Author Topic: EV Sales Break Records Again 3rd Quarter 2024 10% market share within reach  (Read 6743 times)

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Offline catfish1957

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I wonder how much posting that crap pays?

I could use a lucrative part time job.

Never gave thought to him being a dim paid political operative.

Makes sense though....   Starts out with his "Concern Troll" routine claiming to be a moderate Republican, and then devolves into full frontal left wing douchebaggery.  Then takes a non-sequitur path of alternating talking points with faux outrage.  Honestly, I think he is entertaining with his flailing and desperation.   It's kind of like watching a fish who accidentally jumped out of the water. Except no one here wants to throw his ass back into the drink.
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Offline Hoodat

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Why is ag subsidized, why are chips subsidized, why is nearly everything subsidized in the US?

Because of liberal Democrats.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline banddag

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You do know that we oppose government subsidies for every US industry.

No doubt. But most here do not live in the real world of worldwide competition and other factors that make subsidies necessary
@Hoodat

Offline banddag

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Because of liberal Democrats.
You do know the largest ag states are red states and nearly 100% of Republican  House and senate members vote for it.


The chips act passed with bipartisan support.

As I said you do not live in the real world.

@Hoodat
« Last Edit: October 25, 2024, 01:23:56 pm by banddag »

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Why each quarter are EV sales breaking records?

1000 ev chargers are coming online every week in the US.  I live in a rural area and 1/4 the gas stations now have ev chargers. Hotels, banks, restaurants, malls, apartment complexes are installing them as it attracts business. Shop while your car is charging.

https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/investing-america-number-publicly-available-electric-vehicle-chargers-has-doubled#:~:text=Since%20the%20start%20of%20the,chargers%20being%20added%20each%20week.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-06/tesla-helped-spur-a-long-range-electric-vehicle-boom

The Long-Range EV Boom Has Arrived
Electric car options with more than 300 miles per charge have quintupled in the US since 2021. It’s pushing the country’s average battery range to record highs.

I could go on and on but your mind is alrewady made up due to partisanship and politics.

@IsailedawayfromFR
Easy to refute any value contribution by EVs by simply looking at recent financials of GM and Ford.  Have dragged both companies down immensely.
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Offline catfish1957

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Easy to refute any value contribution by EVs by simply looking at recent financials of GM and Ford.  Have dragged both companies down immensely.

Car dealers don't want to eat these EV's, and are getting marching orders to push them. 

Need to find inventory data, and really see which mode of vehicle is being prefered.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Smokin Joe

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You do know the ag indsutry has been subsidized for the last 80 years as well as nearly all indsutries in the US. Where did ingtell get the money to build the new chip planr inOhio. The $52 billion dollar chip act.

Ev's are the future. batteries are the future. We are subsidizinf these co's because China, Vietnam, S Korera is heavily subsidizing eheir own ev industry and if we do not it will put us behind.

@Smokin Joe
All humans eat or die. EVs are optional in some locales, and a non-starter in others.

They are no more the 'future' than the flying car, because there is a lot of the world they just will not work in.

Why is it fair that all fund transportation for a few? It isn't. And that's the salient difference between Ag subsidies and EV subsidies.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline banddag

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Easy to refute any value contribution by EVs by simply looking at recent financials of GM and Ford.  Have dragged both companies down immensely.

It is a new product for them-GM and Ford. of course the up front cost are going to outstrip profits. New factories, new battery plants, new assembly lines, research and development cost, labor cost, . Tesla went through the same curve when it first started out. I believe Tesla  did not make  a profit for the first  8 years.

Cox automotive:
According to new estimates from Kelley Blue Book, electric vehicle (EV) sales in the U.S. grew by 11% year over year in the third quarter and reached record highs for both volume and market share. According to the latest counts, an estimated 346,3091 EVs were sold in Q3 2024, a 5% increase from Q2.Oct 11, 2024


@IsailedawayfromFR
« Last Edit: October 25, 2024, 01:40:58 pm by banddag »

Offline jafo2010

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Quote
banddag...

