Trump before classified briefing: I don’t trust US intel and won't use them

[Idaho_Cowboy]

IMHO, the Bush Administration was not emphatic enough about WMDs found, nor the likely exit of more of the same to Syria and the Bekaa Valley http://worldtribune.com/worldtribune/wmd.asp http://www.nysun.com/foreign/iraqs-wmd-secreted-in-syria-sada-says/26514/ https://pjmedia.com/blog/satellite-photos-support-testimony-that-iraqi-wmd-went-to-syria/ possibly via Russian convoy in the runup to the Iraq war. I think some of what is going on with the Russians and Syria may have something to do with those weapons and their disposition.

When the SOS and CinC can watch in real time as our people on the ground fight it out with terrorists and not authorize air support or a rescue mission, the intel wasn't the problem, something else was. Somewhere behind the scenes there was a reason for NOT authorizing a rescue mission, and there is likely to be found the most foul aspect of the entire situation.

Let's not forget Saddam was making a complete mockery out of the UN. I may be the last one on the face of the earth to believe it, but he needed to be taken down. Bush told us stay the course and Obama decided to stay on the golf course instead of wrap the job up.

[r9etb]

Let's not forget Saddam was making a complete mockery out of the UN. I may be the last one on the face of the earth to believe it, but he needed to be taken down. Bush told us stay the course and Obama decided to stay on the golf course instead of wrap the job up.

Probably the most important part -- never discussed but reasonably obvious -- is the strategic advantage of having substantial US forces in the region.  Look at the map: Iraq borders Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait. 

Imagine how the war in Syria would be affected if we were still there.  There'd be no ISIS, of course.  Iran's activities would necessarily be curtailed, and their "promises" on the nuke agreement would be subject to real scrutiny.

And Obama threw it all away.

[Victoria33]

@Neverdul

Thanks for showing the insignias of our various intelligence groups.  My significant other is especially angry at Trump for his attack on our intelligence agencies because he was assigned to the Pentagon, worked in intelligence with our agents and other intelligence groups and had the highest clearance.  When they would have a check of their system, as in a mock attack, sig. other was flown by helicopter to Camp David and put underground due to what he knew.  When he left the Pentagon, he was sworn to secrecy for 20 years.

He was also used as a test subject, along with a few others, to see how long it would take for them to "break".   They were taken to Camp David to an underground facility.  He was kept alone, endured their efforts to make him quit, and he lasted a month before he had enough.  The others quit well before he did.   He knows the detail of what happens in our intelligence efforts.  He has been there and done that.  He did, at times, if no one else was available, have the briefcase handcuffed to him to deliver messages to certain government officials.  He was and is a patriot.  He is incensed at Trump for making light of our intelligence agencies.  I am sure Trump would wilt quickly if he had to go through what our intelligence people do.

Neither of us think Trump should be allowed to know our secrets.  I expect they would show up in his twitter frenzy.  Do you think he could be sworn to secrecy for 20 years and not tell those secrets?  I wouldn’t trust him to know my age and not tell it.

@austingirl, @Bigun, @catfish1957, @CatherineofAragon, @Cripplecreek, @Cyber Liberty, @DB,  @don-o @EC, @ExFreeper, @goodwithagun,
@Gov Bean Counter, @Hoodat, @Just_Victor, @mlizzy, @mrpotatohead, @mystery-ak, @NavyCanDo, @Unlimited, @sinkspur, @Smokin Joe, @starstruck, @Timber Rattler, @Wingnut, @IsailedawayfromFR, @AllThatJazzZ, @XenaLee

[Sanguine]

How can you be wrong for asking a question and then expressing some doubt about the accuracy of the answer? 

Except that that's not what you did.   

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Let's not forget Saddam was making a complete mockery out of the UN. I may be the last one on the face of the earth to believe it, but he needed to be taken down. Bush told us stay the course and Obama decided to stay on the golf course instead of wrap the job up.

It also turned out that he was telling other Arab leaders in the region that he did have WMD's, and would use them against us if we attacked.  And those leaders told General Franks, so that was additional information we had that we could not simply dismiss or discount.  He was even telling his own generals that he had them.  Turns out he was largely lying, but there was absolutely no way for us to know that.

