The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: KingsX on October 14, 2017, 02:25:40 am
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GOP Scrooges say their tax cuts for rich oligarchs must be finished by Christmas... coal for Tiny Tim.
" Paul Ryan Threatens to Cancel Christmas If Republicans Don’t Fall in Line "
" Speaking at a Heritage Foundation event Thursday, Ryan told the crowd, “We're going to keep people here for Christmas if we have to. I don’t care. We have to get this done.”
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/10/paul-ryan-threatens-to-cancel-christmas-if-republicans-dont-fall-in-line
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This quote from the topic article is quite amusing...
" As young Republicans in the schoolyard, this is the sort of thing these people daydreamed about; later, as undergrads, beneath posters of Ronald Reagan tacked to their walls, they would tell their suite-mates about their plans to go to Washington and write laws transferring trillions to the rich. As young twentysomethings, they wondered why their blind date with a sick grandmother never came back from the bathroom after being told,
“My tax dollars are paying for your Nana’s dialysis.”
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KInda surprised the Heritage Foundation would actually invite Ryan, instead of a conservative speaker.
Ryan has a lifetime rating of only 58% by Heritage, making him in the bottom half of GOP ratings.
For some reason, his current rating is N/A. Don't know what that means.
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Fake wealth envious new member posts same crap. If you cut taxes you cut taxes for wealthy by definition.
Our fake conservative new member sounds like. Bernie Nancy etc.
The GOP's proposed tax cuts for the rich has initiated class warfare.
The war will not be pretty... and the GOP will lose.
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The GOP's proposed tax cuts for the rich has initiated class warfare.
The war will not be pretty... and the GOP will lose.
You represent the low class takers well speaking your democrat lines.
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I think I've seen that movie. The Doofus Who Stole Christmas starring Paul Ryan.
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I think I've seen that movie. The Doofus Who Stole Christmas starring Paul Ryan.
hmm...maybe Cruz can come over from the Senate and entertain them with some "Green Eggs and Ham"!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9O1pbFjj4o
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You represent the low class takers well speaking your democrat lines.
And you symbolize the rich oligarch elite who tells the unwashed masses to eat cake.
As history has proven over and over and over again, that never ends well.
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And you symbolize the rich oligarch elite who tells the unwashed masses to eat cake.
As history has proven over and over and over again, that never ends well.
I tell everybody to work hard, and keep your earnings.
I buy and eat my cake. You buy and eat your cake.
You want somebody else's cake for nothing.
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Wrong liberal troll.
I'm a Christian social conservative.
Once upon a time I might have made a decent Dixiecrat; but I wouldn't fare very well with the current racially religiously morally diverse liberal leftist Democrats.
The GOP has also abandoned their once middle-class Christian social conservative values and have recreated themselves as primarily a financially focused party that caters to the "haves" at the expense of the "have-nots" whatever their religious, moral or political beliefs.
Look at posters here for example... because I don't join the GOP's 'tax cuts for the rich' bandwagon, I have been repeatedly personally attacked. If I came here with different racial, religious or moral values, you probably would be more accepting of my "differences." But I have committed the GOP's unpardonable sin by attacking their rich oligarch holy of holies.
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I'm a Christian social conservative.
Once upon a time I might have made a decent Dixiecrat; but I wouldn't fare very well with the current racially religiously morally diverse liberal leftist Democrats.
The GOP has also abandoned their once middle-class Christian social conservative values and have recreated themselves as primarily a financially focused party that caters to the "haves" at the expense of the "have-nots" whatever their religious, moral or political beliefs.
Look at posters here for example... because I don't join the GOP's 'tax cuts for the rich' bandwagon, I have been repeatedly personally attacked. If I came here with different racial, religious or moral values, you probably would be more accepting of my "differences." But I have committed the GOP's unpardonable sin by attacking their rich oligarch holy of holies.
*****rollingeyes*****
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Dr. Thomas Sowell, on four previous tax cuts
Proving the rich wind up paying MORE in taxes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc-bELgAowU
aka known as take your fake conservative wealth envy back to democrats underground.
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aka known as take your fake conservative wealth envy back to democrats underground.
It is the GOP who has initiated class warfare by overtly promoting a huge tax cut windfall for rich oligarchs while hurting lower and middle income people.