Electric vehicle sales hit a new record in the U.S. in Q3, driven by attractive lease deals, financing offers and a growing appetite for affordable models among American car buyers. Despite all the political noise around EVs and negative headlines in financial papers, automakers are having a moment selling their battery-powered cars.

According to car trading and market insights firm Cox Automotive, automakers sold an estimated 346,309 EVs in the third quarter, a 5% increase from the second quarter. EVs accounted for 8.9% of the total auto sales—the highest ever on record—marking an increase from 7.8% during the same period last year.

"With improving infrastructure, far more choices, and excellent deals to be had, the team expects further growth in the months ahead," Cox Automotive analysts wrote. "A 10% share is well within reach.


...attractive lease deals...    hmmm, having been in the automotive business, if manufacturers are offering attractive lease deals, it is for but one reason, they were not selling those vehicles.  And then there is the consideration that when these cars come off lease, the manufacturers gather these cars and ship them to a foreign country to be sold for near new car prices.  This is NOT something to sing praises about.  Remove the federal subsidy of taxpayers dollars to motivate folks to buy these vehicles, and their sales/leases go away completely!

8.9% market share after all the years the federal government has been subsidizing with taxpayer dollars is NOT impressive.  I doubt market share ever rises above 15% unless the cost of EVs is competitive with gas powered vehicles.  And since they are considerably more expensive, don't hold your breath!!!

Offline Bigun

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...attractive lease deals...    hmmm, having been in the automotive business, if manufacturers are offering attractive lease deals, it is for but one reason, they were not selling those vehicles.  And then there is the consideration that when these cars come off lease, the manufacturers gather these cars and ship them to a foreign country to be sold for near new car prices.  This is NOT something to sing praises about.  Remove the federal subsidy of taxpayers dollars to motivate folks to buy these vehicles, and their sales/leases go away completely!

8.9% market share after all the years the federal government has been subsidizing with taxpayer dollars is NOT impressive.  I doubt market share ever rises above 15% unless the cost of EVs is competitive with gas powered vehicles.  And since they are considerably more expensive, don't hold your breath!!!

Anything to get them off of dealers floorplans!
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"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline Hoodat

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The chips act passed with bipartisan support.

As I said you do not live in the real world.

@Hoodat

The chips act passed with uniparty support.  As I said, you do not know your audience.  You do not understand human nature.  And you fail again and again to answer questions presented to you.
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Offline jafo2010

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Also, certain manufacturers are waking to the fact that EVs are NOT the answer, and they are backing off the manufacture of said vehicles.

I see EVs going away in the next 10-20 years.  Some other technology will develop to displace them.

Offline Hoodat

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No doubt. But most here do not live in the real world of worldwide competition and other factors that make subsidies necessary
@Hoodat

@banddag

Show me a single example of where subsidies are necessary.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Also, certain manufacturers are waking to the fact that EVs are NOT the answer, and they are backing off the manufacture of said vehicles.

I see EVs going away in the next 10-20 years.  Some other technology will develop to displace them.

And the American taxpayer will have poured untold billions down the drain just to satisfy the emotional needs of a bunch of dumb-ass liberals like @banddag who have zero economic sense.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline the OlLine Rebel

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You do know the ag indsutry has been subsidized for the last 80 years as well as nearly all indsutries in the US. Where did ingtell get the money to build the new chip planr inOhio. The $52 billion dollar chip act.

Ev's are the future. batteries are the future. We are subsidizinf these co's because China, Vietnam, S Korera is heavily subsidizing eheir own ev industry and if we do not it will put us behind.

@Smokin Joe

They are the FORCED future.  Reality, being free to choose, customers won't buy and MFRs won't build.  That's a poor background to base "success" on.  Who cares if we are "behind" in a product no one sane or experienced wants?

