Great! Thanks for starting this.
I am the keeper of my family tree, bequeathed by my mother. She had gotten all the material into Family Tree Maker. When she passed it to me, I had a couple years to ask her many questions. It amazed her (in her early 90's) that she could remember things that she had not thought about in years.
She's gone now and there's answers that only she could give me that will remain questions.
Anyone who has thought about doing this...Do not delay.
Thanks for setting up the thread. As I said earlier, In my retirement, I occasionally teach genealogy classes for the local genealogical library. My class, focuses mostly on making sure students realize that the internet is probably the best and worst things ever to happen to genealogy. Good, in that we now have the ability to research in weeks what used to take a lifetime, Bad, in that there is so many mistakes on databases, that seem to perpetuate, it is near impossible believe half what are shown on many family trees.
Secondly, I provide what I feel are the best sites on the web for research, and then provide a navigational tour through those sites so the students can get a leg up in researching. Third, I like to give a good bit of time of ways, means, and suggestions on how to deal with those brick walls that we all have in extending our tree.
I also volunteer at our genealogical library when time permits, helping patrons with research.
So just as a starter, here is the list I provide students. I hope we can have some good discussions from there.
Genweb
Rootsweb
Ancestry
familysearcg.org
Cyndi's List
Heritage Quet
Genforum
Vitalrec.com
Higginson's Books
Find A Grave
How many times have I figuratively kick myself for not taking the time to write down things I was told or asking questions of the people who knew the answers while they were still around!!!
Excellent list! I have personal accounts at both Ancestry and Family Search. I also use Family Tree DNA (it's the best there is) for DNA testing and GEDmatch.com for comparing my dna with that of others.Have used FTDNA and Ancestry's dna tests with great results. I think FTDNA is more competent in the field, but Ancestry's tools for matches beat FTDNA hands down. Have you taken the plunge at FTDNA with Big Y yet? Been a bust here so far. My drilled down to a finite haplogroup that has about only 3 other members, and none have my surname. :(
Thanks for setting up this page.
In the late 1990s, I got into a genealogy hobby, as I started tracing my Irish family roots. It's a great (albeit time-consuming) pastime!
You are most welcome! When I saw that someone had suggested doing this I jumped right on it! One of the main reasons I thought it might be useful here is that there are folks from all over the place on TBR and we may be able to help each other in overcoming roadblocks!
For instance I need help with a man named Alexander Wren who was born somewhere along the James River in Virginia around the year 1772.
Have used FTDNA and Ancestry's dna tests with great results. I think FTDNA is more competent in the field, but Ancestry's tools for matches beat FTDNA hands down. Have you taken the plunge at FTDNA with Big Y yet? Been a bust here so far. My drilled down to a finite haplogroup that has about only 3 other members, and none have my surname. :(
You are right. Scant info on this guy. I will look further.
Alexander Wren
Birth: 1772 - USA
Death: Virginia, United States
Marriage: 21 Dec 1785 - Greensville, Virginia, United States
Spouse: Lucy Lawrence
They are my fourth great grandparents on my father's side and any help you can provide in finding out anything more about him will be greatly appreciated. (I suspect that not much will ever be found unless we find a family bible or something like that as I doubt there are many official records from that area in that era.)
Genealogy - Getting to know your Heritage.
This Thread is posted for discussion of Genealogy or the study of one's Heritage.
I personally think it to be one of the most important undertakings one can engage in and besides that I LOVE it!
Free accounts available at http://myheritage.com
I noticed that there are several Wrens in the Greensville County area in the 1700's. Hmmmm....
1. Any dna matches to other Wrens?
2. If he was a land owner, have you checked the land plat maps of that county, and see if there was a neighboring Wren? Back in those days, chunks were often cut off the father's larger section, and dispersed to children
3. Any siblings or children which may have surname sounding first names? Often a clue.
You are most welcome! When I saw that someone had suggested doing this I jumped right on it! One of the main reasons I thought it might be useful here is that there are folks from all over the place on TBR and we may be able to help each other in overcoming roadblocks!
For instance I need help with a man named Alexander Wren who was born somewhere along the James River in Virginia around the year 1772.
Bigun, thanks for setting this thread up. I have accounts at ancestry.com and myheritage. The DNA at ancestry has linked me to a number of cousins from first on through fourth. BTW, my heritage does have some records on Alexander Wren:
https://www.myheritage.com/research/collection-1/myheritage-family-trees?s=148604651&itemId=175863341-5-2225&action=showRecord
Apparently there are multiple trees and some records that have him listed.
Thanks again for starting this thread. :patriot:
Thanks MAC!
I had an account there as well until recently. They have what I have but no more that I could find. (I find that site much more difficult to use than the others for some reason.)
I went all in for genealogy around 1996 when my father died. Had some great elements of data on both sides of my family, and it was early days for the internet.
Got to about 2,000 entries in the tree. Then burnout. My interest changed from names, dates, places, to the history of regions and groups of people.
I started reading non-fiction history, and historical fiction. Even some actual writings by family. Like about two direct ancestors killed by Indians. (Maternal side-George Ricker, Maine killed 1706; Paternal side-Athe Meeks, Indiana, killed 1812)
And then a couple of months ago learning from DNA that I am 4% "indigenous north American" as they said. The problem is we do not know who or where in the tree they are.
Thanks for starting this discussion. I have been researching my family history for many years including hours upon hours at the DAR library in DC as well as the Archives in Annapolis, MD. I've traced my American ancestors back to early 1650s in MD/VA. Thus far, I just can't prove the official (i.e. documented) link to the old world as of yet.
REGIONAPPROXIMATE AMOUNT
Africa < 1%
Trace Regions < 1%
Africa North < 1%
Europe 99%
Great Britain 50%
Europe West 22%
Scandinavia 13%
Iberian Peninsula 6%
Trace Regions 8%
Ireland 5%
Italy/Greece 2%
Finland/Northwest Russia < 1%
Your Predicted Haplogroup is I-M170
And then a couple of months ago learning from DNA that I am 4% "indigenous north American" as they said. The problem is we do not know who or where in the tree they are.
Maybe the biggest argument I have gotten into with distant cousins was that we had Cherokee ancestry and they diverted that sect into Northern Arkansas on the way to OK on the Trail of Tears. Then I got my Ancestry and FTDNA results:
Ancestry - 53% Great Britain 23% Ireland 18% Scandinavia 5% Iberian Peninsula <1% Both Eastern and Western Europe = 100% European
FTDNA- 45% British Isle 37% Western and Central Europe 11% Scandinavia 7% Finland = 100% European
Still the lady screams this stuff was voodoo. Some people just don't want family history messed with. In my case, the bigger shock for me, is that even though I have traced 95% of family at least into the 1700's, there are no Scandinavian surnames present. Guess about 1 in 5 of my ancestors were plundering Vikings.
I think the discrepancy of the Central and Western may be migration timing. Not absolutely sure.
You don't have any from the Normandy region of France per chance? I have a couple of Hugoenot ancestors from there that ultimately trace back to Norway and Sweden.
You hit the nail on the head on the confusion of timing. Were (Normans) these enumerated in Western Europe or in Scandinavia. Still haven't figured that out.
Hard to say, if I understand what you're asking. Would assume any genetic testing would be based off markers, and being that the Vikings did alot of conquest in that part of the world (British Isles, France, Germany, etc), that might explain things. But, you'd probably have to go back pretty far to get to the actual surnames.
Luckily, with research 99.7% of my ancestry comes from British Isles... One German (Penn Dutch) at great great great great great grandparent level. Of course both Ancestry and FTDNA do show that there are "ranges" involved with these estimates, so who knows.
Our ancestors may have known each other. :laugh: Mine came over with Wm. Penn, but was Scottish, Clan McGregor.
This is as far back as I have gotten so far:
John "The Vintner" Carter
1574–1630
BIRTH 1574 • Hertfordshire, England
DEATH 1630 • England and Newgate, London, England
10th great-grandfather
But there are still gaps that need to be filled in.
After the Battle of Aughrim (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Aughrim), the bodies of the Irish were left where they fell, to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field. Among them was an Irish officer, who was killed and stripped in the battle. But his faithful dog discovered his remains and guarded the body day and night; and though he fed with other dogs on the slain around, yet he would not allow them, or any thing else, to touch the body of his master. When all the dead bodies were consumed, the other dogs departed; but this one used to go in the night to the adjacent villages for food, and presently return to the place where his master's bones only were then left. Thus he continued from July, when the battle was fought, till January following, when one of Colonel Foulk's soldiers, who was quartered in the neighborhood, happening to go near the spot, the dog, fearing he came to disturb his master's bones, rushed upon the man, who unslung his musket on the instant, and shot the poor animal dead. He expired faithful as he had lived.
After the Battle of Aughrim, the bodies of the Irish were left where they fell, to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field. Among them was an Irish officer, who was killed and stripped in the battle. But his faithful dog discovered his remains and guarded the body day and night; and though he fed with other dogs on the slain around, yet he would not allow them, or any thing else, to touch the body of his master. When all the dead bodies were consumed, the other dogs departed; but this one used to go in the night to the adjacent villages for food, and presently return to the place where his master's bones only were then left. Thus he continued from July, when the battle was fought, till January following, when one of Colonel Foulk's soldiers, who was quartered in the neighborhood, happening to go near the spot, the dog, fearing he came to disturb his master's bones, rushed upon the man, who unslung his musket on the instant, and shot the poor animal dead. He expired faithful as he had lived.
This is as far back as I have gotten so far:
John "The Vintner" Carter
1574–1630
BIRTH 1574 • Hertfordshire, England
DEATH 1630 • England and Newgate, London, England
10th great-grandfather
But there are still gaps that need to be filled in.
Newgate, my brother? That tends to mean one thing here - execution. :tongue2:
I don't have much spare time, but ....
If someone gets really stuck on an ancestor in the the south of England (London/Kent/Sussex) and I have the time and feel like doing the driving, I'll do an eyeball check of parish records for you.
I think I have had 7 direct line ancestors either executed, banished, or transported since 1300. :tongue2:
Newgate, my brother? That tends to mean one thing here - execution. :tongue2:
I don't have much spare time, but ....
If someone gets really stuck on an ancestor in the the south of England (London/Kent/Sussex) and I have the time and feel like doing the driving, I'll do an eyeball check of parish records for you.
@Bigun, @catfish1957, thanks for posting this. I've dipped my toes into genealogy, but needed some direction to go further.
@Bigun
@catfish1957
@EC
My paternal grandparents & 2 of their children came to England from Russian Poland bet. 1891-1893. I know neither exactly when they arrived nor how they traveled. At Ancestry's UK incoming passenger lists, I don't see them. Are there any other possible sources of which you're aware?
Yes!
https://support.ancestry.com/s/article/Tips-for-finding-immigration-records-1460088565991-2214
Don't think that'll work (unless I missed something). I already know when they arrived in the US (1908). I know that the last child born in Russian Poland was in 1891 & the first born in London was in 1893, but I don't have a date for their arrival in England. (if that can be found anywhere).
I would think you would need to search the immigration records of England for that period. There is information at the link I posted for you as to how to do that.
