The Briefing Room
General Category => World News => Topic started by: mystery-ak on July 17, 2014, 03:30:16 pm
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http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html?sr=fb071714flightcrash1130adevelopingstorystatus (http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html?sr=fb071714flightcrash1130adevelopingstorystatus)
Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
By Jason Hanna, CNN
updated 11:24 AM EDT, Thu July 17, 2014
(CNN) -- A Malaysia Airlines flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur has crashed in eastern Ukraine, Russian news agency Interfax reported Thursday.
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Gee wiz, not a good year for Malaysian air. Most likely not a accident. Yes I know it is to soon.
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Breaking News: Malaysia Airlines, Ministry of Transport say they have no information about any airliner that may have crashed
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/us-ukraine-crash-airplane-idUSKBN0FM1TU20140717
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Gee wiz, not a good year for Malaysian air. Most likely not a accident. Yes I know it is to soon.
Too soon, yes.....but there are a lot of reasons to be suspicious....
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BREAKING NEWS: Malaysian passenger plane carrying 295 people 'shot down' over Ukraine near Russian border
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696161/BREAKING-NEWS-Malaysian-passenger-plane-carrying-295-people-crashes-Ukraine-near-Russian-border.html
A Malaysian Airlines passenger plane has reportedly been shot down on the Russian-Ukraine border, apparently killing all 295 people on board.
Flight MH17, which was carrying 280 passengers and 15 crew, was flying between Amsterdam and Kuala Lumpar after taking off leaving at lunchtime today.
The Interfax news agency reported that the aircraft went missing near Donetsk, where pro-Russian rebels have been fighting Ukrainian government forces for several weeks.
TV pictures from the scene showed a pall of smoke billowing into the sky apparently from the stricken aircraft.
It is believed the plane was struck by BUK surface-to-air missile at 33,000ft around 20 miles before entering Russian airspace.
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http://news.sky.com/story/1302864/malaysian-plane-shot-down-with-295-on-board (http://news.sky.com/story/1302864/malaysian-plane-shot-down-with-295-on-board)
Malaysian Plane 'Shot Down With 295 On Board'
A Boeing 777 flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur comes down in Ukraine after reportedly being hit by a ground-to-air missile.
more at link
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(http://cdn.breitbart.com/mediaserver/Breitbart/Big-Peace/2014/07/17/malaysia-flight-ukraine-youtube.jpg?w=420)
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(http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00735/Twit_735394c.jpg)
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No kidding - the very first words out of the mouth of a liberal co-worker when I read to him the headline of it being shot down - "Did Israel shoot it down?” Wow are the brain-washed masses stuck on stupid.
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No kidding - the very first words out of the mouth of a liberal co-worker when I read to him the headline of it being shot down - "Did Israel shoot it down?” Wow are the brain-washed masses stuck on stupid.
Yikes.
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Who stands to gain from this? Is this subterfuge to deflect blame to someone else? What would be gained by shooting a commercial Malaysian flight down? The conflict in Ukraine is seemingly unconnected - but yet, this is where it happened. I just heard Rush play a clip of Geraldo Rivera blaming Putin for it.
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Has the White House issued a statement yet to the effect that Obama is concerned and is being kept advised of developments (en route to his fundraisers)?
Today's schedule:11:20 am || Departs White House
12:15 pm || Arrives Delaware
2:10 pm || Delivers remarks on Infrastructure; Port of Wilmington, Wilmington, Delaware
3:15 pm || Departs Delaware
4:00 pm || Arrives New York City
5:45 pm || Attends a DNC fundraiser; private residence, New York City
7:30 pm || Attends a fundraiser for House Democrats; private residence, New York City
9:15 pm || Departs New York
10:30 pm || Arrives White House
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Limbaugh just said he is being asked if Obama apologized to Putin for the shootdown yet, and has no idea if he has or not......
:smokin:
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Who stands to gain from this? Is this subterfuge to deflect blame to someone else? What would be gained by shooting a commercial Malaysian flight down? The conflict in Ukraine is seemingly unconnected - but yet, this is where it happened. I just heard Rush play a clip of Geraldo Rivera blaming Putin for it.
Most likely this is a case of itchy trigger finger. If this was a BUK surface to air missile, thousands of these self-propelled units were built by the Soviets and widely distributed all over Eastern Europe. Could have been someone on either side deliberately trying to provoke a serious incident, or typical Russian military incompetence. To answer your question, nobody stands to gain anything from an act like this, and it could very well prove to be the spark some group needed to justify another event that is yet to come.
Incidents like this have been the spark that set of a wider regional war all through history. Too many examples exist to list them.
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Incidents like this have been the spark that set of a wider regional war all through history. Too many examples exist to list them.
It can be said WWI started with a single shot from a .32 ACP. How much more can it take to start Armageddon?
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WARNING GRAPHIC IMAGES -- First Ground Pictures Of Boeing 777 With Flight Number MH17...
http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines/warning-graphic-images-first-ground-pictures-of-boeing-777-with-flight-number-mh17 (http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines/warning-graphic-images-first-ground-pictures-of-boeing-777-with-flight-number-mh17)
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Obviously being used to demonize Russians and Russian separatists.
Best reason to think they didn't do it...
