The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: Silver Pines on November 22, 2017, 05:59:12 pm
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Pastor says Roy Moore was seeking the 'purity of a young woman'
BY Jessica Chia
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 3:54 AM
A pastor defended embattled Senate candidate Roy Moore, saying the controversial judge, who is accused of pursuing teenage girls as young as 14, was seeking the “purity of a young woman.â€
Pastor Flip Benham told radio hosts Matt Murphy and Andrea Lindenberg on the "Matt and Aunie" show that Moore’s service in Vietnam left him pressed for choice when he returned and pursued a law degree.
“All of the ladies, or many of the ladies that he possibly could have married, were not available then, they were already married, maybe, somewhere,†Benham said.
And so Moore was forced to “look in a different direction,†according to Benham, who went on to note the judge’s wife Kayla Moore is a “younger woman.â€
EXCERPT: Read more at link below.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/pastor-roy-moore-seeking-purity-young-woman-article-1.3650365 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/pastor-roy-moore-seeking-purity-young-woman-article-1.3650365)
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18 and 19 are teenagers, and quite legal. The pastor is pretty short on specifics other than his own opinions.
Nice switcheroo though. Still loving the swirling smoke and vapors of the jr. high cheerleader gossip circle I see.
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18 and 19 are teenagers, and quite legal. The pastor is pretty short on specifics other than his own opinions.
Nice switcheroo though. Still loving the swirling smoke and vapors of the jr. high cheerleader gossip circle I see.
@Free Vulcan
Neither the pastor nor the article said anything about 18 or 19, so why are you? Swirling smoke, indeed.
So another one for the circular file, right? Got it, lol.
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@Free Vulcan
Neither the pastor nor the article said anything about 18 or 19, so why are you? Swirling smoke, indeed.
So another one for the circular file, right? Got it, lol.
He really says nothing at all, but you are trying to make it something. Not just a desperate narrative, but a second hand one at that, again.
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I don't like Roy Moore, nor do I like the idea of him creeping on 16 year olds. Thank heavens most of us don't have to vote in Alabama this year. But the fact of the matter is the age of consent is 16 in thirty one states, DC, and most of the island territories. Eight other states use the age of 17. People should agitate for raising the age of consent if they believe such relations should be illegal.
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I don't like Roy Moore, nor do I like the idea of him creeping on 16 year olds. Thank heavens most of us don't have to vote in Alabama this year. But the fact of the matter is the age of consent is 16 in thirty one states, DC, and most of the island territories. Eight other states use the age of 17. People should agitate for raising the age of consent if they believe such relations should be illegal.
I met my wife when she was 16, and I was 18.
We married one year later at 17 and 19 years of age. (In January we celebrate 50 yrs. of marriage)
*My wife just reminded me to avoid politics over TG dinner tomorrow with my whacko liberal younger sister.
Never been married herself, but nonetheless considers herself competent to weigh in. Typican know--it-all liberal.
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I met my wife when she was 16, and I was 18.
We married one year later at 17 and 19 years of age. (In January we celebrate 50 yrs. of marriage)
*My wife just reminded me to avoid politics over TG dinner tomorrow with my whacko liberal younger sister.
Never been married herself, but nonetheless considers herself competent to weigh in. Typican know--it-all liberal.
You beat us to the alter by two months! Otherwise the exact same!
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Heaven forbid, the man had standards.
The poster would rather have people like him—people like me, even—date white trash, or be stuck alone.
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He really says nothing at all, but you are trying to make it something. Not just a desperate narrative, but a second hand one at that, again.
@Free Vulcan
Again, the ages mentioned in the article are 14 and 16, so why did you bring up 18 and 19? Why the attempt at smoke and vapors, as you put it?
I didn't write the article. Are you saying this friend of Moore's is lying? Why? Or was he paid off, too? The pastor made a clear statement, so it's certainly not "nothing at all."
Why is a pastor more likely to lie than a politician?
And to the title of the article---what's your opinion about Moore dating young girls for their "purity?"
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with my whacko liberal younger sister.
Never been married herself, but nonetheless considers herself competent to weigh in. Typican know--it-all liberal.
If you've studied these demographics for a long enough time, you begin to notice there are correlations between married women and conservatism and unmarried women and liberalism.
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I don't like Roy Moore, nor do I like the idea of him creeping on 16 year olds. Thank heavens most of us don't have to vote in Alabama this year. But the fact of the matter is the age of consent is 16 in thirty one states, DC, and most of the island territories. Eight other states use the age of 17. People should agitate for raising the age of consent if they believe such relations should be illegal.
@cato potatoe
That's true. But the fact remains that a man in his thirties who only wants girls that age, and who hangs out trying to pick them up, is not normal.
The most serious issue is the 14 year old.
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Heaven forbid, the man had standards.
The poster would rather have people like him—people like me, even—date white trash, or be stuck alone.
@jmyrlefuller
This is satire, right? No, forget it, I know it isn't.
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I see that Judge Moore's friends and admirers are helping him about as much as Donald Trump's fans are helping him.
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@cato potatoe
That's true. But the fact remains that a man in his thirties who only wants girls that age, and who hangs out trying to pick them up, is not normal.
The most serious issue is the 14 year old.
The 14 year old story has been debunked by multiple posts on multiple threads
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The 14 year old story has been debunked by multiple posts on multiple threads
@RetBobbyMI
LOL
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@Free Vulcan
Again, the ages mentioned in the article are 14 and 16, so why did you bring up 18 and 19? Why the attempt at smoke and vapors, as you put it?
I didn't write the article. Are you saying this friend of Moore's is lying? Why? Or was he paid off, too? The pastor made a clear statement, so it's certainly not "nothing at all."
Why is a pastor more likely to lie than a politician?
And to the title of the article---what's your opinion about Moore dating young girls for their "purity?"
According to him, but again second hand. What he says is little more than musings, but he never comes out and actually says much of anything. You just want to see and believe, despite copious proof that Corfman and Young are lying.
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@Free Vulcan
... And to the title of the article---what's your opinion about Moore dating young girls for their "purity?"
LOL. It mattered back then. Why do you think Diana got the nod? :laugh:
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I see that Judge Moore's friends and admirers are helping him about as much as Donald Trump's fans are helping him.
I agree with you. He is likely going to win.
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I agree with you. He is likely going to win.
That says a lot about Alabama. How old is 14 in sheep years?
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That says a lot about Alabama. How old is 14 in sheep years?
That whole 14 year old thing has been debunked several times already! But thanks for playing!
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Roy Moore Dated ‘Younger Ladies’ For Their ‘Purity,’
He dated them but he never gave them his "essence". So he has that going for him.
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That whole 14 year old thing has been debunked several times already! But thanks for playing!
You're welcome! I keep reading that this story has been "debunked", but I have not yet found any evidence to support that claim. Do you happen to have a link to a reputable news site (i.e. - not Trumpway Trumpet or Trumpbart)? Thanks!
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LOL. It mattered back then. Why do you think Diana got the nod? :laugh:
@Right_in_Virginia
Uh-huh. So if a thirty year old man wanted to date your teenaged daughter for her purity, you'd have no problem with that.
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Roy Moore Dated ‘Younger Ladies’ For Their ‘Purity,’
He dated them but he never gave them his "essence". So he has that going for him.
@WineNot
*shudder*
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According to him, but again second hand. What he says is little more than musings, but he never comes out and actually says much of anything. You just want to see and believe, despite copious proof that Corfman and Young are lying.
@Free Vulcan
He made a direct statement, as pointed out earlier. And you didn't respond to my direct questions.
It's just one more in a tall stack of someone else lying about Moore.
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I see that Judge Moore's friends and admirers are helping him about as much as Donald Trump's fans are helping him.
Yeah........... his 'friends' who are speaking up should just shut up.
This "Pastor Friend" is no friend at all for making these comments.
It just makes Moore look worse to those who are still trying to figure out what the heck this guy did in his 30's and why.....
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That says a lot about Alabama. How old is 14 in sheep years?
:silly: :silly:
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@jmyrlefuller
This is satire, right? No, forget it, I know it isn't.
Why, oh why, do you want people to be lonely?
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@jmyrlefuller
This is satire, right? No, forget it, I know it isn't.
Never mind; you wouldn't understand what I meant.
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Why, oh why, do you want people to be lonely?
@Once-Ler
I'm thinking that this is what I get for years of defending the South and trying to explain that we aren't backward. After all of that---Roy Moore happens.
@jmyrlefuller, if you can still see my posts, I like you and I didn't deliberately set out to be antagonistic with you. But if you look at the forum, the pro-Moore articles dominate. There aren't many of us posting articles to the contrary, even though most reasonable people have come to the conclusion that there's a problem with Moore, at least to some degree or other.
It's reached the point here that the dogged defense of Moore is at TOS levels. I've seen posts over there demanding that Jim crack down on "anti-Moore" sentiment. If some of you had your way, it would happen here, too. I have no doubt of it.
When I came here, it was my impression that this place was filled with thinkers. I haven't seen much of that lately from the people who are in tribalistic denial over Moore. I said at the beginning that if he was innocent, I hoped he would sue the Post and win. That's in black and white in my posting history, despite the slack-jawed accusations that I'm a liberal and I "want" the charges to be true. I haven't seen much of that from you all, though. From the beginning, from the standpoint of many here, Moore has been the only truthteller among a crowd of liars and sluts.
Now? The evidence coming out against him has me convinced that he's guilty. I would hope that the men on this forum who are outraged over the fact that I won't back down from my opinion can get over it. This isn't TOS, and I am not the kind of person who can be shouted down. I thought I was supposed to be the weaker sex, so don't prove me wrong by continuing to be unable to deal with my point of view without getting so ridiculously upset, and by characterizing my disagreement as a "jihad." It's stupid emotionalism.
If you really can't take it, I may be talking to myself by the time this wraps up, after all the ignore buttons have been hit. And believe me, I'm fine with that.
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Never mind; you wouldn't understand what I meant.
@jmyrlefuller
Unfortunately, I do.
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@Once-Ler
I'm thinking that this is what I get for years of defending the South and trying to explain that we aren't backward. After all of that---Roy Moore happens.
@jmyrlefuller, if you can still see my posts, I like you and I didn't deliberately set out to be antagonistic with you. But if you look at the forum, the pro-Moore articles dominate. There aren't many of us posting articles to the contrary, even though most reasonable people have come to the conclusion that there's a problem with Moore, at least to some degree or other.
It's reached the point here that the dogged defense of Moore is at TOS levels. I've seen posts over there demanding that Jim crack down on "anti-Moore" sentiment. If some of you had your way, it would happen here, too. I have no doubt of it.
When I came here, it was my impression that this place was filled with thinkers. I haven't seen much of that lately from the people who are in tribalistic denial over Moore. I said at the beginning that if he was innocent, I hoped he would sue the Post and win. That's in black and white in my posting history, despite the slack-jawed accusations that I'm a liberal and I "want" the charges to be true. I haven't seen much of that from you all, though. From the beginning, from the standpoint of many here, Moore has been the only truthteller among a crowd of liars and sluts.
Now? The evidence coming out against him has me convinced that he's guilty. I would hope that the men on this forum who are outraged over the fact that I won't back down from my opinion can get over it. This isn't TOS, and I am not the kind of person who can be shouted down. I thought I was supposed to be the weaker sex, so don't prove me wrong by continuing to be unable to deal with my point of view without getting so ridiculously upset, and by characterizing my disagreement as a "jihad." It's stupid emotionalism.
If you really can't take it, I may be talking to myself by the time this wraps up, after all the ignore buttons have been hit. And believe me, I'm fine with that.
goopo
I've seen shades of TOS in the angry responses to ANY questions about Moore, as well.
And as more "friends" speak up on his behalf, it looks more and more like he is guilty, IMO.
Keep up the thoughtful questions and information, @CatherineofAragon . It is appreciated.
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Sounds like your scenario on things is just about right, @Smokin Joe ...
Folks just gotta put the worst spin on it possible :shrug:
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Sounds like your scenario on things is just about right, @Smokin Joe ...
Folks just gotta put the worst spin on it possible :shrug:
There's been a lot of spinnin' on the other side as well.......
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Not helping..
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There's been a lot of spinnin' on the other side as well.......
I sure don't see it.
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I sure don't see it.
I sure do.
People working very hard to dismiss everything said (including this dopey "pastor friend") without considering that it might mean something.
I just wonder why a few of the fellers here are so dogmatic about things they don't yet know.
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I sure do.
People working very hard to dismiss everything said (including this dopey "pastor friend") without considering that it might mean something.
I just wonder why a few of the fellers here are so dogmatic about things they don't yet know.