Was going to print the entire contents of the link here & ask what related to England's immigration records, but maybe it would be easier if you posted the relevant part of your link here...tx
Pretty interesting. Transitioning from names and dates to historical context is a good thing. I did that too, and yet come back from time to time to the names and dates as new information comes my way. Do you match anyone in the DNA database that also has Indian blood? It likely can't go back farther much than the 1700s. Are there any suspect locations such as areas in or near reservations where your ancestors might have lived? If you could possibly get it to a tribe, many of them have excellent databases. That would really send me into search-land, lol.Plenty of potential contact with Indians, dating back to mid 1600s in New England, later Virginia, North and South Carolina, Kentucky, Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota, etc.
The part surrounding this:
(https://support.ancestry.com/servlet/rtaImage?eid=ka215000000H5uD&feoid=00N1500000GnKZ6&refid=0EM1500000055ch)
The part surrounding this:
(https://support.ancestry.com/servlet/rtaImage?eid=ka215000000H5uD&feoid=00N1500000GnKZ6&refid=0EM1500000055ch)
Oh, that. I did that years ago (& again recently), but didn't find them under UK incoming passenger lists. I do have the Ancestry International subscription (since I share it with 3 other folks).
OK. I wasn't sure as to where you were.
The link I provided also has links to many other possible places to search for that kind of information.
Are you sure that the people you are looking for were ever legal residents of England?
Legal meaning citizens? If so, not sure. However, they were there from c. 1892 to 1908 & I have birth & death certificates, school rosters, etc., from London for several of them. Didn't see anything in those other links specifically...which is why I had to ask where I was supposed to be looking...thanks.
Was going to print the entire contents of the link here & ask what related to England's immigration records, but maybe it would be easier if you posted the relevant part of your link here...tx
You are in luck - slightly. Since a child was born here, that you know of, after 1860, their birth certificate will be in the archives, which will include the parent's parish. If no parish is recorded, they arrived within 6 months of the date of issue of the birth certificate. That certainly trims down the records search.
https://www.somersethouse.org.uk/contact/public-records
It's no longer held at Somerset House (they sold off the building to developers :shrug: ) but that link gives you where to ask and how.
Excellent list! I have personal accounts at both Ancestry and Family Search. I also use Family Tree DNA (it's the best there is) for DNA testing and GEDmatch.com for comparing my dna with that of others.Thanks for that testimonial. I've been thinking of doing a DNA test. I know of my Anglo ancestry, and possibly Danish, but thought it would be interesting to see what else was "in the mix." My husband's four grandparents all came to America from present-day Croatia (they were Serbs), and he's worked on his genealogy for years. Nevertheless, it also might be interesting to find any non-Serb blood in him!
Thanks for that testimonial. I've been thinking of doing a DNA test. I know of my Anglo ancestry, and possibly Danish, but thought it would be interesting to see what else was "in the mix." My husband's four grandparents all came to America from present-day Croatia (they were Serbs), and he's worked on his genealogy for years. Nevertheless, it also might be interesting to find any non-Serb blood in him!
As I am sure you are aware, there are different kinds of DNA tests.
Anyone can do an autosomal which is useful for finding your ethnicity and those who share a similar DNA profile. Ladies can also do a mitochondrial test. and men can do a Y test.
The reasons why one might choose to do any of those are well explained at the link below.
https://dna-explained.com/2012/10/01/4-kinds-of-dna-for-genetic-genealogy/
I'm 100% Swedish - all grandparents were born there, and have traced back to the 18th century, again all in Sweden, though one was born in what is Finland today but was part of Sweden at the time.
I did a DNA test through ancestry.com and they came up with the obvious results. The percentages are averages, and I came out 51% Scandinavian, which could be as high as 70%. The rest were parts of German, Western Russian, Finnish and north western European.
One thing I found helpful, in addition to materials about tracing Swedish roots here, was the Swedish-American Immigration Center in Karlstad, Varmland, Sweden. We spent about two hours there, and they came up with loads of details from the Lutheran Church records of my grandparents, great-grandparents, and great-great grandparents.
We were able to visit the birthplaces of all 4 grandparents and 8 great-grandparents, and even see the large farm than my maternal great-grandfather farmed, and the Iron mine where my paternal great-grandfather worked, and where he decided he wanted more opportunity, so decided to come to America.
One thing that was remarkable to me while I was there, is how much I felt "home".................. like I was among my people.
I've always been 100% American, but my roots have been strong in Sweden, and I guess my internal DNA knew that. ^-^
The Fuller family came here from England on a Puritan ship in the 1630s.
1/16 of my ancestry is MA/CT puritans too. Remember seeing an NEHGS study showing people with common ancestry to the Winthrop Fleet migration have an 85-90% probability of common ancestry on those Winthrop lines.
This thread has sparked my interest to get back to researching my tree. I had mentioned joining SAR and SCV. Well Today I submitted two preliminary review forms to the General Society of Mayflower Descendants as I have two Mayflower Compact Signatories in my tree; Edward Doty and Frances Cooke.
Is anyone concerned about what might happen to your DNA samples? I guess it's hard to trust anyone, at a time when google, Facebook, et al., seem to be handmaidens for the Zero Administration.
Is anyone concerned about what might happen to your DNA samples? I guess it's hard to trust anyone, at a time when google, Facebook, et al., seem to be handmaidens for the Zero Administration.Yes, that's part of the reason why my family refuses to do anything like that.
Thanks for setting up this page.
In the late 1990s, I got into a genealogy hobby, as I started tracing my Irish family roots. It's a great (albeit time-consuming) pastime!
Is anyone concerned about what might happen to your DNA samples? I guess it's hard to trust anyone, at a time when google, Facebook, et al., seem to be handmaidens for the Zero Administration.
Is anyone concerned about what might happen to your DNA samples? I guess it's hard to trust anyone, at a time when google, Facebook, et al., seem to be handmaidens for the Zero Administration.
New England has some absolutely awesome records. With my particular New England great great grandfather, I have traced 113/128 of his ancestors back to England and Scotland. over 90%!!!!! However, they all came over on boats 3- 100+ (1628-1660). not a single one to the Mayflower. :(
You're welcome and good luck on your search. I do use that site from time to time, and I did notice they had some links to other sites for Mr. Wren. Anyway, I agree with those here who recommend talking to the older ones in our family. That would now be me, and I'm trying to answer any questions my family may one day have. I wish to this day I would have followed that sage advice, but in any case, working through both Ancestry and Heritage as well as DNA, have put together five generations complete, and some going back farther than that.
My mother's side was Irish and all came over in the late 1840s on the famine ships. My father's side was almost all English. What a difference. The Irish side is extremely difficult to trace earlier than the late 1700s; the English side on some names can trace back to the Normans. Better record keeping I guess.
Ping to follow this thread. Thanks for starting.
Been doing it off and on for 20 years. Have a large family tree as both sides (maternal and paternal) trace back to 1600's in America. Eaton's of MA/NH on paternal side. On maternal side, the Stone's, Clark's, and Lee's of VA and Vansciver's of NJ.
My parents spent years researching their families. My mom now has several file cabinets full of info. They traced our family back to Abraham Lincoln's wife (yes she ended up in a mental institution....hmmm...that explains some things.) Sadly neither my brother or I don't really have an interest in this information.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXOwNOf2QXY
You are right. Scant info on this guy. I will look further.
Alexander Wren
Birth: 1772 - USA
Death: Virginia, United States
Marriage: 21 Dec 1785 - Greensville, Virginia, United States
Spouse: Lucy Lawrence
If you wish I can send this to my sister who is planning a trip to VA to look in graveyards and old church records. She might be able to find something.
My mother's side includes Clark's in VA.I'm a descendant of William Clark of Clark's Mountain in Orange County and the Elder John Clark.
Genealogy - Getting to know your Heritage.Wow, thanks for that link! I had been stuck on my paternal grandmother at Ancestry, but this site took her family all the way back to 1720 in the blink of an eye. Ancestry's link included a name change that just couldn't be supported by any documentation, and it appears, they are wrong. Additionally, I found a photo of my grandfather who was born in 1885.
This Thread is posted for discussion of Genealogy or the study of one's Heritage.
I personally think it to be one of the most important undertakings one can engage in and besides that I LOVE it!
Free accounts available at http://myheritage.com
Wow, thanks for that link! I had been stuck on my paternal grandmother at Ancestry, but this site took her family all the way back to 1720 in the blink of an eye. Ancestry's link included a name change that just couldn't be supported by any documentation, and it appears, they are wrong. Additionally, I found a photo of my grandfather who was born in 1885.
That's cool, t_s. I'm becoming more persuaded to do the DNA test after reading accounts like that.As my Mormon uncle told me, interest in genealogy is the "spirit of Elijah." Kinship, family.
My sister did a DNA test with Ancestry.com and has been getting a steady stream of suggested related people.
In each case, the person is found to be indeed related.
One of the latest helped a woman and her daughter. The woman was adopted in Winnepeg, and lived her life with sealed records, and no knowledge of her birth family whatsoever.
But those records were recently unsealed but all she learned was the surname of a birth -parent, and Winnepeg.
DNA indicated relationship to us. Sure enough, they were both thrilled. The now know the story of those ancestors, where they originated and where they wound up.
Our ancestors were part of the group from Smaland, Sweden that came to Chisago Lakes, Minnesota in the 1850s-60s. My ancestor went next to Dakota Territory. Hers to Manitoba.
The mother (now age 73) now lives in White Horse, Yukon Territory, and her daughter lives in Grand Prairie,, Alberta.
Our common ancestor was Jonas Peter Falk, born 1793 died 1881 and buried in Center City, Minnesota
(https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/find-a-grave-prod/photos/2008/181/27929169_121487295256.jpg)
That's cool, t_s. I'm becoming more persuaded to do the DNA test after reading accounts like that.
My sister did a DNA test with Ancestry.com and has been getting a steady stream of suggested related people.
In each case, the person is found to be indeed related.
One of the latest helped a woman and her daughter. The woman was adopted in Winnepeg, and lived her life with sealed records, and no knowledge of her birth family whatsoever.
But those records were recently unsealed but all she learned was the surname of a birth -parent, and Winnepeg.
DNA indicated relationship to us. Sure enough, they were both thrilled. The now know the story of those ancestors, where they originated and where they wound up.
Our ancestors were part of the group from Smaland, Sweden that came to Chisago Lakes, Minnesota in the 1850s-60s. My ancestor went next to Dakota Territory. Hers to Manitoba.
The mother (now age 73) now lives in White Horse, Yukon Territory, and her daughter lives in Grand Prairie,, Alberta.
Our common ancestor was Jonas Peter Falk, born 1793 died 1881 and buried in Center City, Minnesota
(https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/find-a-grave-prod/photos/2008/181/27929169_121487295256.jpg)
In this case though, the woman wanted to see what DNA might reveal.
I've thought about doing this because I'm adopted and my birth records are sealed tighter than anything. At one point in my life I even went to court to have them unsealed to no avail.
Now, I just don't care anymore. I know the blue eyes had to come from some common European ancestor.,but I'm beyond caring. The records must be sealed for a reason, so be it. I'm a mutt.
How good are the DNA test? Which is better?
Extremely accurate.. IMHO FTDNA IS the best of the lot.
FTDNA- More technically astute
Ancestry- Better tools to find matches
I sue both
My wife did both FTDNA and 23 & Me tests. We found a bunch of known relatives on 23 & Me. We haven't been able to confirm any matches on FTDNA. I believe that, between the two, there are many more people on 23 & Me.
