The Guardian view on the children of Gaza: when 17,000 die, it’s more than a mistake

[Cyber Liberty]

Your question honestly confuses me.  Why does the total number of dead children matter in a discussion about how to prevent more from being killed?  Is there an acceptable number of dead children?

"Only Palestinian Lives Matter" is not the flex you think it is.  What is the acceptable number of Israels killed at a music festival?  The Palestinians can control how many of their children die, just stop using them as human shields. 

[Right_in_Virginia]

Because the tunnels under the tent contain the enemy, their weapons, their ordnance. The tunnel complexes in Gaza are now no secret.

The tunnels have been well known for at least a decade.  Israelis near the Gaza border could hear them being built and expanded and started referring to them as the Hamas Metro.  (The name is still used today.)

The children, the hospitals, the schoolyards the rockets are launched from use the civilians as human shields. Beneath that lurk the combatants, the workshops that create the rockets, the magazines that house them.

I understand this, truly, I do.  What I don't understand is why the children aren't moved before Israel attacks the infrastructure beneath the surface. 

@Smokin Joe 

[Right_in_Virginia]

Hamas shoots rockets knowing full well that civilians will be in harms way.

I want Israel to be better than Hamas @Smokin Joe   And, I'd like to see Israel come through this war with its soul, reputation and stature in good shape.  It's looking unlikely they will --- world opinion is shifting so quickly and strongly against them I doubt even we will be enough to help them recover.

[Bigun]

Hamas uses children as shields, Israel shoots directly at the shields knowing who they are  ----  Who's the bigger monster @Bigun ?

Hamas by a mile! By ten miles in fact! The fact that you live in, or very near, that swamp if seriously screwing with your mind. @Right_in_Virginia

[Bigun]

I thought I had @Bigun   

Since at least the war in 2014, when Israel was forced to defend the number of Palestinian children killed, Israel has been telling the world those deaths are the fault of Hamas ... they keep storing weapons and hiding terrorists among children.  Of course they do, the world knows this.

Hamas started this years ago counting on Israel's humanity not to attack where children are, but Israel kept replying with "hold my beer".  Now Hamas uses the same strategy to goad Israel into showing the world the IDF has no problem killing children. 

Best trained, most moral, smartest military in the world, my a$$.

@roamer_1 writes in response to you @Right_in_Virginia ;"You have a very, very naive view of war. War is about killing people and breaking things. It is always, always messy. Always heart breaking. Always destructive and indiscriminate by its very nature. There is no high-fallutin clean way to success in war. There will be collateral damage. There will be death. That's what it's for."

I reply with; "Especially when you hide behind those you claim to love as these animals routinely do."

And this is what you come up with. 

[Cyber Liberty]

@roamer_1 writes in response to you @Right_in_Virginia ;"You have a very, very naive view of war. War is about killing people and breaking things. It is always, always messy. Always heart breaking. Always destructive and indiscriminate by its very nature. There is no high-fallutin clean way to success in war. There will be collateral damage. There will be death. That's what it's for."

I reply with; "Especially when you hide behind those you claim to love as these animals routinely do."

And this is what you come up with. 

Drawing a moral equivalence with users of children as human shields is astounding.  I can't get my head around that sort of thinking..

[txradioguy]

@roamer_1 writes in response to you @Right_in_Virginia ;"You have a very, very naive view of war. War is about killing people and breaking things. It is always, always messy. Always heart breaking. Always destructive and indiscriminate by its very nature. There is no high-fallutin clean way to success in war. There will be collateral damage. There will be death. That's what it's for."

I reply with; "Especially when you hide behind those you claim to love as these animals routinely do."

And this is what you come up with. 

I've noticed over the last year or so a disturbing trend some so called "conservatives" of developing a definite bigotry of Israel and Jews.  It's not a good look for them.

[txradioguy]

Drawing a moral equivalence with users of children as human shields is astounding.  I can't get my head around that sort of thinking..

Sounds like something the air heads from The Squad would say or do.

[Bigun]

Drawing a moral equivalence with users of children as human shields is astounding.  I can't get my head around that sort of thinking..

Everyone is a product of the environment they live in and @Right_in_Virginia no different. @Cyber Liberty  That's all I can come up with.

[cato potatoe]

I want Israel to be better than Hamas @Smokin Joe   And, I'd like to see Israel come through this war with its soul, reputation and stature in good shape.  It's looking unlikely they will --- world opinion is shifting so quickly and strongly against them I doubt even we will be enough to help them recover.