There is much more to these "EVs" (in the car fancy, we used to simply call them, "electric CARS", e.g. Baker Electric - "vehicle" includes silly things like bikes and scooters) than we think both as customer and as MFR or supplier of support.  There are so many impracticalities.

There is always the POSSIBILITY something may work out - but no one should be forced to do so from any angle, based on fairy-tale dreams.

TECHNOLOGICAL PROGRESS CANNOT BE LEGISLATED.  You can't simply wave a wand and "tada" - this solar panel, this electric car, this wind turbine - magically solves all problems!

More than a century ago, people commonly said pessimistically "it'll never work".  Now, people are far too optimistic including politicos, who say "OF COURSE IT WILL WORK - TOMORROW!"
Common sense is an uncommon virtue.

Offline the OlLine Rebel

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Also, certain manufacturers are waking to the fact that EVs are NOT the answer, and they are backing off the manufacture of said vehicles.

I see EVs going away in the next 10-20 years.  Some other technology will develop to displace them.

Do you remember self-driving cars?

Yes, 5 years ago they were coming everywhere!

Now, who talks about it?
Common sense is an uncommon virtue.

Offline jafo2010

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Actually, self driving cars are being developed, and projected to hit the market next year.

If you look at cars that have been made over the past few years, they have more and more features that enable the car to drive without the driver performing different activities.  I just got a Lexus that has more features than my 2018 Nissan Rogue for self driving.  Tesla is indicating they believe their vehicle will be ready by next year.

Offline Hoodat

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Elon Musk's SpaceX, Tesla get more government funding than ...

qz.com
https://qz.com › elon-musks-spacex-and-tesla-get-far-m...
Apr 13, 2023 — Meanwhile, SpaceX sought and is still seeking $885 million in government funding to support broadband access in rural communities.

@Hoodat

@banddag

For the umpteenth time, I oppose government subsidies.  I oppose giving SpaceX $885 in government my funding to support broadband access in rural communities.  Why do you keep bringing this up as an arguing point?  Each time you do it, you reveal to everyone here what a complete fool you are.  Why not actually listen to what others are telling you instead of keeping your mind closed and painting a picture of us purely from your own emotional slant - a picture that is not based in facts.

Again, you cannot support your targeted support of subsidies by arguing that 'you support subsidies too' when we on this thread do not.  It is a false premise.  It is a premise that has been pointed out to you on several occasions to be false.  It is a rather pathetic argument.  And your insistence to continue offering it even though you know it to be false makes you a liar.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Smokin Joe

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Anything to get them off of dealers floorplans!
Yep! Put something in there that will sell. Fewer than 1 in 1000 (0.1%) of vehicles registered in North Dakota are EVs. That should tell you how well they are suited to our uses.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline jafo2010

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Frankly, I am sick and tired of the federal government shelling out money for this and that, and largely paying off those loyal to whoever is in office.  Biden just distributed $28 billion in the last few weeks, paying off his buddies, some companies that did not exist one year ago receiving over $2 billion in federal funds.  How much of that money is earmarked to find its way back to the Biden Crime Family?  I'll bet hundreds of millions.

The entire Biden family should be indicted, convicted and publicly dispatched as traitors.

If Trump wins, and Musk is brought in to reduce government, I hope they cut the federal government by 60%!!!  Can be done easily!!!

Offline Hoodat

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Do you remember self-driving cars?

Yes, 5 years ago they were coming everywhere!

Now, who talks about it?

In the past, government has opposed self-driving cars.  But in the last three years or so, they have figured out that self-driving cars can be controlled.  They can easily be overridden from self-driving cars to government-driving (or not driving) cars.  So expect government subsidies in this endeavor as well.  Just as the new chips now used in EVs can easily be overridden by government hack.

Driven more than 500 miles in a week?  Car shuts down.  Heading to the polls to cast a vote for Trump on election day?  Car shuts down.  Except now, government can decide where your car goes.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Yep! Put something in there that will sell. Fewer than 1 in 1000 (0.1%) of vehicles registered in North Dakota are EVs. That should tell you how well they are suited to our uses.

