Nancy Pelosi banned from Catholic communion

[Cincinnatus]

YES

Praise God. At last.

September 26, 2013
 
Conservative Catholics -- both politically and religiously -- can now rejoice: due to her House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi's (D-Calif.) longstanding support for abortion, she must be denied Communion under the law of the Catholic Church, said Chief Justice Cardinal Raymond Burke, head of the highest court at the Vatican.

Burke referenced Canon 915, a part of Canon law which states those Catholics who obstinately persevere “in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to Holy Communion.”

As Cardinal Burke noted, “[Pelosi] is a person who obstinately, after repeated admonitions, persists in a grave sin--cooperating with the crime of procured abortion--and still professes to be a devout Catholic.”

This comes after a June press conference where Pelosi was asked if there was a difference between abortion at 26 weeks, and the house of horrors that was the Philadelphia abortion clinic of Dr. Kermit Gosnell.

Pelosi's response: “As a practicing and respectful Catholic, this is sacred ground to me when we talk about this. I don’t think it should have anything to do with politics, and that’s where you’re taking it and I’m not going there.”

Pelosi also has a long history of supporting abortion and and has a 100% rating by NARAL Pro-Choice America. And it probably also doesn't help that she was involved in the creation of Obamacare, and the NHS mandate compelling all religions to pay for contraception, abortions, and sterilization methods, whether the religion allows them or not.

Cardinal Burke said, “This is a prime example of what Blessed John Paul II referred to as the situation of Catholics who have divorced their faith from their public life and therefore are not serving their brothers and sisters in the way that they must--in safeguarding and promoting the life of the innocent and defenseless unborn, in safeguarding and promoting the integrity of marriage and the family."

The cardinal continued: “To say that these are simply questions of Catholic faith which have no part in politics is just false and wrong. I fear for Congresswoman Pelosi if she does not come to understand how gravely in error she is.”

http://www.examiner.com/article/nancy-pelosi-banned-from-catholic-communion

[sinkspur]

Nope.

Raymond Burke is not the Pope.  He is the head of the Roman Rota, the Court of final appeal for Marriage Annulments.  His jurisdiction extends to extraordinary appeals of annulments and any other cases appealed to the Rota.

He has NO AUTHORITY to tell any bishop of any diocese that he must deny the Eucharist to anybody.  Bishops are autonomous in their dioceses and are free to exercise discretion in matters of church discipline.

Raymond Burke was kicked upstairs from St. Louis because his priests hated him and he had a difficult time dealing with the faithful. He is exactly where he needs to be:  deciding issues of church law, but essentially harmless in matters of actual administration.

The only bishops who have any jurisdiction over Pelosi are her own Archbishop, Salvatore Cordileone, and Cardinal Donald Wuerl of Washington.  And, to date, neither of them have deemed her unworthy to approach the Eucharist.

Raymond Burke is relegated to insignificance in a Curial office and is simply attempting to remain relevant.

[DCPatriot]

Guarantee you that we're going to be seeing a YouTube video of her being denied Holy Communion.

She's not the type to accept the ruling and stay in her seat.

[mystery-ak]

Raymond Burke is not the Pope

It sounds like he is speaking for the Pope

[sinkspur]

It sounds like he is speaking for the Pope

He is not.  Pope Benedict XVI actually gave Pelosi Communion in New York when he visited in 2008.  John Kerry too.

[Rapunzel]

He is not.  Pope Benedict XVI actually gave Pelosi Communion in New York when he visited in 2008.  John Kerry too.

Umm,  we have a new Pope now.

[sinkspur]

Guarantee you that we're going to be seeing a YouTube video of her being denied Holy Communion.

She's not the type to accept the ruling and stay in her seat.

Don't bet on it.  This is not a "ruling."  It's the opinion of an archconservative Cardinal who was fired from his job as Archbishop of St. Louis and relegated to a non-administrative job in the Vatican.

[sinkspur]

Umm,  we have a new Pope now.

And you think Pope Francis who, just last week, said the Church should move away from an inordinate focus on abortion, contraception, and homosexuality is going to speak through a nonentity like Raymond Burke?