A charitable version of what happened is Hamas goaded the Israelis into an overreaction to October 7, resulting in a desperate situation for 2 million civilians they were unprepared to support.   But you're probably right and the rest of the world (to include Americans) is not going to see it that way.  Every day the news is full of stories like churches getting blown up, babies starving to death, arabs being shot to death while seeking food. 

[DefiantMassRINO]

This could all end if Hamas surrendered and returned the remaning hostages.

Israel had withdrawn from Gaza, and the Gazans chose the destruction of Israel and killing of Jews over a future with peace and prosperity.

Hamas and Iran are the aggressors.  They do not want peace with Israel.

Hamas forced the issue, and the Israeli's did not respond forcefully enough while they had the world's sympathy on their side.  I would have carpet bombed Gaza from north to south to herd the Gazans into UN refugee camps in Egypt, and annexed Gaza.

In the battle between Hamas and Israel, only one can remain standing at the end.

If the Gazans continue to hitch their wagons to Hamas, they will be destroyed alongside Hamas.  Hamas doesn't care about starving Gazan babies.  Destroying Israel is more important to Hamas than saving the lives of Gazans.

The only way Gazans have a future is to rid themselves of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and recognize Israel's right to exist in peace.

[cato potatoe]

This could all end if Hamas surrendered and returned the remaining hostages.

I keep reading this.  Is it plausible the Netanyahu government cannot secure their release some 22 months after the fact?  Are they going to keep repeating that line until tens of thousands of people die of malnutrition and Israel comes under international sanctions? 

[Cyber Liberty]

I keep reading this.  Is it plausible the Netanyahu government cannot secure their release some 22 months after the fact?  Are they going to keep repeating that line until tens of thousands of people die of malnutrition and Israel comes under international sanctions?

When did Netanyahu become in charge of Hamas?  I did not know he was making the decision to keep the hostages, I thought that was the Palestinians.  You are demonstrating the same soft-headed thinking that as been noted on this thread, wishing they think like normal people.

[txradioguy]

When did Netanyahu become in charge of Hamas?  I did not know he was making the decision to keep the hostages, I thought that was the Palestinians.  You are demonstrating the same soft-headed thinking that as been noted on this thread, wishing they think like normal people.

It's a clear case of antisemitism overriding normal logical thought.

[Cyber Liberty]

It's a clear case of antisemitism overriding normal logical thought.

I don't know if I would go so far as to call it "antisemitism," it could just be anti-Trumpism as displayed by this person in previous posts.

[txradioguy]

I don't know if I would go so far as to call it "antisemitism," it could just be anti-Trumpism as displayed by this person in previous posts.

Maybe. I can see with some that their TDS is causing this kind of sympathy for Hama and the mythical "Palestinians"...but I've seen a growing trend on social media of people that claim they are Trump supporters talking the same way about Israel...the IDF and Netanyahu.  They refer to anyone siding with Israel as being a) possessing dual citizenship...b) being bought and paid for by the Zionists or c) being more loyal to the Jews than their own country.

It's really a head scratcher why they have this weird mindset.

[DefiantMassRINO]

I keep reading this.  Is it plausible the Netanyahu government cannot secure their release some 22 months after the fact?  Are they going to keep repeating that line until tens of thousands of people die of malnutrition and Israel comes under international sanctions?

Resolving Hostage Crisis 101
Step 1: Captors release hostages.
Step 2: Kill 'em all if the hostages aren't relased.

The Israeli's let this drag out too long.  Netanyahu maybe stetching this out for his own political reasons. 

The prudent approach would have been to reduce every sqaure inch of Gaza to smoldering ash.  Western bleeding-heart liberals will weep for a starving baby.  But if there is only smoldering ash, they have nothing to weep for.

Hamas needs the West to see starving babies and desperate mothers on TV to put pressure on the Israeli's to let Hamas survive to launch future terror attacks against Israel.

Gazans need to choose between saving themselves versus saving Hamas.  Hamas embeds themselves among civilians to use them as human shields.  Hamas weaponizes decency, humanity, and charity to live off the land and to draw in new Western targets for attack and kidnapping.

The world will be a better place when Hamas has been wiped from the face of the earth.  The Gazans can choose to perish with Hamas or to flourish without them.

Who won't Hamas kidnap, rape, and murder?  They are Evil.



These are the same bastards that flew planes into buildings on 9/11/2001 and that killed and maimed spectators at the 2013 Boston Marathon.  Radical islamists will kill us all if given the chance.

At any point, the Gazans can choose to get off the Hamas merry-go-round of terror and suffering.