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http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/212569-obama-putin-discussed-downed-plane (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/212569-obama-putin-discussed-downed-plane)
Obama, Putin discussed downed plane
By Justin Sink - 07/17/14 01:27 PM EDT
President Obama and Russian President Vladimir Putin discussed reports that a Malaysian Airlines plane was downed near the Russia-Ukraine border, the White House and Kremlin said on Thursday.
Press secretary Josh Earnest said the conversation occurred near the end of the call, requested by Moscow.
The Kremlin said Putin "informed the U.S. president of the report from air traffic controllers that the Malaysian plane had crashed on Ukrainian territory, which had arrived immediately before the phone call" in a statement posted to its website.
The conversation between the world leaders came on the heels of a new round of economic sanctions announced by Obama on Wednesday, intended to punish Russia for its support of separatists in the Eastern region of Ukraine where the jet appears to have crashed.
The sanctions target two of Russia's biggest financial institutions, eight Russian arms firms and a shipping company that operates in the region. Four additional Russian government officials were also subject to the additional penalties.
Earnest described the discussion between Obama and Putin as "an opportunity for the president to make clear once again the important principles at stake here."
"The United States is committed to ensuring that this international norm of countries respecting the territorial integrity of other countries is prioritized," Earnest said. "The president's made clear that the international community, the United States and our European allies are willing to take steps and impose economic costs on Russia if they decline to respect those basic norms."
The White House spokesman described the conversation as "a candid exchange of views."
The Kremlin said Putin and Obama discussed the crisis in Ukraine "in detail" and that the Russian leader called for an end of hostilities from both the Ukrainian military and the pro-Russian separatists.
Putin also "expressed serious disappointment" with the U.S. decision to impose sanctions against Russian companies, saying they damaged bilateral relations "as well as efforts to find a compromise to resolve the Ukrainian crisis."
Separately, the White House said Obama had been briefed on reports of the plane crash and directed his team to be in close contact with senior Ukrainian officials on the matter.
"The president has asked to be updated over the course of the day," Earnest said.
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-crash-passenger-3875681 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-crash-passenger-3875681)
Malaysia Airlines Ukraine crash: Passenger who joked on Facebook before boarding jet now feared dead
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It can be said WWI started with a single shot from a .32 ACP. How much more can it take to start Armageddon?
Exactly. This is extremely serious.
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State Dept says *‘Highly Inappropriate’*
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/07/17/what-happened-at-the-state-dept-briefing-after-the-plane-crash-in-ukraine-had-shepherd-smith-disgustedly-calling-it-highly-inappropriate/ (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/07/17/what-happened-at-the-state-dept-briefing-after-the-plane-crash-in-ukraine-had-shepherd-smith-disgustedly-calling-it-highly-inappropriate/)
What Happened at the State Dep’t Briefing After the Plane Crash in Ukraine Had Shepard Smith Disgustedly Calling It ‘Highly Inappropriate’
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Who benefits???
From shooting down a commercial flight--nobody.
From shooting down a plane they thought was military---insert your guess here________.
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Obama: "The World Is Less Violent Than It Has Ever Been"
June 2014
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Who benefits???
From shooting down a commercial flight--nobody.
From shooting down a plane they thought was military---insert your guess here________.
Sure they do. The bankster-supported Ukraine 'govt' benefits if the world thinks the Russkies/separatists did it.
Buying in to any part of the argument including 'a plane 'they' thought was military' is just the first step down the rabbit-hole.
C'mon dude. Haven't you been lied to enough in your lifetime to question any 'official' version, including the whole 'east vs west' meme?
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State Dept says *‘Highly Inappropriate’*
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/07/17/what-happened-at-the-state-dept-briefing-after-the-plane-crash-in-ukraine-had-shepherd-smith-disgustedly-calling-it-highly-inappropriate/ (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/07/17/what-happened-at-the-state-dept-briefing-after-the-plane-crash-in-ukraine-had-shepherd-smith-disgustedly-calling-it-highly-inappropriate/)
What Happened at the State Dep’t Briefing After the Plane Crash in Ukraine Had Shepard Smith Disgustedly Calling It ‘Highly Inappropriate’
i won't watch this video so I ask. Shep was upset they didn't start the briefing with the plane crash? Is this what he is upset about?
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Sure they do. The bankster-supported Ukraine 'govt' benefits if the world thinks the Russkies/separatists did it.
Buying in to any part of the argument including 'a plane 'they' thought was military' is just the first step down the rabbit-hole.
C'mon dude. Haven't you been lied to enough in your lifetime to question any 'official' version, including the whole 'east vs west' meme?
This is far more complex than anyone in the West can possibly appreciate. The tensions in that whole part of the world date back centuries, in many ways it is no different than the Middle East when you consider the myriad of tribal interests that everyone can date back to the beginning of time.
One of the reasons that Napoleon was so successful in bringing together his Empire, was because if the English were not slaughtering French nobles they were slaughtering each other, or going off on Crusades to be slaughtered in the Holy Lands. At one time most of Eastern Europe was a morass of petty Principalities and Houses Major and Minor, with all of them squabbling over who was the rightful heir(s).
Add in the Muslim influences in and around the Balkans and all of the other countries in the region and you have the makings of a slaughter that we have not seen the likes of since Pol Pot.
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BBC Live updates
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-28354787 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-28354787)
19:44: US Vice-President Joe Biden has spoken to Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, Reuters quotes the White House as saying. He offered US assistance in helping to determine what happened to the plane.