Are they expensive?
I personally think it to be one of the most important undertakings one can engage in and besides that I LOVE it!
You don't have any from the Normandy region of France per chance? I have a couple of Hugoenot ancestors from there that ultimately trace back to Norway and Sweden.
This is an FYI...
If you want search your family for free go to https://familysearch.org/ (very neat site)
Also check this site out: https://relativefinder.org/
The only brick wall that I'm having is with the my one of my Great Grandfather.
Now I need to learn how to gather the required documenting records.
My son did the 23 and me, he promised to send me the results. Still waiting.
Yes, it is a very useful site (family search) but as I tell my genealogy class........ Please be careful..... it is riddled with errors.
PM me with some details, and maybe I can help.
I'm careful as well.. I trust ancestry more than I do that site.
Same here, as there is enough indexed and scanned info, to provided enough documentation in any cases.
the ability to link those references and documents to individuals and trees helps tremendously in separating the creme from the curds.
Having the ability to see scanned documents of ancestor vital records from England 400 years ago is beyond cool.
OTOH as Ancestry has become a behemoth and a monopolization of the on-line aspects of the hobby, there are several things they have done to anger me.
(1) Abandoning the FTM (Family Tree Maker) Program. This is their way to force the genealogical community to manage their trees/data through their system (cloud). Disgusting.
(2) If you have noticed Ancestry is getting ready to tinker (screw up probably) Find A Grave. F-A-G was probably the most innovative and near thing to come out the genealogy field in the past 15 years. It has a lot of info, grave pictures, and data, that wasn't found anywhere else. Mark my words, within 5 years Ancestry will find a way to charge customers for this, and screw over the multitude of people who contributed to this fine program.
I noticed that as well. It started out good, but in the end it is going to get worse.. They are going to ruin it for a lot of people.
My main beef with ancestry.com is that I have pay extra just to view international records.
I'm careful as well.. I trust ancestry more than I do that site.
A great deal of Ancestry, is the same as familysearch.org. As in the same data, from the same original sources.
About 20 years ago, in the early days of this hobby for me, research was done via books, micro-film, micro-fiche, and CD's.
The AF filing (LDS' pre-nomenclature prior to familysearch.org) is absolutely riddled with errors. In my early naivety, I took the bait and probably wasted 100-200 research hours barking up the wrong tree on a couple lines. We learn from our early mistakes.
Yes, it is a very useful site (family search) but as I tell my genealogy class........ Please be careful..... it is riddled with errors.
Well, I finally solved the last riddle of my family. My ancestors came from Wales and if I read the records right I have some Welsh royalty ancestors (way before England conquered Wales).
(http://www.familycrestuk.com/communities/0/004/009/310/260//images/4569501661.jpg)
My friend just told me that her mother, who had been adopted, just got a DNA match and has possibly found her father.
About 20 years ago, in the early days of this hobby for me, research was done via books, micro-film, micro-fiche, and CD's.That's how my husband researched his family history about 25-30 years ago: census records, immigration papers, going to the county clerk's office for marriage records, etc. The internet may make it easier, but you're right about the possibility of inaccuracy.
My friend just told me that her mother, who had been adopted, just got a DNA match and has possibly found her father.My sister tested DNA with Ancestry DNA, and got a contact with a woman living in White Horse, Yukon Territory.
My genealogy is limited to Sweden and the British Isles. Therefore I just ordered the test kit, from the British firm named "Living DNA."
I selected them, since they claim to have the most detailed breakdown of the British and Ireland.
I also selected them because they have a sale for just $99.00+$9.95 shipping to give all three mains tests.
Y-DNA (male line)
Mt-DNA (female line)
Autosomal DNA (ancestral breakdown)
I previously wasted money on a deceptive advertisement for AncestryByDNA that gave only a "Europe" result for locations. Groupon facilitated their ripoff. Buyer beware, with Groupon.
I'm afraid to do this kind of thing because we had a different mailman when I was born.
Serious genealogy is not for the faint of heart.
I have learned of my blood connection to scoundrels, outlaws and pious cruel Puritan preachers.
But mostly great people. The kind that took risks, like one guy named Washington George Matthes, who went to California via Cape Horn during the Gold Rush, failed to get rich, and ambled back to New England--before heading West again to Minnesota soon thereafter.
I bit the bullet and bought a DNA kit at Walgreens for $39.99
It's totally thrills free, just maternal and paternal no other generations but considering I'm adopted and know nothing other than "European" this might be of interest.
I teach genealogy classes, and volunteer at our library, helping patrons find their ancestry through the tools and resources that we have.
I have had close to 10 patrons get downright angry at me for what was found. Some include
(1) The topic of race,
(2) Adoption or other census facts showing that an ancestor was not a birth parent
(3) Occupation did not match famiy lore.
(4) Origin
I've help find three their birth parents, though I am very hesitant due to possible implications there.
But it is all worthwhile when the joy provided to 100's who have found their roots. Those tears are worth more than gold.
I teach genealogy classes, and volunteer at our library, helping patrons find their ancestry through the tools and resources that we have.
I have had close to 10 patrons get downright angry at me for what was found. Some include
(1) The topic of race,
(2) Adoption or other census facts showing that an ancestor was not a birth parent
(3) Occupation did not match famiy lore.
(4) Origin
I've help find three their birth parents, though I am very hesitant due to possible implications there.
But it is all worthwhile when the joy provided to 100's who have found their roots. Those tears are worth more than gold.
I took advantage of ancestry-com's DNA kit offer and am awaiting my results. My question is whether I start filling out my family tree, will that information be used by ancestry's owners to "baptize the dead"?One of the most frustrating things in the Ancestry DNA is all of the other people who also did the test that have no trees associated, yet says they are cousins. How does one know if there is no tree information?
The worst thing about ancestry (it appears to me) is that they dangle tidbits of information about your family, but you have to join up for an extended period to see whether or not it's even relevant.
One of the most frustrating things in the Ancestry DNA is all of the other people who also did the test that have no trees associated, yet says they are cousins. How does one know if there is no tree information?
I see that 23 & Me has a "Thanksgiving Family Offer" through Nov 23, 2017: $49/kit for 2 or more kits (Ancestry Service)
https://www.23andme.com/ (https://www.23andme.com/)
I'm seriously thinking of doing an dna test..
@Bigun
Thoughts?
http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-2522-inside-shady-world-dna-testing-companies.html (http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-2522-inside-shady-world-dna-testing-companies.html)
@Bigun
Thoughts?
http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-2522-inside-shady-world-dna-testing-companies.html (http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-2522-inside-shady-world-dna-testing-companies.html)
@Bigun
Thoughts?
http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-2522-inside-shady-world-dna-testing-companies.html (http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-2522-inside-shady-world-dna-testing-companies.html)
@Suppressed
This is one of the BIG reasons I only recommend Family Tree DNA. https://www.familytreedna.com/ (https://www.familytreedna.com/) They are relatively local to me (In Houston) and have the best reputation in the business or so I'm told by the geneticists I'm personally acquainted with one of whom taught genetics at our local University for many years.
I've also been told by experts that some of the other firms have been known to employ people not qualified to do the testing properly.
The big problems of late have all been with European firms and involve people didling with results for obvious political reasons. They got caught so someone is obviously watching even there.
They are the best technically, but their on-line tools for finding matches sucks. I use both FTDNA and Ancestry.
I got my Ancestry.com DNA results. No "native American" at all, despite family lore that my great-great-great-great grandpa's wife was of that ethnicity. So that's something I have in common with Sen. Lizzy Warren, anyway. We're both white bread. :pondering:
Yeah, me heap disappointed.
Huh.
(https://safr.kingfeatures.com/idn/cnfeed/zone/js/content.php?file=aHR0cDovL3NhZnIua2luZ2ZlYXR1cmVzLmNvbS9CaXphcnJvLzIwMTQvMDkvQml6YXJyb19wLjIwMTQwOTE3XzYxNi5naWY=)
If anyone is interested in personal Genealogy Software, the best there is (Roots Magic) is running a GREAT Holiday special right now!
http://www.rootsmagic.com/holidayoffer/?mc_cid=d749bca75a&mc_eid=2f25b9b5ee (http://www.rootsmagic.com/holidayoffer/?mc_cid=d749bca75a&mc_eid=2f25b9b5ee)
Why do you say they're the best, @Bigun?
I used to use Legacy because it had great source tracking, then Family Tree Maker for output. I'm wondering whether I'd like this one better.
I grew up in the New Orleans sewers. My mother was an alligator, and my father was a possum. I grew up the hard way. You know, like all possum/alligator people grow up. I learned to survive.
Man, this crawdaddy, he was so close and so good to eat. I couldn't grab him in enough time. I tried! I grabbed him! The sewer wash just took him away. My daddy never forgave me for that. I will take it to my grave.
Never go to the family reunions. Not concerned with who eats whom. Not my problem. Anymore.....
That explains a lot.@240B
How DNA Testing Botched My Family's Heritage, and Probably Yours, Too
Gizmodo
Kristen V. Brown
Jan. 16, 2018
My grandfather was caramel-skinned with black eyes and thick, dark hair, and until he discovered that he was adopted, he had no reason to suspect that he was not the son of two poor Mexicans as he’d always been told. When he found his adoption papers, according to family lore, he pestered the nuns at the Dallas orphanage where he had lived as an infant for the name of his birth mother. Name in hand, at 10 years old, he hopped a bus to Pennsylvania, met his birth mother, and found out that he was actually Syrian.
At least that’s what we thought until my Aunt Cat mailed a tube of her spit in to AncestryDNA.
More... https://gizmodo.com/how-dna-testing-botched-my-familys-heritage-and-probab-1820932637
Thanks for posting this @endicom
As someone who is adopted and knows next to nothing about bio parents, I've been thinking about this a lot since my dad died. But I've come to the conclusion it would be sort of like oedipus. It's better not to know.
Thanks for posting this @endicom As someone who is adopted and knows next to nothing about bio parents, I've been thinking about this a lot since my dad died. But I've come to the conclusion it would be sort of like oedipus. It's better not to know.@Freya
Thanks for posting this @endicom
As someone who is adopted and knows next to nothing about bio parents, I've been thinking about this a lot since my dad died. But I've come to the conclusion it would be sort of like oedipus. It's better not to know.
@truth_seeker
Wow!
I thought I was on this thread, but I can't find any posts from me. It may have been when I first came here, and just about lost everything I posted.
I did have my DNA spit test done by Ancestry.com. I sort of knew what my results would be because I have an original family tree that was handwritten by my grandmother on my mom's side. Interesting.
My dad's side is far more difficult, although it should be easier. I have gone back to my great grandfather through Ancestry.com.
I paid for all European, American and Newspapers for about two years, but I got lazy. I am still some sort of a member there, but they can so easily block things from you when you are in the mood to play with your ancestry.
Ancestry.com wants you to put everything you have on Facebook. I have never been a Facebook member, and probably will never be a member on that site because I just don't like that place.
I think at some point in time, I will have Ancestry.com just do the whole thing for me. It is such tedious work, but well worth it if you find something new.
I have read this whole thread, and, thank you, @Bigun for starting this thread. I might just go to one of the other places.
