Author Topic: Trump threatens Harley-Davidson: If it moves operations overseas, 'they will be taxed like never bef  (Read 8755 times)

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Offline ABX

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Of course it is.

Have you ever read "The Administrator" by Philip Dru?

It was one of our former president's favorite books and one he modeled his presidency after. (or at least tried). 

There are a many correlations now.

Offline Applewood

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We don't have a president anymore.  We have the Godfather.

Offline INVAR

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Of course it is.

Ah yes, putting government guns to heads of business owners is now called "persuasion" and "Negotiating" by both Leftists and ForeverTrump®s.

Ism's of a kind march to the same mind.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline ABX

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Ah yes, putting government guns to heads of business owners is now called "persuasion" and "Negotiating" by both Leftists and ForeverTrump®s.

Ism's of a kind march to the same mind.

You will sell to only whom we tell you to and pay us protection or we'll break your windows.

Offline INVAR

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You will sell to only whom we tell you to and pay us protection or we'll break your windows.

And if you still won't do as we say, we will bankrupt you anyway right before we firebomb your company to ashes and possibly you find yourselves sleeping wit da fishes.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline DCPatriot

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I wouldn't take too seriously any statement people make here or any other internet forum. You never know a person's real personality from seeing internet posts. Often many will play the extreme of their role online while they be more tempered and balanced in real life. I'm sure in real life, @DCPatriot would only cut off half your head.  :smokin:

...with a butter knife.😏
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

The idea that somebody looked at a purple onion and called it a red onion really bothers me.   

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline ABX

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And if you still won't do as we say, we will bankrupt you anyway right before we firebomb your company to ashes and possibly you find yourselves sleeping wit da fishes.

Maybe there can be one day set aside to teach all these businesses a lesson. If they take their business elsewhere or buy foreign products, they get their windows broken. (better than putting them out of business through taxation).  It could be a whole event where all the MAGA crowd joins in. Everyone wear their red hats and break windows of known undesirable businesses who didn't comply. Call it a Day of Broken Glass or something catchy like that.

Offline INVAR

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Maybe there can be one day set aside to teach all these businesses a lesson. If they take their business elsewhere or buy foreign products, they get their windows broken. (better than putting them out of business through taxation).  It could be a whole event where all the MAGA crowd joins in. Everyone wear their red hats and break windows of known undesirable businesses who didn't comply. Call it a Day of Broken Glass or something catchy like that.

Stop it.

You're giving historical ignoramuses ideas.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline aligncare

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And if you still won't do as we say, we will bankrupt you anyway right before we firebomb your company to ashes and possibly you find yourselves sleeping wit da fishes.

Whoa, Paint. Yer working up a froth.

Offline DCPatriot

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Whoa, Paint. Yer working up a froth.

Meh...  "ridden hard and put away wet".   ^-^
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

The idea that somebody looked at a purple onion and called it a red onion really bothers me.   

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline thackney

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Quote
A Harley-Davidson should never be built in another country-never!

I little late to reality:

The war of words between President Trump and Harley-Davidson over its decision to shift some production to Europe conceals a simple truth: The famed American company has been expanding overseas for years.

Harley-Davison HOG, -0.60%  made its first foray outside the U.S. near the end of the Clinton administration in 1999 when it opened a plant in Brazil. The company later acquired a parts maker in Australia during the Bush years. It opened a plant in India in 2011 when Barack Obama was president. And shortly after Trump took office in 2017, Harley-Davidson said it would build a plant in Thailand.

Europe is the next frontier.


http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,322059.msg1683704/topicseen.html#new
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Offline Victoria33

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Pure Fascism.Do what government demands, or get punished by Dear Leader using Alphabets and the IRS to destroy you. Obama/Trump - same difference, different targets.   Like the National Socialist Workers versus the Communists.
@INVAR

Pure Dictator Trump.  Do what he demands, or get punished by Dictator Trump using Alphabets and the IRS to destroy you.  There, INVAR, fixed it for you.

Offline Victoria33

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I sure do not understand cheering on policies now that would have been ripped apart if Obama had suggested them.
@RoosGirl

It's Trump mass hypnosis - Trump takes people to their worst base instinct and they are stuck there accepting anything he says/does.

Offline RoosGirl

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@RoosGirl

It's Trump mass hypnosis - Trump takes people to their worst base instinct and they are stuck there accepting anything he says/does.

Meh, I don't really believe that mass hypnosis stuff.  And I don't think Trump is threatening to sick the IRS on Harley; it seems clear to me he's talking about European taxes. Once again the title of the article attempts to lead people down a path.  The objection for me is here is Trump, once again, calling out specific private companies. I don't like it when he does it with Amazon or Red Hen or Harley.