19:35: The director of Eurocontrol, which controls air traffic across Europe, says that Ukrainian airspace has now been closed after reports of the crash. Speaking to Radio 5 Live, Tytgat Luc said there were four aircraft flying in the same area at the same time that the crash occurred, but that they continued their flights.
Journalist Noah Sneider tweets from the scene: Firefighters putting out smoldering wreckage of #mh17. Everything burnt out, grass, plane, ppls minds. Impossible to comprehend... #ukraine
Journalist Noah Sneider tweets: At crash site of #MH17. Bodies everywhere, organs splayed out. Too gruesome to post photographs. This is an absolute disaster. #ukraine
19:28: Flight recorders have been found at the crash site, Konstantin Knyrik, a spokesman for the pro-Russian rebels, has told Interfax news agency. Earlier reports quoted rebels as saying they intended to send the flight recorders to Moscow for checking.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BswvbFSCMAAaXeh.jpg)
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Daily Mail is reporting 23 Americans and 10 Brits among the dead....
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i won't watch this video so I ask. Shep was upset they didn't start the briefing with the plane crash? Is this what he is upset about?
He was upset with the State Dept's use of the term Highly Inappropriate.....
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Malaysian Airlines MH17 passenger plane carrying 295 people including between five and ten Britons 'shot down with ground-to-air missile' at 33,000ft over Ukraine near to Russian border
Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 shot down over territory held by Pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine
Body parts and wreckage spread over nine-mile area, suggesting plane broke up mid-air
Whitehall sources say up to ten Britons feared dead, 23 Americans also thought to be on board
Ukrainian interior ministry says plane was shot down by a BUK surface-to-air missile
President Petro Poroshenko issued robust denial that his forces were involved
Pro-Russian rebels also denied shooting down the plane and blamed Ukrainian air force
Journalists in region say they saw a Buk-type launcher in pro-Russian rebel hands yesterday
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696161/BREAKING-NEWS-Malaysian-passenger-plane-carrying-295-people-crashes-Ukraine-near-Russian-border.html#ixzz37knK0dL6
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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Per Wiki....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/SeniorChieftain/800px-Buk-M1-2_air_defence_system_in_2010.jpg)
The Buk missile system (Russian: "Бук"; beech, /bʊk/ BOOK) is a family of self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air missile systems developed by the Soviet Union and its successor state, the Russian Federation, and designed to engage cruise missiles, smart bombs, fixed- and rotary-wing aircraft, and unmanned aerial vehicles.[2]
The Buk missile system is the successor to the NIIP/Vympel 2K12 Kub (NATO reporting name SA-6 "Gainful").[3] The first version of Buk adopted into service carried the GRAU designation 9K37 and was identified in the west with the NATO reporting name "Gadfly" as well as the US Department of Defense designation SA-11. Since its initial introduction into service the Buk missile system has been continually upgraded and refined. With the integration of a new missile the Buk-M1-2 and Buk-M2 systems also received a new NATO reporting name Grizzly and a new DoD designation SA-17. The latest incarnation "Buk-M3" is scheduled for production.[4]
A naval version of the system, designed by MNIIRE Altair (currently part of GSKB Almaz-Antey) for the Russian Navy, according to Jane's Missiles & Rockets, received the GRAU designation 3S90M1 and will be identified with the NATO reporting name Gollum and a DoD designation SA-N-7C. The naval system is scheduled for delivery in 2014.[5]
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As you can see, these are big missiles carried on a large tracked launcher, with a separate control vehicle. This is not some shoulder-fired stinger and an airliner would have absolutely no chance of surviving a hit. The ride down from 33,000 feet had to be terrifying for those who no doubt survived until impact.
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He was upset with the State Dept's use of the term Highly Inappropriate.....
thanks.
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He was upset with the State Dept's use of the term Highly Inappropriate.....
I decided to watch the video that is not the way I took it. he was upset about them not leading off with the plane crash.
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As you can see, these are big missiles carried on a large tracked launcher, with a separate control vehicle. This is not some shoulder-fired stinger and an airliner would have absolutely no chance of surviving a hit. The ride down from 33,000 feet had to be terrifying for those who no doubt survived until impact.
Which side is obie on? well yes I know his side but I ask because whoever the MSM blames will surely be the side obie wants to blame right? I also thought obie was not pleased with Putin, so I am thinking they will blame him?
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The ride down from 33,000 feet had to be terrifying for those who no doubt survived until impact.
I read the final report on that Egyptian plane many years ago when the pilot took it into the sea. That was horrible to read, they went up in altitude for a bit then down because the pilots where fighting for control of the plane. This too had to have been just horrible for them.
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http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines/alert-president-putins-plane-might-have-been-the-target-for-ukrainian-missile-sources (http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines/alert-president-putins-plane-might-have-been-the-target-for-ukrainian-missile-sources)
ALERT -- President Putin's Plane Might Have Been The Target For Ukrainian Missile - Sources
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Which side is obie on? well yes I know his side but I ask because whoever the MSM blames will surely be the side obie wants to blame right? I also thought obie was not pleased with Putin, so I am thinking they will blame him?
That is a very good question. This could very well be the work of the "rebels" that Obammy was seeking support for. There is no telling who got their hands on these missiles though. The Soviets always did believe in quantity over quality, in fact Stalin used to say that quantity had a quality all its own. The Soviets make these things in droves, both launchers and missiles...there are thousands of them all over the place, and we already know how unsecure virtually everything is over there....