Ironically, Trump first advocated a populist tax cut that would greatly benefit everyone... when he advocated both lower business taxes and very high standard deductions [$25.000 single/$50,000 married] that would have benefited lower and middle income people. But the GOP couldn't bear such a wonderful tax cut for the great unwashed masses. So being the robber barons they are, instead they promote raising taxes on many lower and middle income people to help pay for their tax cuts for rich oligarchs.
The GOP is slitting it's own throat... and ironically Trump has given them the means to do it.
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It is the GOP who has initiated class warfare by overtly promoting a huge tax cut windfall for rich oligarchs while hurting lower and middle income people.
The IRS has you in court over unpaid back taxes, don't they.
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The IRS has you in court over unpaid back taxes, don't they.
I have a feeling that's a brilliant perception, Frank.
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The IRS has you in court over unpaid back taxes, don't they.
The IRS would be on my side.
Can you imagine the headache it would be for the IRS to implement the GOP's crazy tax reforms.
And the GOP is still talking about making their tax reform retroactive to the beginning of 2017.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QU3SG1bbRQ
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Like Eisenhower, Kennedy also sent armed federal troops to force Southerners to become part of the liberal leftist cultural marxist brave new world. There was almost another civil war... almost.
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I'm not sure if I have retired, gone Galt, or am just taking a little time for myself. I do know that I'm not paying my "fair share" at the moment, so I certainly have no place to complain if the "rich" people get a tax break.
I believe tax cuts should go to the people who actually pay taxes.
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I'm a Christian social conservative.
Once upon a time I might have made a decent Dixiecrat; but I wouldn't fare very well with the current racially religiously morally diverse liberal leftist Democrats.
The GOP has also abandoned their once middle-class Christian social conservative values and have recreated themselves as primarily a financially focused party that caters to the "haves" at the expense of the "have-nots" whatever their religious, moral or political beliefs.
Look at posters here for example... because I don't join the GOP's 'tax cuts for the rich' bandwagon, I have been repeatedly personally attacked. If I came here with different racial, religious or moral values, you probably would be more accepting of my "differences." But I have committed the GOP's unpardonable sin by attacking their rich oligarch holy of holies.
Am interested in knowing why you believe the 'rich' deserve to pay in more taxes to run the government. Ill-gotten gains perhaps? And can you define the word 'rich'?
@KingsX
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@KingsX
@mystery-ak
Thanks for posting this KingsX. I know you, a fine conservative lady. The attackers are out of order, should not be attacking new members.
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And you symbolize the rich oligarch elite who tells the unwashed masses to eat cake.
As history has proven over and over and over again, that never ends well.
@KingsX
Let me tell you something. My inlaws might fit into your disdainful category---and why? Because they spent decades working their asses to the bone, taking financial risks, paying themselves such a small salary that it shocked an accountant...all so that they could build a tiny business into a large area employer. My mother-in-law doesn't work anymore, but my father-in-law is still hard at it....up every morning at four and keeping a pace that lots of younger guys couldn't keep up with.
He pays his employees well, benefits and all, and he'll give them interest-free loans if they need one. They donate heavily to their church---anonymously. Also to charity.
Whatever they have, they've damn well earned by their own sweat, and it belongs to them, not to the government. You have no right to their money. They're employing people and helping people while you sit there and sneer. What have you done with your life?
You reek of envy.
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So being the robber barons they are, instead they promote raising taxes on many lower and middle income people to help pay for their tax cuts for rich oligarchs.
@KingsX
@CatherineofAragon
As a senior, I will pay more. He is removing the deduction for seniors, and raising the tax rate on lower incomes from 10 to 12%. Plus, as started some years ago, seniors have to pay tax on some of their social security money which they paid into all their working years. Social security is not a give away program, the government took our money every month, now they are taxing part of it. Trump will pay less, we will pay more.
"The lowest bracket will increase from 10% to 12%, the middle bracket will be 25%, and the highest tax bracket will fall from 39.6% to 35%."
Yes, they want to get this passed before the year is up, and it is written, at this time, so it will become retroactive to January 1, 2017.