Given that he was telling other nations (secretly) that he had them, telling his own generals that he had them, while denying it publicly and also refusing prompt inspections, we made the only call we could.

Truth is, that jerkwad's failure to follow through with his obligations under that ceasefile meant that we were going to have to keep a large military presence in that region indefinitely to contain him.  And that was not good.  The only way to ever get out fully was to go the long way out -- through Baghdad.

[Longmire]

Except that that's not what you did.   

Sure it is...I asked how much debt Cruz had left from the campaign.

Your answer +20 million sounded off and according to this source it is way off.

https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?cid=N00033085

-btw If Cruz did end the campaign with +20 million than it would mean his supporters/donors really got cheated, so you should be grateful not angry I pointed out the inaccuracy of your answer. 

[Neverdul]

@Neverdul

Thanks for showing the insignias of our various intelligence groups.

@Victoria33

Thank you for sharing your significant other’s perspective of things. It is important and tell him that I thank him for his service (and yours too).

After my divorce I dated a man for about a year and a half who, when I first met him was a Commander in the USN and working at Ft. Meade (NSA).  When we met during a golf outing, he asked me out and gave me his business card on which he wrote down his home phone number on the back. I don’t recall all the details but the department he was assigned to, managed was called something like “Information Warfare”. 

I knew enough not to ask him about his work, not that he would have told me and not that I even wanted to know, but did one day say that “sometimes we wear the black hats and try to get into the bad guy’s systems and sometimes we wear the white hats and keep the bad guys out of ours”. I know that he had a background in cryptology and served on several ships during his career and had an advanced mathematics degree.

Shortly after we started dating he retired from active duty after putting in his 20, he went to work for a DOD contractor also at Ft. Meade and then at the Pentagon, basically according to him, working in the same areas of defense and intelligence.

He also told me that after 9-11 he and many others he worked with worked nearly 24-7 over the course of several weeks. That he basically slept on a cot in in his office.

After we had been going out for a while, after dinner and movie and a long romantic walk, he causally and sort of awkwardly asked me, “So just curious, where were you born, what was your maiden name, what was your mother’s maiden name?”  I just smiled and said, “I know you have to tell the Men In Black who you are dating, so I’m am glad to tell you but wouldn’t it just be easier if I gave you my SSN so they can do the background check on me?” He blushed and said, “Well that would help.”

A lot of people do not understand what people working in intelligence and or with high level security clearances go through (along with their immediate families) as far as divulging things about their personal lives and relationships that most others would find too intrusive for their employer to ask.

[Gefn]

@Victoria33 

Thank your significant other for his service to our country. He sounds like a great man.


We need more of his calibre.

 

[Smokin Joe]

I think you guys are actually starting to believe your own false narratives....

Just a little friendly advice. Beware of echo chambers. The so-called "facts" y'all bounce around here mostly fail to stand up to scrutiny. But, you wouldn't notice. You're too busy hating on Donald Trump. 

There's that "hating" stuff again. I guess it is difficult for some to see this election in unemotional terms. Simply enough, I refuse to vote for a candidate who has demonstrated contempt for the law, the truth, and human decency--either one. Someone who has a long record of contractor complaints for nonpayment isn't someone I'd trust. No hate involved. No trust, either. Neither of the candidates has a record for adhering to the truth, neither has a record of Conservatism, and neither can stand up to scrutiny.
Frankly, I don't want someone who will fly off the handle and drop a first strike attack on someone without finding out the facts, as did Trump on Heidi (and Ted) Cruz over Liz Mair's (pro-Rubio, anti-Trump) PAC offering of a European Magazine cover image, then lie and double down to cover for the initial mistake. Nothing emotional about that disturbing trait, just a potential problem.
If he won't use intel, and has his hand on the football, that could be a disconcerting trait to have in the midst of any geopolitically volatile situation, especially during an era in which Third world or nongovernmental entities might be the hostile parties, but sources of materials or even weapons might indicate a party who was only marginally involved--provided that he listened to even that much intel.
I joke about living close enough to the silos to have a ringside seat for WWIII, but I'd prefer not to see the contrails heading up, for the sake of my grandkids and great grandkids.
In Hillary's case, while I am sure she was in up to her eyebrows in the situation which led to the debacle at Benghazi, but the Secretary of State can only recommend taking military action to defend against attack at best. The power to unleash even limited military force rests with the President, and the President alone.  I have no doubt she is part of that problem, but the one who left those men to die was Obama.