What worries me still is all of the talking we did over the last decade about missing Russian nukes, backpack nukes, unsecured nuclear material, etc. God only knows what's available over there if you know the right Tovarich......
:smokin:
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http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines/alert-president-putins-plane-might-have-been-the-target-for-ukrainian-missile-sources (http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines/alert-president-putins-plane-might-have-been-the-target-for-ukrainian-missile-sources)
ALERT -- President Putin's Plane Might Have Been The Target For Ukrainian Missile - Sources
Highly plausible.
John Kerry better hope nobody tries this with him.....
Just sayin'......
:smokin:
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Obviously being used to demonize Russians and Russian separatists.
Best reason to think they didn't do it...
Except for the Russian track record in shooting down civilian aircraft. Korean Flight 007 ring a bell?
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http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines/white-house-obama-will-still-attend-two-fundraisers-today-despite-fact-23-americans-were-blown-out-of-the-sky-over-ukraine (http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines/white-house-obama-will-still-attend-two-fundraisers-today-despite-fact-23-americans-were-blown-out-of-the-sky-over-ukraine)
White House: Obama Will Still Attend Two Fundraisers Today Despite Fact 23 Americans Were Blown Out Of The Sky Over Ukraine…
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That is a very good question. This could very well be the work of the "rebels" that Obammy was seeking support for. There is no telling who got their hands on these missiles though. The Soviets always did believe in quantity over quality, in fact Stalin used to say that quantity had a quality all its own. The Soviets make these things in droves, both launchers and missiles...there are thousands of them all over the place, and we already know how unsecure virtually everything is over there....
What worries me still is all of the talking we did over the last decade about missing Russian nukes, backpack nukes, unsecured nuclear material, etc. God only knows what's available over there if you know the right Tovarich......
:smokin:
I am going to go with (for now) whoever the MSM blames, I will go with the opposite.... :smokin: As far as the unsecured nuclear material......i think we will for sure see that event sooner than later with these people in charge.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696389/We-warned-not-fly-sky-Footage-emerges-gloating-Ukraine-rebel-evidence-emerges-Russian-missile-attacks-launched-border.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696389/We-warned-not-fly-sky-Footage-emerges-gloating-Ukraine-rebel-evidence-emerges-Russian-missile-attacks-launched-border.html)
'We warned you not to fly in our sky': Boasts of Russian separatist as evidence emerges of Putin's forces launching missiles into Ukraine days before MH17 disaster
Rebel commander tweeted about downing Ukrainian military plane
He said: 'We warned you - do not fly in our sky'
Chilling statement just before airliner downed over Ukraine-Russia border
As details about the Malaysia Airlines flight emerged, the tweet was deleted
By Will Stewart
Published: 13:49 EST, 17 July 2014 | Updated: 14:28 EST, 17 July 2014
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Except for the Russian track record in shooting down civilian aircraft. Korean Flight 007 ring a bell?
Exactly why it would work so well to blame the Russkies when perhaps it was the Ukrainians trying to shoot down Putin's plane.
http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines/alert-president-putins-plane-might-have-been-the-target-for-ukrainian-missile-sources (http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines/alert-president-putins-plane-might-have-been-the-target-for-ukrainian-missile-sources)
ALERT -- President Putin's Plane Might Have Been The Target For Ukrainian Missile - Sources
Either way... Kool-Aid is so good... believe what you are told to believe...
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BREAKING NEWS:
FLIGHT MH17 HAD DIVERTED FROM ITS USUAL FLIGHT PATH. (CNN)
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At approximately 12:50 pm, the motorcade stopped at the Charcoal Pit, a popular, established restaurant just north of Wilmington, Del. Known for its burgers and sundaes. Obama shook hands and mingled with many of the diners, stopping at one point to pick up seven-month old Jaidyn Oates, and pose for a photo.
He invoked Vice Presiident Biden’s name a few names, noting to some diners, “Me and Joe, we share shakes all the time,” and to others, “Biden told me the burgers are pretty good.”
Just before hugging another young girl, whose mother lifted her across the booth to hug the president, Obama asked, “Do you give good hugs?”
At 1:01 pm Obama declared, “I’m starving!” He sat down to eat with Tanei Benjamin, who wrote the president a year ago. The president ordered a 4-ounce “Pit special,” which is burger with fries. He asked for it to be done medium well, and to have lettuce and tomato. He also asked for a water with lemon.,/i>
http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2014/07/17/care-world/
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#NotInterestedInPhotoOps
:smokin:
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I just heard on Sean Hannity that today is the 18th anniversary of TWA 800 going down. That's a weird coincidence.
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Except for the Russian track record in shooting down civilian aircraft. Korean Flight 007 ring a bell?
Also... doing some cursory research into 'unofficial' viewpoints on the downing of KAL007 and Congressman Larry McDonald might be beneficial to understanding how the world really works...
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Piers Morgan @piersmorgan 2h
President Obama massively dropped the ball just now. 23 Americans killed and he says 'it looks like a terrible tragedy' then back to jokes?
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FOX News Radio @foxnewsradio 2m
A Senior U.S. official confirms to FOX News a "Buk" missile brought down the Malaysian plane.
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BREAKING NEWS:
FLIGHT MH17 HAD DIVERTED FROM ITS USUAL FLIGHT PATH. (CNN)
Another Malaysian plane crashes.