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So being the robber barons they are, instead they promote raising taxes on many lower and middle income people to help pay for their tax cuts for rich oligarchs.
Please explain how raising taxes 'pays' for anything.
You are equating an income source as an expense. It cannot be, as they are completely different.
@KingsX
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What the hell is a rich oligarch?
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What the hell is a rich oligarch?
In some people's mind, it is anyone who pays taxes that is not on welfare.
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Am interested in knowing why you believe the 'rich' deserve to pay in more taxes to run the government. Ill-gotten gains perhaps? And can you define the word 'rich'?
"straw man"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
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The IRS would be on my side.
Can you imagine the headache it would be for the IRS to implement the GOP's crazy tax reforms.
Your a clown. The tax code is a shitshow now. They're not going to give a rats ass what happens to it......and the IRS is never on your side on anything. You would know that if you were conversant on anything tax related, but alas you don't know shit.
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What the hell is a rich oligarch?
The term "oligarch" comes from a Greek word which basically means rule by a few.
The modern definition is a very rich business leader who has huge influence in politics and government policy.
The term "oligarch" became widely used in Russia after the fall of the USSR when factories and other industries were denationalized and bought up pennies on the dollar by unscrupulous men who became rich and powerful while the average Russian suffered and starved. Today oligarch billionaires [many of them not ethnic Russian] basically rule Russia and have also bought businesses [and political influence] in Western nations.
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Your a clown. The tax code is a shitshow now. They're not going to give a rats ass what happens to it......and the IRS is never on your side on anything. You would know that if you were conversant on anything tax related, but alas you don't know shit.
I stick by what I posted...
The GOP has said they want their byzantine change in tax law retroactive to the beginning of 2017.
Such drastic changes in tax law in a short time period would be a headache for the IRS... not to mention all the private tax accounts/consultants and tax computer programs.
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--Envy of the rich, successful, productive providers of many jobs, that pay taxes
--Trolling for "earned income credits," for people that pay no income taxes to begin with
WTF does Russia have to do with anything concerning the USA today?
Oh wait. the breakup of the USSR meant the end of the communist paradise, and communists the world over began moaning about the "rich oligarchs" that took over.
Eg. Longing for the goode olde dayes, when a Ruble was worth a Ruble, and most everybody was "equal," etc.
And there were no "rich oligarchs" yet
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The term "oligarch" comes from a Greek word which basically means rule by a few.
The modern definition is a very rich business leader who has huge influence in politics and government policy.
The term "oligarch" became widely used in Russia after the fall of the USSR when factories and other industries were denationalized and bought up pennies on the dollar by unscrupulous men who became rich and powerful while the average Russian suffered and starved. Today oligarch billionaires [many of them not ethnic Russian] basically rule Russia and have also bought businesses [and political influence] in Western nations.
This isn't Russia. We have "class mobility." It's been well documented, many people who start in the lowest quintile of income hav been in the highest quintile by the time they retire. Additionally, many people who start in the highest quintile find themselves in the lowest quintile by the time they expire.
What happened in Russia is simply not a good analogy to what happens here. At least not yet.
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What the hell is a rich oligarch?
A Democrat
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This whole 'tax cut for the rich' line we hear from liberals every time one is proposed would be funny if it wasn't so old and people didn't buy it. They use that claim every time, now they just have kicked it up.
I recall the big tax cuts put in place in 2002. A vast majority of the cuts went to the lowest income brackets with the very bottom bracket being moved to 0% plus moving into the EITC range so they were getting more than 100% tax cut. While, someone in the top tax bracket received about a 2% cut.
The dems cried and screamed 'tax cut for the rich' even with that. They used examples that a person who made a million dollars could buy a car with their tax cut while someone who earned 18K could buy a cart of groceries. Typical manipulation of how the numbers are perceived and didn't account for how much is paid in.
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"straw man"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Seriously? That is all you got?
You cannot express why someone you call 'rich' should pay more in taxes, and cannot even define 'rich'.
You have zero credibility, and everything you say is rejected.
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Seriously? That is all you got?
You cannot express why someone you call 'rich' should pay more in taxes, and cannot even define 'rich'.
You have zero credibility, and everything you say is rejected.
For the record, I did not agree with that characterization of your post.