But . . . but . . . but it makes a liberal feel good if he knows that North Dakotans are driving EVs just like people living in Ithaca.  They just don't give a damn about your feelings.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline banddag

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@banddag

Show me a single example of where subsidies are necessary.

The US ag industry. it is welll documented the benefits.

If there was a bumper crop year in say corn due to weather more planting etc, the price per bushel of corn plummets due to oversupply. The next year no one plants corn because it is too low per bushel to make  a profit whcih would then lead to a shortage because farmers would plant something else.

Subsidies in ag keeps food prices stable. w/o susidies one year milk would be 1.99 gallon and the next year 7.00 gallon. You would have wild swings in prices on a continual basis and food shortages. When corn per bushel is super low and farmers ca nnot make a profit the got pays them a subsidy to make up the difference.

It keeps smaller and mid range farmers in business.

Weather is another factor. Some years we have very poor crop yields due to droughts/too much rain. Many farmers would go under if not subsidized. It's usually feast or famine in the farming business. Our food supply is too important to  give you control over in your unicorn world.
This is taught in and accepted in every business class in the world.

BTW we  are subsidizing Israel every year to the tune of billions of dollars. Why is that subsidy necessary?
@Hoodat
« Last Edit: October 25, 2024, 03:32:56 pm by banddag »

Offline banddag

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  Who cares if we are "behind" in a product no one sane or experienced wants?


The entire world is going battery power electric. Look at every Stihl commercial. All battery [powered even the new zero turns. The world wants battery powered.  No more oil changes, gas going bad, carburators fouling up, no more pulling that stupid cord over and over again.

A friend owns 16 power equipment dealers in 7 states. 75% of all  yard tools sales are now battery
Have you seen the new Stihl commercial where the commercial lawn scapers are raving over the new battery powered blowers and weeders?

The point is every country in the world is subsidizing their own industry that we have to compete against. without subsidies our homegrown companies are at a disadvantange. The US steel indsutry was destroyed due to subsidized from countries like Japan, S. Korea. This is no longer 1776 where we did not have to worry about other countries 2500 miles away.
We are in a global economy and no country plays fair.

@the OlLine Rebel


« Last Edit: October 25, 2024, 04:11:28 pm by banddag »

Offline banddag

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@banddag

Show me a single example of where subsidies are necessary.

The Eu subsidizes Airbus. Airbus is for most part owned by the EU countries-a nationalized industry. Without the US giving Boeing subsidies, Boeing could not compete  with Airbus.

I know you do not like it but go tel the EU to stop giving subsidies to Airbus. 

https://www.lexingtoninstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/EuropeanSubsidiesBrochureFinal.pdf

@Hoodat



Offline Smokin Joe

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But . . . but . . . but it makes a liberal feel good if he knows that North Dakotans are driving EVs just like people living in Ithaca.  They just don't give a damn about your feelings.
They want North Dakotans to drive them? They can damn well move their liberal arse here and drive them. We'd likely even stop and pick them up so they don't freeze to death stuck on the side of the road in winter. (If there isn't enough juice to go, they'd better be dressed for the weather.)
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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The entire world is going battery power electric. Look at every Stihl commercial. All battery [powered even the new zero turns. The world wants battery powered.  No more oil changes, gas going bad, carburators fouling up, no more pulling that stupid cord over and over again.

A friend owns 16 power equipment dealers in 7 states. 75% of all  yard tools sales are now battery
Have you seen the new Stihl commercial where the commercial lawn scapers are raving over the new battery powered blowers and weeders?

The point is every country in the world is subsidizing their own industry that we have to compete against. without subsidies our homegrown companies are at a disadvantange. The US steel indsutry was destroyed due to subsidized from countries like Japan, S. Korea. This is no longer 1776 where we did not have to worry about other countries 2500 miles away.
We are in a global economy and no country plays fair.