This Pope is the last person who's going to use Christ's Body and Blood as a weapon.

[mystery-ak]

He is not.  Pope Benedict XVI actually gave Pelosi Communion in New York when he visited in 2008.  John Kerry too.

I know I remember that I was hoping that Benedict was senile and didn't know who they were....I pray Francis follows through..he has said as much about people like Pelosi receiving communion

[sinkspur]

I know I remember that I was hoping that Benedict was senile and didn't know who they were....I pray Francis follows through..he has said as much about people like Pelosi receiving communion

Denying the Eucharist is a serious matter, which is why most bishops don't do it.  It's a matter for the conscience of the individual.  Singling someone out for humiliation, rather than dealing with them offline, is not something I can imagine Jesus doing.

[Cincinnatus]

ROLFLMAO.

It's the opinion of an archconservative Cardinal who was fired from his job as Archbishop of St. Louis and relegated to a non-administrative job in the Vatican

He just cannot post without some kind of personal attack.

He just can't.

[sinkspur]

Archconservative is not an attack.  It is an apt description.

You know nothing about Raymond Burke.  Google image him.  You'll find pictures of him dressed like an old woman in watered silk out to do her gardening.

Here ya go:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.courageouspriest.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Burke.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.courageouspriest.com/category/cardinal-raymond-burke&h=425&w=620&sz=68&tbnid=EMWL1kEqTZeWrM:&tbnh=89&tbnw=130&zoom=1&usg=__KyfUnanxLqsJN91A8MGt4RkVauY=&docid=Ew-ShM8lqxbkuM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=q_1EUuD_Acea2AXww4DwAw&ved=0CDQQ9QEwBA

[famousdayandyear]

Archconservative is not an attack.  It is an apt description.

You know nothing about Raymond Burke.  Google image him.  You'll find pictures of him dressed like an old woman in watered silk out to do her gardening.

Here ya go:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.courageouspriest.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Burke.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.courageouspriest.com/category/cardinal-raymond-burke&h=425&w=620&sz=68&tbnid=EMWL1kEqTZeWrM:&tbnh=89&tbnw=130&zoom=1&usg=__KyfUnanxLqsJN91A8MGt4RkVauY=&docid=Ew-ShM8lqxbkuM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=q_1EUuD_Acea2AXww4DwAw&ved=0CDQQ9QEwBA

Save your below-the-belt venom for Islam. Don't waste your time on Catholics. 

[sinkspur]

Save your below-the-belt venom for Islam. Don't waste your time on Catholics.

I am Catholic.  I'm correcting some misinformation. 

[famousdayandyear]

I am Catholic.  I'm correcting some misinformation. 

Amazing.  Who knew.

[sinkspur]

Amazing.  Who knew.

You would know if you read all my posts.  What other Catholic even knows what the Roman Rota is?

[famousdayandyear]

You would know if you read all my posts.  What other Catholic even knows what the Roman Rota is?

You may be right.  Obviously, I did not know from the manner in which you present yourself.  Word:  Posting while intoxicated can be dangerous.

[Cincinnatus]

Interesting, is it not, that Sinkspur sounds very pleased that proabortion "Catholic" Nancy Pelosi, who is so obviously in violation of Canon Law, may NOT be subjected to denial of communion? It is almost parallel to his advocacy of ObamaCare which has also been questioned on here.

And some like to tell me this guy is a Conservative.

[famousdayandyear]

Attention whoring cannot be fixed.

[sinkspur]

Interesting, is it not, that Sinkspur sounds very pleased that proabortion "Catholic" Nancy Pelosi, who is so obviously in violation of Canon Law, may NOT be subjected to denial of communion? It is almost parallel to his advocacy of ObamaCare which has also been questioned on here.

And some like to tell me this guy is a Conservative.

I haven't even mentioned Nancy Pelosi, Cindy.  I am correcting the misimpression that you left that Raymond Burke has any ecclesiastical jurisdiction over other bishops.  He has none.

[truth_seeker]

ROLFLMAO.