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WTF does Russia have to do with anything concerning the USA today?
Oh wait. the breakup of the USSR meant the end of the communist paradise, and communists the world over began moaning about the "rich oligarchs" that took over.
What an ironic question considering all the government investigative committees on Russian influence on the US election. There is also the recent revelation about Russian ads on American social media.
The Soviet Union was ruled by an executive Communist committee [the Politburo] which was similar to a privileged oligarchy.
Communists had no problem becoming oligarch capitalists.
Red China the new global capitalist powerhouse is still officially Communist and ruled over by a Communist oligarchy.
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What an ironic question considering all the government investigative committees on Russian influence on the US election. There is also the recent revelation about Russian ads on American social media.
The Soviet Union was ruled by an executive Communist committee [the Politburo] which was similar to a privileged oligarchy.
Communists had no problem becoming oligarch capitalists.
Red China the new global capitalist powerhouse is still officially Communist and ruled over by a Communist oligarchy.
Name our American oligarchs so I can destroy that argument for you.
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This whole 'tax cut for the rich' line we hear from liberals every time one is proposed would be funny if it wasn't so old and people didn't buy it.
A tax cut that primarily benefits the rich while hurting others making low and middle incomes is exactly what the GOP has proposed. Instead of dealing with the fallout, many keep denying that truth.
Deny all you want... but if the GOP's abomination is passed, the GOP will have hell to pay. Ironically, if the GOP's abomination is not passed, the GOP will still have hell to pay. The GOP has become its own worst enemy and has put itself in a lose/lose situation.
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A tax cut that primarily benefits the rich while hurting others making low and middle incomes is exactly what the GOP has proposed. Instead of dealing with the fallout, many keep denying that truth.
Deny all you want... but if the GOP's abomination is passed, the GOP will have hell to pay. Ironically, if the GOP's abomination is not passed, the GOP will still have hell to pay. The GOP has become its own worst enemy and has put itself in a lose/lose situation.
Provide a source for the specific numbers that show this, not just an 'opinion' article.
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Provide a source for the specific numbers that show this, not just an 'opinion' article.
I have posted specifics on this forum many times.
Look at the GOP's proposed three tax rates... the tax rate for the highest incomes will decrease almost 5% while the tax rate for the lowest incomes will increase 2%.
The current different standard deductions and personal exemptions will be rolled into one GOP standard deduction [$12,000 single/$24,000 married couple] and who knows if that is indexed for inflation. The GOP's arbitrary standard deduction will hurt many with low and middle incomes in 2018, especially single seniors over 65 and single head of household parents who currently get a higher standard deduction plus personal exemptions all indexed for inflation [the child tax credit that the GOP says they might increase is not indexed for inflation.]
Here is more info
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/29/us/politics/republican-tax-cut-would-benefit-wealthy-and-corporations-most-report-finds.html
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/09/29/us/politics/trump-tax-plan-analysis.html
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The GOP's proposed tax cuts for the rich has initiated class warfare.
The war will not be pretty... and the GOP will lose.
Is that you, Hillary?? :pondering:
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I tell everybody to work hard, and keep your earnings.
I buy and eat my cake. You buy and eat your cake.
You want somebody else's cake for nothing.
:amen:
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Is that you, Hillary?? :pondering:
No
Hillary is the one over there laughing...
while she sits back relaxing... the GOP
is busy committing political suicide.
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There's something to agree on: Hillary is a "sitter," not a "doer." It's why she is also a "loser."
As for the GOP committing suicide by "doing," there are those who would declare that any course of action is suicide, no matter what it is they do. May as well do what they think is right if they're going to get punished either way.
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No
Hillary is the one over there laughing...
while she sits back relaxing... the GOP
is busy committing political suicide.
Actually, you are here attacking one of the few things the GOP has said that's actually a conservative concept.
And agreeing with the left on the bogus "tax cut for the rich" line.
Just like Hillary does.
Watching you worry for the IRS, however, is kind of amusing. ^-^
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Seriously? That is all you got?
You cannot express why someone you call 'rich' should pay more in taxes, and cannot even define 'rich'.
You have zero credibility, and everything you say is rejected.
That generally describes trolls regardless of subject matter.