Families of the victims mourn.
CNN rejoices.
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jimgeraghty @jimgeraghty 3m
Americans get shot out of the sky; hours later, the president is at a fundraiser, Biden is at the Netroots Nation conference.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696344/What-shot-MH17-Soviet-built-BUK-surface-air-missile-launcher-believed-brought-Air-Malaysia-flight-33-000ft.html?ito=social-facebook (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696344/What-shot-MH17-Soviet-built-BUK-surface-air-missile-launcher-believed-brought-Air-Malaysia-flight-33-000ft.html?ito=social-facebook)
The Soviet-built BUK surface-to-air missile launcher believed to have brought down Malaysian Airline flight MH17 at 33,000ft
BUK surface-to-air launchers designed to engage aircraft and cruise missiles
Can easily take down a large plane up to an altitude of 75,000 feet
BUK launchers were first developed in the Soviet Union in the late 1970s
By JOHN HALL
PUBLISHED: 12:57 EST, 17 July 2014 | UPDATED: 13:44 EST, 17 July 2014
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/17/article-0-1FBA0F3200000578-510_634x703.jpg)
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http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html (http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html)
SBU intercepts phone conversations of separatists admitting downing a civilian plane (FULL TRANSCRIPT; VIDEO)...at link
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SBU intercepts phone conversations of separatists admitting downing a civilian plane (FULL TRANSCRIPT; VIDEO)...at link
So now we should ask why the airliner was in that airspace when others were going around? Saving gas or sent in hoping for a shoot-down?
Also, Malaysia Airlines *again*? That's too coincidental. Somethings up with that as well.
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Fox is reporting that this might have been an SA-20 missile, and that analysis of air traffic control tapes is underway to determine where the shot came from.
What is important to understand here, is no matter what, you cannot simply point an SA-11 or SA 20 SAM at a target, light the fuse like Wile E. Coyote, and just walk away while it launches. These were guided missiles that are very sophisticated, guided by radar and telemetry to a target that has to be deliberately selected and designated as hostile before the missile will lock. You cannot do anything with just a launch vehicle either, there is a separate command and control vehicle that is required to launch anything.
The point is, this was not just some rebel who got his hands on a single rocket or launcher vehicle. This missile was launched with the efforts of more than one person, in multiple vehicles, and was guided to its target deliberately and directly by them.
The picture I posted earlier shows three different vehicles that make up a troop. I'm sure they can have multiple launcher vehicles if needed. Think about the Israeli Iron Dome system. It has multiple launchers on each site with a control vehicle for them all.
Speaking of Iron Dome....does anyone have a feeling for the time it takes the IDF to combat reload an Iron Dome battery?? Those kids must be drilled to a razor's edge, and the terrorist rockets have been fired in volleys deliberately trying to overwhelm ID....
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I just heard on Sean Hannity that today is the 18th anniversary of TWA 800 going down. That's a weird coincidence.
As an aviation nut and a historian, I can say with certainty that it's nothing more than a coincidence. Most dates have more than one plane crash, with only the year being different.
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The aircraft lost, 9M-MRD, was exactly 17 years old, having taken its first flight on 7-17-1997.
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I just heard on Sean Hannity that today is the 18th anniversary of TWA 800 going down. That's a weird coincidence.
Along with TWA800.
July 17, 2007: TAM Linhas Aereas’ flight 3054 overruns the runway while landing at Sao Paulo, Brazil; killing all 187 people on board.
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Jennifer griffin is reporting on Fox, that the rebels were thought to have access to these SAMs several days ago, and this is the third plane they have shot down in the same area in the last few days, and now they are finally taking it seriously.
One way or another, these rebels got ahold of Russian weapons, and the company that makes BUK missiles was one of the firms that was sanctioned just yesterday.
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This is what happens when there is a wuss in the White House.
As soon as one shows weakness, every bad guy in the world comes out of hiding.
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Speaking of Iron Dome....does anyone have a feeling for the time it takes the IDF to combat reload an Iron Dome battery?? Those kids must be drilled to a razor's edge, and the terrorist rockets have been fired in volleys deliberately trying to overwhelm ID....
Usually they have 5 batteries per unit. Use two, then rotate to the next pair while the first pair are being reloaded. The 5th is a reserve for any battery that gets down checked.
Each battery has it's own dedicated team. Fire control has three shifts who rotate on the hour - it keeps alertness at maximum.
Reload times are theoretically 90 minutes minimum, since it's not just loading ordinance but the launcher itself has to be inspected and checked. A good and well drilled team - and they all are - can do the turnaround in less than 20 minutes if they don't mind cutting the odd corner. I've seen them calmly checking the launcher itself while the thing is still firing. They joke about it, calling the inevitable burns a quick tan. :laugh:
They take pride in their work. Each unit of the system has it's own name and the cabs are decorated inside with all sorts of odd things.
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Usually they have 5 batteries per unit. Use two, then rotate to the next pair while the first pair are being reloaded. The 5th is a reserve for any battery that gets down checked.
Each battery has it's own dedicated team. Fire control has three shifts who rotate on the hour - it keeps alertness at maximum.