@the OlLine Rebel
A yard tool running out of charge is an inconvenience that just sells extra batteries.

A vehicle running out of juice is a death warrant here in winter. You have no mobility, you can't see anyway, and have no heat. People here aren't about to risk their lives and the lives of their families to virtue signal, when we likely wouldn't mind a few degrees warmer climate, anyway.

I have known three people who froze to death here, even with all the odds in their favor. One slid into the ditch on a country road, got out to check how deep he was in, and the wind closed the door; automatic locks on a Cadillac. He was stuck outside the running car and froze to death. One froze to death on her own doorstep in town, and another apparently tried to walk home and underestimated the weather and the effects of hypothermia. Winter is nothing to trifle with here.

The people pushing this stuff have no clue.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Bigun

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A yard tool running out of charge is an inconvenience that just sells extra batteries.

A vehicle running out of juice is a death warrant here in winter. You have no mobility, you can't see anyway, and have no heat. People here aren't about to risk their lives and the lives of their families to virtue signal, when we likely wouldn't mind a few degrees warmer climate, anyway.

I have known three people who froze to death here, even with all the odds in their favor. One slid into the ditch on a country road, got out to check how deep he was in, and the wind closed the door; automatic locks on a Cadillac. He was stuck outside the running car and froze to death. One froze to death on her own doorstep in town, and another apparently tried to walk home and underestimated the weather and the effects of hypothermia. Winter is nothing to trifle with here.

The people pushing this stuff have no clue.

I own plenty of tools, both corded and battery powered. I'm never going to be in a situation where my life depends on any of them.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Why is ag subsidized, why are chips subsidized, why is nearly everything subsidized in the US?
Hint: other countries are heavily subsidizing their own industries and it will put our us companies at a disadvantage but you know that.
@Hoodat
No I do not know that subsidies are 'necessary'

Tariffs are the key to stay competitive with the likes of China, not subsidizing.

When China subsidizes, we are forced to subsidize, therefore the loser is the consumer as goods are higher-priced to recoup those subsidy costs.

Tariffs on the other hand on imported goods already being produced domestically eliminate US subsidies and have the added effect on the export country dropping its tariffs, so the consumer is the winner as no subsidy costs exist.

In case you did not catch this video, it explains why.
https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,542479.msg3087380.html#msg3087380
“You will never understand bureaucracies until you understand that for bureaucrats procedure is everything and outcomes are nothing.” Thomas Sowell

Offline Bigun

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No I do not know that subsidies are 'necessary'

Tariffs are the key to stay competitive with the likes of China, not subsidizing.

When China subsidizes, we are forced to subsidize, therefore the loser is the consumer as goods are higher-priced to recoup those subsidy costs.

Tariffs on the other hand on imported goods already being produced domestically eliminate US subsidies and have the added effect on the export country dropping its tariffs, so the consumer is the winner as no subsidy costs exist.

In case you did not catch this video, it explains why.
https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,542479.msg3087380.html#msg3087380

EVERY subsidy is just another avenue for draining $$$ from the public treasury into someone's private pockets. Much of that money returns to the campaign coffers of the appropriators.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline banddag

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They want North Dakotans to drive them? They can damn well move their liberal arse here and drive them. We'd likely even stop and pick them up so they don't freeze to death stuck on the side of the road in winter. (If there isn't enough juice to go, they'd better be dressed for the weather.)

Ev co's are working 24/7 on ev batteries not affected by extreme cold or heat temps. Chinese BYD claims to be working on one that has no or minimal power loss down to -10 degrees and charges in 15 minutes from 10-80%. by going to an non gelling fluid.

Companies cannot keep up with new battery technology ..it is not unlike the early days of computers.

No one is saying ev's are perfect for every environment. Gas/diesel cars will be around for decades.

I was looking at  a new battery powered Zero turn at my friends buisness. No belts, no hydraulic hoses. No oil/airfilter changes. Quiet as  church mouse, no vibration.