[Cyber Liberty]

Maybe. I can see with some that their TDS is causing this kind of sympathy for Hama and the mythical "Palestinians"...but I've seen a growing trend on social media of people that claim they are Trump supporters talking the same way about Israel...the IDF and Netanyahu.  They refer to anyone siding with Israel as being a) possessing dual citizenship...b) being bought and paid for by the Zionists or c) being more loyal to the Jews than their own country.

It's really a head scratcher why they have this weird mindset.

 

Both sides of the "Trump Wars" are making those claims.

[roamer_1]

I've noticed over the last year or so a disturbing trend some so called "conservatives" of developing a definite bigotry of Israel and Jews.  It's not a good look for them.

That is true.

[Bigun]

Maybe. I can see with some that their TDS is causing this kind of sympathy for Hama and the mythical "Palestinians"...but I've seen a growing trend on social media of people that claim they are Trump supporters talking the same way about Israel...the IDF and Netanyahu.  They refer to anyone siding with Israel as being a) possessing dual citizenship...b) being bought and paid for by the Zionists or c) being more loyal to the Jews than their own country.

It's really a head scratcher why they have this weird mindset.

Please see post #108 on this thread.

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=564547.msg3199065#msg3199065

[Cyber Liberty]

These are the same bastards that flew planes into buildings on 9/11/2001 and that killed and maimed spectators at the 2013 Boston Marathon.  Radical islamists will kill us all if given the chance.

If given the choice between converting us or simply killing us, they will choose "kill" every time.  Their unholy texts command it.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Israel had withdrawn from Gaza, and the Gazans chose the destruction of Israel and killing of Jews over a future with peace and prosperity.

If the Gazans continue to hitch their wagons to Hamas, they will be destroyed alongside Hamas.

You've the right to your own opinion @DefiantMassRINO not your own facts.  Hamas’ absolute rule of Gaza is not what the Palestinians voted for back in 2006.  And, since the current median age of Gazans is 18, half of Hamas’ subjects weren’t even born when the election took place.

In January 2006, Gaza held what turned out to be their last parliamentary elections. Hamas won a bare plurality of votes (44 percent to the more moderate Fatah party’s 41 percent) but, given the electoral system, a strong majority of seats (74 to 45).

Fighting broke out between the two political parties. When a unity government was finally formed in June 2007, Hamas broke the deal, started murdering Fatah members, and, in the end, took total control of the Gaza Strip. Those who weren’t killed fled to the West Bank, and the territories have remained split ever since.

This split is Netanyahu's dream come true and for the next 17 years he did everything in and around his power to make sure Hamas survived.

[DefiantMassRINO]

Gaza is already reaching Mogadishu/Somolia 1993 $h!thole proportions.

The Israeli's need an exit strategy ... a coalition of Arab nations to keep peace and rebuild.

There's nothing for Israel to gain by remaining in Gaza.  Hamas wants to erode international support for Israel as time fades the memory of October 7, 2023.

Let Gaza and the Gazans become someone else's problem ... until the next time Hamas/Gazans launch 'rockets of peace' at Israel.  Iran doesn't pay Hamas to sit on its ass and make peace.

[DefiantMassRINO]

You'd think with all the materiel in Gaza, that Gazan civilians could launch an insurgency against Hamas rule.  It will be better for Gazans to kill Hamas on their own if they don't want to die beside Hamas.

An insurgency against Hamas will demonstrate to the world that Gazans are not complicit with Hamas.  A failure of Gazans to rid themselves of Hamas implies continued complicity.

You've the right to your own opinion @DefiantMassRINO not your own facts.  Hamas’ absolute rule of Gaza is not what the Palestinians voted for back in 2006.  And, since the current median age of Gazans is 18, half of Hamas’ subjects weren’t even born when the election took place.

In January 2006, Gaza held what turned out to be their last parliamentary elections. Hamas won a bare plurality of votes (44 percent to the more moderate Fatah party’s 41 percent) but, given the electoral system, a strong majority of seats (74 to 45).

Fighting broke out between the two political parties. When a unity government was finally formed in June 2007, Hamas broke the deal, started murdering Fatah members, and, in the end, took total control of the Gaza Strip. Those who weren’t killed fled to the West Bank, and the territories have remained split ever since.

This split is Netanyahu's dream come true and for the next 17 years he did everything in and around his power to make sure Hamas survived.

[roamer_1]

I keep reading this.  Is it plausible the Netanyahu government cannot secure their release some 22 months after the fact?

Of course that's plausible. More like probable. You are nearly accusing Israel for not possessing magic.

Are they going to keep repeating that line until tens of thousands of people die of malnutrition and Israel comes under international sanctions?

Photographic evidence of food and aid rotting on the ground because Hamas wouldn't let anyone near it, and that's Israel's fault?