It's the opinion of an archconservative Cardinal who was fired from his job as Archbishop of St. Louis and relegated to a non-administrative job in the Vatican

He just cannot post without some kind of personal attack.

He just can't.

That is hardly an attack.

[Cincinnatus]

Wrong: That is hardly an attack.

That is exactly what it is, an attempt to marginalize the Cardinal by implying he is out of touch and reactionary. How many times have we seen that very same tactic used by Democrats and the Liberal MSM in regard to some Conservative Republican? Combine that with, ...who was fired from his job as Archbishop of St. Louis and relegated to a non-administrative job in the Vatican., and You know nothing about Raymond Burke.  Google image him.  You'll find pictures of him dressed like an old woman in watered silk out to do her gardening

That last, about being so dressed, is truly despicable, in addition to being completely irrelevant. You will note Sinskspur does not address the Cardinal's pronouncement, whether he has the authority to render it, nor if it is in accordance with Canon Law, not if it is the correct thing to do; but spends his entire time attacking the Cardinal personally in one way or another.

Personally attacking those with whom he disagrees is, as I said elsewhere, the sine qua non of his "contributions" on here; which is also why I said he adds nothing to the Forum. In fact, he detracts from it.

[sinkspur]

Wrong: That is hardly an attack.

That is exactly what it is, an attempt to marginalize the Cardinal by implying he is out of touch and reactionary. How many times have we seen that very same tactic used by Democrats and the Liberal MSM in regard to some Conservative Republican? Combine that with, ...who was fired from his job as Archbishop of St. Louis and relegated to a non-administrative job in the Vatican., and You know nothing about Raymond Burke.  Google image him.  You'll find pictures of him dressed like an old woman in watered silk out to do her gardening

That last, about being so dressed, is truly despicable, in addition to being completely irrelevant. You will note Sinskspur does not address the Cardinal's pronouncement, whether he has the authority to render it, nor if it is in accordance with Canon Law, not if it is the correct thing to do; but spends his entire time attacking the Cardinal personally in one way or another.

Personally attacking those with whom he disagrees is, as I said elsewhere, the sine qua non of his "contributions" on here; which is also why I said he adds nothing to the Forum. In fact, he detracts from it.

The Cardinal's pronouncement is his interpretation of Canon 915.  His interpretation has NO EFFECT on any other bishop or any other person, really. 

You didn't find that picture funny?  I thought it was hilarious.  Ecclesiastics haven't dressed like that in 60 years.

[GourmetDan]

Denying the Eucharist is a serious matter, which is why most bishops don't do it.  It's a matter for the conscience of the individual.  Singling someone out for humiliation, rather than dealing with them offline, is not something I can imagine Jesus doing.

If protecting the abortionist's right to murder the unborn and to profit from it isn't serious enough to deny the Eucharist... what is?

[Cincinnatus]

If protecting the abortionist's right to murder the unborn and to profit from it isn't serious enough to deny the Eucharist... what is?

That is the very point Sinkspur refuses to address preferring instead to call people "archconservative" and ridiculing how they are dressed in some picture as if that were relevant.

It isn't.

[GourmetDan]

If protecting the abortionist's right to murder the unborn and to profit from it isn't serious enough to deny the Eucharist... what is?

That is the very point Sinkspur refuses to address preferring instead to call people "archconservative" and ridiculing how they are dressed in some picture as if that were relevant.

It isn't.

Apparently, all of the concern is for Pelosi's individual conscience and none for the individual conscience of the priest.

I suppose that the concept of "...hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron" isn't considered applicable in Pelosi's case.

[famousdayandyear]

The Cardinal's pronouncement is his interpretation of Canon 915.  His interpretation has NO EFFECT on any other bishop or any other person, really. 

You didn't find that picture funny?  I thought it was hilarious.  Ecclesiastics haven't dressed like that in 60 years.

When I was active at FR, I refused to tolerate Catholic bashing of any form.  I will not tolerate your bashing of the Cardinal, especially the traditions of my church.  You are a fraud, a troll, a sock puppet pretending to be something in order to fling your vitriol around at will.