Oh, @Freya right now Ancestry is doing the spit DNA test for $69. It is pretty good. They tell you where your heritage is with only about 2% missing.
I am 100% Northern European. No famous anyone pops up. LOL!
My ancestry might include King Olaf or Ragnar Lothbrook, but most likely I'm only related to the famous comedy team, Sven and Ollie. :dx1:
I always wanted to trace mine back to the Sinclair(e) family from Scotland.
I honestly thought I was about 40% Danish, 40% Scottish and 20% Irish. Nope, I don't have it in front of me, but I am 57% Irish, 23% Danish and 18% English, which is Scottish, I guess.
The surnames in my family are all Scottish and Danish. Go figure.
Sven and Ollie? LOL!
Danish? Is Ancestry breaking that out of the Scandinavian sub group? They haven't for me yet.
I always wanted to trace mine back to the Sinclair(e) family from Scotland.
I honestly thought I was about 40% Danish, 40% Scottish and 20% Irish. Nope, I don't have it in front of me, but I am 57% Irish, 23% Danish and 18% English, which is Scottish, I guess.
The surnames in my family are all Scottish and Danish. Go figure.
Sven and Ollie? LOL!
Yes, it said "Danish." No sub group for English/Scottish, though.
When a DNA company "predicts" the location of origin, it can vary widely.
Take a Norse ancestor ("Anders") from 1100 years ago, that migrated from Norway to England. His body is dug up in England, 2010, his DNA tested, etc. Anders' brother is dug up in Norway, and also tested.
Your DNA is tested, and certain characteristic match with Anders' DNA.
Firm #1 "predicts" your origin to be England (because Anders DNA is in their database)
Firm #2 "predicts" your origin to be Scandinavia (because Anders' brother's DNA is in their database; or alternatively because they classify Anders as Scandinavian))
So keep this and similar situation in mind, regarding the accuracy or "origins," predictions.
I am NOT saying the firms' methods and results are bogus. I AM stating this aspect of DNA is very, very new. Those closest to it know that fact, the best.
You must have gotten a more specific report than I got. Was it from Ancestry.com?
Here's a couple of mine:
Frances Cooke 9th Great Grandfather
Edward Doty 9th Great Grandfather
But I figured my Viking ancestors got around, so none of that was surprising. ^-^
I did the Family Tree DNA test.
It shows me as:
British Isles46%
East Europe< 2%
Finland< 2%
Scandinavian13%
West and Central Europe38%
I've also found, via their matching, a 3rd Cousin 1X removed. I expanded my tree to include him.
I have luckily been able to trace pretty much (90%) of all my ancestry 1600's- 1700's to Anglo immigrants. So I was pretty surprised that mine showed 18% Scandinavian when almost all my surnames are English-Scottish - Welsh- Irish extraction.
Vikings were more prevalent than I thought.
Using a dna sample from www.livingdna.com (http://www.livingdna.com)
mt-DNA = U5a1a1c (motherline-very ancient)
(https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/mtDNA-U5-map.png)
Y-DNA = I1a1b (fatherline-very ancient)
(https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_I1.gif)
Autosomal DNA Origins per www.livingdna.com (http://www.livingdna.com) (very recent British Isles Centric)
Great Britain/Ireland 91%
North/West Europe 4%
Europe East 3%
Europe South 2%
Autosomal DNA Origins per www.gedmatch.com (http://www.gedmatch.com) Eurogenes various algorithms (more ancient)
North Atlantic 60.31 (Britain, Ireland, Germany, France)
South Baltic 15.55 (Scandinavia)
Volga-Ural 5.46 (Russia/Ukraine- Swedish Scandinavians went into this region apparently brought back women)
subtotal about 82%
Mediterranean 11.60 (Northern Italy, Basque, Spain, Portugal - probably tied to Celtiberians that migrated into Britain/Ireland)
Caucasus 5.79 (SE Europe big ?)
(One very big variable the DNA just hint at, is the migration for Ice Age advances, retreats--if the DNA origin methodology has samples which are that ancient)
I tell ya....... my people went EVERYWHERE. :laugh:
Seriously - the Swedish Vikings went east to present day Russia, and many settled there. The Norwegian Vikings went west and clearly spread their seed all over Great Britain as they went.
It's not surprising that most people with European ancestry have some Scandinavian in the mix.
I seriously need to go back farther with my ancestry. I know that everyone was living in Sweden, or one grandmother in the Swedish part of Finland, as far back as the 18th century, but I haven't gone back any farther than that, and need to do that.
(My brown eyes came from somewhere! LOL!)
@catfish1957
@Bigun
There are so many DNA dot coms out there. I want to do them all just for the fun of it. I wonder if any really contradict each other?
I think i will start with yours, Bigun, the MyHeritage.com.
Truth, yours is outrageous! Amazing what you can find out from these, I suspect, scientists. Ice Age? Holy Moley!
:thud:
My ancestry might include King Olaf or Ragnar Lothbrook, but most likely I'm only related to the famous comedy team, Sven and Ollie. :dx1:
My Viking ancestry came way when they raped and pillaged the UK many moons ago.
Yeah............. that happened to a lot of you British Isle folks. (I'm quite sure my ancestors were at home farming, so I don't think we're related. ^-^ )
@Slip18
I still think the best of the lot is http://www.FTDNA.com (http://www.FTDNA.com)
I spread my DNA everywhere I could, back when I was a kid....
@Slip18
I still think the best of the lot is http://www.FTDNA.com (http://www.FTDNA.com)
These are the three areas you can have tested at FTDNA:
Family Finder
Y-DNA
mtDNA
So being a female of this wonderful species, would I have to use one of my brothers to do the Y-DNA and the mtDNA?
I will do the Family Finder within the next few days. Too much fun going on here! LOL!
:beer:
All I know is that my ancestors came from Wales, Scotland, England, N Ireland, Ireland, and Germany. But I do have a very distant Italian Ancestor who fought with William when he invaded England.
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/4f/4a/2e/4f4a2e4a679431ade93e1259e8c0597d.jpg)
This one!@Slip 18
:laugh:
@Slip 18
I have seen that one in several variations, showing the routes Vikings took in their "golden era."
Danes to England, Ireland, France etc. Norwegians to Iceland, Greenland, America, plus to England, Ireland, France etc.
And Norse all around into the Atlantic route into the Mediterranean, to Italy for instance. (Relatives of William the Conqueror ruling southern Italy for generations)
Finally Swedes eastward into Russia and beyond, giving rise to the Kievan Rus culture.
(http://travelquaz.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/bbc-primary-history-vikings-trade-and-exploration.jpg)
and
(http://travelquaz.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/scandinavia-viking-routes-jpg.jpg)
@Slip18
Here's a link that explains the "removed" thing genealogy buffs must deal with.
https://www.simplemost.com/difference-second-cousins-cousins-removed/?utm_campaign=geek&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=partner&utm_partner=geek (https://www.simplemost.com/difference-second-cousins-cousins-removed/?utm_campaign=geek&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=partner&utm_partner=geek)
@To-Whose-Benefit?
You might find these Scandinavian discussions interesting.
They read "Halfdan Carved These Runes" (Halfdan means half-Dane)
I tell ya....... my people went EVERYWHERE. :laugh:
Seriously - the Swedish Vikings went east to present day Russia, and many settled there. The Norwegian Vikings went west and clearly spread their seed all over Great Britain as they went.
It's not surprising that most people with European ancestry have some Scandinavian in the mix.
I seriously need to go back farther with my ancestry. I know that everyone was living in Sweden, or one grandmother in the Swedish part of Finland, as far back as the 18th century, but I haven't gone back any farther than that, and need to do that.
(My brown eyes came from somewhere! LOL!)
@catfish1957
@musiclady
It was more than just being invaded and over run by those damn Northerners that kept the pot boiling between the Angles/Saxons and the Norse.
One of the oldest, and bitterest points of contention in all human history.
The women in the British Isles preferred the Viking men to their own, because the Vikings Smelled Better!
It was too Cold in Scandinavia to live covered in dried sweat.
Vikings knew it would kill them, so they bathed and steamed themselves more often.
888high58888
@Slip18 and anyone else who might be interested.
FTDNA is having a St. Patrick's day special. Family finder kit for $59.00.
https://www.familytreedna.com/products/family-finder?utm_source=Family+Tree+DNA&utm_campaign=15231ca12b-st_paddy_sale_noff&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b0f8841478-15231ca12b-110538557 (https://www.familytreedna.com/products/family-finder?utm_source=Family+Tree+DNA&utm_campaign=15231ca12b-st_paddy_sale_noff&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b0f8841478-15231ca12b-110538557)
@Bigun
That was pretty confusing for me in there. I am not ready for all the relatives yet. I am going to get my DNA done by them. It will be interesting to see if Ancestry's is different.
I have so many relatives on my mom's side. Every family in the early 1900s had ten kids or more. Amazing feat unto itself, I would say. LOL!
@Slip18
LOL! I hear ya!
BTW, the deal ends Sunday.
On my phone.
Up to 40 percent of DNA results from consumer genetic tests might be bogus
https://www.technologyreview.com/the-download/610688/up-to-40-of-results-from-consumer-dna-tests-might-be-bogus/ (https://www.technologyreview.com/the-download/610688/up-to-40-of-results-from-consumer-dna-tests-might-be-bogus/)
@Suppressed
I think I remember addressing this, at least to some degree, a few weeks ago here.
@Bigun
That was pretty confusing for me in there. I am not ready for all the relatives yet. I am going to get my DNA done by them. It will be interesting to see if Ancestry's is different.
I have so many relatives on my mom's side. Every family in the early 1900s had ten kids or more. Amazing feat unto itself, I would say. LOL!
I did the Family Matches test from Family Tree. They show over 4000 matches for me. I have been contacted three times about possible family connections. The first, he turned out to be my third Cousin via a 3rd Great Grandfather born 1803. The Second, it appears we are connected via a 3rd Great Grandfather born 1769. The Third, it looks liked we are connected via a 4th Great Grandfather, born 1736. Oh, and it also said I was matched with my son who had his DNA tested before me.
My sister and I have done three tests by three companies.
All of them confirmed paper family tree pedigrees, as well as relative matches.
It is a very new science, but I have no reason to challenge the "truthfulness" of the results.
Interpreting results, with origin estimates, is different. Before making a lot from origins, dig in and understand the method, what it is etc.
@truth_seeker
That has been my experience as well. I used Family Tree, My Heritage, and Ancestry. and they all agree right down the line. Confirmed what we had on paper long ago.
My descent numbers were pretty close too. In fact, if users read the fine print, cpmpanies state that there are ranges involved They are also are very up front to state these are approximations. Why some Briefers want to sling mud at what has become a good genealogical tool is beyond me.
The eleven families (62 individuals) from the Mattstall area ... had about twenty miles to go to reach the Rhine river. Here they got on a boat going to Rotterdam, Holland—about 350 miles. They left Mattstall about the end of April. Rotterdam would be reached by the middle of May.White privilege, baby!
The first task was to locate the ship SAMUEL and its master. Hugh Percy. They checked in and stored their luggage in the hold. They bought butter, cheese, and smoked fish. The 291 passengers set sail for Deal, England, near Dover. Here they took on more provisions and crewmembers.