Each blade has it's own electric motor.  2 hour run time.  Either recharge or buy an extra set of batteries.  Expensive now but prices are coming down as every company is coming out with their own model.

@Smokin Joe

Offline Hoodat

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The US ag industry. it is welll documented the benefits.

Yet you fail to provide that documentation, @banddag


If there was a bumper crop year in say corn due to weather more planting etc, the price per bushel of corn plummets due to oversupply. The next year no one plants corn because it is too low per bushel to make  a profit whcih would then lead to a shortage because farmers would plant something else.

And why is this a problem?  Why does this make subsidies necessary?  Americans get more utility for each dollar spent.  And somehow you consider that bad?


Subsidies in ag keeps food prices stable.

Subsidies in agriculture keep food prices artificially high.  Consumers must then may more for food than they would otherwise, leaving less money to purchase other goods.  In other words, government has chosen to reward agricultural ventures at the expense of other industries and services.  Farmers who don't farm come out on top.  Consumers and other industries suffer.  Doesn't sound "necessary" to me.  Unless you are some rich Hollywood liberal who bought up a bunch of farmland somewhere and then uses one of your Ag Dept buddies to secure you checks from the US Treasury for doing absolutely nothing.


w/o susidies one year milk would be 1.99 gallon and the next year 7.00 gallon.

With subsidies, we get $5/gal milk every year.  In other words, the consumer pays more.  They get less utility for every dollar spent than they would without subsidies.


You would have wild swings in prices on a continual basis and food shortages.

We already have that with subsidies.  Have you been grocery shopping lately?


When corn per bushel is super low and farmers cannot make a profit the got pays them a subsidy to make up the difference.

First off, you just contradicted yourself.  Your case for subsidies is that it keeps prices stable, so there won't be a super low price for corn.  Now you are arguing that farmers should be paid if they produce a glut of corn driving the price down.  Your absolute ignorance of human nature is on display again.  If the government did this, they would overproduce corn every year knowing that government would make up the difference.  Clearly you do not understand how agriculture subsidies work.  This is the pitfall of making things up as you go.  And it is equally clear that you know nothing about economics.


Weather is another factor. Some years we have very poor crop yields due to droughts/too much rain. Many farmers would go under if not subsidized.

Farm subsidies pay farmers not to grow food.  Bad weather only affects those that do grow food.  Subsidies do nothing to help them.  Nothing.  Nor does it do anything about the weather.  And in the end, the consumer still pays more either way.  More during good weather.  More during bad weather.


Our food supply is too important to  give you control over in your unicorn world.

Yet you advocate paying farmers not to grow food.  How's that affecting our food supply?


BTW we  are subsidizing Israel every year to the tune of billions of dollars. Why is that subsidy necessary?
@Hoodat

It's not a subsidy.  It is foreign aid.  Big difference.  But if you have a problem with that Democrat policy, take it up with Jimmy Carter before he dies. 
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline catfish1957

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Yet you fail to provide that documentation, @banddag


And why is this a problem?  Why does this make subsidies necessary?  Americans get more utility for each dollar spent.  And somehow you consider that bad?


Subsidies in agriculture keep food prices artificially high.  Consumers must then may more for food than they would otherwise, leaving less money to purchase other goods.  In other words, government has chosen to reward agricultural ventures at the expense of other industries and services.  Farmers who don't farm come out on top.  Consumers and other industries suffer.  Doesn't sound "necessary" to me.  Unless you are some rich Hollywood liberal who bought up a bunch of farmland somewhere and then uses one of your Ag Dept buddies to secure you checks from the US Treasury for doing absolutely nothing.


With subsidies, we get $5/gal milk every year.  In other words, the consumer pays more.  They get less utility for every dollar spent than they would without subsidies.


We already have that with subsidies.  Have you been grocery shopping lately?