Give Ace of Spades a go with your personal attacks; they'll love your brand of disruption and either ignore you completely, or ban your ass.  Or go back to FR, they love their Catholic bashers over there. 

You are taking a perfectly decent forum and turning it into your personal porta-potty.
Because people here are decent enough to put up with tweener antics--I am not.

[sinkspur]

If protecting the abortionist's right to murder the unborn and to profit from it isn't serious enough to deny the Eucharist... what is?

It is up to the discretion of each bishop how to enforce Canon Law.  As of now, neither Pelosi's Archbishop in San Francisco, nor the Archbishop of Washington, DC, have determined that she is to be denied the Eucharist.

Take it up with them.

[Cincinnatus]

Take it up with them.

Prior to doing so must we check how they are dressed?

[sinkspur]

When I was active at FR, I refused to tolerate Catholic bashing of any form.  I will not tolerate your bashing of the Cardinal, especially the traditions of my church.  You are a fraud, a troll, a sock puppet pretending to be something in order to fling your vitriol around at will.

Give Ace of Spades a go with your personal attacks; they'll love your brand of disruption and either ignore you completely, or ban your ass.  Or go back to FR, they love their Catholic bashers over there. 

You are taking a perfectly decent forum and turning it into your personal porta-potty.
Because people here are decent enough to put up with tweener antics--I am not.

I'm a Catholic.  And I'm not "bashing" anybody. 

 Perhaps Cardinal Burke should take his sartorial hints from the new Pope, who dresses down as much as he possibly can.

All I'm doing is correcting the misimpression that one bishop can tell another bishop how to deal with matters of discretion in his diocese.

Thanks for the advice, but I'm not leaving.

[sinkspur]

Take it up with them.

Prior to doing so must we check how they are dressed?

You'll never catch either one of them in a galero.

[famousdayandyear]

I'm a Catholic.  And I'm not "bashing" anybody. 

 Perhaps Cardinal Burke should take his sartorial hints from the new Pope, who dresses down as much as he possibly can.

All I'm doing is correcting the misimpression that one bishop can tell another bishop how to deal with matters of discretion in his diocese.

Thanks for the advice, but I'm not leaving.

You are Catholic you tell us; try behaving like one.  Your focus on traditional dress which you find "hilarious" is telling.  You are a fraud of the very worse kind.  Yes of course you will stay.  You are safe here, because there's no one on this forum to challenge your lies and distractions from the real evil of Islam.  You can browbeat and denigrate to your heart's content.  Calling another Catholic a drunk in this forum stood unchallenged -- so apparently you have a free run to issue personal attacks at will.  Have at it, troll.

[Cincinnatus]

Thanks for the advice, but I'm not leaving.

Pity.

[sinkspur]

You are Catholic you tell us; try behaving like one.  Your focus on traditional dress which you find "hilarious" is telling.  You are a fraud of the very worse kind.  Yes of course you will stay.  You are safe here, because there's no one on this forum to challenge your lies and distractions from the real evil of Islam.  You can browbeat and denigrate to your heart's content.  Calling another Catholic a drunk in this forum stood unchallenged -- so apparently you have a free run to issue personal attacks at will.  Have at it, troll.

I'm no fan of Islam either.

I apologize if I offended you, but I called no one a "drunk."  It's common knowledge that lots of people drink when posting on the internet.  Sometimes, one can tell.

[famousdayandyear]

I'm no fan of Islam either.

I apologize if I offended you, but I called no one a "drunk."  It's common knowledge that lots of people drink when posting on the internet.  Sometimes, one can tell.

You know nothing about Islam as well as the Catholic virtues; your apologize is not accepted, because nothing about you is sincere.  You also know nothing about forgiveness, it's not in your working vocabulary.  Stick to running down conservatives; apparently it's what you do "best".  Stay away from my Church.

[sinkspur]

You know nothing about Islam as well as the Catholic virtues; your apologize is not accepted, because nothing about you is sincere.  You also know nothing about forgiveness, it's not in your working vocabulary.  Stick to running down conservatives; apparently it's what you do "best".  Stay away from my Church.