The ship was about 140 x 30 x 15. Sleeping quarters were below deck—for families, for single men, for single women. Each person had a space about 6 x 2 feet, with 5 feet for headroom. There was little privacy. The crewmembers had their own quarters. There was a cabin for the captain. He had promised to supply water, flour, some dried meat and peas, as well as cheese. It took a lot of food to feed 291 people plus crew for three months. On the voyage there would be births, deaths, and illnesses. Likely Christina Ensminger and Ursula Haller were among the children who died.
The trip was hardest on the very young. There was no milk or fruit or green vegetables. It was hard for the old folks, too. ...
Daily prayers were held, with church services on Sundays. The men walked on deck. The women cooked and cleaned and tried to keep the little ones from falling overboard. The older children were a great help. The old told stories to the young. Soon they were out on the broad Atlantic. The captain said the 4000-mile trip to Philadelphia would take about three months, if the winds were favorable. The ship would go south about 1000 miles to the Canaries, then pick up trade winds to carry it across the Atlantic.
Wind and rainstorms made the going rough. The families took turns cooking on the iron grates. At night the cries of the young, the moans of the ill, the groans of the old could be heard. When the wind roared, the boat creaked, the waves splashed. Then one day land was sighted – America – green fields and houses.
Friday morning, August 17th, the ship anchored at Philadelphia. This was the first of seven ships to arrive in 1733. The captain turned in his list of 90 names—men over 16. The men had to go to the courthouse and take the oath of allegiance and the oath of abjuration—denying the right of a Pretender.
After taking my Family Finder autosomal DNA test, I saw they had more and more and more tests. So I took a Y-DNA test and it came back that I belonged to this Clan, R-M269. But then I saw that they only predicted I belonged. I thought it must be like the gang bangers that roam the neighborhood. What kinda test was I to go through to prove I belong in their Clan? Then I discovered it was kinda like extortion. It was called another kinda test though. So I thought, why not? I've not been much of a joiner. Joined the NAVY. Joined the NRA. Joined this fine place. So why not join a Clan? So I paid the extortion money and waited patiently for my Clan acceptance. I got my results a couple days ago. And Clan R-M269 kicked me out! They threw me out and down to a Lower Class Clan called R-S6881. I was told though that they accepted me and I didn't have to prove I belonged. I'll have to find out where the Clan meetings are. That Clan name, R-S6881 sure don't roll off your tongue worth a damn.
They sure don't name Clans like they did in the ole days.
I hope there's more explanation on that....
I'll let you know after I attend my first Clan-R-S6881 meeting.
So, @Elderberry, where do you go to get that type of DNA test?
I'm a member of Clan I-M170. Haplogroup I represents one of the first peoples in Europe.
Does the Ancestry.com test tell that?
Does the Ancestry.com test tell that?
No, but I found that on this site, it shows one how to get that information.
Updated Method to get YDNA haplogroup from AncestryDNA results
http://www.geneticgenealogist.net/2017/08/updated-method-to-get-ydna-haplogroup.html (http://www.geneticgenealogist.net/2017/08/updated-method-to-get-ydna-haplogroup.html)
I'll let you know after I attend my first Clan-R-S6881 meeting.
FTDNA has driven down the genome so precisely, it is crazy. After taking "Big Y" my(sub-sub-etc.) haplogroup now has 3 people in it.
Golden State Killer caught using relative's DNA from genealogy websites, prosecutors say
My understanding is this guy was fingered because his daughter (?) used an "Open source" DNA website. Once they found out who he was, they raided his trash to get a direct sample and nailed him. Seems to me DNA profiles are ll over the place out there....Don't spit (on the sidewalk), momma always said.... A cigarette butt, soda can/straw, etc. can provide enough sample. The average household trash would be a gold mine.
Saw the news on this too last week. Very very ambivalent on the issue.Yeah, I don't know all of the particulars of this case, but it certainly should give any of us pause who have sent in DNA samples. I hate to sound paranoid, but doesn't it appear the gov't can get your DNA for whatever purpose it might want*, not just nabbing rapists.
One side of me likes it in that it can be used to take some really bad folks off the street.
Then there is another side that screams using my dna for what I did not intend is a serious breach of my privacy..
Anyone else want to weigh in?
Saw the news on this too last week. Very very ambivalent on the issue.
One side of me likes it in that it can be used to take some really bad folks off the street.
Then there is another side that screams using my dna for what I did not intend is a serious breach of my privacy..
Anyone else want to weigh in?
Yeah, I don't know all of the particulars of this case, but it certainly should give any of us pause who have sent in DNA samples. I hate to sound paranoid, but doesn't it appear the gov't can get your DNA for whatever purpose it might want*, not just nabbing rapists.
*That's the point where I'm trying not to don the :tinfoil:
Maybe not so tinfoil.
I sent my Scandinavian DNA in to Ancestry.com.
I think maybe I should keep my nose clean. ^-^
You're a musician.
That qualifies you as a subversive, a Counter Revolutionary, A Reactionary, in some circles. :seeya:
FTDNA has driven down the genome so precisely, it is crazy. After taking "Big Y" my(sub-sub-etc.) haplogroup now has 3 people in it.
... The main commerical companies all claim that they will not surrender their clients' DNA test results to the police without a proper warrant. So should regular citizens be concerned about how the cops used DNA here?The Golden State Killer and Your Genetic Privacy (http://reason.com/blog/2018/04/27/the-golden-state-killer-and-your-genetic)
In this case, probably not. The police reportedly drew on the open-source GEDmatch service, which does not test DNA but allows users searching for relatives to them to upload the results of such tests from other companies. Apparently, a relative or two of DeAngelo had submitted test results to GEDmatch. This familial genetic link led the police to suspect DeAngelo. The police directly connected DeAngelo to the murders and rapes by matching old crime scene DNA to his obtained from some item(s) he had recently discarded in public. ...
My sister and gave me a gift certificate for 23andme for Mother's Day.
I really don't want to use it. Sure, she showed me her print out for her bio family. I still think it's opening a can of worms I don't want to open.
This was for their deluxe package.
Anyone here familiar with this company?
Just booked the airline and first-night hotel for a 10-day trip in September to France and Germany to visit the hometowns of my great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents (Ensminger) of my father's paternal lineage and great-great-great-great-great-great (?) grandparents (Mumma/Mumaw) of my mother's paternal lineage. Whew! Mattstall, France, and Grosskarlbach, Germany, here we come!
Just booked the airline and first-night hotel for a 10-day trip in September to France and Germany to visit the hometowns of my great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents (Ensminger) of my father's paternal lineage and great-great-great-great-great-great (?) grandparents (Mumma/Mumaw) of my mother's paternal lineage. Whew! Mattstall, France, and Grosskarlbach, Germany, here we come!
Just booked the airline and first-night hotel for a 10-day trip in September to France and Germany to visit the hometowns of my great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents (Ensminger) of my father's paternal lineage and great-great-great-great-great-great (?) grandparents (Mumma/Mumaw) of my mother's paternal lineage. Whew! Mattstall, France, and Grosskarlbach, Germany, here we come!
Yes, now I need to dust off my meagre French and German language skills to be able to ask someone if they know any Ensmingers or Mummas still living there.
We'll fly into Frankfurt and drive to Grosskarlbach, which is not too far, just west of Mannheim and Worms. When we get to France, we'll visit Mattstall, which doesn't actually exist anymore, but is near Lembach, northwest of Strasbourg.
Yes, but we'll be just west of there, in the Rhineland-Palatinate state. We'll spend most of our time in the Alsace, though. I visited Strasbourg many years ago, but Mr. M never has, and we'd also like to explore some Maginot Line-related sites and wine villages.
Is that anywhere near Baden-Württemberg?
Yes, but we'll be just west of there, in the Rhineland-Palatinate state. We'll spend most of our time in the Alsace, though. I visited Strasbourg many years ago, but Mr. M never has, and we'd also like to explore some Maginot Line-related sites and wine villages.
One of Mr. M's buddies, on hearing of our planned trip, mentioned he has ancestors from the Alsace and will be sending details. Looks like we may add another destination, in order to take some photos for him. Fortunately, I've left made the itinerary and plans more flexible than on past trips.
One of Mr. M's buddies, on hearing of our planned trip, mentioned he has ancestors from the Alsace and will be sending details. Looks like we may add another destination, in order to take some photos for him. Fortunately, I've left made the itinerary and plans more flexible than on past trips.
Court Rules Copying Photos Found on Internet is Fair Use
Dick Eastman · July 5, 2018 · Legal Affairs
This ruling will affect many genealogists who are building or are maintaining web sites:
A Virginia federal court has made a decision that photographers won’t be happy to hear: the court ruled that finding a photo on the Internet and then using it without permission on a commercial website can be considered fair use. ... More (https://blog.eogn.com/2018/07/05/court-rules-copying-photos-found-on-internet-is-fair-use/)
This is a very misleading title and article. Whoever wrote that quote obviously is clueless about this case. This is NOT what the court ruled. The court ruled, that a highly cropped version of a single photograph, which had been previously published online without any copyright information, passed all four tests of fair use. It did not rule that all, most, many, or any other quantity of photographs may be used by anyone, anywhere, for any purpose.
All that said, most people can use photographs found on the Internet, or anywhere, for limited non-commercial purposes fairly without paying fees. This is not advice, as it’s dangerous, risky, and potentially economically devastating to just use photos willy nilly. Fair use is a DEFENSE. You have to prove fair use, and that can be costly. Also not all nations have fair-use defenses to copyright. If you violate the copyright of some French or German photographer, you could be in real trouble.
This article is everything wrong with the common (mis)understanding of copyright by the general population, and some poor soul will find out the hard and expensive way due to irresponsible journalism like this. PS that great snapshot you took of great-grandma isn’t going to get much protection against use and fair use claims, unless you’re selling them at a good clip, and spent the $100+ to file a copyright on it. That old picture of great-grandpa from 1910 is public domain, so you aren’t going to get royalties on that, and I bet you don’t own whatever original copyright you did have.
Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt. It’s a good way to drive traffic to a website, but bad at providing real, factual, and usable information to the community.
ancestry.com currently has DNA testing on sale, FYI.
I don't know if any has tried this site yet or not, check out MyHeritage it is a decent site.
Also, I met someone from Germany (Baden-Württemberg) who is a distant relative of mine.
I have an account there but find the site too hard to navigate. Much prefer Ancestry or Family Search.
I have an account there but find the site too hard to navigate. Much prefer Ancestry or Family Search.
Twins get some 'mystifying' results when they put 5 DNA ancestry kits to the testLink, please? I'd like to read the whole thing.
Chief geneticist at a popular ancestry company admits it's 'kind of a science and an art'
Charlsie Agro, Luke Denne · CBC News · Posted: Jan 18, 2019 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: January 18
snip
One set of identical twins, two different ancestry profiles.
At least that's the suggestion from one of the world's largest ancestry DNA testing companies.
Last spring, Marketplace host Charlsie Agro and her twin sister, Carly, bought home kits from AncestryDNA, MyHeritage, 23andMe, FamilyTreeDNA and Living DNA, and mailed samples of their DNA to each company for analysis.
snip
My sister and I have considered this for awhile. My results from two compnies. My mother and her, with Ancestry.
Anyway this article hints at the answer; the origin redictions, are subject to several variables, not the least of which is it id fairly new science.