What bullshit!

[Right_in_Virginia]

Hamas by a mile! By ten miles in fact! The fact that you live in, or very near, that swamp if seriously screwing with your mind. @Right_in_Virginia

Thanks for your reply @Bigun --- I wasn't sure you would.   

I'll put you in the setting up the kill is worse than taking the kill category.  (You've lots of company)

[Right_in_Virginia]

You'd think with all the materiel in Gaza, that Gazan civilians could launch an insurgency against Hamas rule. 

What material is that?  @DefiantMassRINO

[DefiantMassRINO]

All those 'rockets of peace' and 'bullets of tolerance' that Hamas has stashed throughout Gaza ... in the 'tunnels of charity' and under hospitals and schools.

What material is that?  @DefiantMassRINO

[Cyber Liberty]

All those 'rockets of peace' and 'bullets of tolerance' that Hamas has stashed throughout Gaza ... in the 'tunnels of charity' and under hospitals and schools.

There will never be an insurgency against Hamas in Gaza.  Hamas already killed off anybody who would resist them.  They don't deal with the niceties of letting the opposition live, they just kill them.  Think of it as an advantage of being a death cult.

[Right_in_Virginia]

All those 'rockets of peace' and 'bullets of tolerance' that Hamas has stashed throughout Gaza ... in the 'tunnels of charity' and under hospitals and schools.

You are aware that the people of Gaza are living under two thumbs --- one belonging to Hamas the other to Israel, are you not? 

But, you raise an interesting point. @DefiantMassRINO

I used to wonder why Mossad and/or Shin Bet hadn't infiltrated Gaza and sparked an orange revolution, Mid-East style.  Then I would be reminded how important Hamas was to keeping Gaza and the West Bank from unifying and posing a viable threat of a two state solution ---- and Israel's inaction and Hamas' survival made sense.

[cato potatoe]

When did Netanyahu become in charge of Hamas?  I did not know he was making the decision to keep the hostages, I thought that was the Palestinians.  You are demonstrating the same soft-headed thinking that as been noted on this thread, wishing they think like normal people.

His government can negotiate the release of these hostages, just as it did for the others.  And it should.  There are those who say Netanyahu only wants this conflict to continue to keep himself out of prison, to facilitate the removal of arabs, to keep a couple of nuts on his right flank happy, and so on.  Are they right? 

[roamer_1]

Are they right?

No.

[Cyber Liberty]

His government can negotiate the release of these hostages, just as it did for the others.  And it should.  There are those who say Netanyahu only wants this conflict to continue to keep himself out of prison, to facilitate the removal of arabs, to keep a couple of nuts on his right flank happy, and so on.  Are they right?

Nope!  Hamas has made it clear they will not negotiate for release of all the hostages as long as Israel exists.  Stop dreaming of a rational Hamas.

[cato potatoe]

Of course that's plausible. More like probable. You are nearly accusing Israel for not possessing magic.

Photographic evidence of food and aid rotting on the ground because Hamas wouldn't let anyone near it, and that's Israel's fault?

What bullshit!

This might come as a surprise to you, but just because the government of Israel speaks, that doesn't make it anointed. 

Check out the interview with Cindy McCain who, consistent with spokespeople from other relief orgs, says Israel is making the distribution of food very difficult and disputes other claims made by their government.

[cato potatoe]

Nope!  Hamas has made it clear they will not negotiate for release of all the hostages as long as Israel exists.  Stop dreaming of a rational Hamas.

The information we have says Hamas is demanding a withdrawal from Gaza, not the dissolution of Israel. 

[Cyber Liberty]

The information we have says Hamas is demanding a withdrawal from Gaza, not the dissolution of Israel.

Their national charter calls for Israel's dissolution and cleansing of all Jews from the entire region we know as "Israel."  Get it through your head, these are not rational people.

[roamer_1]

This might come as a surprise to you, but just because the government of Israel speaks, that doesn't make it anointed. 

You'll not find me defending any government as 'anointed' until Shiloh come...

Check out the interview with Cindy McCain who, consistent with spokespeople from other relief orgs, says Israel is making the distribution of food very difficult and disputes other claims made by their government.

You're doing yourself no good dropping the name of a McCain't of any stripe as an authority of any kind. Anything coming out of a McCain't mouth is considered a damnable lie until proven otherwise.

[Cyber Liberty]

You'll not find me defending any government as 'anointed' until Shiloh come...

You're doing yourself no good dropping McCain't of any stripe as an authority of any kind. Anything coming out if a McCain't mouth is considered a damnable lie until proven otherwise.

Hear here!!