I know plenty about Islam and about Catholicism as well.  I will comment on Catholic issues as they come up.

I will leave it to others to decide who's the Christian on this post and who is not.

[Cincinnatus]

I will leave it to others to decide who's the Christian on this post and who is not.

Wrong again. The issue is who is anti-Catholic and who is not. The answer to that is obvious.

[GourmetDan]

It is up to the discretion of each bishop how to enforce Canon Law.  As of now, neither Pelosi's Archbishop in San Francisco, nor the Archbishop of Washington, DC, have determined that she is to be denied the Eucharist.

Take it up with them.

As a self-proclaimed Catholic, are you saying that if the bishop doesn't deny the Eucharist that it's OK to protect the abortionist's right to murder the unborn and to profit from it?

Is that how you think that Catholicism works?

[sinkspur]

I will leave it to others to decide who's the Christian on this post and who is not.

Wrong again. The issue is who is anti-Catholic and who is not. The answer to that is obvious.

So because I think Cardinal Burke dresses like an old lady, I'm anti-Catholic?  What a hoot!!!

[sinkspur]

As a self-proclaimed Catholic, are you saying that if the bishop doesn't deny the Eucharist that it's OK to protect the abortionist's right to murder the unborn and to profit from it?

Is that how you think that Catholicism works?

Nancy Pelosi knows what Catholic teaching is.  She chooses to ignore it; it's on her conscience.

No matter what bishops do or don't do, Catholics must condemn abortion from the moment of conception forward.

[GourmetDan]

Nancy Pelosi knows what Catholic teaching is.  She chooses to ignore it; it's on her conscience.

No matter what bishops do or don't do, Catholics must condemn abortion from the moment of conception forward.

So now you know Nancy Pelosi's mind?  Are you saying that a 'believer' can do anything they want and that the only appropriate discipline is whether it impinges on their conscience or not?  What about hypocritical liars whose conscience's have been seared as with a hot iron?  Are they in no danger of church discipline in an anything-goes scenario in your mind?

And apparently, it is still your position that denying the Eucharist is more serious than supporting the abortionist's right to murder the unborn and to profit from it? 

If a 'believer' can support murderers without suffering the consequences of church discipline, how is that distinguishable from just plain-old anything-goes unbelief? 

[Cincinnatus]

Corrected: So because I think Cardinal Burke dresses like an old lady, I'm anti-Catholic?  What a !hootred herring!!

[sinkspur]

So now you know Nancy Pelosi's mind?  Are you saying that a 'believer' can do anything they want and that the only appropriate discipline is whether it impinges on their conscience or not?  What about hypocritical liars whose conscience's have been seared as with a hot iron?  Are they in no danger of church discipline in an anything-goes scenario in your mind?

And apparently, it is still your position that denying the Eucharist is more serious than supporting the abortionist's right to murder the unborn and to profit from it? 

If a 'believer' can support murderers without suffering the consequences of church discipline, how is that distinguishable from just plain-old anything-goes unbelief?

The Catholic Church does not impose public discipline except in extraordinary circumstances.  Excommunication and interdict are rarely imposed as a punishment, although anyone who procures or assists in procuring an abortion is excommunicated latae sententiae (by that very act).  Said excommunication can be lifted by any priest in Reconciliation.

I'm in no position to to impose any sort of Church discipline on anybody.

If you want hellfire to rain down on Pelosi, contact her Archbishop, Salvatore Cordileone, in San Francisco.

[GourmetDan]

The Catholic Church does not impose public discipline except in extraordinary circumstances.  Excommunication and interdict are rarely imposed as a punishment, although anyone who procures or assists in procuring an abortion is excommunicated latae sententiae (by that very act).  Said excommunication can be lifted by any priest in Reconciliation.

Well no wonder Pelosi et all act like they do...

I'm in no position to to impose any sort of Church discipline on anybody.

LOL.  I don't think anyone thought that you did... but thanks for clearing that up.

If you want hellfire to rain down on Pelosi, contact her Archbishop, Salvatore Cordileone, in San Francisco.

Well that's an interesting projection on your part...