First off, you just contradicted yourself.  Your case for subsidies is that it keeps prices stable, so there won't be a super low price for corn.  Now you are arguing that farmers should be paid if they produce a glut of corn driving the price down.  Your absolute ignorance of human nature is on display again.  If the government did this, they would overproduce corn every year knowing that government would make up the difference.  Clearly you do not understand how agriculture subsidies work.  This is the pitfall of making things up as you go.  And it is equally clear that you know nothing about economics.


Farm subsidies pay farmers not to grow food.  Bad weather only affects those that do grow food.  Subsidies do nothing to help them.  Nothing.  Nor does it do anything about the weather.  And in the end, the consumer still pays more either way.  More during good weather.  More during bad weather.


Yet you advocate paying farmers not to grow food.  How's that affecting our food supply?


It's not a subsidy.  It is foreign aid.  Big difference.  But if you have a problem with that Democrat policy, take it up with Jimmy Carter before he dies.

That may be the worst 10 minutes you've spent this year.   Trollz be trollz.
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Offline Hoodat

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The people pushing this stuff have no clue.

They have no clue about a lot of things.  At least with a fuel cell EV, they could stay warm.  But this battery nonsense is a colossal waste of money, metal, and vehicle weight.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline DefiantMassRINO

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You need to stop getting all your info from wacko rw websites. They will make you  ignorant and stupid
.

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Offline the OlLine Rebel

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The entire world is going battery power electric. Look at every Stihl commercial. All battery [powered even the new zero turns. The world wants battery powered.  No more oil changes, gas going bad, carburators fouling up, no more pulling that stupid cord over and over again.

A friend owns 16 power equipment dealers in 7 states. 75% of all  yard tools sales are now battery
Have you seen the new Stihl commercial where the commercial lawn scapers are raving over the new battery powered blowers and weeders?

The point is every country in the world is subsidizing their own industry that we have to compete against. without subsidies our homegrown companies are at a disadvantange. The US steel indsutry was destroyed due to subsidized from countries like Japan, S. Korea. This is no longer 1776 where we did not have to worry about other countries 2500 miles away.
We are in a global economy and no country plays fair.

@the OlLine Rebel

“The world” wants and is going?  No, the COMMUNIST POLITICIANS want it and are FORCING it as tyrants do.

We have low-flow plumbing now because dictators think it’s best for everyone and successively reduced volumes for toilets. Etc.  It does not work well and any of us would have 3.5gal tanks if we were “allowed”.  Likewise the curly-fry lightbulbs.  Dictators tell us it’s better for The Environment(TM) than simple good old-fashioned incandescent, so they FORBADE companies from MAKING them.  And guess what?  People don’t like the CFL.  But we’re still not allowed incandescent but thank God the LEDs have been developed, as they’re so much better than CFLs.

The World will find out that electric still is not viable especially for anything requiring repeated usage in short time, torque and toughness.  Half of you religious zealots can try it but you’ll hate it even if it takes a few years to realize all the disadvantages.

Oh and BTW, tools being forced, also - Baltimore just passed another asinine fascist law disallowing blowers that are gas.  Mostly for “noise” but also for “pollution”.  As if that’s going to make a dent in their religious concerns.
Common sense is an uncommon virtue.

Offline Smokin Joe

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“The world” wants and is going?  No, the COMMUNIST POLITICIANS want it and are FORCING it as tyrants do.

We have low-flow plumbing now because dictators think it’s best for everyone and successively reduced volumes for toilets. Etc.  It does not work well and any of us would have 3.5gal tanks if we were “allowed”.  Likewise the curly-fry lightbulbs.  Dictators tell us it’s better for The Environment(TM) than simple good old-fashioned incandescent, so they FORBADE companies from MAKING them.  And guess what?  People don’t like the CFL.  But we’re still not allowed incandescent but thank God the LEDs have been developed, as they’re so much better than CFLs.

The World will find out that electric still is not viable especially for anything requiring repeated usage in short time, torque and toughness.  Half of you religious zealots can try it but you’ll hate it even if it takes a few years to realize all the disadvantages.