One company I tested with is "Living DNA," a British-centric firm. To them most everything is British.
I've been going nuts on ancestry lately, and just learned yesterday my 8x great grandmother was executed in Salem, Mass., in 1692 after her conviction on witchcraft charges! Yikes.
Hair tagged as polymath’s in US collection to be tested against remains in French grave
Two Italian experts are set to perform a DNA test on a lock of hair that they say might have belonged to Leonardo da Vinci.
The hair strand was found in a private collection in the US and will go on display for the first time at the Ideale Leonardo da Vinci museum in Vinci (the Tuscan town where the artist was born), from 2 May, the 500th anniversary of the artist’s death.
“We found, across the Atlantic, a lock of hair historically tagged ‘Les Cheveux de Leonardo da Vinci’ and this extraordinary relic will allow us to proceed in the quest to carry out research on Da Vinci’s DNA,†said Alessandro Vezzosi, the director of the museum and Agnese Sabato, president of the Leonardo da Vinci Heritage Foundation in a statement.
The lock will also be presented at a press conference at Leonardiana library in Vinci on Thursday as year-long celebrations get underway in Italy, France and elsewhere to commemorate the artist.
More at link.
Years ago I spent too much time on Ancestry. One of my ancestors I discovered was my 29th great grandmother, (Lady) Godiva, Countess of Mercia.
Dig enough and you'll never know who you'll come across.
I await the news release, when a major DNA entity announces the Neanderthal content for particular Haplogroups.
http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/species/homo-heidelbergensis (http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/species/homo-heidelbergensis)
Neanderthal Report Basics
The Neanderthal Ancestry report provides information about how much of your ancestry can be traced back to the Neanderthals. The analysis includes the review of over 2,000 genetic variants of known Neanderthal origin that are scattered across the genome.
Neanderthals were a group of ancient humans who lived in Europe and Western Asia, and are the closest evolutionary relatives of modern humans. They went extinct about 40,000 years ago, after living alongside modern humans - Homo sapiens - for thousands of years. As a result, evidence of Neanderthal DNA is now found in traces in nearly all modern humans.
With the Neanderthal Ancestry report, you can view the amount of Neanderthal variants you have compared to all 23andMe customers worldwide.
The Neanderthal counterpart of the human Y chromosome, or male sex chromosome, appears to have died out. Why this happened is up for debate.
Although it’s widely known that modern humans carry traces of Neanderthal DNA, a new international study led by researchers at the Stanford University School of Medicine suggests that Neanderthal Y-chromosome genes disappeared from the human genome long ago.
The study was published April 7 in The American Journal of Human Genetics, in English and in Spanish, and will be available to view for free. The senior author is Carlos Bustamante, PhD, professor of biomedical data science and of genetics at the School of Medicine, and the lead author is Fernando Mendez, PhD, a postdoctoral scholar at Stanford.
The Y chromosome is one of two human sex chromosomes. Unlike the X chromosome, the Y chromosome is passed exclusively from father to son. This is the first study to examine a Neanderthal Y chromosome, Mendez said. Previous studies sequenced DNA from the fossils of Neanderthal women or from mitochondrial DNA, which is passed to children of either sex from their mother.
Other research has shown that the DNA of modern humans is from 2.5 to 4 percent Neanderthal DNA, a legacy of breeding between modern humans and Neanderthals 50,000 years ago. As a result, the team was excited to find that, unlike other kinds of DNA, the Neanderthal Y chromosome DNA was apparently not passed to modern humans during this time.
“We’ve never observed the Neanderthal Y chromosome DNA in any human sample ever tested,†Bustamante said. “That doesn’t prove it’s totally extinct, but it likely is.â€
Why no Neanderthal DNA?
Why is not yet clear. The Neanderthal Y chromosome genes could have simply drifted out of the human gene pool by chance over the millennia. Another possibility, said Mendez, is that Neanderthal Y chromosomes include genes that are incompatible with other human genes, and he and his colleagues have found evidence supporting this idea. Indeed, one of the Y chromosome genes that differ in Neanderthals has previously been implicated in transplant rejection when males donate organs to women.
“The functional nature of the mutations we found,†said Bustamante, “suggests to us that Neanderthal Y chromosome sequences may have played a role in barriers to gene flow, but we need to do experiments to demonstrate this and are working to plan these now.â€
Several Neanderthal Y chromosome genes that differ from those in humans function as part of the immune system. Three are "minor histocompatibility antigens," or H-Y genes, which resemble the HLA antigens that transplant surgeons check to make sure that organ donors and organ recipients have similar immune profiles. Because these Neanderthal antigen genes are on the Y chromosome, they are specific to males.
Theoretically, said Mendez, a woman’s immune system might attack a male fetus carrying Neanderthal H-Y genes. If women consistently miscarried male babies carrying Neanderthal Y chromosomes, that would explain its absence in modern humans. So far this is just a hypothesis, but the immune systems of modern women are known to sometimes react to male offspring when there’s genetic incompatibility.
When did we part ways?
The Y chromosome data also shed new light on the timeline for the divergence of humans and Neanderthals. The human lineage diverged from other apes over several million years, ending as late as 4 million years ago. After the final split from other apes, the human lineage branched into a series of different types of humans, including separate lineages for Neanderthals and what are now modern humans.
Previous estimates based on mitochondrial DNA put the divergence of the human and Neanderthal lineages at between 400,000 and 800,000 years ago. The last common ancestor of Neanderthals and humans — based on the Y chromosome DNA sequenced in the study — is about 550,000 years ago. Scientists believe Neanderthals died out about 40,000 years ago.
Sequencing the Neanderthal Y chromosome may shed further light on the relationship between humans and Neanderthals. One challenge for the research team is to find out whether the Y chromosome Neanderthal gene variants identified were indeed incompatible with human genes.
The data for the study came from public gene sequencing databases. "We did not collect any data for this work," said Mendez. "It was all public data."
Y chromosome genes from Neanderthals likely extinct in modern men
http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2016/04/modern-men-lack-y-chromosome-genes-from-neanderthals.html (http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2016/04/modern-men-lack-y-chromosome-genes-from-neanderthals.html)
Years ago I spent too much time on Ancestry. One of my ancestors I discovered was my 29th great grandmother, (Lady) Godiva, Countess of Mercia.We may well be (distantly) related.
Dig enough and you'll never know who you'll come across.
A former care worker has inherited a £50m country estate after a DNA test proved he was the son of its deceased owner.
Jordan Adlard Rogers, 31, found out his father was the aristocrat Charles Rogers after his death in 2018 and has now moved into the 1,536-acre Penrose estate in Cornwall, which his family has lived in for generations.
“I’m not going to forget where I’ve come from,†Adlard Rogers told CornwallLive. “I’ve been at the point of worrying about the next bill and have had a tough start in life but now I’m here I want to help people.â€
He said he planned to set up a charity to help people living in nearby Porthleven and Helston.
More at link.
I have no idea how accurate it is.
Well roughly June 10th I will find out my DNA results from Ancestry.
If you have your DNA raw data, you can upload it to GedMatch, and run it against various databases (or reference data).
Do you also have extensive "paper" family tree geneology? Pedigree?
Note when you get those Ancestry results, you can also upload your data to Gedmatch.com
I've already loaded to Gedmatch,
If you have your DNA raw data, you can upload it to GedMatch, and run it against various databases (or reference data).
Do you also have extensive "paper" family tree geneology? Pedigree?
Note when you get those Ancestry results, you can also upload your data to Gedmatch.com
DNA is a huge and highly complex subject.
I believe the cousin matches are very solid. Every time my sister and I have received these hints or tips, they turned out to be solid.
You must be very industrious or very lucky in your cousin matches confirmation.
I did my autosomal testing with FTDNA and they show over 5000 matches for me. I have researched and mapped about a dozen so far into my family tree.
Do any of these actually give you a family tree? Or do they just tell you a general region where you might be from?My ancestry.com DNA summary looked like this:
England, Wales & Northwestern EuropeOnce I started inputting the names I already had - grandparents, great-grandparents - the website gave me hints of the research other people already had done. You can see that the ethnicity ranges are quite broad. For example, I know through genealogical research there are Germans and Alsatians on my father's side (already visited a few of their home villages) and am reasonably certain of some Scandinavians. Whether that meanns my "Germanic" roots are 2% or something greater remains to be determined.
Primarily located in: England, Scotland, Wales
Your ethnicity estimate is 84%, but it can range from 77-100%
Ireland & Scotland
Primarily located in: Ireland, Wales, Scotland
Your ethnicity estimate is 14%, but it can range from 0-14%
Germanic Europe
Primarily located in: Germany
Your ethnicity estimate is 2%, but it can range from 0-31%
My ancestry.com DNA summary looked like this:Once I started inputting the names I already had - grandparents, great-grandparents - the website gave me hints of the research other people already had done. You can see that the ethnicity ranges are quite broad. For example, I know through genealogical research there are Germans and Alsatians on my father's side (already visited a few of their home villages) and am reasonably certain of some Scandinavians. Whether that meanns my "Germanic" roots are 2% or something greater remains to be determined.
At ancestry.com, you start creating your own family tree with the names you have. Then you plug in new names and new details as they become available. Interesting thing about my father's side is that I didn't even know his grandparents' names. Before creating the ancestry account I did some research at an area university's library and got the names of great-gf and great-great-gf. Once on ancestry, I went father and found names in both my grandfather's and grandmother's lineage - and discovered that an 8x-great-grandmother was hanged in Salem, Mass., accused of being a witch. :whistle:
Adopted woman found birth parents — and they were famous con artistsFull story at NY Post (https://nypost.com/2019/11/02/adopted-woman-found-birth-parents-and-they-were-famous-con-artists/)
By Isabel Vincent
November 2, 2019
It was the line about her birth mother being “a strong and expert swimmer†that stopped Donna Freed cold.
In 2010, Freed, a London radio journalist, was reading a five-page, bare-bones report that she had obtained about her biological mother from a Manhattan adoption agency. It described the unnamed woman who had given her up as an infant in the vaguest of terms: “A 27-year-old, Caucasian, Jewish, single female†who lived on the Eastern Seaboard and worked at an advertising firm.
Oh, and she was a good swimmer. ...
Well my DNA results on Ancestry was updated. It said that 3% of my DNA came from Sweden. I kinda question the results. Far as I know, I don't have any ancestors from Sweden. Distant yes, when they raided England and the rest of Europe.
Same here with Norway/Sweden. Have spent the past two years via a collaborative effort getting absolutely everything in my tree back to Plantagenet time. Pretty much everyone with a tiny few exceptions are from England, Scotland, and Ireland. Have come to the conclusion that 5%-15% Norway and Sweden origin is for the same reason you state above. Plus no reason to doubt it since Scandavian origin shows up in all three companies I have tested. (Ancestry, FTDNA, and 23/Me)
@catfish1957
@mountaineer
The problem I have with this is the following is that my mothers grandparents came from what used to be the Kingdom of Württemberg. That is why I kinda question it.
That's German, correct? If that's your mother's grandparents, that's only 12.5% of your total genetic makeup. How about the 87.5%. Not really following why you wouldn't think 3% Scandanavian might not have come from other areas.
The underlying science is fine, but the commercial product is less certain.