[Gefn]

@Neverdul

When Sept 11 happened I worked in an international news office. For about a week, that was the story we worked on. I ate, slept and showered at the office. I went back to my apt once to get a few changes of clothes, put out a few litter boxes and food for my cat. And ask a neighbor to bring in my mail, check on the cat daily, and if she was in distress, call me.


After about 8 days I went home, showered, collapsed on the bed and slept something like 14 hours straight.

I still have nightmares. The weird thing is I was supposed to be off from work that day because I had an appointment  at 8:30, right by there, and they had called me the previous week to cancel and made it for the 18th.

It pains me that some people have forgotten - I don't know how you can if you lived it.

[Fantom]

No, not at all, loser.

By the way, now that you lost the republican primaries, Ted, I want to thank you for your full-throated endorsement of the GOP nominee, Donald Trump. ...What's that? You didn't endorse the nominee of your party? #NeverMindLoser....

  Poor baby...poor poor baby. 

[Smokin Joe]

@Neverdul

When Sept 11 happened I worked in an international news office. For about a week, that was the story we worked on. I ate, slept and showered at the office. I went back to my apt once to get a few changes of clothes, put out a few litter boxes and food for my cat. And ask a neighbor to bring in my mail, check on the cat daily, and if she was in distress, call me.


After about 8 days I went home, showered, collapsed on the bed and slept something like 14 hours straight.

I still have nightmares. The weird thing is I was supposed to be off from work that day because I had an appointment  at 8:30, right by there, and they had called me the previous week to cancel and made it for the 18th.

It pains me that some people have forgotten - I don't know how you can if you lived it.

I was on an oil rig in Montana that day, looking at drill cuttings (rock samples) when the guy who worked my off shift came over to the lab and said "A plane just hit the World Trade Center." He'd heard it on the radio. I recalled a B-25 had hit the Empire State Building in '47, but figured some yahoo in a small plane had just screwed up. (We didn't know how big the plane was yet.) A little while later, he came back and said "Another plane just hit the other tower." The hair stood up on the back of my neck, and I looked at him and said "That isn't an accident, it's an attack."

I won't forget, either, and I was 2500 miles away. I'm glad you are safe.

[Gefn]

I was on an oil rig in Montana that day, looking at drill cuttings (rock samples) when the guy who worked my off shift came over to the lab and said "A plane just hit the World Trade Center." He'd heard it on the radio. I recalled a B-25 had hit the Empire State Building in '47, but figured some yahoo in a small plane had just screwed up. (We didn't know how big the plane was yet.) A little while later, he came back and said "Another plane just hit the other tower." The hair stood up on the back of my neck, and I looked at him and said "That isn't an accident, it's an attack."

I won't forget, either, and I was 2500 miles away. I'm glad you are safe.

I'm ok. I live in NJ. Nothing ever happens here. :)

I only go into the city maybe two, three times a year. To museums, and at Christmas to see the tree at Rockefeller Plaza, watch the ice skaters, have a hot chocolate. I can't afford Broadway theatre anymore. 

[Oceander]

I was on an oil rig in Montana that day, looking at drill cuttings (rock samples) when the guy who worked my off shift came over to the lab and said "A plane just hit the World Trade Center." He'd heard it on the radio. I recalled a B-25 had hit the Empire State Building in '47, but figured some yahoo in a small plane had just screwed up. (We didn't know how big the plane was yet.) A little while later, he came back and said "Another plane just hit the other tower." The hair stood up on the back of my neck, and I looked at him and said "That isn't an accident, it's an attack."

I won't forget, either, and I was 2500 miles away. I'm glad you are safe.

I was in mid-town Manhattan that day.  I had the exact same reaction you had:  when I heard of the first plane, I thought it was an accident, like the bomber in '47; when I heard of the second, I knew it was an attack.