It ain't what I don't know, but what I do - Moore has conducted himself with honor as long as he has been in public life. Not a single whiff of this sort of thing in all that time. Stripping him of that honor should take more than gossip and whispers. If I am being dogmatic, that is why. All it takes for me to remove my support is proof. There is none. Not just little, but *none*.
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It ain't what I don't know, but what I do - Moore has conducted himself with honor as long as he has been in public life. Not a single whiff of this sort of thing in all that time. Stripping him of that honor should take more than gossip and whispers. If I am being dogmatic, that is why. All it takes for me to remove my support is proof. There is none. Not just little, but *none*.
I'm sorry, but as a mother who has raised daughters, I find this friend's supposed testimonial on Moore's behalf extremely disturbing.
A thirty something man wanting to date my 16 year old daughter because she's "pure?"
That should be disturbing to any parent.
And yet it won't faze those who are seemingly emotionally in need of defending him.
There is something very wrong with the things being said in his defense. I'm still withholding final judgment, but the more I hear the more disturbing this man's ethics become.
And again........... these are not gossipy accusers. These are the people who think he's done nothing wrong. :shrug:
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It ain't what I don't know, but what I do - Moore has conducted himself with honor as long as he has been in public life. Not a single whiff of this sort of thing in all that time. Stripping him of that honor should take more than gossip and whispers. If I am being dogmatic, that is why. All it takes for me to remove my support is proof. There is none. Not just little, but *none*.
Moore has no honor.
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You're welcome! I keep reading that this story has been "debunked", but I have not yet found any evidence to support that claim. Do you happen to have a link to a reputable news site (i.e. - not Trumpway Trumpet or Trumpbart)? Thanks!
I might but first you must tell me what you consider to be a "reputable" news site these days! Will only the NY Times, The WaPo, or SE BS do it for you?
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Moore has no honor.
According to one who doesn't know the meaning of the word and has repeatedly demonstrated that fact on this very site!
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According to one who doesn't know the meaning of the word and has repeatedly demonstrated that fact on this very site!
????????
Who's taken over your identity, Bigun?
You're saying @kevindavis has no honor??
That's ridiculous, and so far from the truth that it hurts.
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THIS is what I'm talking about.
Why the loss of emotional control on this subject?? Why the need to smear people you DO know for someone you DON'T know??
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I sure do.
People working very hard to dismiss everything said (including this dopey "pastor friend") without considering that it might mean something.
I just wonder why a few of the fellers here are so dogmatic about things they don't yet know.
@musiclady I posted a vid in the thread Stone Roy Moore. Have a look at it and let me know
what you think.
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,292221.msg1522732/topicseen.html#msg1522732
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????????
Who's taken over your identity, Bigun?
You're saying @kevindavis has no honor??
That's ridiculous, and so far from the truth that it hurts.
No one has taken over my identity and I said EXACTLY what I meant to say!
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I'm sorry, but as a mother who has raised daughters, I find this friend's supposed testimonial on Moore's behalf extremely disturbing.
A thirty something man wanting to date my 16 year old daughter because she's "pure?"
That should be disturbing to any parent.
And yet it won't faze those who are seemingly emotionally in need of defending him.
There is something very wrong with the things being said in his defense. I'm still withholding final judgment, but the more I hear the more disturbing this man's ethics become.
And again........... these are not gossipy accusers. These are the people who think he's done nothing wrong. :shrug:
I don't find it disturbing at all within it's context. If Moore went to go courting a virgin for the purpose of marriage, there ain't nothing wrong with that. And as @Smokin Joe already opined, anything his own age was bound to be gone by the time he got home, 10 years late to the party. Most anything worth having was married with a few kids by then.
And secondly, it was another time - My own father, in his late 20's courted and married my mother when she was 17 (you do the math for the courting time). To convict Moore, then my own father is a pervert too. And his case is by no means rare in his generation. A good gal at the time would set her sights on a man who could provide, and that ain't a boy of 18.
So no. Take the modern spin off of this, and understand country courting, and there ain't a dang thing wrong, beyond the accusations of force and underage, which are punched full of holes and weren't believable in the first place.
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Moore has no honor.
PROVE IT. Because 40 years of impeccable and honorable service call you a liar.
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I'm sorry, but as a mother who has raised daughters, I find this friend's supposed testimonial on Moore's behalf extremely disturbing.
A thirty something man wanting to date my 16 year old daughter because she's "pure?"
That should be disturbing to any parent.
And yet it won't faze those who are seemingly emotionally in need of defending him.
There is something very wrong with the things being said in his defense. I'm still withholding final judgment, but the more I hear the more disturbing this man's ethics become.
And again........... these are not gossipy accusers. These are the people who think he's done nothing wrong. :shrug:
First off, this is not Moore claiming this. This is a pastor, Flip Benham, who is not privy to the situation and probably doesn't know much more than you or I.
Second, purity is probably the most important virtue in finding a mate in the Christian faith, regardless of the partner's age. At the risk of being misunderstood, I'll stop there.
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No one has taken over my identity and I said EXACTLY what I meant to say!
How strange that your loyalty to Moore has made you turn against those with differing opinions......
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How strange that your loyalty to Moore has made you turn against those with differing opinions......
If you say so. And this Moore episode has indeed riped the masks right off of some here.
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I don't find it disturbing at all within it's context. If Moore went to go courting a virgin for the purpose of marriage, there ain't nothing wrong with that. And as @Smokin Joe already opined, anything his own age was bound to be gone by the time he got home, 10 years late to the party. Most anything worth having was married with a few kids by then.
And secondly, it was another time - My own father, in his late 20's courted and married my mother when she was 17 (you do the math for the courting time). To convict Moore, then my own father is a pervert too. And his case is by no means rare in his generation. A good gal at the time would set her sights on a man who could provide, and that ain't a boy of 18.
So no. Take the modern spin off of this, and understand country courting, and there ain't a dang thing wrong, beyond the accusations of force and underage, which are punched full of holes and weren't believable in the first place.
Another time???? :shrug: Roy Moore is 2 years older than I am, and I can tell you this........ that a man's seeking out 16 year olds when we were both in our thirties would have been bad news for any responsible parent.
And I completely reject the "there's no one else available so I have to date kids" argument. There are women who want good men who haven't found a mate yet who are in the appropriate age range. Especially in the time we're talking about. There were LOTS more pure older women 35 years ago than there are now. LOTS.
We're not talking about his being smitten with an 18 year old, falling in love, courting and marrying. From the sounds of it, he was looking to date girls when he was a grown man, and this pastor is making excuses for it.
You can spin all you want, but this is very disturbing to most adults, and especially to parents.
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If you say so. And this Moore episode has indeed riped the masks right off of some here.
Ripped off the mask of equal standards for our guys as well as theirs?
It certainly has......
I ain't no liberal, my friend, and I find this 'defense' deeply troubling.
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Ripped off the mask of equal standards for our guys as well as theirs?
It certainly has......
I ain't no liberal, my friend, and I find this 'defense' deeply troubling.
So go join the lynch mob! They aren't hard to find!
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Another time???? :shrug: Roy Moore is 2 years older than I am, and I can tell you this........ that a man's seeking out 16 year olds when we were both in our thirties would have been bad news for any responsible parent.
And I completely reject the "there's no one else available so I have to date kids" argument. There are women who want good men who haven't found a mate yet who are in the appropriate age range. Especially in the time we're talking about. There were LOTS more pure older women 35 years ago than there are now. LOTS.
We're not talking about his being smitten with an 18 year old, falling in love, courting and marrying. From the sounds of it, he was looking to date girls when he was a grown man, and this pastor is making excuses for it.
You can spin all you want, but this is very disturbing to most adults, and especially to parents.
No ma'am. That ain't right, not by a long shot in a rural country town.
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So go join the lynch mob! They aren't hard to find!
I hope you realize that you're making NO sense.
You just don't want anyone to pay attention and keep an open mind, but that's not going to work with me.
You can't intimidate me with your hyperbolic, emotional nonsense.
I'm interested in character, and you know it. I'm not invested one way or the other in this person you are so attached to.
I'm more invested in honor than politics, and I'm not back off the legitimate questions because you're trying to intimidate me.
So deal with it.
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Moore has no honor.
Moore graduated from West Point back when West Point had a very strict honor code. I think
it is a tad over board to say he has no honor.
It could be that 40 years ago he screwed up. However since being born again he's been an
exemplary gentleman. While I don't believe the accusations of the 14 year old I can forgive him
even if they are truth. Sometimes people do change but if they were true I believe Moore would
fess up.
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goopo
I've seen shades of TOS in the angry responses to ANY questions about Moore, as well.
And as more "friends" speak up on his behalf, it looks more and more like he is guilty, IMO.
Keep up the thoughtful questions and information, @CatherineofAragon . It is appreciated.
@musiclady
Thank you. Please don’t hesitate to jerk my collar if my temper gets up.
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I hope you realize that you're making NO sense.
You just don't want anyone to pay attention and keep an open mind, but that's not going to work with me.
You can't intimidate me with your hyperbolic, emotional nonsense.
I'm interested in character, and you know it. I'm not invested one way or the other in this person you are so attached to.
I'm more invested in honor than politics, and I'm not back off the legitimate questions because you're trying to intimidate me.
So deal with it.
I hope you realize that it is YOU who are not making any sense here! I've seen this crap pulled several times before and I'm not about to stand by silent and watch it happen yet again!
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@musiclady I posted a vid in the thread Stone Roy Moore. Have a look at it and let me know
what you think.
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,292221.msg1522732/topicseen.html#msg1522732
Some decent points. He doesn't know if he's guilty or not. (Nor do I). He thinks the more disturbing part if he's guilty is that he's lying (I think both are pretty wicked). Crazy comparison with Jesus Christ and the false accusations (since he doesn't really know that the accusations are false).
The rest is a rant against the GOP establishment (no problem there), against sodomy, etc. The stoning theme really doesn't apply very well from a logical, theological perspective, though.
Altogether, a pretty incoherent, ranting sermon there. If he's a pastor I'm glad I don't have to listen to him on Sundays and try to take notes on his sermons.
Yikes.
@jpsb
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I hope you realize that it is YOU who are not making any sense here! I've seen this crap pulled several times before and I'm not about to stand by silent and watch it happen yet again!
Au contraire....... it is not I who am emotionally involved with Roy Moore.
You may disagree with every word I've said, but it is rational, and makes a great deal of sense.
I would suggest that you calm down before you blow a gasket.
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A couple who were very close friends of my wife and I since the early 70s, were around 30 and 18 respectively when they wed.
He from Pennsylvania via the US Air Force, and she from Indiana.
He is dead, and she remains a close friend. For her next husband, she went for an older man again.
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@cato potatoe
That's true. But the fact remains that a man in his thirties who only wants girls that age, and who hangs out trying to pick them up, is not normal.
The most serious issue is the 14 year old.
Who even the mother of..says was lying...phone home. Otherwise, any proof there ... because Y'a K'no some actual proof is the Conservative way. Just weeks before an election, unsubstantiated allegations..like this is the Democrat/regressive way.
Not sayin' you are a regressive..but you are sowing the wind, with no regard for truth...whatever it may be.
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@musiclady
Thank you. Please don’t hesitate to jerk my collar if my temper gets up.
It's easy to have happen when you're being attacked.
Just walk away and calm down. No sense in letting their emotion become yours.
BOTH sides of this discussion need to continue in a rational manner. Otherwise this place is no different from TOS......
@CatherineofAragon
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A couple who were very close friends of my wife and I since the early 70s, were around 30 and 18 respectively when they wed.
He from Pennsylvania via the US Air Force, and she from Indiana.
He is dead, and she remains a close friend. For her next husband, she went for an older man again.
I got an e-mail from a Senior (I.E. over 60) dating site when I was 46... cradle robbers. :smokin:
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A couple who were very close friends of my wife and I since the early 70s, were around 30 and 18 respectively when they wed.
He from Pennsylvania via the US Air Force, and she from Indiana.
He is dead, and she remains a close friend. For her next husband, she went for an older man again.
The May/September relationship is not the real issue here. The seeking out underage teenage girls (IF it occurred) is the problem.
The more vociferously he is defended, the more apparent it is that he did more than just fall in love with and marry someone younger. That is a different matter entirely.
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Another time???? :shrug: Roy Moore is 2 years older than I am, and I can tell you this........ that a man's seeking out 16 year olds when we were both in our thirties would have been bad news for any responsible parent.
And I completely reject the "there's no one else available so I have to date kids" argument. There are women who want good men who haven't found a mate yet who are in the appropriate age range. Especially in the time we're talking about. There were LOTS more pure older women 35 years ago than there are now. LOTS.
We're not talking about his being smitten with an 18 year old, falling in love, courting and marrying. From the sounds of it, he was looking to date girls when he was a grown man, and this pastor is making excuses for it.
You can spin all you want, but this is very disturbing to most adults, and especially to parents.