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Here's something else that needs watching:
" The Nearly Invisible Trump Tax Plan Proposal That Could Threaten Social Security
A little-noticed provision in tax reform "
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/10/14/the-nearly-invisible-trump-tax-plan-proposal-that.aspx
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Actually, you are here attacking one of the few things the GOP has said that's actually a conservative concept.
And agreeing with the left on the bogus "tax cut for the rich" line.
Neo-cons define conservatism as financial.
Old fashioned conservatives like me define conservatism as social.
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Neo-cons define conservatism as financial.
Old fashioned conservatives like me define conservatism as social.
ROFLOL!!
You're talking to an across the board conservative, dear.
Social, fiscal, small government.
NO one who uses the words, "tax cuts for the rich" is conservative.
Sorry.
(But I DO love the tired old, idiotic "neo-con" ad hominem. Kinda cute. ^-^)
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For the record, I did not agree with that characterization of your post.
Don't know what records you are taking, but what do you object to anyway? I asked the poster to define what he posted and he smart-assed/
He offered no data to support what he claimed. He is just throwing stuff to the wall to see if it will stick, without substance.
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Here's something else that needs watching:
" The Nearly Invisible Trump Tax Plan Proposal That Could Threaten Social Security
A little-noticed provision in tax reform "
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/10/14/the-nearly-invisible-trump-tax-plan-proposal-that.aspx
Here's a Ron Paul quote about the GOP's tax plan and "Chained CPI"
" The framework also contains a stealth tax increase imposed via the chained consumer price index (chained CPI). Supporters of chained CPI clam the government is currently overstating inflation. The truth is exactly the opposite: government statistics are manipulated to understate inflation.
Chained CPI enhances the government’s ability to lie about inflation. One way it does so is by claiming that inflation does not lower our standard of living if we can substitute cheaper goods for goods made unaffordable by inflation. So inflation does not harm you if you can’t afford a steak dinner as long as you can still buy a cheeseburger.
Chained CPI allows the government to take maximum advantage of “bracket creep,” where individuals are pushed into higher tax brackets not because they are actually earning more money, but because inflation creates the illusion they are wealthier. In fact, by decreasing their purchasing power, inflation makes most people poorer. The inflation tax thus raises taxes on declining incomes. It is hidden and regressive, making it the most insidious of all taxes. "
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2017/october/09/will-tax-reform-increase-or-limit-liberty/
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Don't know what records you are taking, but what do you object to anyway? I asked the poster to define what he posted and he smart-assed/
He offered no data to support what he claimed. He is just throwing stuff to the wall to see if it will stick, without substance.
@IsailedawayfromFR
You misunderstood, I think. I was disagreeing your argument was a strawman. It was not, it was a good question that was dodged by the person who called it a strawman. Sorry.
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I'm not sure if I have retired, gone Galt, or am just taking a little time for myself. I do know that I'm not paying my "fair share" at the moment, so I certainly have no place to complain if the "rich" people get a tax break.
I believe tax cuts should go to the people who actually pay taxes.
Thank you for recognizing we don't just get to take from someone else whatever we want.
I have tenants who've asked why their rent keeps going up. My response puzzles most of them. I tell them, "my taxes have gone up, the fees I have to pay have increased, and regulations are becoming more expensive to comply with."
People don't understand I'm in business to make a profit. When I can't make a profit renting the apartments in buildings I own I will convert them to condo's and take the capital and put it into something else.
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Thank you for recognizing we don't just get to take from someone else whatever we want.
I have tenants who've asked why their rent keeps going up. My response puzzles most of them. I tell them, "my taxes have gone up, the fees I have to pay have increased, and regulations are becoming more expensive to comply with."
People don't understand I'm in business to make a profit. When I can't make a profit renting the apartments in buildings I own I will convert them to condo's and take the capital and put it into something else.
@bilo
Add to that owning such properties in a major college town with tons of "dormitories", all constructed with tax money and without the need to jump through ANY government hoops to construct, that can be and are rented for less than your breakeven point and you get where I am!
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Thank you for recognizing we don't just get to take from someone else whatever we want.
Tell that to the government that not only demands part of our income...
sometimes it demands our labor and our life [as in a military draft.]