Offline Victoria33

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He has been using the power of his office to attack businesses left and right. To the point, it has resulted in billion dollar swings in stock value. A single tweet by Trump cost Amazon $6 Billion dollars. https://mashable.com/2017/08/16/donald-trump-amazon-tweet/ This is a bullying tactic that almost equates to a protection racket. It is virtual window breaking- you'll meet our demands or we'll break your windows (or worse). It is the high tech, government sponsored shake-down of private business.
One that the Commander in Chief of the United States Armed Forces has zero Constitutional authority over. Conservatives should be screaming at any government official doing this, even if that official has a R behind their name. We screamed when Obama used the power of his office to attack private businesses.
@AbaraXas

EXCELLENT POST

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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I sure do not understand cheering on policies now that would have been ripped apart if Obama had suggested them.
Where does the 'if' come from?

Do you recall this?  ! No longer available
“You will never understand bureaucracies until you understand that for bureaucrats procedure is everything and outcomes are nothing.” Thomas Sowell

Offline INVAR

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Where does the 'if' come from?

Do you recall this?  ! No longer available

Some of us do.  And what we find amazing is that the same people who went berserk over Obama's specific calling out and targeting of coal companies and electric companies for punitive government action are cheerleading when Trump does it to those companies HE dislikes and wants to make public examples of.

It's Not Fascism when WE DO IT!
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline ABX

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Meh, I don't really believe that mass hypnosis stuff.  And I don't think Trump is threatening to sick the IRS on Harley; it seems clear to me he's talking about European taxes. Once again the title of the article attempts to lead people down a path.  The objection for me is here is Trump, once again, calling out specific private companies. I don't like it when he does it with Amazon or Red Hen or Harley.

Three problems with this.

1. Europe isn't raising taxes on Harley, they are providing incentives.
2. Trump has been using tariffs to punish other companies.

...and...

3. He said in a tweet shortly below that one that this specifically was going to be a tax he hits them with if they moved- not a reference to EU taxes.


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1011574256117993472?s=19
« Last Edit: June 27, 2018, 09:13:31 am by AbaraXas »

Offline RoosGirl

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Where does the 'if' come from?

Do you recall this?  ! No longer available

The "if" comes from the specific instances of Trump using the office of POTUS to try to punish Amzon and Red Hen and now targetting  Harley.

Offline RoosGirl

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Three problems with this.

1. Europe isn't raising taxes on Harley, they are providing incentives.
2. Trump has been using tariffs to punish other companies.

...and...

3. He said in a tweet shortly below that one that this specifically was going to be a tax he hits them with if they moved- not a reference to EU taxes.


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1011574256117993472?s=19

No, EU is not raising taxes, but don't they already have a rather robust tax system?

The Tweet from yesterday morning is more clear that he will attempt to increase taxes on imports. The way it is worded does indeed sound like he is targeting Harley more specifically than I initially thought.

Offline Jazzhead

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The Tweet from yesterday morning is more clear that he will attempt to increase taxes on imports. The way it is worded does indeed sound like he is targeting Harley more specifically than I initially thought.

I think that what Trump means is that the U.S. will impose tariffs on EU vehicle imports to this country.   If Harley Davidson builds bikes in Europe and ships them here, they will be "taxed as never before".

HD is acting rationally, in response to tariffs, to build in Europe what it sells in Europe.   Now there are a lot more German-built cars sold in America than there are U.S.-built Harleys sold in Europe.    What Trump is trying to do with these sorts of tariffs is to get European carmakers to build here more of what they sell here.  Why is that such a bad idea?   
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Offline RoosGirl

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I think that what Trump means is that the U.S. will impose tariffs on EU vehicle imports to this country.   If Harley Davidson builds bikes in Europe and ships them here, they will be "taxed as never before".

HD is acting rationally, in response to tariffs, to build in Europe what it sells in Europe.   Now there are a lot more German-built cars sold in America than there are U.S.-built Harleys sold in Europe.    What Trump is trying to do with these sorts of tariffs is to get European carmakers to build here more of what they sell here.  Why is that such a bad idea?

I'm not going to try to guess what hidden meaning may or may not be in his words. Why would I assume anythi g other than what he wrote?

Quote
Harley must know that they won’t be able to sell back into U.S. without paying a big tax!

Offline Jazzhead

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American automakers, by and large,  build abroad what they sell abroad.   Japanese and Korean automakers have made, IMO, reasonable and substantial efforts to build here what they sell here.   But the E.U. automakers largely have not.   BMW builds a few SUV models here, and Volkswagen has a plant in Chattanooga.   But I don't think a single BMW automobile, or Audi of any kind, is built here, and Volkswagen builds in North America mostly in Mexico. 