Does not appear he was "seeking " them out for sex, but rather Marriage. Not that weird. In fact he married one he met when she was 15.. married her at what 22 when he was what 34,,,Meh :shrug: ....
... I have no problem with this.
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The May/September relationship is not the real issue here. The seeking out underage teenage girls (IF it occurred) is the problem.
The more vociferously he is defended, the more apparent it is that he did more than just fall in love with and marry someone younger. That is a different matter entirely.
If you can prove under age..I.E. 16 years old do so. Otherwise, you are wagging your tongue. Not very Christian.
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I might but first you must tell me what you consider to be a "reputable" news site these days! Will only the NY Times, The WaPo, or SE BS do it for you?
No... any historically fair, balanced, and conservative-friendly site will do.
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I'm sorry, but as a mother who has raised daughters, I find this friend's supposed testimonial on Moore's behalf extremely disturbing.
A thirty something man wanting to date my 16 year old daughter because she's "pure?"
That should be disturbing to any parent.
And yet it won't faze those who are seemingly emotionally in need of defending him.
There is something very wrong with the things being said in his defense. I'm still withholding final judgment, but the more I hear the more disturbing this man's ethics become.
My younger sister went out on her senior prom with a 30 y/o man. A man that went to church with us, that mom approved of and with my sister's consent. She ended up not liking him, and he moved on to other pastures. But it happened, and she was no dummy, Valedictorian in HS and college. She always dated older men come to think of it. Never married. Regrets not having children now but put her career above all else.
I in my mid-20s dated a couple of teenagers, one I married 3 or 4 years later. My memory is not my strong point now days. I also was looking for a pure Christian lady. I lucked up on my wife, she is my better half. We have been married 25 years or so. I wasn't the most mature person at the time we started dating I must admit. I think women just mature sooner than some of us fellow.
My wife dated a fellow my age before we started dating. It was a memory she does not like to recall. It didn't end on a good note. Her dad had committed suicide years earlier, and she didn't have the greatest home life. She was looking forward to marriage. It was me that had cold feet. I was still fixing up the old house when we married. Some rough early years that I wouldn't trade for anything in the world now.
Anyhoo, just saying, yes the premise of dating younger women has been around. I have 4 children now, all boys, would I let them date someone that much older, probable not. I understand where you are coming from, but I also understand it was a different era. I live it, and can't say I would of done much different because I got a peach of a wife that has been a blessing from God.
_________________________________ @musiclady
That said, I think you're one of my fave posters here. We differ opinions here, but so what. I enjoy your posts and have learned a lot from them.
What about the 14y/o that I didn't mention? Well they are just now starting to dig into that deeper. Let's see where it leads...
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/21/court-documents-raise-significant-questions-leigh-corfmans-accusations-roy-moore/
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Some decent points. He doesn't know if he's guilty or not. (Nor do I). He thinks the more disturbing part if he's guilty is that he's lying (I think both are pretty wicked). Crazy comparison with Jesus Christ and the false accusations (since he doesn't really know that the accusations are false).
The rest is a rant against the GOP establishment (no problem there), against sodomy, etc. The stoning theme really doesn't apply very well from a logical, theological perspective, though.
Altogether, a pretty incoherent, ranting sermon there. If he's a pastor I'm glad I don't have to listen to him on Sundays and try to take notes on his sermons.
Yikes.
@jpsb
@musiclady
Thank you for taking the time to watch and letting me know what you think. Thanks again.
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The May/September relationship is not the real issue here. The seeking out underage teenage girls (IF it occurred) is the problem.
And to this very moment there has not been a single shred of actual evidence that it did! None! Zero! NADA!
The more vociferously he is defended, the more apparent it is that he did more than just fall in love with and marry someone younger. That is a different matter entirely.
That does not compute with me! Why does his being actively defended point in any particular direction?
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And to this very moment there has not been a single shred of actual evidence that it did! None! Zero! NADA!
That does not compute with me! Why does his being actively defended point in any particular direction?
Right on both points Bigun. :beer:
It is both a sham and shame. It is a shame that this democrat/regressive sham is so vociferously espoused here... sometimes, reading these posts...I think I have tuned into MSNBC... or a Joy Behar rant.
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@Bigun
New poll up that says Roy is up by 6 points now... but no links to the actual poll (so I don't hold it endearing)... The previous poll only had Moore up by 2 points.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/22/exclusive-another-alabama-poll-roy-moore-leads-democrat-jones-six-points/
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The area between Philly and Pitts could pass for LA any day. They are both one cross burning away from marshmallow roasting party.
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@Bigun
New poll up that says Roy is up by 6 points now... but no links to the actual poll (so I don't hold it endearing)... The previous poll only had Moore up by 2 points.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/22/exclusive-another-alabama-poll-roy-moore-leads-democrat-jones-six-points/
Thanks! As I hope everyone here realizes by now, I don't put much stock in polls but do put a great deal of stock in the good sense of the people of Alabama. I know they will rightly decide this matter.
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Actually Alabama does pretty well in that area. Well at least for a state that is still has more heterosexuals than the opposite. Looks like states with lower people per sq. mile have higher incidence of incest occurring.
(https://s2.postimg.org/64dd1w4cp/Incest_by_state.jpg)
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If you can prove under age..I.E. 16 years old do so. Otherwise, you are wagging your tongue. Not very Christian.
Gee thanks. I love being called unChristian when I have a differening opinion than others do.
It's such an effective argument. /s
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Actually Alabama does pretty well in that area. Well at least for a state that is still has more heterosexuals than the opposite.
(https://s2.postimg.org/64dd1w4cp/Incest_by_state.jpg)
Ohhhh, nice shot at the winehole...... Good work. 888high58888
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Does not appear he was "seeking " them out for sex, but rather Marriage. Not that weird. In fact he married one he met when she was 15.. married her at what 22 when he was what 34,,,Meh :shrug: ....
... I have no problem with this.
That's fine. I DO have a problem with it.
But I promise not to call you unChristian because we disagree.......
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Actually Alabama does pretty well in that area. Well at least for a state that is still has more heterosexuals than the opposite.
(https://s2.postimg.org/64dd1w4cp/Incest_by_state.jpg)
That would be relevant......but Al only has 4 computers state wide. It skews the data.
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Gee thanks. I love being called unChristian when I have a differening opinion than others do.
It's such an effective argument. /s
@musiclady
So are you just wagging your tongue? What does Christ say 'Bout that?
Maybe the problem is not with what I said.
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The area between Philly and Pitts could pass for LA any day. They are both one cross burning away from marshmallow roasting party.
The Midstate? You talkin' 'bout these people?
(http://i1.wp.com/mennoworld.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/ohio-amish-stock-photo.jpg)
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My younger sister went out on her senior prom with a 30 y/o man. A man that went to church with us, that mom approved of and with my sister's consent. She ended up not liking him, and he moved on to other pastures. But it happened, and she was no dummy, Valedictorian in HS and college. She always dated older men come to think of it. Never married. Regrets not having children now but put her career above all else.
I in my mid-20s dated a couple of teenagers, one I married 3 or 4 years later. My memory is not my strong point now days. I also was looking for a pure Christian lady. I lucked up on my wife, she is my better half. We have been married 25 years or so. I wasn't the most mature person at the time we started dating I must admit. I think women just mature sooner than some of us fellow.
My wife dated a fellow my age before we started dating. It was a memory she does not like to recall. It didn't end on a good note. Her dad had committed suicide years earlier, and she didn't have the greatest home life. She was looking forward to marriage. It was me that had cold feet. I was still fixing up the old house when we married. Some rough early years that I wouldn't trade for anything in the world now.
Anyhoo, just saying, yes the premise of dating younger women has been around. I have 4 children now, all boys, would I let them date someone that much older, probable not. I understand where you are coming from, but I also understand it was a different era. I live it, and can't say I would of done much different because I got a peach of a wife that has been a blessing from God.
_________________________________ @musiclady
That said, I think you're one of my fave posters here. We differ opinions here, but so what. I enjoy your posts and have learned a lot from them.
What about the 14y/o that I didn't mention? Well they are just now starting to dig into that deeper. Let's see where it leads...
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/21/court-documents-raise-significant-questions-leigh-corfmans-accusations-roy-moore/
Just for the record, I no longer trust Breitbart as being even remotely objective or honest.
I also don't think that individual examples of marriages that began when a woman was young are relevant.
BIG picture here......... Moore was in a position of power in politics. He was in his 30s at a time when there were many pure women his age to choose from (if he looked in the right places).
I am not saying that he is GUILTY of anything. I just find the practice of seeking out teenage girls to date problematic. The practice is troubling to me, as it is to many others.
I understand that others disagree, but I am finding the wholesale assault by some on those of us who DO find this behavior troublesome, a touch on the bizarre side.
I mean, I have been told to find a LYNCH MOB because I have some questions about what Moore did.
That is bizarre.
I'm good with different opinions, and I have no problem with yours @Sighlass . I enjoy your posts as well.
There are only a few who are over the top here, and you are certainly not one of them. :beer:
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@musiclady
So are you just wagging your tongue? What does Christ say 'Bout that?
Maybe the problem is not with what I said.
Actually, I'm not even remotely "wagging my tongue." I have said multiple times in no uncertain terms that I don't KNOW if Moore is guilty, and I have not accused him of being guilty.
I have stated my opinions clearly based on my values, both as a female, and as a mother, and as a person for whom character is utmost in an elected official.
I have said that I find this pastor's defense disturbing, and there is no sin in that.
That you see my opinion as sinful is your problem, not mine.....
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Just for the record, I no longer trust Breitbart as being even remotely objective or honest.
I also don't think that individual examples of marriages that began when a woman was young are relevant.
BIG picture here......... Moore was in a position of power in politics. He was in his 30s at a time when there were many pure women his age to choose from (if he looked in the right places).
I am not saying that he is GUILTY of anything. I just find the practice of seeking out teenage girls to date problematic. The practice is troubling to me, as it is to many others.
I understand that others disagree, but I am finding the wholesale assault by some on those of us who DO find this behavior troublesome, a touch on the bizarre side.
I mean, I have been told to find a LYNCH MOB because I have some questions about what Moore did.
That is bizarre.
I'm good with different opinions, and I have no problem with yours @Sighlass . I enjoy your posts as well.
There are only a few who are over the top here, and you are certainly not one of them. :beer:
You are a reasoned Lady it seems. Forced to defend the "wholesale assault" on reason of a tongue wagger... for whatever reason, is how I see this.
A Simple Bricklayer.
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You are a reasoned Lady it seems. Forced to defend the "wholesale assault" on reason of a tongue wagger... for whatever reason, is how I see this.
A Simple Bricklayer.
I have no idea what that means.
If my having a differing opinion, and not yet weighing in on guilt or innocence is sinful to you, then perhaps you need to think more deeply. Nothing I've said is even remotely 'gossip.'
Perhaps you need to level your anger at this pastor who is harming Moore's reputation with his so-called defense of his friend. He's doing more harm to your cause than I am, by far.
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Actually, I'm not even remotely "wagging my tongue." I have said multiple times in no uncertain terms that I don't KNOW if Moore is guilty, and I have not accused him of being guilty.
I have stated my opinions clearly based on my values, both as a female, and as a mother, and as a person for whom character is utmost in an elected official.
I have said that I find this pastor's defense disturbing, and there is no sin in that.
That you see my opinion as sinful is your problem, not mine.....
That is a reasonable post @musiclady.
However, the one you defend does not take any such reasonable position. I apologize to you, for lumping you into the same sinful category I find her occupying.
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That is a reasonable post @musiclady.
However, the one you defend does not take any such reasonable position. I apologize to you, for lumping you into the same sinful category I find her occupying.
Again, you are attributing sin to a differing opinion.
That's not a valid position.
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Again, you are attributing sin to a differing opinion.
That's not a valid position.
No, I attribute sin to sin.
You and I do not take much of a different "opinion" on Moore. We both see the truth in this. Another is casting aspersions at Moore without any regard to truth... just lustful hate..casting stones.
Such is not a differin' of O'pine. Now is it?
You are an honest person, you know the truth of what I speak of.
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@Frank Cannon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYlJH81dSiw
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Just for the record, I no longer trust Breitbart as being even remotely objective or honest.
I also don't think that individual examples of marriages that began when a woman was young are relevant.
BIG picture here......... Moore was in a position of power in politics.
Not just a position. He was the Asst DA. When you get molested in Etowah County, Moore's the guy you take it to, to get it prosecuted. I don't wonder why those girls followed Moore's threats to kept quiet.
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Not just a position. He was the Asst DA. When you get molested in Etowah County, Moore's the guy you take it to, to get it prosecuted. I don't wonder why those girls followed Moore's threats to kept quiet.
So .... how many girls..or boys have you kept quiet? The world wonders.... see how easy the tongue can wag? Then of course... 40 years to talk.