Oh and BTW, tools being forced, also - Baltimore just passed another asinine fascist law disallowing blowers that are gas.  Mostly for “noise” but also for “pollution”.  As if that’s going to make a dent in their religious concerns.
Unfortunately, the People's Republic of Maryland has gone from 'America in Miniature' to Totalitarianism in a nutshell.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Ford Lost Another $58K For Every EV Sold In Third Quarter, Or $1.2 Billion
by Robert Bryce   
Oct 29, 2024
Climate Change Dispatch
Quote
The ugly EV news from Ford Motor Company just keeps coming. This afternoon, the company reported that it lost $1.224 billion in its EV business during the third quarter. In early October, the company reported EV sales “were up 14.8 percent on best-ever sales of 20,962 vehicles.”

Thus, simple division shows that the storied automaker lost $58,391 for each EV it sold during the quarter.

The company’s losses on its EV business, known as “Model e”, for the first nine months of 2024 total $3.7 billion.

For reference, that $3.7 billion loss is equal to the gross profit (Ford calls it EBIT, short for earnings before interest and taxes) it made on Ford Blue, the division that makes internal combustion vehicles. ...

Also in August, the company said it was going to move some of its battery production out of foreign factories into US locations so it could qualify for more federal subsidies available under the Inflation Reduction Act.

As I reported here last year, Ford and other automakers are aiming to collect tens of billions of dollars via the 45X tax credit in the IRA for making batteries in the US.

For instance, Ford is building a battery plant in Marshall, Michigan, which is expected to create about 4,200 jobs. According to Good Jobs First, each job at the new Ford plant will cost taxpayers $3.4 million. ...
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Offline Bigun

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It takes 1.4 units of energy to produce 1 unit from corn ethanol. I must have skipped a few days of my economics class.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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It takes 1.4 units of energy to produce 1 unit from corn ethanol. I must have skipped a few days of my economics class.
Makes you wonder what the balance sheet looks like on wind and solar, doesn't it?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline catfish1957

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It takes 1.4 units of energy to produce 1 unit from corn ethanol. I must have skipped a few days of my economics class.

I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Hoodat

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It takes 1.4 units of energy to produce 1 unit from corn ethanol.

They'll make it up in volume.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Offline Hoodat

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Ford Reports $1.2 Billion Loss On Electric Vehicles In Q3 Amid Struggling EV Market

Leslie Bolden  •  11h


Ford Motor Company recorded a $1.2 billion loss on electric vehicles (EV) in the third quarter of 2024, as announced in a press release Monday. The automaker’s net income also dropped to $0.9 billion, down by $300 million from the same period last year, primarily due to a $1 billion EV-related charge.

Ford’s full-year earnings before interest and taxes (EBIT) are expected to reach about $9 billion from its Ford Pro commercial vehicle division, while its EV segment, Model e, is projected to close the year with a $5 billion loss.

“We are in a strong position with Ford+ as our industry undergoes a sweeping transformation,” said Ford President and CEO Jim Farley. “We have made strategic decisions and taken the tough actions to create advantages for Ford versus the competition in key areas like Ford Pro, international operations, software and next-generation electric vehicles. Importantly, over time, we have significant financial upside as we bend the curve on cost and quality, a key focus of our team.”

Despite ongoing challenges in the EV market, Ford has been working to boost EV sales, offering incentives such as free EV chargers and home installations. Ford’s total EV losses for 2023 have reached $4.7 billion.

The automaker previously reported a $1.3 billion loss in Q1 and canceled plans for three-row electric SUVs in August.  .  .  .

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/ford-reports-12-billion-loss-on-electric-vehicles-in-q3-amid-struggling-ev-market/ar-AA1t8ZeD



@banddag

Billions paid out in taxpayer subsidies, yet they still lost close to $5 billion.  This right here is why Democrats should never be in charge of anything related to economics.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-