That is German correct.. Here is how Ancestry DNA broke it down for me:
Ireland & Scotland 53%
England, Wales, & Northwestern Europe (Which includes Normandy and Brittany) 44%
Sweden 3%
Maybe the biggest argument I have gotten into with distant cousins was that we had Cherokee ancestry and they diverted that sect into Northern Arkansas on the way to OK on the Trail of Tears. Then I got my Ancestry and FTDNA results:
Ancestry - 53% Great Britain 23% Ireland 18% Scandinavia 5% Iberian Peninsula <1% Both Eastern and Western Europe = 100% European
FTDNA- 45% British Isle 37% Western and Central Europe 11% Scandinavia 7% Finland = 100% European
Still the lady screams this stuff was voodoo. Some people just don't want family history messed with. In my case, the bigger shock for me, is that even though I have traced 95% of family at least into the 1700's, there are no Scandinavian surnames present. Guess about 1 in 5 of my ancestors were plundering Vikings.
I think the discrepancy of the Central and Western Europe may be migration timing. Not absolutely sure.
May have mentioned this before, but one of the key things I took from my ancestry.com DNA analysis is that I am 100% Western European.
This amuses me, because my Marxist idiot worthless assh*** older brother insists he's 1/12 Shawnee. Uh, no. It doesn't work that way. We have the same parents, and he can't be 1/12 injun when I'm 100% Euro.
Here's an article from Ancestry around this issue. Data showing all areas of the UK have signifiant (average) concentration of Scandinavian ancestry. Seems the genetic makeup of Viking invaders of the 8th-10th century is ubiquitous in all of our testing.
https://www.ancestry.com/corporate/international/press-releases/DNA-of-the-nation-revealedand-were-not-as-British-as-we-think (https://www.ancestry.com/corporate/international/press-releases/DNA-of-the-nation-revealedand-were-not-as-British-as-we-think)
@mountaineer
Piss him off by offering to pay for his dna test.
I am 1/4 Tuscorara,and it doesn't mean a damn thing other that serve as a curiosity.
@sneakypete
Your more Siberian American than Warren.
It is extremely important that everyone understands the difference between the reliability aspects of different components of YDNA vs atDNA. This subject area is the most misunderstood part of DNA testing.
As an overall generality, YDNA is way, way more reliable than atDNA, but it absolutely depends on EXACTLY what you mean, so let’s dive into it:
NGS Y testing, especially Big Y-700, which is far, far and away the best Y test for comparative analysis vs others on your line of descent is concerned, are entirely reliable. What I mean about comparative analysis is the simple reality of the fact that way more people have Big Y-700 (or the lesser 500) tests, and therefore show up on FTDNA’s continuously iterative Block Tree. It’s simply the fact of the matter. The Country Report at each clade back up the Block Tree can be very informative, especially once you get beyond the same answers into something more ancestral.
On the other hand, Y STR testing is much, much less reliable, and it is very unfortunate that people don’t understand that fact. STR testing was designed for, and is primarily useful for, simply differentiating your particular family of your surname vs the other families who happen to have the same surname. Trying to abuse STR testing beyond that, especially trying to branch a family on the basis of it, is a fool’s game. Instead, order Big Y-700.
More at link.
Am I the only one that only understood a maximum of 1 word out of 3?Moi aussi. That's why I don't get too technical about my ancestry DNA. Oh, you say I'm part Scandinavian? Cool. Beyond that, my reaction is "huh?"
Never had any interest in the DNA..... It is the stories that I like.
My mom was a professional genealogist and she went thru all the documents for our family.
Evidently our first US bound ancestor stole a horse and they were going to hang him but he stowed away on a ship and came to American sometime in the 1700's.
We had a Cherokee woman in the tree but lost track of her on the Trail of Tears.
Never had any interest in the DNA..... It is the stories that I like.
My mom was a professional genealogist and she went thru all the documents for our family.
Evidently our first US bound ancestor stole a horse and they were going to hang him but he stowed away on a ship and came to American sometime in the 1700's.
We had a Cherokee woman in the tree but lost track of her on the Trail of Tears.
DNA is useful for Geneology in settling disputed parentage disputes. Otherwise, it is pretty much useless IMHO.
Am I the only one that only understood a maximum of 1 word out of 3?
Unless your ancestors were from one place like my wife, but like mine from severaal places and types, it is complicated.
Just take Native Americans from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego, and it seems they migrated exgtensively over thousands of years.
Likewise the UK and Italy got trampled under the sandals of xeveral major peoples.
Who was in the UK, before the Celts, Anglo-Saxons? Were they the same as the North Sea Islanders (Scandinavian), or were they from continentsl Eorope-France etc (Celtic).
There are a few unique groups, like Basques, Saami, etc.
The testing companies use different terms, and different reference sample (bones).
EXAMPLE: Firm#1 labels bones from England, as "British," and a testing Firm#2, labels the same bones, as "Scandinavian."
Multiply these migrations by tens, go back centuries, and, and the possibilites multiply.
Example: When my uncle, carrer Army officer, had been stationed in Italy, met mywife, he told her she was part Greek. That claim is probably true for many in that region of Italy.
My father, 1/2 Swedish, joked that his dark hair came from Viking exploits, to Southern Europe.
DNA is useful for Geneology in settling disputed parentage disputes. Otherwise, it is pretty much useless IMHO.
@truth_seeker
England had a long history of being invaded. That could explain my 3% Swedish DNA according to Ancestry if they are right.
England had a long history of being invaded. That could explain my 3% Swedish DNA according to Ancestry if they are right.That's my story. The Scandinavian Vikings ended up in Scotland and intermarried with the locals, apparently.
QuoteJust take Native Americans from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego, and it seems they migrated exgtensively over thousands of years.
@truth_seeker
I have always wondered who the ignorant fool was that decided to lump the peoples already living in North America when the Spaniards and the English showed up as a group of people. They ranged from as black as Africans to as white as Swedes,and every shade in-between. Some were more like Asians that any other group of people,and they all had different religious beliefs and superstitions.
I have also wondered why the people of today still seem to believe that crap.QuoteWho was in the UK, before the Celts, Anglo-Saxons?
Depends on how you define the UK.QuoteWere they the same as the North Sea Islanders (Scandinavian), or were they from continentsl Eorope-France etc (Celtic).
Yes,and No. Depends on which ethnic group you are asking about.QuoteThere are a few unique groups, like Basques, Saami, etc.
The Basques definitely played a large role in developing the people of Northern Scotland and Ireland. They bred with the Picts and eventually replaced them,and the natives of Scotland had/have more in common with the Irish than the do the lowland Scots. IIRC,most of the lowland "Scots" are actually British citizens that were sent to Scotland to take over control of the farms and manufacturing in the lowlands to decrease the Scots attacks on the English. And,of course,over time,the original lowland Scots became genetic and cultural English,while the Highland Scots continued to be troublemakers. "Hadrians Wall" was originally built by the Romans to serve as a barrier to raids on the Roman settlements by the Picts,who were described as "giants who had red hair and painted their bodies blue and went into battle naked."
The people we call "British" today are originally from Europe. Most likely their ancestors were fishermen or just peasants looking for free land to farm that didn't belong to some king or another. You just can't beat "free land" if you are born on a farm owed by someone else and have no hope of ever earning enough money to buy your own farm.
BTW,I have never heard of the Saami immigrating to when is now GB. I know for a fact there was a huge settlement of them in Russia,primarily in the Mari Republic,and others in (I believe) the northern part of what is today called Finland. I was once friends with the Russian woman who wrote the first dictionary defining the Sammi language. She was half-Saami herself,and married to an ethnic Slav. If anyone is interested in this,the Mari Museum is on the web with many interesting photos and history.
What has always fascinated me is the people who were native to a eastern European major city (damn chemo brain is blocking the name at the moment) who had a language and custom all of their own,and who were also described as "giants with red hair". Especially since the desert burial ground in China was discovered in mainland China in what is now a desert region that was filled with elaborate tombs. One of which,when opened,contained what could be described as a giant women with red hair reclining on a couch dressed in what we would call a "witch costume" today. Yup,even the "witch hat". It is so dry in that area that she was almost perfectly preserved,and her hair was red,her eyes were blue,and her skin was white. Nobody knows where these giant redheads came from,but that Eastern European city whose name I can't remember now was partially populated by people with that description,and even their language was different than everybody else that lived there. MY theory is they are a part of the same tribe from Basque country that immigrated to northern Scotland.
That's my story. The Scandinavian Vikings ended up in Scotland and intermarried with the locals, apparently.
@mountaineerThey are spoken of as a Northern branch of "Germanic"=Danes, Swedes, Norwegians, Icelanders, some Fins, ) vs.Continental or South branch of "Germanic = (Germans, Austrians, Franks, Belgians etc.)
Yes,but the real question is "Where did the Scandinavian Vikings come from?"
Interesting, ts.
I follow a Facebook page for people who share my father's surname (and various iterations thereof). They have a DNA project going for males in the group, which excludes me, tracking back to all the aforementioned Vikings.
Interesting, ts.
I follow a Facebook page for people who share my father's surname (and various iterations thereof). They have a DNA project going for males in the group, which excludes me, tracking back to all the aforementioned Vikings.
There has been a major privacy breach at GEDmatch, the third-party genetic genealogy website which has become well known in the last two years because of its use by law enforcement agencies in the US to solve cold cases. A member of the Genetic Genealogy Ireland Facebook group posted a message at lunchtime today (13.38 pm UK time) to advise that the site had been compromised and that people were receiving what appeared to be fake matches with suspicious e-mail addresses.(This Facebook post has now been deleted.) Some users were reporting that they were receiving unusually large numbers of new matches, all sharing unexpectedly high amounts of DNA which would normally indicate a very close relationship. In another group, one user reported receiving over 3000 matches, all of which shared over 700 cM. A match in this range would normally indicate a very close relationship such as a first cousin or closer.
Later on this afternoon (14.54 pm UK time) a user posted in the Genetic Genealogy Tips and Techniques group on Facebook that all his kits on GEDmatch were now publicly accessible and all marked as available to the police. This included not just standard kits but also phased kits and Lazarus kits,which are by default always marked as research kits and are not normally available for matching. I checked my own account at GEDmatch and found that all my kits had been changed without my consent to allow police access. This included two phased research kits which were never intended to be made public. I initially found that I was unable to change the settings on any of the kits. The site was up and down for a short while this afternoon before I was finally able to log in and restore my preferred access settings.
Since then GEDmatch has been offline with a message that the site is down for maintenance.
Many other people have also reported that their kits have been affected and that the settings have been changed to allow police access without their consent. Graham Coop shared on Twitter this afternoon a screenshot of his accounts showing how they had all been changed to allow police access..
Later on this afternoon (14.54 pm UK time) a user posted in the Genetic Genealogy Tips and Techniques group on Facebook that all his kits on GEDmatch were now publicly accessible and all marked as available to the police. This included not just standard kits but also phased kits and Lazarus kits
@sneakypete
Your more Siberian American than Warren.
That's my story. The Scandinavian Vikings ended up in Scotland and intermarried with the locals, apparently.
That's my story. The Scandinavian Vikings ended up in Scotland and intermarried with the locals, apparently.
@mountaineer
Yeah,"intermarried"! That's what they did.