Reload times are theoretically 90 minutes minimum, since it's not just loading ordinance but the launcher itself has to be inspected and checked. A good and well drilled team - and they all are - can do the turnaround in less than 20 minutes if they don't mind cutting the odd corner. I've seen them calmly checking the launcher itself while the thing is still firing. They joke about it, calling the inevitable burns a quick tan. :laugh:
They take pride in their work. Each unit of the system has it's own name and the cabs are decorated inside with all sorts of odd things.
Thanks! I appreciate that insight...
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It would not be the first time that American intelligence has strapped recon equipment on to a civilian aircraft(without the pilot knowing anything about it) and then route it over a sensitive area of interest.
This has happened in the past. Is that what this was all about. The Russians would have the equipment to detect any espionage. Who knows?
I am only saying that this stunt is not unheard of, and has been done before. Everyone is asking the same question. What was that aircraft doing there? Are they stupid? Did they not know the danger? All other aircraft were routed wide of that area.
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It would not be the first time that American intelligence has strapped recon equipment on to a civilian aircraft(without the pilot knowing anything about it) and then route it over a sensitive area of interest.
This has happened in the past. Is that what this was all about. The Russians would have the equipment to detect any espionage. Who knows?
I am only saying that this stunt is not unheard of, and has been done before. Everyone is asking the same question. What was that aircraft doing there? Are they stupid? Did they not know the danger? All other aircraft were routed wide of that area.
That is getting into tin foil hat land. This is not the fault of the United States.
The route was known to be at risk, and many airlines have quit using it. However, the aircraft was above the restricted altitude limit.
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Thanks! I appreciate that insight...
:beer:
No problem. I've flown resupply for the units a few times in the past while on secondment. Got the 10 cent tour, though wasn't allowed in fire control, obviously. While the base specifications are easy enough to find, the Israelis are inventive as hell at modifying and upgrading and like to keep those on the quiet side! :laugh:
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As an aviation nut and a historian, I can say with certainty that it's nothing more than a coincidence. Most dates have more than one plane crash, with only the year being different.
Let's narrow it down to planes that were shot down. That's a little more weird of a coincidence, isn't it?
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Let's narrow it down to planes that were shot down. That's a little more weird of a coincidence, isn't it?
I do not, nor have I ever believed that TWA800 was shot down. And I will not get into that blasted debate yet again.
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I do not, nor have I ever believed that TWA800 was shot down. And I will not get into that blasted debate yet again.
I think differently, but I understand where you're coming from. :beer:
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From Chieftan's post #33:
[[ The Buk missile system (Russian: "Бук"; beech, /bʊk/ BOOK) is a family of self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air missile systems developed by the Soviet Union and its successor state, the Russian Federation, and designed to engage cruise missiles, smart bombs, fixed- and rotary-wing aircraft, and unmanned aerial vehicles.[2] ]]
Just a thought, may not mean anything, but...
....How long until groups like ISIS get ahold of these things?
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From Chieftan's post #33:
[[ The Buk missile system (Russian: "Бук"; beech, /bʊk/ BOOK) is a family of self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air missile systems developed by the Soviet Union and its successor state, the Russian Federation, and designed to engage cruise missiles, smart bombs, fixed- and rotary-wing aircraft, and unmanned aerial vehicles.[2] ]]
Just a thought, may not mean anything, but...
....How long until groups like ISIS get ahold of these things?
ISIS already has that and more. They even have uranium. However, it is like give an ape a rifle. They have everything they need to cause destruction worldwide, but they are primitive barbarians, and lack the intelligence to be able to do anything with it.
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Todd Starnes
25 mins ·
23 Americans may have been murdered -- blown out of the sky -- yet President Obama chose to crack jokes and eat a burger in Delaware and attend two fundraisers in New York City.
Folks -- wow. Just wow.
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Todd Starnes
25 mins ·
23 Americans may have been murdered -- blown out of the sky -- yet President Obama chose to crack jokes and eat a burger in Delaware and attend two fundraisers in New York City.
Folks -- wow. Just wow.
Was there a photo op?? :smokin:
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ISIS already has that and more. They even have uranium. However, it is like give an ape a rifle. They have everything they need to cause destruction worldwide, but they are primitive barbarians, and lack the intelligence to be able to do anything with it.
It is so tempting to accept that.
Let me tell you a small tale. My wife got her doctorate in Verona. Good University, solid medical and engineering schools, though she were languages. The place were full of Palis - all doing tech subjects.
Don't assume that because their ideology is a bit on the primitive side that they are. You'll probably find, if you dig, that the vast majority of Hamas ae far better educated than your typical US citizen.
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I would put good money that whoever fired that missile is likely dead and the launcher is in a million little pieces by now.
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Todd Starnes
25 mins ·
23 Americans may have been murdered -- blown out of the sky -- yet President Obama chose to crack jokes and eat a burger in Delaware and attend two fundraisers in New York City.
Folks -- wow. Just wow.
Even all the Liberals are taking note of this. Even they are saying the same thing as you, Wow.
Everything fell flat for Obama today, all across America. His stupid 'jokes'. His cute little smart-ass 'zingers' against Republicans. His whole speech was a lead balloon. And the 'wow' part comes in that he was too STUPID to notice.
He thinks it is just another day, like any other day, and he can just go on with his robotic speeches and endless parties and fund raising.
This got the attention of everyone, even the most Lefty Leftists in America.
Bottom line is not only is the guy not 'brilliant or a 'messiah'', as he was sold, he is down right unintelligent. He is stupid and goofy. Even the Left is starting to realize this now.
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It is so tempting to accept that.