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Not just a position. He was the Asst DA. When you get molested in Etowah County, Moore's the guy you take it to, to get it prosecuted. I don't wonder why those girls followed Moore's threats to kept quiet.
LOL!
There ain't a redneck boy worth his salt that wouldn't thump his melon good for messin with his sister - And 'ADA don't mean a damn thing... unless it would make it all the more a pleasure.
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So .... how many girls..or boys have you kept quiet? The world wonders.... see how easy the tongue can wag? Then of course... 40 years to talk.
I spotted how easy your tongue wags long ago Fantom...Now check this out....
I never molested underage girls in my thirties.
Not that freakin hard.
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No, I attribute sin to sin.
You and I do not take much of a different "opinion" on Moore. We both see the truth in this. Another is casting aspersions at Moore without any regard to truth... just lustful hate..casting stones.
Such is not a differin' of O'pine. Now is it?
You are an honest person, you know the truth of what I speak of.
I'm sorry. I haven't seen any of that on this forum. :shrug:
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I spotted how easy your tongue wags long ago Fantom...Now check this out....
I never molested underage girls in my thirties.
Not that freakin hard.
How about your 20s, 40s, or 50s?
I've never molested ANY girl ever! And I seriously doubt that Roy Moore has either!
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Just for the record, I no longer trust Breitbart as being even remotely objective or honest.
I understand, this was the website that first went Trump central and turned 180 about face on Cruz. Then suddenly has mixed feelings about Trump after Bannon got the boot from the administration. I earlier (in another post weeks ago) expressed my dislike of how Bannon suddenly after a couple of days campaigning in Alabama suddenly acted like he was the reason for Moore victory over Luther Strange. Glory hounding basically.
But.... (there is that Butt word)....
Not many have the deep pockets in today's media world to research items from a more conservative view point in any depth. So I gave the article a look over and it actually dug deeper than most articles out there. Especially since I know if you don't trust them, you certainly don't trust the Washington Post either. Being from Alabama, let me just say you wouldn't trust Al(dot)com either if you knew them. But just because an article is from the WP or Al(dot)com does not mean they don't also have gleams of truth mixed in with their agenda push.
The Breitbart article did some good digging I thought. First off, the no phone thing in the bedroom is sorta a thing I would not chase. Yes, she did not have a phone in her bedroom, but most of us that age remember having phones with long cords or those curly cords that you could stretch a long ways, so maybe she just stretched the cord to her bedroom. Who knows. I know you could walk a long ways with grandmother's phone cord.
Anyway, the article points out that there was only a 12 day period that this could of happened. For two dates and a 3rd call that is a pretty good crunch time.
Also it did a good job of disputing the time frame of her so called rebellious days that she claimed was part of Roy's doing. The article points out the court says she was having those problems before the court date, and that is is documented in the court papers. Interesting. Also the court papers state that after the so called incident with Roy Moore, the court papers say her behavior improved, not the opposite as claimed.
It was interesting to me, after the year and the daughter so called improvement in behavior, the mother filed to take the child back from the father. Talk about unfair to a dad. Just me speculating here as a dad, but dang, take the kid, she starts acting better than you get punished for it.
Also the "picked her up around the corner" intersection was almost a mile from the house, across a major road (dangerous traffic to cross)...
Now that does sound strange to arrange to be picked up so far away. Did she not want Moore to see her home? That sounds odd, but true to life, my wife on our first date did not arrange to meet at her home (she didn't want me to know where she lived in case I was a nut like her previous suitor). So did she make up the story of where they met for the pickup or did she have a desire to meet far from home for a reason like my wife did.
Anyway, I found the article by Breitbart to be above par. At least they were trying to dig for some truth.
________________
Link to article that was discussed above for others to read if they so wanted.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/21/court-documents-raise-significant-questions-leigh-corfmans-accusations-roy-moore/
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Anyway, I found the article by Breitbart to be above par.
Thanks, @Sighlass . I shall read it, then! :patriot:
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There's also an article out today that Roy Moore's camp refused to substantiate claims they made on Corfman:
Roy Moore campaign refuses to substantiate claims about accuser
The Washington Post Michael Scherer 4 hrs ago
Senate candidate Roy Moore's campaign refused Wednesday to substantiate a key claim it made as part of an effort to raise doubts about one of the Alabama candidate's accusers.
The campaign has claimed to have found documents that show Leigh Corfman lived more than a mile from the intersection where she said Moore picked her up for dates in 1979, when she was 14 and he was 32. She says he took her to his house and touched her inappropriately. Moore has denied knowing Corfman.
"According to records the media has not bothered to look at, we've been able to find that Corfman's supposed pickup place was almost a mile away from her mother's house and would have been across a major thoroughfare," Ben DuPré, a longtime aide to Moore, said at an event Tuesday in Montgomery. "This is yet another improbable fact in Leigh Corfman's own words and story that the media has not bothered to investigate."
Continued at: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/roy-moore-campaign-refuses-to-substantiate-claims-about-accuser/ar-BBFvzhI
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A couple who were very close friends of my wife and I since the early 70s, were around 30 and 18 respectively when they wed.
He from Pennsylvania via the US Air Force, and she from Indiana.
He is dead, and she remains a close friend. For her next husband, she went for an older man again.
@truth_seeker
I imagine your friend---the husband who's deceased---didn't hang around teenaged haunts, trolling for young girls.
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I understand, this was the website that first went Trump central and turned 180 about face on Cruz. Then suddenly has mixed feelings about Trump after Bannon got the boot from the administration. I earlier (in another post weeks ago) expressed my dislike of how Bannon suddenly after a couple of days campaigning in Alabama suddenly acted like he was the reason for Moore victory over Luther Strange. Glory hounding basically.
But.... (there is that Butt word)....
Not many have the deep pockets in today's media world to research items from a more conservative view point in any depth. So I gave the article a look over and it actually dug deeper than most articles out there. Especially since I know if you don't trust them, you certainly don't trust the Washington Post either. Being from Alabama, let me just say you wouldn't trust Al(dot)com either if you knew them. But just because an article is from the WP or Al(dot)com does not mean they don't also have gleams of truth mixed in with their agenda push.
The Breitbart article did some good digging I thought. First off, the no phone thing in the bedroom is sorta a thing I would not chase. Yes, she did not have a phone in her bedroom, but most of us that age remember having phones with long cords or those curly cords that you could stretch a long ways, so maybe she just stretched the cord to her bedroom. Who knows. I know you could walk a long ways with grandmother's phone cord.
Anyway, the article points out that there was only a 12 day period that this could of happened. For two dates and a 3rd call that is a pretty good crunch time.
Also it did a good job of disputing the time frame of her so called rebellious days that she claimed was part of Roy's doing. The article points out the court says she was having those problems before the court date, and that is is documented in the court papers. Interesting. Also the court papers state that after the so called incident with Roy Moore, the court papers say her behavior improved, not the opposite as claimed.
It was interesting to me, after the year and the daughter so called improvement in behavior, the mother filed to take the child back from the father. Talk about unfair to a dad. Just me speculating here as a dad, but dang, take the kid, she starts acting better than you get punished for it.
Also the "picked her up around the corner" intersection was almost a mile from the house, across a major road (dangerous traffic to cross)...
Now that does sound strange to arrange to be picked up so far away. Did she not want Moore to see her home? That sounds odd, but true to life, my wife on our first date did not arrange to meet at her home (she didn't want me to know where she lived in case I was a nut like her previous suitor). So did she make up the story of where they met for the pickup or did she have a desire to meet far from home for a reason like my wife did.
Anyway, I found the article by Breitbart to be above par. At least they were trying to dig for some truth.
________________
Link to article that was discussed above for others to read if they so wanted.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/21/court-documents-raise-significant-questions-leigh-corfmans-accusations-roy-moore/
Speak for yourselves, I'm glad I've supported the most pro-life administration ever in this nation.
Seeing how these folks push their views on people, it deserves some pushing back.
And Breitbart is the messenger, as always, people should show us what's wrong with the message.
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Who even the mother of..says was lying...phone home. Otherwise, any proof there ... because Y'a K'no some actual proof is the Conservative way. Just weeks before an election, unsubstantiated allegations..like this is the Democrat/regressive way.
Not sayin' you are a regressive..but you are sowing the wind, with no regard for truth...whatever it may be.
@Fantom
I don't even know what you mean by a "regressive', but let's clear this up. When you speak about no regard for the truth, you better look right in the mirror. I don't know whether you're spouting this crap because you're ignorant of the truth, and you get everything from Gateway Pundit, or whether it's deliberate. Regardless, let's stop right not with the phone absurdity.
It was a pathetic attempt to discredit the woman that went nowhere.
Also, when you talk about "that other one" or however you put it who's telling lies all over the forum, have the guts to use my name.
In one article, Breitbart Jerusalem bureau chief Aaron Klein says that Wells "contradicted a key detail of Corfman's story," namely that Corfman talked to Moore on "her phone in her bedroom." When Breitbart asked Wells if Corfman had her own phone in her bedroom, Wells said no, "but the phone in the house could get through to her easily." Wells also told Breitbart, if you read down far enough, that the Post's report is "truthful and it was researched very well."
http://theweek.com/speedreads/736947/breitbart-tries-poke-holes-roy-moore-accuser-leigh-corfmans-story-by-interviewing-mom (http://theweek.com/speedreads/736947/breitbart-tries-poke-holes-roy-moore-accuser-leigh-corfmans-story-by-interviewing-mom)
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It's easy to have happen when you're being attacked.
Just walk away and calm down. No sense in letting their emotion become yours.
BOTH sides of this discussion need to continue in a rational manner. Otherwise this place is no different from TOS......
@CatherineofAragon
@musiclady
No argument from me.
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andy58 wrote:
"That says a lot about Alabama. How old is 14 in sheep years?"
Interesting web page here:
http://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/case-studies/230?section=primarysources&source=24
Check out the chart.
Going back to 1880, the "age of consent" in many states was 10.
That's right, T-E-N.
In a few states it was 12.
In other states, no age specified at all.
TODAY, in Austria, Germany, Italy, Portugal, Brazil, and Canada, the age of consent is 14.
In Spain, it is 13.
In Colorado, it is 15.
In Utah, it is 14 (if the male is 17 or younger).
We are relative prudes in comparison to much of the world...
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@truth_seeker
I imagine your friend---the husband who's deceased---didn't hang around teenaged haunts, trolling for young girls.
Were he alive today, he would admit he sought out an 18 year old. That would still be a real beauty still in her early-mid 20s as he went through his 30s. Looked nice on his arm.
Small town High school grads only, he a vet. He was very good at his vocation, and they lived well enough.
By certain standard though, they would be the northern equivalent of "gap-toothed hicks," and not too proud to admit it.
He turned us on to reallhy, really great music--Blues music, and Southern rock etc.
We believe the two had the love of their lives together, but now her husband is also older, a devout Christian man, retired law enforcement, Southern roots I think. Shot in the line of duty.
Flip it over. She has had two husbands much older than she. Is that a sinful behavior on her part. Doesn't the lady count?
If two find a mutual relationship, is it okay?
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andy58 wrote:
"That says a lot about Alabama. How old is 14 in sheep years?"
Interesting web page here:
http://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/case-studies/230?section=primarysources&source=24
Check out the chart.
Going back to 1880, the "age of consent" in many states was 10.
That's right, T-E-N.
In a few states it was 12.
In other states, no age specified at all.
Actually I think I think the chart is wrong for Alabama (has it listed as 16 from 1920s)...It wasn't until 2003 or so that Alabama raised the age from 14 to 16 for girls to be married.
There used to be a lot of black churches in Georgia that would have parents of 14 y/o girls sign permission slips for their daughters to go to Alabama and be married. It was quite the thing for a long time.
https://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/08/child_marriage_is_still_legal.html
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@musiclady
No argument from me.
I knew that! ^-^
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Roy Moore Dated ‘Younger Ladies’ For Their ‘Purity,’ His Pastor Friend Says
By Cameron Joseph
11/21/2017
A prominent right-wing preacher who appeared alongside Senate candidate Roy Moore at a campaign rally just days ago said that Moore dated teen girls because of their “purity” and because when he got back from Vietnam there weren’t any women his age left to date.
Pastor Flip Benham told a local Alabama radio show on Monday that there was nothing wrong with Moore dating teenage girls.
Read more at:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/roy-moores-pastor-ally-says-he-dated-teens-because-of-their-purity
(http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/roy-moores-pastor-ally-says-he-dated-teens-because-of-their-purity)
Purity. Yeah right. Hey maybe the pastor friend wants some purity too?
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@Free Vulcan
He made a direct statement, as pointed out earlier. And you didn't respond to my direct questions.
It's just one more in a tall stack of someone else lying about Moore.