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IF this 'tax cut' does indeed raise taxes on seniors and the poor and doesn't help the middle class a whole lot and helps the rich; don't expect the GOP to keep their majority in either chamber.
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Tell that to the government that not only demands part of our income...
sometimes it demands our labor and our life [as in a military draft.]
The fact that you use the Government as your preferred weapon of theft doesn't get you off the hook for your moral failure of envy.
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And there hasn't been a draft since before I was born, but hey, it could happen I guess.
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@bilo
Add to that owning such properties in a major college town with tons of "dormitories", all constructed with tax money and without the need to jump through ANY government hoops to construct, that can be and are rented for less than your breakeven point and you get where I am!
I do get it! You're fighting with both hands tied behind your back against the heavyweight champion.
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And there hasn't been a draft since before I was born, but hey, it could happen I guess.
What the hell are you talkin' 'bout Willis? I can get a draft at 95% of the bars in this country....
(https://secure.surveymonkey.com/_resources/11170/11471170/80cf8ef0-10f7-46ed-9850-3df36a9616ba.jpg)
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What the hell are you talkin' 'bout Willis? I can get a draft at 95% of the bars in this country....
(https://secure.surveymonkey.com/_resources/11170/11471170/80cf8ef0-10f7-46ed-9850-3df36a9616ba.jpg)
Yuck, beer. It's worse than Gatoraide, and that's saying a lot.
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Tell that to the government that not only demands part of our income...
sometimes it demands our labor and our life [as in a military draft.]
Oh come on, we haven't had a draft since the Vietnam War.
From your posts you've made it clear that you don't believe people in the top 10% should get a tax break. One of the things that is killing the USA is the people who don't pay taxes are a large enough voting block that politicians cater to them. So as they "demand" more free stuff those that are productive have more of their money taken from them. Socialism works until you run out of other peoples money.
The fairest approach to federal income taxes would be a flat rate, or a national sales tax. It won't happen though because to many people want things that they don't have to pay for.
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The fact that you use the Government as your preferred weapon of theft doesn't get you off the hook for your moral failure of envy.
:amen:
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Yuck, beer. It's worse than Gatoraide, and that's saying a lot.
I'm a single malt scotch drinker so I concur. Beer is so low brow. As a matter of fact they make a beer called that....
(http://www.cyprusbeermaniacs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/lowenbrau05.jpg)
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I do get it! You're fighting with both hands tied behind your back against the heavyweight champion.
@bilo
Government at ANY level should not ever be in competition with the private sector! It is completely unamerican!
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@bilo
Government at ANY level should not ever be in competition with the private sector! It is completely unamerican!
I'm with you!
What you see over and over again is where govt gets into competition with private business quality disappears, innovation slows, regulations grow dramatically and the costs climb for the consumer.
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@IsailedawayfromFR
You misunderstood, I think. I was disagreeing your argument was a strawman. It was not, it was a good question that was dodged by the person who called it a strawman. Sorry.
No, I apologize for the misinterpretation.
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No, I apologize for the misinterpretation.
:beer:
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I'm with you!
What you see over and over again is where govt gets into competition with private business quality disappears, innovation slows, regulations grow dramatically and the costs climb for the consumer.
@bilo
And the tax base shrinks! They are killing the golden goose and I personally don't think it is by accident!
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And there hasn't been a draft since before I was born, but hey, it could happen I guess.
It could happen anytime the government wants it to happen...
the next war perhaps... and this time women will be drafted.
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IF this 'tax cut' does indeed raise taxes on seniors and the poor and doesn't help the middle class a whole lot and helps the rich; don't expect the GOP to keep their majority in either chamber.
The IRS will soon announce the official increased amounts of the standard deductions [there are currently several standard deductions] and personal exemption for 2018 [those amounts usually increase every year because they are indexed for inflation.]
Based on unofficial projections by financial gurus of those inflation adjusted 2018 amounts... I personally would have $12,250.00 tax exempt and a 10% tax rate under current tax law. But the proposed GOP "tax cut" will only give me $12,000 tax exempt with a 12% tax rate. Even if the current 2017 IRS amounts don't increase for 2018 [which they will], I would still be paying more of my low income in taxes under the GOP proposed tax plan in 2018.