Let me tell you a small tale. My wife got her doctorate in Verona. Good University, solid medical and engineering schools, though she were languages. The place were full of Palis - all doing tech subjects.
Don't assume that because their ideology is a bit on the primitive side that they are. You'll probably find, if you dig, that the vast majority of Hamas ae far better educated than your typical US citizen.
I know. I know what you are saying. However, while true, there are some caveats to what you are saying. The battlefield is the classroom of a soldier. These upper class educated Muslims have never and will never see combat. Only the stupid Muslims can be convinced to 'die for Allah'. The educated Muslims are too smart for that crap. They may try to provide remote technical assistance to their 'brothers', but they will never get out in the dirt and risk their lives on the ground.
These educated Muslims are not intended to fight. Their job is primarily political, in terms or fund raising and propaganda.
Furthermore, no one in the Muslim world is in a mood to support ISIS at this point in time. Once they consolidate their power. their territory and their money, this may well change.
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Who benefits???
From shooting down a commercial flight--nobody.
From shooting down a plane they thought was military---insert your guess here________.
Sure they do. The bankster-supported Ukraine 'govt' benefits if the world thinks the Russkies/separatists did it.
So, you believe the Ukraine govt shot down a commercial aircraft so that people would blame the Russkies/separatists?
C'mon man.
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I know. I know what you are saying. However, while true, there are some caveats to what you are saying. The battlefield is the classroom of a soldier. These upper class educated Muslims have never and will never see combat. Only the stupid Muslims can be convinced to 'die for Allah'. The educated Muslims are too smart for that crap. They may try to provide remote technical assistance to their 'brothers', but they will never get out in the dirt and risk their lives on the ground.
These educated Muslims are not intended to fight. Their job is primarily political, in terms or fund raising and propaganda.
Furthermore, no one in the Muslim world is in a mood to support ISIS at this point in time. Once they consolidate their power. their territory and their money, this may well change.
Figured you knew - you've been there. But it's always something worth reminding other readers of.
I can't see any real signs of ISIS support right now. The Saudis don't want them. The Iranians don't want them. The majority of the Syrians don't want them. Jordan has what you may politely call a "Hell no" response. The Kurds put bounties on them.
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So, you believe the Ukraine govt shot down a commercial aircraft so that people would blame the Russkies/separatists?
C'mon man.
I do believe that there are people who would divert an airliner over a war-zone where two aircraft have been shot down this week for political purposes, yes.
The Russians and the separatists had nothing to gain from shooting down a civilian airliner and had been shooting down military planes all week.
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The Ukrainian military has shot down a civilian airliner in the past...
Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 was shot down by the Ukrainian military over the Black Sea on 4 October 2001, en route from Tel Aviv, Israel to Novosibirsk, Russia. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812)
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696975/Putin-blames-Ukraine-loss-Flight-MH17-298-innocent-souls-DOESNT-deny-Russian-separatists-shot-missile-McCain-warns-Hell-pay.html?ito=social-facebook (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696975/Putin-blames-Ukraine-loss-Flight-MH17-298-innocent-souls-DOESNT-deny-Russian-separatists-shot-missile-McCain-warns-Hell-pay.html?ito=social-facebook)
Did MH17 pilot divert INTO the danger zone? Aviation expert claims captain made last-minute change of course over Ukraine because he 'felt uncomfortable' as it emerges plane was ordered to fly 2,000 feet lower than requested
Russian military expert claims pilot radioed his concerns about the route before diverting over rebel-held territory
Russian media explores theory that Ukrainian armed forces shot down Boeing 777 after mistaking it for Putin's jet
Malaysia Airlines filed flight plan requesting 35,000 feet through airspace but was told to fly at 33,000
Kremlin leader was flying back to Moscow from Brazilian World Cup at around same time passenger plane crashed
Russian aviation sources said the routes of the two planes 'crossed at the same point and on the same altitude'
Ukrainian official accuses Putin of smuggling missile launcher back into Russia to cover up Kremlin involvement
Malaysian transport minister said MH17 was flying on approved route and pilot given no last-minute instructions
Putin calls for a ceasefire by pro-Russian separatists and Ukrainian government forces to allow for negotiations
By SIMON TOMLINSON and MICHAEL SEAMARK and LOUISE ECCLES and WILL STEWART and TED THORNHILL
PUBLISHED: 02:07 EST, 18 July 2014 | UPDATED: 09:07 EST, 18 July 2014
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Samantha Power @AmbassadorPower 2m
Need unfettered, independent investigation. Separatists must agree to immediate ceasefire—we must stop at nothing to bring perps to justice.
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http://nypost.com/2014/07/18/we-have-just-shot-down-a-plane-russian-officer/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPFacebook&utm_medium=SocialFlow (http://nypost.com/2014/07/18/we-have-just-shot-down-a-plane-russian-officer/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPFacebook&utm_medium=SocialFlow)
‘We have just shot down a plane’
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http://nypost.com/2014/07/18/chilling-video-emerges-of-flight-mh17-before-take-off/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPFacebook&utm_medium=SocialFlow (http://nypost.com/2014/07/18/chilling-video-emerges-of-flight-mh17-before-take-off/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPFacebook&utm_medium=SocialFlow)
Chilling video emerges of Flight MH17 before takeoff
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Samantha Power @AmbassadorPower 2m
Need unfettered, independent investigation. Separatists must agree to immediate ceasefire—we must stop at nothing to bring perps to justice.