If it takes tariffs for E.U. automakers to build here what they sell here, then so be it.  What's good for Harley Davidson is good for Mercedes and Volkswagen.   And there's a lot more jobs at stake building those vehicles here than in Harley building hawgs in Europe, which are largely novelties overseas.   
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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The "if" comes from the specific instances of Trump using the office of POTUS to try to punish Amzon and Red Hen and now targetting  Harley.
You said 'If" Obama had suggested them.

I give you a factual conversation where Obama stated uncategorically he would bankrupt a company using coal and actually succeeded in more than one instance.

Yet you try to equate that to some statements made by Trump wherein you say he will 'try' to punish certain companies.

There is a huge difference, yet your Trump hatred hallucinates you from seeing the difference in what actually transpired under Obama to something that may or may not happen under Trump.
“You will never understand bureaucracies until you understand that for bureaucrats procedure is everything and outcomes are nothing.” Thomas Sowell

Offline RoosGirl

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You said 'If" Obama had suggested them.

I give you a factual conversation where Obama stated uncategorically he would bankrupt a company using coal and actually succeeded in more than one instance.

Yet you try to equate that to some statements made by Trump wherein you say he will 'try' to punish certain companies.

There is a huge difference, yet your Trump hatred hallucinates you from seeing the difference in what actually transpired under Obama to something that may or may not happen under Trump.

Oh, I guess I have to wait to see if Trump will actually follow through on punishing one of those businesses before I comment on what he says.   *****rollingeyes*****

Offline roamer_1

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Oh, I guess I have to wait to see if Trump will actually follow through on punishing one of those businesses before I comment on what he says.   *****rollingeyes*****

Right. It's not like he has a history of being vindictive or anything...

Offline RoosGirl

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Right. It's not like he has a history of being vindictive or anything...

That it's okay for a POTUS to even talk about such a thing is beyond ridiculous to me.  I can't believe there's anyone that would question that.

Offline roamer_1

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That it's okay for a POTUS to even talk about such a thing is beyond ridiculous to me.  I can't believe there's anyone that would question that.

That's right...

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Oh, I guess I have to wait to see if Trump will actually follow through on punishing one of those businesses before I comment on what he says.   *****rollingeyes*****
Why not go ahead and hear what the Harley employees think about it?  They are a bit closer to the action than either you or me, and they do not share your own attitude on the imminent destruction of Harley Davidson.

Harley-Davidson Workers Praise Trump’s Tariffs: ‘He’s Just Trying to Save American Industry
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/06/26/harley-davidson-workers-praise-trumps-tariffs-hes-just-trying-to-save-american-industry/
“You will never understand bureaucracies until you understand that for bureaucrats procedure is everything and outcomes are nothing.” Thomas Sowell

Offline RoosGirl

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Why not go ahead and hear what the Harley employees think about it?  They are a bit closer to the action than either you or me, and they do not share your own attitude on the imminent destruction of Harley Davidson.

Harley-Davidson Workers Praise Trump’s Tariffs: ‘He’s Just Trying to Save American Industry
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/06/26/harley-davidson-workers-praise-trumps-tariffs-hes-just-trying-to-save-american-industry/

You don't get what I'm saying.  It doesn't matter what the employees think.  No POTUS should target, for any reason, a private business.  But Trump has a history of doing it; Amazon, Red Hen, and now Harley.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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You don't get what I'm saying.  It doesn't matter what the employees think.  No POTUS should target, for any reason, a private business.  But Trump has a history of doing it; Amazon, Red Hen, and now Harley.
You still exhibit your bigotry for Trump.

Of course it matters what those most affected say about it.  The fact that even the employees agree Trump is doing the right thing means all you are doing is dreaming up some wild charge of targeting.

Here's his tweet:
....When I had Harley-Davidson officials over to the White House, I chided them about tariffs in other countries, like India, being too high. Companies are now coming back to America. Harley must know that they won’t be able to sell back into U.S. without paying a big tax!

How is that what you say, " target, for any reason, a private business"?

Trump is on record for saying ANY business will receive a big tax by shipping products into the USA.  It is not unique to Harley.

 
“You will never understand bureaucracies until you understand that for bureaucrats procedure is everything and outcomes are nothing.” Thomas Sowell

Offline RoosGirl

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You still exhibit your bigotry for Trump.

Of course it matters what those most affected say about it.  The fact that even the employees agree Trump is doing the right thing means all you are doing is dreaming up some wild charge of targeting.