I have answered your questions, just not to your satisfaction, because the answers are not what you want to hear.
There are no 14 year olds here. Corfman and Young's stories are blown to bits. You nevertheless persist because Moore is a proxy of your rage against Trump.
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You're welcome! I keep reading that this story has been "debunked", but I have not yet found any evidence to support that claim. Do you happen to have a link to a reputable news site (i.e. - not Trumpway Trumpet or Trumpbart)? Thanks!
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/11/boom-witness-drops-bomb-proves-gloria-allred-accuser-nelson-lying-says-media-not-talk/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/11/boom-witness-drops-bomb-proves-gloria-allred-accuser-nelson-lying-says-media-not-talk/)
Witness also says Major Media would not talk to her.
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I find it interesting that while this pastor friend of Moore’s says Roy was into teenage girls because of their “purity”, Roy ended up marrying a 24-year-old divorced woman with a child.
Of course he did scout her out much earlier, when Kayla would have been 15 years old:
Moore first saw his future wife, Kayla Kisor, when she was in her mid teenage years and was performing at a dance recital. According to press reports, Moore described his reaction in his 2005 biography, "I knew Kayla was going to be a special person in my life."
“When I was deputy district attorney, many years before we got married, I saw her at a dance recital and I was standing, oh, at the back of the auditorium and I saw her up front. I remember her name, it was Kayla Kisor. KK. But I remember that and I didn’t meet her there… It was, oh gosh, eight years later or something, I met her. And when she told me her name, I remembered,” said Moore.
It is of course possible that Moore was attending a high school dance recital for perfectly innocent reasons such as having a niece who was performing, but then again Roy is the oldest of five siblings so it is doubtful that he’d have a nice that old at the time. So what was a single man in his 30’s doing at a girl’s dance recital? Was the mall closed?
It also sounds possible that he started a courtin’ Kayla while she was still married.
In 1984, Kayla met Roy Moore. That same year, she filed for divorce from her first husband, with whom she had a daughter named Heather.
:pondering:
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I find it interesting that while this pastor friend of Moore’s says Roy was into teenage girls because of their “purity”, Roy ended up marrying a 24-year-old divorced woman with a child.
Of course he did scout her out much earlier, when Kayla would have been 15 years old:
It is of course possible that Moore was attending a high school dance recital for perfectly innocent reasons such as having a niece who was performing, but then again Roy is the oldest of five siblings so it is doubtful that he’d have a nice that old at the time. So what was a single man in his 30’s doing at a girl’s dance recital? Was the mall closed?
It also sounds possible that he started a courtin’ Kayla while she was still married.
:pondering:
According to wikipedia, Moore first saw his future wife, Kayla Kisor, when she was in her mid teenage years and was performing at a dance recital. According to press reports, Moore described his reaction in his 2005 biography, "I knew Kayla was going to be a special person in my life."[27] Kisor was then a classmate of a woman who accused Moore of sexual assault in 2017. Moore has denied the allegations.[28][29]
Years later, Moore and Kisor met again at Christmas party. She was then a divorced mother. They married a year later in 1985 when Moore was 38 and Kisor was 24. They have four adult children.[30]
If she was already divorced when they met, then he wasn't a factor.
By 1985, attitudes toward divorce had shifted somewhat from the stigma that was still attached in 1977.
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andy58 wrote:
"That says a lot about Alabama. How old is 14 in sheep years?"
Interesting web page here:
http://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/case-studies/230?section=primarysources&source=24
Check out the chart.
Going back to 1880, the "age of consent" in many states was 10.
That's right, T-E-N.
@Fishrrman
Of course the late 1970’s were culturally just like the 1880’s. /s
As to the “age of consent” back when, first of all one has to consider the life expectancy of women back then, when child birth was a very risky endeavor and when many women died in child birth.
One also has to consider that adolescence as we know it today, even in the 1970’s, didn’t exist back then. There wasn’t so much of a transition between childhood and adulthood as there is now. At 12 or 13 years old, even much younger children were working in factories, in mines, or on farms having ended their primary education often by the 4th or 5th grades, either to support themselves because they were orphaned or abandoned or to help support their families. Persons of this age became adults at a young age because they had to.
And then there were the older men whose first wife may have died leaving him a widower with young children and a farm to tend to, they would often seek out a much younger and healthy “bride” so she could help raise the children, even if she was not much more than a child herself. Some of these marriages were happy, some not so much.
Secondly, not many girls back then, especially in rural areas, finished primary live alone any secondary education or got jobs or had careers so marriage was their only option to get out of the family home. And when families had large families to feed, a girl child, especially if she was one of many girls, was more of drain on family resources, so getting her married off as young as possible made good financial sense for her parents.
Next in rural farming communities, while it may not have been uncommon for older men to marry much younger women, “girls”, it was largely among those of the same social and economic class. In other words, while there are probably exceptions, you typically didn’t see highly educated and successful business or career men trolling farms looking for a 14-year-old to marry. It was more often a neighboring famer marrying the farmer’s daughter, both of them likely with about the same education level, having known each other for a long time through a church and in their very tight knit community.
But more importantly the age of consent being so young gave cover to and legally allowed for “shot gun weddings”.
If a man had sexual relations with a 10, 12, 14-year-old girl, even if it was against her will, even if she was raped by him and she got pregnant or even if she didn’t become pregnant but her “reputation” was now ruined, rather than furthering the disgrace; the girls’ disgrace, the disgrace of the families on both sides, the families would allow or even insist that a marriage take place. Making the age of consent so low allowed for this as otherwise the man would have been jailed but the girl would be left unmarriageable – spoiled, left to a life of shame and destitution.
From the link you posted:
By 1920, when the influence of reform campaigns that established a new link between the age of consent and prostitution had run its course, most had revised their age upward, to 14 or 15 in European nations, and 16 in the Anglo-American world. In the last decades of the 20th century, states and nations with ages below those averages amended their laws to move closer to them. In Europe that growing conformity owed much to moves toward greater European integration. Given that the rationale for the age of consent has remained essentially unchanged in its emphasis on the need to protect 'immature' children, the table highlights the shifting and various definitions of childhood employed across time and cultures.
I would also point out that in that table, that as of 2007 the age of consent in Turkey is 18. Yes, Turkey. And that the age of consent in nearly all countries and US states have moved upward.
I also find it interesting that while many here point out the immorality of child brides in Muslim countries, of forcing rape victims to marry their rapists, of the parental arranged marries of very young girls to much older men, some seem to be OK with it here in Alabama…..Afghanistanabama.
**nononono*
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According to wikipedia, If she was already divorced when they met, then he wasn't a factor.
By 1985, attitudes toward divorce had shifted somewhat from the stigma that was still attached in 1977.
In Moore’s own words…
“I knew Kayla was going to be a special person in my life,” Moore wrote about when he first saw her when she was 15 years old. He wrote he began dating her when she was 23, a year before they married, according to the memoir.
So she was 23 not 24 and possibly would have still been married when they began dating.
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I would also point out that in that table, that as of 2007 the age of consent in Turkey is 18. Yes, Turkey. And that the age of consent in nearly all countries and US states have moved upward.
I also find it interesting that while many here point out the immorality of child brides in Muslim countries, of forcing rape victims to marry their rapists, of the parental arranged marries of very young girls to much older men, some seem to be OK with it here in Alabama…..Afghanistanabama.
**nononono*
Well, you failed to mention France, so I figured I would They have been debating establishing an age of consent (formerly there was no specified age), at 13. Modern times, indeed.
As for the US, it varies by state: From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Ages_of_Consent_-_United_States.svg/300px-Ages_of_Consent_-_United_States.svg.png)Age of consent laws in the U.S., reflecting the general age of consent:
16 Blue
17 Olive drab
18 Green
No data available Gray.
31 of the 50 States have established 16 as the age of consent. Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Connecticut, Georgia, Hawaii, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia
Those pesky facts...
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It is of course possible that Moore was attending a high school dance recital for perfectly innocent reasons such as having a niece who was performing [...]
:pondering:
All y'all don't live in a small town I guess. If you ain't in the party crowd, recitals, and high school choir and football games, and church socials, grange hall dances, farm dances... that sort of thing... That's where everybody goes. Because it's something to do.
If you're in the rowdy crowd, bars, keggers, the mud hole, or the stock car track... That's about it.
O_M_G he was at the mall!!! Well, duh. Everybody is at the mall. Especially in the winter. Hell, I went to the mall for lunch for years when I was in town, because of the food court and the folks. One of the two ice cream shops was in there too, and the only one open late - So it wasn't uncommon to be there after the movies either.
I guess I was a perv cruising for teenage girls too. *****rollingeyes*****
bullshit.
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I guess I was a perv cruising for teenage girls too.
If you called their mothers for permission to date them after chatting them up and checking them out - then yes - you were.
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If you called their mothers for permission to date them after chatting them up and checking them out - then yes - you were.
Callin their mamma for permission shows good intentions, not bad. That's courting. That's looking for marriage. There's plenty of the party set to go to if all you're looking for is getting laid. Their mamma's don't know or don't give a damn.
Around here it's the dad you have to get through, and if you've never called a courting, you have no idea what you're talking about.
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Yay - a perv trolling for teenage girls half his age with a code. Definitely makes it better.
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Yay - a perv trolling for teenage girls half his age with a code. Definitely makes it better.
Like I said - you don't know what you're talking about.
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Like I said - you don't know what you're talking about.
Says the guy who asked if I ever ‘called a courting.’
I’m not a frog, with a sword and pistol by my side.
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I’m not a frog, with a sword and pistol by my side.
What the hell does that even mean?
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What the hell does that even mean?
I guess you were too 'distracted' at all those music recitals to recognize the song lyrics.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFJLbMVgS-E
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I guess you were too 'distracted' at all those music recitals to recognize the song lyrics.
That'll be enough.
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?action=logout
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What the hell does that even mean?
A frog went a-courtin' and he did ride, M-hm, M-hm.
A frog went a-courtin' and he did ride,
Sword and pistol by his side, M-hm, M-hm
16th Century English folk song. ^-^
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If you called their mothers for permission to date them after chatting them up and checking them out - then yes - you were.
Pervs don't ask momma (or daddy) for permission to take their daughter out. *****rollingeyes*****
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Pervs don't ask momma (or daddy) for permission to take their daughter out. *****rollingeyes*****
Are you sure?
Muhammad had parental permission to marry A’isha.
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Are you sure?
Muhammad had parental permission to marry A’isha.
And which of the former Confederate States did that happen in? *****rollingeyes*****
If that's all you have, you don't have much. Dig around, maybe there's a credit card slip or a vintage rubber wrapper somewhere...
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And which of the former Confederate States did that happen in?
If that’s your criteria, where did Jerry Lee Lewis marry his 13 year old cousin who still believed in Santa Claus?
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The pastor's remark somehow brought to mind the comment from Fr. Alexander Elchaninov's Diary of a Russian Priest concerning the appropriate states of life for Christians:
"There is the monastic life and the state of marriage. The third condition, that of virginity in the world, is extremely dangerous, fraught with temptation, and beyond the strength of most people. Moreover, those who adhere to this condition are also a danger to the persons around them: the aura and beauty of virginity, which, when deprived of direct religious significance, are in sense 'nuptial feathers', exercise powerful attraction and awaken unedifying emotions."
Moore's pastor has more knowledge of the man in question, but I think Fr. Alexander has more spiritual insight.
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The pastor's remark somehow brought to mind the comment from Fr. Alexander Elchaninov's Diary of a Russian Priest concerning the appropriate states of life for Christians:
"There is the monastic life and the state of marriage. The third condition, that of virginity in the world, is extremely dangerous, fraught with temptation, and beyond the strength of most people. Moreover, those who adhere to this condition are also a danger to the persons around them: the aura and beauty of virginity, which, when deprived of direct religious significance, are in sense 'nuptial feathers', exercise powerful attraction and awaken unedifying emotions."
Moore's pastor has more knowledge of the man in question, but I think Fr. Alexander has more spiritual insight.
Whenever I see you are posting @The_Reader_David , I know it will be something thoughtful and insightful.
I wish you would post more!
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If that’s your criteria, where did Jerry Lee Lewis marry his 13 year old cousin who still believed in Santa Claus?
You're the one who brought up marrying 7 year-olds, not me.
I wasn't in the loop on Jerry Lee's marriage, and I think that's a mite too young, frankly, even in the rural South of 1957. So did the rest of the world, because when the british tabloids broke the story, he went from $10,000 a night concerts to playing bars for $100 a night.
First cousin once removed is a generation down the line from the first cousin. There's a little more genetic room there than mother's sister's daughter, because it would be more like mother's sister's daughter's daughter. If you can follow that. Anyway, Jerry Lee Lewis isn't one I would necessarily hold up as a paragon of marital skill, considering that was only one of seven marriages he went through.