Right. I'm sure they are all shaking in their shoes.
This is an act of war, not a 7-Eleven robbery. And just who the frack is this "we" she speaks of??
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This is an act of war, not a 7-Eleven robbery.
And war is what we may get.
Don't be surprised if the U.S. is being set up to take a fall...
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And war is what we may get.
Don't be surprised if the U.S. is being set up to take a fall...
With the gutless wonders we have in charge you are probably right. The Administration is going into "Blame Putin" mode and are only concerned about how all of this makes Obama look, not what is best for the US.
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I am having a hard time understanding why no one can confirm the initial report of 23 Americans on board, especially more than 24 hours later...
NATIONALITIES OF THE MH17 VICTIMS
Netherlands: 173
Malaysia: 44
Australia: 27
Indonesia: 12
UK: 9
Germany: 4
Belgium: 4
Philippines: 3
Canada: 1
New Zealand: 1
Unverified: 20
Heck, the last part of that Daily Mail article that Myst posted above is FILLED with bios and pictures of dozens upon dozens of the other victims, from all over the world..... But not one iota about any possible American passengers. I just can't figure out how that is possible, unless it is being deliberately suppressed. Only reason as to "why" I can come up with is that by keeping the Americans (if there are indeed any) out of the "news" for a couple of days, lessens the "heat" in the kitchen. Eventually it will come out, but in a couple of days this story will die down and be replaced by the next crisis/tragedy to emerge. (Heck, it is almost like the Southern border invasion never happened at this point.) :shrug:
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I am having a hard time understanding why no one can confirm the initial report of 23 Americans on board, especially more than 24 hours later...
I read somewhere that there were no U.S. passports used to board and they were looking for dual-citizenship possibilities now.
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Terry Moran @TerryMoran 1m
BREAKING: Shots fired by rebels at international team of investigators (OSCE) in Ukraine as they approach plane wreckage,
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I read somewhere that there were no U.S. passports used to board and they were looking for dual-citizenship possibilities now.
OK, makes more sense. I guess that Reuters report of 23 Americans should have been taken with a larger grain of salt... thanks.
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OK, makes more sense. I guess that Reuters report of 23 Americans should have been taken with a larger grain of salt... thanks.
One U.S. citizen confirmed killed on doomed Flight MH17 and State Department is checking for more American victims (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2697477/No-U-S-passports-passengers-doomed-Flight-17-State-Department-checking-dual-citizens.html)
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http://thehill.com/policy/defense/212693-pentagon-strains-credulity-to-believe-rebels-acted-without-russian-help (http://thehill.com/policy/defense/212693-pentagon-strains-credulity-to-believe-rebels-acted-without-russian-help)
Pentagon: ‘Strains credulity’ to believe rebels acted without Russian help
By Kristina Wong - 07/18/14 02:28 PM EDT
Pentagon officials on Friday said it “strains credulity” to believe that rebel forces in Ukraine could fire a surface-to-air missile and down a passenger jet without Russian help.
It “strains credulity that it [the missile system] could be used by separatists ... without some measure of Russian support and assistance," said Pentagon press secretary Rear Adm. John Kirby.
The Obama administration on Friday pointed the finger at Russia for the crash of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which officials believe was downed by a surface-to-air missile fired from territory controlled by pro-Russian militants in Ukraine. The jetliner crashed on Thursday, killing all of the nearly 300 onboard.
President Obama earlier Friday stopped short of directly charging that Russian separatists fired the missile, but his comments suggested U.S. intelligence is nearing that conclusion.
Kirby said the Pentagon had “very strong evidence” that a surface-to-air missile from an SA-11 Russian-built system was fired from separatist-controlled territory.
Pro-Russian militias in Ukraine have been fighting Kiev for greater autonomy following Moscow’s annexation by force of the Crimean region. Those forces are believed to have received significant military support from Russia, including tanks, armored personnel carriers, trucks and other "major equipment."
"There is no hint that Russian support for the separatists has ceased," said Kirby. "We believe that there is Russian support for the separatists inside Ukraine."
Kirby said the U.S. does not have evidence of a particular SA-11 system crossing the border from Russia but said such weapons transfers could easily have been hidden.
"We're not ruling anything in or out at this point," he said.
Gen. Philip Breedlove, NATO Supreme Allied Commander - Europe told Pentagon reporters several weeks ago that some of the separatists have received training from Russians on vehicle-borne anti-aircraft systems.
Kirby said he did not have any "great visibility" into who exactly downed two Ukrainian military planes earlier in the week.
"It's doing nothing to de-escalate the crisis in Ukraine," he continued.
Kirby also repeated U.S. calls for an immediate cease-fire between the separatists and Ukrainian forces to allow international investigators to safely access the crash site.
Kirby said the Pentagon doesn't know who has the plane's black box at this time, crucial evidence for investigators to determine what happened to the jet.
The Pentagon also said there was no sign that Russia was pulling back military forces amid the new crisis. Up to 12,000 Russian forces are still positioned by Ukraine's southeastern border and continue to grow "week by week," he said.
"They're very ready. It's a very capable force," he added.
The U.S. is continuing to provide nonlethal support to Ukrainian forces, including packaged meals, radios, body armor, first aid kits, sleeping mats, night vision goggles, Kevlar helmets and explosive detection devices.