Funny how the males of Norway and Sweden compare now vs say 1000 years ago. Valhalla is probbly not a very happy place right now.
@mountaineer
All we really know about them is a Roman historian described them as "Giants with red hair that liked to paint their bodies blue and run into battle naked."
I have never tried that. Bet it would be great fun. You would also be ready for raping and pillaging.[/b]
Yeah,"intermarried"! That's what they did.Of course. They were models of decorum. For Vikings, anyway.
Running naked is great until you get into flora that is higher than your footwear.
I'll promise you that they would only do that once down here in East Texas.Nettles....
Nettles....
And briars and cat claw vines and hawthorn bushes and catus and...
From my tromping around, I've seen the most Rattlers in the saltgrass along the Intercoastal near Chocolate Bayou, the most Moccasins in the Crosby area, and the most Copperheads around Giddings. But they're everywhere. I don't know how, but somehow when wood rots, some of it becomes copperheads. They are always under wood piles and I knew 2 friends that found copperheads under the sheet of plywood in the bed of each of their trucks.
Here's mine, but looking at my son's puts the data in question:
English - Northwestern Europe- 51%
Scotland- 27%
Ireland- 15%
Wales- 7%
However, my son's shows 2% Irish. That is impossible too, since he has a g-g grandfather who immigrated from Dublin Ireland on my wife's side.
I still think the science behind this side of the field is hokey.
Running naked is great until you get into flora that is higher than your footwear.
Here's mine, but looking at my son's puts the data in question:
English - Northwestern Europe- 51%
Scotland- 27%
Ireland- 15%
Wales- 7%
However, my son's shows 2% Irish. That is impossible too, since he has a g-g grandfather who immigrated from Dublin Ireland on my wife's side.
I still think the science behind this side of the field is hokey.
Here's mine, but looking at my son's puts the data in question:
English - Northwestern Europe- 51%
Scotland- 27%
Ireland- 15%
Wales- 7%
However, my son's shows 2% Irish. That is impossible too, since he has a g-g grandfather who immigrated from Dublin Ireland on my wife's side.
I still think the science behind this side of the field is hokey.
I wondered this as well. After looking into it I found that the genes aren't necessarily split 50/50 each generation - your mother might be 100% Irish & your father 100% Spanish yet your genealogical make up might end up showing 10% Irish and 90% Spanish.
Good find, and I do remember some dna forums having siblings report that they (as many as 5) all had different geographical reports. Even differences is locations reported.
Which in essence, confirms my earlier comment that the specific percentages reported in each geographical area is hokey. They do report a range, which is probably the number people need to focus on instead.
I did two different DNA checks - one gave me 1-2% central American and the other 1-2% east asian. I'm as white as a ghost.
Plus I'm still dealing with the .5% troglodyte part.
I've dug a little deeper on my father's side of the family, all the way back to the early 1100s on the Isle of Man. Looks like I may be descended from Manx royalty, specifically King Óláfr Guðrøðarson! The earliest ancestor for whom I have an actual name was born in 1650, though, the family having settled in Ireland by then, but this is what DNA has revealed. Before arriving on the Isle of Man, the ancestors were in Norway. Vikings!
(https://camelsnose.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/vikingoverlordvalhalla.png)
Of course, my first response is to look at travel websites for info on how to get there and things to do (post-Covid, natch).
Vikings kitties rule!I know. That's the best part of this! :laugh:
This was my greatx5-grandfather.
(https://www.oatney.org/images/COLEMAN,%20Michael%20Historal%20Marker-WV.jpg)
How's your day going? :laugh:
i received an email from Wikitree and it had a link that would show your "Royal Ancestors" . So I ran it and saw that it show Charlemagne Carolingian (abt. 0748 - 0814) was an Ancestor to me. I went over to my Ancestry tree and saw I had him in my tree as my 35th Great Grandfather. I had never realized that he was a "Pepin". My mother is a "Pippin(Pepin)". Its a small world after all.
@Elderberry
Everybody needs to take a deep breath over this "ancestor" crap. ESPECIALLY once it goes back further than your parents,or maybe grandparents,depending on where they lived and how close their neighbors were.
I don't care WHAT family you came from,SOMEBODY was doing a little "slipping away" at one point or another,and nobody further back than your living grandparents had even heard rumors about stuff like DNA testing.
Besides,the only thing that is really important that you have any control over is who YOU are as a human being.
@sneakypete
Fine. I'll try to keep my crap to myself. So please keep yours to yourself. This will be my Last message I send to you. Please Reciprocate and do not send me any more messages.
@Elderberry
Everybody needs to take a deep breath over this "ancestor" crap. ESPECIALLY once it goes back further than your parents,or maybe grandparents,depending on where they lived and how close their neighbors were.
I don't care WHAT family you came from,SOMEBODY was doing a little "slipping away" at one point or another,and nobody further back than your living grandparents had even heard rumors about stuff like DNA testing.
Besides,the only thing that is really important that you have any control over is who YOU are as a human being.
Via data and other member triangulation I have common autosomal matches to others with every ancestor I have to the 3rd great grand parent level. Not that my ancestors were prudes or anything, but.......
@catfish1957
VERY few of us know anything about the sex lives of our ancestors,or even want to know.
What we DO know is they were people,just like everybody else,and they had all the desires ,both sexual and others,in life that everyone else has.
Speaking for myself,I have ZERO desire to know ANYTHING about the private lives of my ancestors,although I do know my grandfather was a bootlegger during prohibition that used his sailing ship to bring in rum and other spirits during prohibition. I know this because he was murdered by competitors in his own home while eating supper, and it made the newspapers at the time. Every one of my relatives that I know of try to ignore or deny this but one. I am almost positive their children know nothing about it.
@catfish1957
VERY few of us know anything about the sex lives of our ancestors,or even want to know.
What we DO know is they were people,just like everybody else,and they had all the desires ,both sexual and others,in life that everyone else has.
Speaking for myself,I have ZERO desire to know ANYTHING about the private lives of my ancestors,although I do know my grandfather was a bootlegger during prohibition that used his sailing ship to bring in rum and other spirits during prohibition. I know this because he was murdered by competitors in his own home while eating supper, and it made the newspapers at the time. Every one of my relatives that I know of try to ignore or deny this but one. I am almost positive their children know nothing about it.
Same here. My g-grandfathers family in TN made moonshine and hung out with Jesse James apparently.
QuotePete... I have a newspaper.com and genalogybank.com subscription which has a massive amount of scanned newspapers. If you are interested, I'll look up it up. Just will need his name, location, approx. death dates. It may or may not be there, but its worth a shot.
@catfish1957
Thanks,but the local newspaper still has the story with photos in it's archive. It was front page news when it happened.
I also have a photo of my grandmother,who was THE scariest looking woman I have ever seen,as well as a photo of my grandfather,who was as handsome as a young Robert Redford when the photo was taken. My grandmother,being a full-blooded eastern Indian was VERY dark,almost black,and had an expression on her face and in her eyes that would scare paint off a wall.
Like I said,I talked with local women who knew her well back when they were young women,and the one thing that sticks out that they all said was "She was the smartest woman I ever knew."
Nobody had anything to say about her beauty,though. :laugh:
There just ain't no explaining true love.
@Free Vulcan
People are people,and we all do what we have to do to make it in this world.
My grandfather came from a wealthy farming family,and they disowned him for marrying an Indian.
Since he was cut off from the family fortune,he did what he thought was best to provide for his wife and children,and the easy money,and truthfully the ONLY money,to be made in the 30's was illegal money,so he went into the importing business.
I neither blame him for this or am proud of it. He was just doing what we all do,trying to make the best life he could make for his family. Chances are if I were in the same situation,I would do the same,or maybe even worse. Truthfully,I have a hard time thinking of anything I WOULDN'T do if I had a house full of hungry children and no money coming in to support them.
@sneakypete
I live on in Iowa on the Mississippi River. Most people don't know this but back in the prohibition days Capone pretty much owned the bootleg trade from Quincy, IL to Dubuque.
Half the wealth acquired in my county is legit. The other half is mafia. In one town many of the nice homes on the rich side of town were bootleg money, and one family took theirs and founded a bank that's still around.
Heck, even my grandpa worked for Capone as a bouncer for awhile. That's just the way it was on the poor side of town back then.
I have 11 direct ancestors who came here on the Mayflower and some who participated in every major event since. I spend a lot of time lately wondering how I'm going to apologize to them when I see them again.
@ElderberryThen why did you "Personally" mention me? Which Emails me. You must really really want me to read what you wrote, since you mentioned me which emails me personally.
Why are you taking this so personally? You know it's true for everyone,not just you.
Then why did you "Personally" mention me? Which Emails me. You must really really want me to read what you wrote, since you mentioned me which emails me personally.
So please, please, please, Stop mentioning me. I know of no way to block the emails sent to me when you mention me, except to block all mention emails from this site.
I have no problem communicating via posts and replies. Just cut out all the mentioning.
@Elderberry
I am genuinely sorry if I offended you.
That was not my intent,and I honestly still don't understand what you are upset about. But it really doesn't matter if I understand it or not. The only thing important is that I unknowingly offended you.
BTW,how can I reply to any of your posts without using your screen name?
Have used FTDNA and Ancestry's dna tests with great results. I think FTDNA is more competent in the field, but Ancestry's tools for matches beat FTDNA hands down. Have you taken the plunge at FTDNA with Big Y yet? Been a bust here so far. My drilled down to a finite haplogroup that has about only 3 other members, and none have my surname. :(
Just signed up to upgrade my Y 67 to Big Y today after learning that the man I had listed as my 6th GG grandfather was in the wrong haplogroup and thus could not possibly be the father of my 5th GG grandfather. Don't expect much immediately but Y DNA research is rapidly expanding databases. @catfish1957
Same problem here at my 5-GGF level. Different Haplogroup in my surname who arrived in VA in about 1700 from Scotland. OTOH, there are 9 of a match of a different surname. So there was some form or fashion of a paternal mishap in my paternal line between 1700-1770. Another Scottish surname instead.
Human nature being what it is, I'm sure that "woodpile" events didn't just start recently. I'm sure they are more common than once imagined and DNA is uncovering them.
My wife and I have been married for 54 years. Until about 4 years ago we had no reason to suspect that the man listed on her birth certificate as her father was not her biological father, but it turns out he isn't. The man who IS her biological father is long since departed and never knew she existed. All this revealed because of DNA results.
Human nature being what it is, I'm sure that "woodpile" events didn't just start recently. I'm sure they are more common than once imagined and DNA is uncovering them.QuoteQuoteMy wife and I have been married for 54 years. Until about 4 years ago we had no reason to suspect that the man listed on her birth certificate as her father was not her biological father, but it turns out he isn't.
@Bigun
Well,yeah,he was. In FACT,he was the only father she knew. The other man was just a sperm donor.
BTW,do NOT belittle the term "sperm donor". Who knows how many families would have never existed if it hadn't been for their secret "interventions"?
The woman and the man had a child and a family to raise.
While I am sure that some of these donors were local neighbors,I SUSPECT that more than a few of them were the traveling salesmen that took their wagons to remote locations to sell their goods.
While there,alone with the wife because the man was out working the fields or hunting for game,the salesman happened to make an anonymous "donation" that created a family.
And let's face it,frontier families would have never survived without the help of children.