Here's his tweet:
....When I had Harley-Davidson officials over to the White House, I chided them about tariffs in other countries, like India, being too high. Companies are now coming back to America. Harley must know that they won’t be able to sell back into U.S. without paying a big tax!

How is that what you say, " target, for any reason, a private business"?

Trump is on record for saying ANY business will receive a big tax by shipping products into the USA.  It is not unique to Harley.

Right, so when I say "No POTUS" that's me showing bigotry against just Trump.  Substitute the words "call out" for "target", maybe it'll smooth your fur a bit.  If that doesn't work for you then we disagree.  Feel free to move along.

Offline aligncare

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You still exhibit your bigotry for Trump.

Of course it matters what those most affected say about it.  The fact that even the employees agree Trump is doing the right thing means all you are doing is dreaming up some wild charge of targeting.

Here's his tweet:
....When I had Harley-Davidson officials over to the White House, I chided them about tariffs in other countries, like India, being too high. Companies are now coming back to America. Harley must know that they won’t be able to sell back into U.S. without paying a big tax!

How is that what you say, " target, for any reason, a private business"?

Trump is on record for saying ANY business will receive a big tax by shipping products into the USA.  It is not unique to Harley.

@IsailedawayfromFR You are correct and sadly @RoosGirl is mistaken.

It’s difficult for some people to put aside their dislike for Donald Trump long enough to give him a fair hearing. Fortunately the success of his administration doesn’t hinge on RoosGirl’s opinion of Donald Trump.

Offline RoosGirl

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@IsailedawayfromFR You are correct and sadly @RoosGirl is mistaken.

It’s difficult for some people to put aside their dislike for Donald Trump long enough to give him a fair hearing. Fortunately the success of his administration doesn’t hinge on RoosGirl’s opinion of Donald Trump.

I suspect you have no idea what my opinion of Donald Trump is. It is difficult for some people to put aside their dislike for RoosGirl long enough to give her a fair hearing.

Offline ABX

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Offline kevindavis007

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IMO Carter gets a bum rap, the guy actually deregulated a large part of the transportation industry.


Carter did improve the airline industry.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Trump is on record for saying ANY business will receive a big tax by shipping products into the USA.  It is not unique to Harley.

That's how I read it, too.   Trump's not "targeting a private business".   But in the new world of "build here what you sell here",   an American vehicle manufacturer that builds abroad and ships here will be subject to a tariff, same as a German vehicle manufacturer.    The Europeans need to follow the example of the Japanese and even the Koreans,  who build mainstream models here, increasingly from American-sourced parts.

The Japanese and Koreans have largely approached the American market in good faith.  The Europeans have not (and increasingly, neither has the Big Three,  who've even started to import cars from China (Buick Endeavor).   If it takes tariffs to get automakers to build here, then so be it.     

I've bought cars from the Big Three all my life,  but when my son needed a new compact car, we got him a Hyundai.   The car was assembled here, with an American-built engine and an American-built transmission.   NO model from the Big Three offered all that.   
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Offline ABX

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Carter did improve the airline industry.

Except it was Gerald Ford who should get credit. He really started that ball rolling. Carter actually stalled the process from 76-78 until he was facing a midterm defeat and suddenly the Dems decided they needed to jump on that. Edward Kennedy joined the Republicans and that is what pushed it over.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-01-20/airline-deregulation-revisitedbusinessweek-business-news-stock-market-and-financial-advice

Of course, once they saw it was popular, the Dems took complete credit.

It is kind of like Civil Rights. It was Eisenhower who really got that ball moving and the Dems fought it until they saw they could use it to their advantage.

Offline kevindavis007

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Except it was Gerald Ford who should get credit. He really started that ball rolling. Carter actually stalled the process from 76-78 until he was facing a midterm defeat and suddenly the Dems decided they needed to jump on that. Edward Kennedy joined the Republicans and that is what pushed it over.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-01-20/airline-deregulation-revisitedbusinessweek-business-news-stock-market-and-financial-advice

Of course, once they saw it was popular, the Dems took complete credit.

It is kind of like Civil Rights. It was Eisenhower who really got that ball moving and the Dems fought it until they saw they could use it to their advantage.


Well Ford did us a big favor.  I bet you Trump would propose regulation of the Airline Industry and a lot of people here would support it.
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Well Ford did us a big favor.  I bet you Trump would propose regulation of the Airline Industry and a lot of people here would support it.

Yep. People here are dumb (except us of course). As shown by this thread.

Offline kevindavis007

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Yep. People here are dumb (except us of course). As shown by this thread.


Yep... I really don't want a economy based on what happened 60 years ago.
Join The Reagan Caucus: https://reagancaucus.org/ and the Eisenhower Caucus: https://EisenhowerCaucus.org

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