Anyhow, in Her (Myra's) words, later, as an indisputably grown woman, she had this to say:
In my little mind, I couldn’t believe that they could not see that I was a grown woman. I was only 13, but people said I was more mature than Jerry. I was serious-minded, I was like, “We gotta take care of this and do this,” and he was like, “Where’s the piano?” That’s what he is, that’s what he’s about. And I really, truly wasn’t a typical teenager. My generation was taught to hide under our desk when the bomb came, so you always had in the back of your mind that any minute, any day, life could come to an end. What I wanted was a baby in my arms, a home, a husband, a kitchen to cook in, a yard to raise roses. My little brother was born because I begged my parents for a baby at ten years old. They called me his deputy mom; I just took him over. That was what I was like, and Jerry was busy having fun, he was the true entertainer.
]It wasn’t anybody’s business—OK, it was somebody’s business, but it wasn’t everybody’s business. It was my family’s business, it was mine and Jerry’s business. And, OK, if you say to me now, “There’s a 13-year-old girl over here who wants to get married,” I would say “God, please do not do that, little girl. Go to college, get an education, then figure it out.” But it was a different world, things have changed so drastically. Options, mindsets—this world has gone so fast the last fifty years that you can’t keep up with it.
There is a lot more at the link if you are inclined to read her take on the whole thing.:https://medium.com/cuepoint/ballad-of-the-13-year-old-bride-f909cbe1c6b4 (https://medium.com/cuepoint/ballad-of-the-13-year-old-bride-f909cbe1c6b4)
The world has indeed changed, but people want to judge yesterday and another place by their fresh minted ruler.
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You're the one who brought up marrying 7 year-olds, not me.
Yes, in response to your previous less than sharp observation that perverts don’t seek parental approval. I’ve given you a couple of very well known instances where it’s occurred.
As for Myra saying it wasn’t everybody’s business, then perhaps her husband shouldn’t have announced the marriage to the press while kicking off a tour in England as one of the world’s biggest musical stars, at the time.
Nobody barged into their affairs. They made it known and didn’t like when the inevitable backlash happened. I’m just glad in that ‘different’ time it was met with outrage instead of the ‘oh well’ attitude people are taking with Moore for political convenience.
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Yes, in response to your previous less than sharp observation that perverts don’t seek parental approval. I’ve given you a couple of very well known instances where it’s occurred.
As for Myra saying it wasn’t everybody’s business, then perhaps her husband shouldn’t have announced the marriage to the press while kicking off a tour in England as one of the world’s biggest musical stars, at the time.
Nobody barged into their affairs. They made it known and didn’t like when the inevitable backlash happened. I’m just glad in that ‘different’ time it was met with outrage instead of the ‘oh well’ attitude people are taking with Moore for political convenience.
@edpc
I have had the distinct pleasure of walking out on a Jerry Lee Lewis concert, along with nearly everyone else in the place that day, and not about to defend his marrying a 13 year old girl but you equating that, even remotely, with anything in Roy Moore's life is so far beyond the pale as to defy description!
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@edpc
I have had the distinct pleasure of walking out on a Jerry Lee Lewis concert, along with nearly everyone else in the place that day, and not about to defend his marrying a 13 year old girl but you equating that, even remotely, with anything in Roy Moore's life is so far beyond the pale as to defy description!
So the JLL marriage to a teenager was creepy, but legal and you had a problem with it. However, you have no issues with the equally creepy, but legal dating of teens by Moore.....
Got it.
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Yes, in response to your previous less than sharp observation that perverts don’t seek parental approval. I’ve given you a couple of very well known instances where it’s occurred.
As for Myra saying it wasn’t everybody’s business, then perhaps her husband shouldn’t have announced the marriage to the press while kicking off a tour in England as one of the world’s biggest musical stars, at the time.
Nobody barged into their affairs. They made it known and didn’t like when the inevitable backlash happened. I’m just glad in that ‘different’ time it was met with outrage instead of the ‘oh well’ attitude people are taking with Moore for political convenience.
Oh, he didn't bring it up, and if you'd read the article at the link I gave you, you'd know she was the one who let the cat out of the bag. She didn't see anything wrong with it.
Now, like I said, that's too young imho, was then still is today. But as long as we're getting off topic with irrelevancies, let me provide another link you won't bother to click on:https://www.christianpost.com/news/france-age-of-sexual-consent-official-suggests-13-protests-206700/ (https://www.christianpost.com/news/france-age-of-sexual-consent-official-suggests-13-protests-206700/)
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So the JLL marriage to a teenager was creepy, but legal and you had a problem with it. However, you have no issues with the equally creepy, but legal dating of teens by Moore.....
Got it.
NO! You don't Got it! And likely never will get it!
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NO! You don't Got it! And likely never will get it!
Allow me to send you a keyboard for Christmas. I have a feeling the SHIFT and 1 on yours are nubs. You know what you can do with the old one......
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So the JLL marriage to a teenager was creepy, but legal and you had a problem with it. However, you have no issues with the equally creepy, but legal dating of teens by Moore.....
Got it.
Despite enjoying these little sidebars, what is the purpose of taking the thread off topic over Jerry Lee Lewis, anyway, unless you are just trying to call people child molesters or put words in their mouth saying they approve of something they don't? That would be lowlife horseshit, though, and I don't think you would do that, so I feel compelled to ask.
I guess you don't like the comments his 'child bride' made about those being different times, just as the 1970s were different from today..
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Despite enjoying these little sidebars, what is the purpose of taking the thread off topic over Jerry Lee Lewis....
Since you have the memory of a mayfly, let me offer a reminder that the question about ‘which of the former Confederate States did that happen in’ was raised by you. You got your example.
The other post was in response to someone else, where both of us came back to the main subject of Moore in the comparative fashion, with differing views.
Try to keep up. I can’t spend all of my time teaching your remedial classes of current events and reading comprehension.
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Allow me to send you a keyboard for Christmas. I have a feeling the SHIFT and 1 on yours are nubs. You know what you can do with the old one......
Don't bother! The one I have is just fine for dealing with people like you who insist on following the hostile press around like the lemmings they are!
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Since you have the memory of a mayfly, let me offer a reminder that the question about ‘which of the former Confederate States did that happen in’ was raised by you. You got your example.
The other post was in response to someone else, where both of us came back to the main subject of Moore in the comparative fashion, with differing views.
Try to keep up. I can’t spend all of my time teaching your remedial classes of current events and reading comprehension.
If you think Muhammed's marriage was a "current event" or happened in the US, you may be the one who needs to catch up. Have a nice day.
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If you think Muhammed's marriage was a "current event" or happened in the US, you may be the one who needs to catch up.
The post about it to you that can be found by simply scrolling up this page is the current event to which I was referring. I’d say I think you knew that and your weak retort is a sad effort to save face, but you’ve demonstrated drawing contextual inference is a task for you.
My day will be just fine. Thanks.
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Whenever I see you are posting @The_Reader_David , I know it will be something thoughtful and insightful.
I wish you would post more!
Were I to post more, it would probably dilute the quality of my posts. I try to only post when (at least in my own opinion) I have something thoughtful and insightful to post, though sometimes I slip and post a cheap shot or obvious gag that's too obvious to pass up.
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I thought @The_Reader_David , often posts when a point can be cleared up or made about the Orthodox Christian religion.
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Were I to post more, it would probably dilute the quality of my posts. I try to only post when (at least in my own opinion) I have something thoughtful and insightful to post, though sometimes I slip and post a cheap shot or obvious gag that's too obvious to pass up.
Good point.
Those of us who post more, most likely post less. :patriot:
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I don't know what the answer here is @edpc. The pastor's excuse is inexcusable, IMO. But I don't know the truth of the matter.
It is my stated opinion that proven intentional sexual abuse of a child should carry an automatic death sentence. Sooner than later.
As with anything, circumstances vary, case by case.
Someone I know was raped at thirteen. There was some type of military intervention as an out for him. But in a couple of years he was back and she had to endure the sight of him. Really small town. Her dad had gone after him with a gun but the police (and military) intervened. I think they should have lett her her dad shoot the SOB.
My brother worked part-time at a country store for a while. Her son, who I met later, had picked up a girl in a bar, had sex. Turns out she was only 15 at the time. Her parents found out about it. He did 15 years for rape. I met him a few years back, after he was out. Not long after I met him he hung himself.
I also know a woman who married a guy 20 years her senior. But she was in her 20's. Very abusive relationship. It ended badly for him. @Smokin Joe knows why. We found out later her stepfather and stepson had been sexually abusing her when she was young. So is she so damaged she has to be in an abusive relationship?
Like I said, I don't know what the answer here is. Making up excuses (the pastor) isn't one of them. IMO.
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Despite enjoying these little sidebars, what is the purpose of taking the thread off topic over Jerry Lee Lewis, anyway, unless you are just trying to call people child molesters or put words in their mouth saying they approve of something they don't? That would be lowlife horseshit, though, and I don't think you would do that, so I feel compelled to ask.
I guess you don't like the comments his 'child bride' made about those being different times, just as the 1970s were different from today..
@Smokin Joe
Hell, people need to grow a thicker skin. Since I started bucking the old boys’ network here about Moore, I’ve been accused of being a congenital liar, a person who’s only voted for Democrats, posing for Penthouse, and having serious daddy issues. I’m still here and kicking, and I’m one of those weak feminine creatures.
Just to clarify, Joe...in your previous post, you weren’t justifying cousin marriage, were you?
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@Smokin Joe
Hell, people need to grow a thicker skin. Since I started bucking the old boys’ network here about Moore, I’ve been accused of being a congenital liar, a person who’s only voted for Democrats, posing for Penthouse, and having serious daddy issues. I’m still here and kicking, and I’m one of those weak feminine creatures.
Just to clarify, Joe...in your previous post, you weren’t justifying cousin marriage, were you?
You posed for Penthouse? I'll take back those things I said about you shopping at Target if you send me a copy.
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I have answered your questions, just not to your satisfaction, because the answers are not what you want to hear.
There are no 14 year olds here. Corfman and Young's stories are blown to bits. You nevertheless persist because Moore is a proxy of your rage against Trump.
@Free Vulcan
The only way a person could believe their stories have been discredited is if said person is getting his news from Breitbart or Gateway Pundit, or by extension, TOS. It simply has not happened.
Why are you so emotional and angry, yet accusing me of rage? See, dude, your feelings come through in your post. You believe that politics is so important that you’re willing to overlook the worst immorality so you can get that politician in there to save you.
Me? I believe there are many things more important than politics. For me to harbor “rage” for Trump, I’d have to be a lot more emotionally wrapped up in the process, because rage is a very strong reaction.
Oh, sure, I think he’s a jerk. That doesn’t equate to “rage”. Your attempt to equate it is just more emotionalism on your part... and casting around trying to come up with reasons to excuse Moore.
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You posed for Penthouse? I'll take back those things I said about you shopping at Target if you send me a copy.
@bigheadfred
TARGET RULES
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@bigheadfred
TARGET RULES
Is that a yes or a no?
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@Free Vulcan
The only way a person could believe their stories have been discredited is if said person is getting his news from Breitbart or Gateway Pundit, or by extension, TOS. It simply has not happened.
Why are you so emotional and angry, yet accusing me of rage? See, dude, your feelings come through in your post. You believe that politics is so important that you’re willing to overlook the worst immorality so you can get that politician in there to save you.
Me? I believe there are many things more important than politics. For me to harbor “rage” for Trump, I’d have to be a lot more emotionally wrapped up in the process, because rage is a very strong reaction.
Oh, sure, I think he’s a jerk. That doesn’t equate to “rage”. Your attempt to equate it is just more emotionalism on your part... and casting around trying to come up with reasons to excuse Moore.
@CatherineofAragon
Honest question for you and I'll do it without exclamation marks.
Have you ever once considered the possibility that those stories are only in places like Breitbart because ALL of the other "more reputable" news organizations refuse to even speak to anyone who does not further the agenda? Is that even a possibility in your world? I am really curious about that.
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Is that a yes or a no?
@bigheadfred
I heard you guys like mystery, so....
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@CatherineofAragon
Honest question for you and I'll do it without exclamation marks.
Have you ever once considered the possibility that those stories are only in places like Breitbart because ALL of the other "more reputable" news organizations refuse to even speak to anyone who does not further the agenda? Is that even a possibility in your world? I am really curious about that.
@Bigun
No. Because more reputable, when comparing them with other sources, shouldn’t have quotes.
Come on, did you think they were worth paying attention to during the primaries and the election? They were jokes then and they’re jokes now.
There’s a reason the loons at TOS use them as primary sources. Or, I don’t know, maybe we’re doing a 180 on TOS, too?
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@Bigun
No. Because more reputable, when comparing them with other sources, shouldn’t have quotes.
