.

Offline massadvj

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #68 on: October 18, 2013, 11:33:57 pm »
Weeded....wedded....let's call the whole thing off.

Now that I fixed it no one will know what this post means.

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #69 on: October 18, 2013, 11:45:15 pm »
Now that I fixed it no one will know what this post means.

Kudos to you professor.  Please continue your good works -- for the little guy.

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #70 on: October 18, 2013, 11:52:40 pm »
Uh huh.  And have these conditions improved under the messiah Barack Obama, or have they gotten worse?

They've gotten worse because all of our politicians answer to the same masters.

Offline happyg

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #71 on: October 19, 2013, 12:14:42 am »
Interesting thread. Massadvj, too bad you don't have an online course. I would take it. I know little about economics and never took any class associated it with it, so reckon I'm an uneducated bumbkin, in that I only got an AAS in Human Service. I did work all my life, so picked up things here and there, enough to steer me towards capitalism.

In reference to the graph posted by Liberal, I wasn't impressed, because wealth and poverty weren't presented in dollars and cents, making it worthless. And, what does the poverty level even mean? Because the poor don't have a lot of cash to throw around, doesn't mean they have no assets, like cell phones, televisions, computers and cars. And also, most get free or reduced utilities and house payments. How do socialists define poverty?

 Perhaps the greed isn't coming from the top, but at the bottom, because, even though the poor have all the necessities without the effort, they demand more because those at the top have it. What if those at the top of the scale had half or less than what they have. Would the poor want part of that, or would they consider it fair? In either case, it is jealousy more than need that drives socialism.

Back in 2009, all the kids in New York were given $200 for school supplies. Instead, they bought electronics, and other non essential items, and the teachers were left to fill in the gaps. $175 million spent down the drain!  NYC costs $20K per student for 800K children, but grades aren't improving. One excuse for the expense was high poverty demands more needs. But then, the government turns around and says the poor school districts don't have the money. Which is true?

We can give the non working people twice the money they receive now, and their lifestyles would not change. We would see even more gold teeth, tattoos, manicured nails and expensive shoes. People need to work  and earn money to have respect for it. Until that is instilled in welfare recipients, then poverty will never be reduced, if there even was such a thing in the first place.

And, as much as these non workers complain, as well as those who support them, those who are really hurt are the actual poor, through no fault of their own. Where are their voices? I imagine they appreciate  whatever help they can.

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #72 on: October 19, 2013, 12:18:40 am »
Happyg:

As posted earlier, there is an online course you can peruse and study provided by Hillsdale College.  Hillsdale is a conservative liberal arts school which emphasizes the Constitution and the precepts put forth by our founders as its curricula foundation.

No offense to anyone.  Suggestion only.

Offline happyg

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #73 on: October 19, 2013, 12:29:09 am »
Happyg:

As posted earlier, there is an online course you can peruse and study provided by Hillsdale College.  Hillsdale is a conservative liberal arts school which emphasizes the Constitution and the precepts put forth by our founders as its curricula foundation.

No offense to anyone.  Suggestion only.

Thanks! My dad was a follower of Hillsdale, and sent me brochures all the time. I will definitely check it out.

Offline ABX

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Re: I have another video I'd like your input on.
« Reply #74 on: October 19, 2013, 12:33:58 am »
Uh huh.  And have these conditions improved under the messiah Barack Obama, or have they gotten worse?  If the types of policies being pursued by Obama (and, admittedly, GWB before him) are making things worse, then that should give you a clue as to what kinds of policies might make things better.  But no.  Most liberals are deluded and arrogant enough to think that things are getting worse because Obama is not liberal ENOUGH.  That's how wedded they are to their ideology, and that's what makes them dangerous and evil.

That I won't argue about, I was thinking bigger picture. The trend is getting worse in the short term.