Come on, did you think they were worth paying attention to during the primaries and the election? They were jokes then and they’re jokes now.
There’s a reason the loons at TOS use them as primary sources. Or, I don’t know, maybe we’re doing a 180 on TOS, too?
I'm sorry, but you are sorely naïve as to how the game of politics is played but I do thank you for the honest answer.
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@bigheadfred
I heard you guys like mystery, so....
YES!
It is a YES!
I'll be able to solve the mystery as to why they let you pose....
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I'm sorry, but you are sorely naïve as to how the game of politics is played but I do thank you for the honest answer.
@Bigun
Oh, utter and complete BS. I know you like to portray yourself as the longtime Republican operative of Granny Gulch or wherever, but that response was just a naked attempt to deflect without responding to a single one of my points.
Screw politics if it means I have to justify deviant behavior. You do you.
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YES!
It is a YES!
I'll be able to solve the mystery as to why they let you pose....
@bigheadfred
*backspace backspace backspace*
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@Bigun
Oh, utter and complete BS. I know you like to portray yourself as the longtime Republican operative of Granny Gulch or wherever, but that response was just a naked attempt to deflect without responding to a single one of my points.
Screw politics if it means I have to justify deviant behavior. You do you.
Interesting term choice. :whistle:
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@Bigun
Oh, utter and complete BS. I know you like to portray yourself as the longtime Republican operative of Granny Gulch or wherever, but that response was just a naked attempt to deflect without responding to a single one of my points.
Screw politics if it means I have to justify deviant behavior. You do you.
Sorry dear. But in the case of Roy Moore you don't KNOW that any deviant behavior has occurred. You only know that some women have ALLEDGED it to have occurred and that is all you need so you run with it. I will not fall in behind you today or ever.
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All y'all don't live in a small town I guess. If you ain't in the party crowd, recitals, and high school choir and football games, and church socials, grange hall dances, farm dances... that sort of thing... That's where everybody goes. Because it's something to do.
If you're in the rowdy crowd, bars, keggers, the mud hole, or the stock car track... That's about it.
O_M_G he was at the mall!!! Well, duh. Everybody is at the mall. Especially in the winter. Hell, I went to the mall for lunch for years when I was in town, because of the food court and the folks. One of the two ice cream shops was in there too, and the only one open late - So it wasn't uncommon to be there after the movies either.
I guess I was a perv cruising for teenage girls too. *****rollingeyes*****
bullshit.
@roamer_1
Well, but you were going to the movies and to eat. We have to be clear, that is not what Moore was there for. Accounts from those who worked with him and from those who worked at the mall confirm that he went there not to do those things, but to troll for young girls and to bother them. He was known as a guy who didn't have a normal social life.
I have to say, I live in a very small rural town, and I don't know of single people who go to recitals or school concerts for entertainment. I just never heard of anyone who does that. Those things are attended by parents who have kids in the recitals and concerts, and their relatives. Singles and marrieds just drive elsewhere for stuff to do.
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@roamer_1
Well, but you were going to the movies and to eat. We have to be clear, that is not what Moore was there for. Accounts from those who worked with him and from those who worked at the mall confirm that he went there not to do those things, but to troll for young girls and to bother them. He was known as a guy who didn't have a normal social life.
I have to say, I live in a very small rural town, and I don't know of single people who go to recitals or school concerts for entertainment. I just never heard of anyone who does that. Those things are attended by parents who have kids in the recitals and concerts, and their relatives. Singles and marrieds just drive elsewhere for stuff to do.
In other words by interpretation, Roy Moore is guilty by accusation until proven innocent?
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@roamer_1
Well, but you were going to the movies and to eat. We have to be clear, that is not what Moore was there for. Accounts from those who worked with him and from those who worked at the mall confirm that he went there not to do those things, but to troll for young girls and to bother them. He was known as a guy who didn't have a normal social life.
I have to say, I live in a very small rural town, and I don't know of single people who go to recitals or school concerts for entertainment. I just never heard of anyone who does that. Those things are attended by parents who have kids in the recitals and concerts, and their relatives. Singles and marrieds just drive elsewhere for stuff to do.
Anyone who goes to a recital for entertainment is an idiot. There isn't anything more boring, other than a Middle School band concert.
And you can trust me on that............ I've been to a zillion of each!
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In other words by interpretation, Roy Moore is guilty by accusation until proven innocent?
How many hundreds of accusations do there have to be before you have a single doubt that he just may be guilty?
I really would like to know how ANYONE is absolutely certain of his innocence with this many eyewitness accusers......
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How many hundreds of accusations do there have to be before you have a single doubt that he just may be guilty?
I really would like to know how ANYONE is absolutely certain of his innocence with this many eyewitness accusers......
Because there has not been one shred of credible evidence or corroborated stories in a country wher we are supposed presume innocence until proven guilty. Where there really witches in Salem, Mass?
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How many hundreds of accusations do there have to be before you have a single doubt that he just may be guilty?
I really would like to know how ANYONE is absolutely certain of his innocence with this many eyewitness accusers......
No one is absolutely certain of much of anything other than Jesus's return. I have however, watched this political movie many times previously and NEVER liked the outcome. One or a thousand allegations do not constitute proof of anything in my book and especially so when they only appear at a critical time right before an election.
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Because there has not been one shred of credible evidence or corroborated stories in a country wher we are supposed presume innocence until proven guilty. Where there really witches in Salem, Mass?
Don't know about back then. There are now.
https://www.meetup.com/topics/witchcraft-coven/us/ma/salem/
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No one is absolutely certain of much of anything other than Jesus's return. I have however, watched this political movie many times previously and NEVER liked the outcome. One or a thousand allegations do not constitute proof of anything in my book and especially so when they only appear at a critical time right before an election.
Nonetheless, you have admitted to not being certain that he is innocent.
NO one is certain. Both sides should continue to be presented.
And NO one should be attacked personally because he or she falls on one side or the other....... or is seeing points on both sides.
You don't know that he's innocent. You have chosen to believe that he's innocent. Others have chosen to continue to listen to the accusers before deciding for certain.
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Don't know about back then. There are now.
https://www.meetup.com/topics/witchcraft-coven/us/ma/salem/
Whether you believe in witchcraft or not, the point made is that in Salem, Mass, most were guilty by accusation in that Puritan society. Are we that same Puritan society today?
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Nonetheless, you have admitted to not being certain that he is innocent.
NO one is certain. Both sides should continue to be presented.
And NO one should be attacked personally because he or she falls on one side or the other....... or is seeing points on both sides.
You don't know that he's innocent. You have chosen to believe that he's innocent. Others have chosen to continue to listen to the accusers before deciding for certain.
I have no argument with any of that but I also know, from sad personal experience, that only ONE side is going to get any ink where the MSM is concerned.
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/11/24/washington-post-reporter-caught-plotting-liberal-agenda-with-billionaire-george-soros.html
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@roamer_1
Well, but you were going to the movies and to eat. We have to be clear, that is not what Moore was there for. Accounts from those who worked with him and from those who worked at the mall confirm that he went there not to do those things, but to troll for young girls and to bother them. He was known as a guy who didn't have a normal social life.
I have to say, I live in a very small rural town, and I don't know of single people who go to recitals or school concerts for entertainment. I just never heard of anyone who does that. Those things are attended by parents who have kids in the recitals and concerts, and their relatives. Singles and marrieds just drive elsewhere for stuff to do.
@CatherineofAragon
:beer:
I have a passel of young great nieces and if it were not for the fact that I was their great aunt and was invited by them to come to their various school concerts and dance recitals and school talent shows, their girl scout programs, church recitals and them wanting, asking me to come to watch them perform, believe me, I’d much rather be just about anywhere else.
Not that I don’t enjoy watching the little kids or even the high schoolers in band trying desperately to carry a tune or keep a beat, the 3rd and 4th grade choirs trying to sing yet another rendition of “Let It Go” from Frozen or “How Far I’ll Go” from Moana (and as God as my witness, if I never have to hear either of those songs, I’ll be eternally grateful), but it’s not really my idea of entertainment. I love supporting my great nieces’ efforts and praising my love and encouragement on them, but I wouldn’t be doing that for complete stranger’s kids.
I cannot imagine that as an adult that I would go to that sort of thing without having a family obligation to do so.
I currently live in a very small town in central PA. But as rural and as small town as it is, there are still plenty of more adult entertainment, in the arts, to be found without resorting to going to middle school or high school dance recitals.
In my little rural town there is a group called “Shakespeare In the Barn”, They perform several Shakespeare plays every year, local talent and are actually quite good based on the performance I saw last month. There is also a consortium of local artists who put on free to the public art exhibitions, some of the art is so so, but some is really quite good, some very good.
I don’t live all that far from either York, Lancaster and Hershey, PA, none of them very large cities, but where there is a burgeoning and vibrant arts and music scene and I’m not all that far a drive from either Philly or Baltimore or even DC if I want to see a professional ballet or a symphony or opera if I so desire. Even in York, PA there are several venues that have nationally known musical groups and Broadway shows and such performing on a regular basis
Gadsden is likewise not all that far a drive to Birmingham, Huntsville or Atlanta or even Nashville where I understand have music and arts venues that have adult performers, not just high school age girls.
You can’t tell me that a single man in his late 20’s or early 30’s even in Gadsden AL has nowhere else to go other than to a High School dance recitals for entertainment.
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Because there has not been one shred of credible evidence or corroborated stories in a country wher we are supposed presume innocence until proven guilty. Where there really witches in Salem, Mass?
@RetBobbyMI
Not applicable. The Salem women accused of being witches were subjected to trial. As has been pointed out a thousand times, "guilty until innocent" applies only in a court of law. Moore is just some politician who wants higher office; he isn't on trial in court. Therefore we're free to conclude as we wish.
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In a small town like Gadsden, there just isn't much to do. I was once in a small town with nothing to do, I decided to visit my old high school and a volleyball game was going on and I watched it. There is a possibility that one might go to attractions like this though I would shy away from a dance recital generally speaking, people do go to sporting events.
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@RetBobbyMI
Not applicable. The Salem women accused of being witches were subjected to trial. As has been pointed out a thousand times, "guilty until innocent" applies only in a court of law. Moore is just some politician who wants higher office; he isn't on trial in court. Therefore we're free to conclude as we wish.
Yes there was kangaroos trials. Anyone who stood up for someone accused of witchcraft was also accused by the court. Put yourself in Moore’s shoes. If you were accused without any substantial evidence, what would you do?
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Whether you believe in witchcraft or not, the point made is that in Salem, Mass, most were guilty by accusation in that Puritan society. Are we that same Puritan society today?
Interesting analogy. The Puritans were known for their religious strictness and removing the Catholic influences. Which, I suppose, could mean the Catholic predilection for young boys. And then this pastor attempts the excuse that Moore was attracted to younger women/girls for the Purity. Which, in my mind, is far from pure, as a motivation.
Why not have Sessions retake the position? Sessions sucks at AG.
This is Moore about optics in the 2018's than anything else. Maybe it will get Stranger before it ends.
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@CatherineofAragon
:beer:
I have a passel of young great nieces and if it were not for the fact that I was their great aunt and was invited by them to come to their various school concerts and dance recitals and school talent shows, their girl scout programs, church recitals and them wanting, asking me to come to watch them perform, believe me, I’d much rather be just about anywhere else.
Not that I don’t enjoy watching the little kids or even the high schoolers in band trying desperately to carry a tune or keep a beat, the 3rd and 4th grade choirs trying to sing yet another rendition of “Let It Go” from Frozen or “How Far I’ll Go” from Moana (and as God as my witness, if I never have to hear either of those songs, I’ll be eternally grateful), but it’s not really my idea of entertainment. I love supporting my great nieces’ efforts and praising my love and encouragement on them, but I wouldn’t be doing that for complete stranger’s kids.
I cannot imagine that as an adult that I would go to that sort of thing without having a family obligation to do so.
I currently live in a very small town in central PA. But as rural and as small town as it is, there are still plenty of more adult entertainment, in the arts, to be found without resorting to going to middle school or high school dance recitals.
In my little rural town there is a group called “Shakespeare In the Barn”, They perform several Shakespeare plays every year, local talent and are actually quite good based on the performance I saw last month. There is also a consortium of local artists who put on free to the public art exhibitions, some of the art is so so, but some is really quite good, some very good.
I don’t live all that far from either York, Lancaster and Hershey, PA, none of them very large cities, but where there is a burgeoning and vibrant arts and music scene and I’m not all that far a drive from either Philly or Baltimore or even DC if I want to see a professional ballet or a symphony or opera if I so desire. Even in York, PA there are several venues that have nationally known musical groups and Broadway shows and such performing on a regular basis
Gadsden is likewise not all that far a drive to Birmingham, Huntsville or Atlanta or even Nashville where I understand have music and arts venues that have adult performers, not just high school age girls.
You can’t tell me that a single man in his late 20’s or early 30’s even in Gadsden AL has nowhere else to go other than to a High School dance recitals for entertainment.
@Neverdul
I have a friend in New Jersey who has three daughters in Catholic school. There's always some kind of performance or event happening. She adores her daughters with ever fiber of her being, but she groans when another thing to attend comes around.
Your situation sounds very similar to mine. My little rural redneck village, which doesn't exist on many maps, has a thriving winery, and they often have something interesting going on. They had a bunch of rock bands play for Labor Day.
I can drive to Appomattox for the historical sites, or to Lynchburg, which has Thomas Jefferson's summer home. There's a bunch of other things in Lburg...a symphony, a ballet, walking trails down by the river, a couple of small museums, art festivals, several parks. Liberty University even has a fake-snow skiing facility which is open to the public. And of course there's always just dinner and a movie.
Shakespeare in the Barn sounds very interesting!
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Yes there was kangaroos trials. Anyone who stood up for someone accused of witchcraft was also accused by the court. Put yourself in Moore’s shoes. If you were accused without any substantial evidence, what would you do?
@RetBobbyMI
I'm not talking about the circumstances of the witch trials. I'm saying at that point witchcraft was a capital offense, and the women were tried according to the law. In court.
Moore is not in court. He is not being tried according to the law. He is a politician, being tried in the court of public opinion. There is no comparison.
How many times does this have to be repeated? Do you really not get it?
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@Neverdul
I have a friend in New Jersey who has three daughters in Catholic school. There's always some kind of performance or event happening. She adores her daughters with ever fiber of her being, but she groans when another thing to attend comes around.
Your situation sounds very similar to mine. My little rural redneck village, which doesn't exist on many maps, has a thriving winery, and they often have something interesting going on. They had a bunch of rock bands play for Labor Day.
I can drive to Appomattox for the historical sites, or to Lynchburg, which has Thomas Jefferson's summer home. There's a bunch of other things in Lburg...a symphony, a ballet, walking trails down by the river, a couple of small museums, art festivals, several parks. Liberty University even has a fake-snow skiing facility which is open to the public. And of course there's always just dinner and a movie.
Shakespeare in the Barn sounds very interesting!
You could even visit monuments to RE Lee, if they haven’t already been removed by this make excuses for someone else society.
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@RetBobbyMI
I'm not talking about the circumstances of the witch trials. I'm saying at that point witchcraft was a capital offense, and the women were tried according to the law. In court.
Moore is not in court. He is not being tried according to the law. He is a politician, being tried in the court of public opinion. There is no comparison.
How many times does this have to be repeated? Do you really not get it?
Trying and convicting people outside a court of law is usually considered a Lynch mob.
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You could even visit monuments to RE Lee, if they haven’t already been removed by this make excuses for someone else society.
@RetBobbyMI
Appomattox is more about the reunification of the nation. You can visit the courthouse where the truce was signed and that kind of thing.
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@RetBobbyMI
Appomattox is more about the reunification of the nation. You can visit the courthouse where the truce was signed and that kind of thing.
Like you would visit a courthouse voluntarily. Sayyy...how is the house arrest going?
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Trying and convicting people outside a court of law is usually considered a Lynch mob.
@RetBobbyMI
You're being deliberately obtuse.
Deciding on a man's fitness for higher office is not a "lynch mob" and you know it. The question isn't whether he's going to be hanged, it's whether he'll be sent home or to Washington. Stop with the drama.
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@RetBobbyMI
Appomattox is more about the reunification of the nation. You can visit the courthouse where the truce was signed and that kind of thing.
Interesting choice of words: reunification and truce.
Reunification sounds like what the Northerners wanted.
Truce, in light of the growing federalism mentality since the war of aggression, could prove appropriate.
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Soooo....if Moore gets elected he is in until 2020. Just another politician in Washington with questionable ethics. Yawn. I don't really get the drama HERE.
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Soooo....if Moore gets elected he is in until 2020. Just another politician in Washington with questionable ethics. Yawn. I don't really get the drama HERE.
Long enough to help get more conservative constitutionalist judges on the Federal bench.
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Long enough to help get more conservative constitutionalist judges on the Federal bench.
Trump is doing just that. I think I read he has placed more judges in a shorter amount of time.
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Like you would visit a courthouse voluntarily. Sayyy...how is the house arrest going?
@bigheadfred
Why do y'all keep trying to get me in trouble? I told you, my attorney said I can't comment.
Stop trying to trip me up!
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Interesting choice of words: reunification and truce.
Reunification sounds like what the Northerners wanted.
Truce, in light of the growing federalism mentality since the war of aggression, could prove appropriate.
LORD JESUS GIVE ME PATIENCE, LOL
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Soooo....if Moore gets elected he is in until 2020. Just another politician in Washington with questionable ethics. Yawn. I don't really get the drama HERE.
Because @CatherineofAragon is angry about it and if she is angry about something, we all need to be angry about it.
GD it man. A slack jawed yocal is going to be elected Senator by other slack jawed yocals! Don't you see the ramifications here? Next thing you know we'll be electing Mormons to the Senate!
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We have to be clear, that is not what Moore was there for. Accounts from those who worked with him and from those who worked at the mall confirm that he went there not to do those things, but to troll for young girls and to bother them. He was known as a guy who didn't have a normal social life.
@CatherineofAragon
I don't think we have ANY clear reason why Moore was there, or if he was there at all. The people who would know dispute the things you are saying.
I have to say, I live in a very small rural town, and I don't know of single people who go to recitals or school concerts for entertainment. I just never heard of anyone who does that. Those things are attended by parents who have kids in the recitals and concerts, and their relatives. Singles and marrieds just drive elsewhere for stuff to do.
Then you have an elsewhere to drive to. Closest elsewhere to right here is Missoula, 150 miles away.
It is less than it was in my day - the sporting events still rock the house, but the young crowd ain't showing up to as much as we did - There is more to do here now than in my day. Part of that is cultural change too - The rebellion culture is overtaking the country youth at last.
Even in my day (and my life) there were two cultures - one on the wrong side of the tracks, and one on the other. And I took my cues from the environment, whichever one I happened to be in at the time... Thus my objection wrt courting vs dating. I have done both, and I know the natural end of both, and in my very honest opinion, to paint courting with the expectations of dating is nothing short of heretical. That conservative, even country folks equate the two is appalling to me.
But to the point, NOW, you are right. The kids go off an do their thing, and there are fewer and fewer socials, be it farm or church. It still does happen, though nowhere near as much. It is one of the things I have always been proud of about the country - A hoedown will have kids and old folks and folks of all ages. Heck even at the mud pit, special accommodations had to be made to give kids a safe place, because there were too many to keep track of.
And I hate that it's passing. I like songs that everyone can sing. I like events that everyone can do. A family atmosphere makes for a healthy party, and folks tend not to go too far.
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Anyone who goes to a recital for entertainment is an idiot. There isn't anything more boring, other than a Middle School band concert.
And you can trust me on that............ I've been to a zillion of each!
You'd be right - And I have likewise been to many (of each), and junior high sports events too, to include girls volleyball. The point is to cheer em on, not your own entertainment. But I'll tell you what, it turns out that I normally have more fun at such things than I do sitting on my stump at home watching the TV.
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How many hundreds of accusations do there have to be before you have a single doubt that he just may be guilty?
Just one with evidence.
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Because there has not been one shred of credible evidence or corroborated stories in a country wher we are supposed presume innocence until proven guilty. Where there really witches in Salem, Mass?
Since this is on a thread about a pastor friend who said Moore dated young girls because of their "purity," and that it is the word of someone trying to help his cause, your parallel of the Salem witch trials is ludicrous.
There is ample evidence that Moore was, at the very least, a creepy 30 something year old with a penchant for seeing out girls half his age.
I still don't understand the emotional need some of you have to defend his creepiness and accuse others who see that his behavior was creepy, including the bonkers accusations of lynch mobs and witch trials.
You are FAR too emotionally invested in this politician, fellas, and your hyperbolic accusations make you look demented.....
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Just one with evidence.
I highly doubt you'd believe any "evidence" that doesn't support your feelings about this guy and his creepy need to seek out (multiple) girls half his age......
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Because @CatherineofAragon is angry about it and if she is angry about something, we all need to be angry about it.
GD it man. A slack jawed yocal is going to be elected Senator by other slack jawed yocals! Don't you see the ramifications here? Next thing you know we'll be electing Mormons to the Senate!
God forbid they aren’t Seveth Day Adventists.
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And I have likewise been to many (of each), and junior high sports events too, to include girls volleyball.
Girls volley ball is OK
(http://www.dmunsonphoto.com/img/s7/v156/p159850530-6.jpg)
but girls beach volleyball rocks
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Beach_Volleyball_Classic_2007_%281444265768%29.jpg)
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I highly doubt you'd believe any "evidence" that doesn't support your feelings about this guy and his creepy need to seek out (multiple) girls half his age......
So men's needs are now creepy if there aren't any dateable women your age. Thank you for revealing yourselves.
Screw this board and its misandry. I'm out. If you can't understand the truth, to Hell with you all.
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Since this is on a thread about a pastor friend who said Moore dated young girls because of their "purity," and that it is the word of someone trying to help his cause, your parallel of the Salem witch trials is ludicrous.
There is ample evidence that Moore was, at the very least, a creepy 30 something year old with a penchant for seeing out girls half his age.
I still don't understand the emotional need some of you have to defend his creepiness and accuse others who see that his behavior was creepy, including the bonkers accusations of lynch mobs and witch trials.
You are FAR too emotionally invested in this politician, fellas, and your hyperbolic accusations make you look demented.....
I’m sure 90% of the people in this country has things in their closet that they might regret 40 years later. If we held everyone to Puritan standards, there would be no one left to govern this country. As for evidence that he did anything illegal, there is none. As such he is innocent until proven guilty in my book.
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I highly doubt you'd believe any "evidence" that doesn't support your feelings about this guy and his creepy need to seek out (multiple) girls half his age......
I think that quite the other way around.
Barring salacious gossip, there is no evidence he was being creepy at all. It looks to me like he was looking for a virgin bride, which is not uncommon in that generation, and should be the way it is today.
I find no particular fault in him courting younger girls with that intention - Courting, that is - Nor has it been proven to me that he limited himself to high school girls - That is an assumption built into the narrative - A narrative designed to paint him as such.
That he was courting young only makes sense, as in a small town, he would find little his own age 10 years late to the game...
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Because @CatherineofAragon is angry about it and if she is angry about something, we all need to be angry about it.
GD it man. A slack jawed yocal is going to be elected Senator by other slack jawed yocals! Don't you see the ramifications here? Next thing you know we'll be electing Mormons to the Senate!
@Frank Cannon
Oh, can it, Frank. I believe in balance, and as long as most of the people here are defending a pervert, I'm going to keep going against the tide. This isn't groupthink TOS, as much as y'all might want it to be. And if you're really too much of a snowflake to take it, I might double down and get even more obnoxious.
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Just one with evidence.
@roamer_1
Like Paula Jones, Juanita Broaddrick....and recently, Harvey Weinstein and Conyers?
I doubt there were any such demands concerning the former, and I don't recall a single one regarding the latter.
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So men's needs are now creepy if there aren't any dateable women your age. Thank you for revealing yourselves.
Screw this board and its misandry. I'm out. If you can't understand the truth, to Hell with you all.
@jmyrlefuller
I thought women were supposed to be the emotional ones. I keep being proven wrong.
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I’m sure 90% of the people in this country has things in their closet that they might regret 40 years later. If we held everyone to Puritan standards, there would be no one left to govern this country.
Probably - and a good deal of those people know those things would likely register as disqualifiers with many voters. We don’t need puritanical standards, but can we at least try to stop the bar from sinking further? Is it sensible to ask for better and not settle for less?
Daniel Patrick Moynihan wrote an essay decades ago called Defining Deviancy Down.. Hillary Clinton ended up filling his seat. Man, was he ever prescient.
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Like Paula Jones, Juanita Broaddrick....and recently, Harvey Weinstein and Conyers?
I doubt there were any such demands concerning the former, and I don't recall a single one regarding the latter.
@CatherineofAragon
Wrt Paula Jones, she is an admitted adulteress, and on her own.
ALL of the men above had incidents in their history, as has Trump. That they are cads is in the record - you won't find me defending any of the above.
This knee-jerk response that the woman must be summarily believed is nonsense, lest you should also throw Cruz out for the breathless allegations made against him. And Clarence Thomas.
Where there's smoke, there's fire alright, unless it's a smoke machine. Which brings us right the way around, back to hard evidence. In the case of Broderick, whom I believed, There was no evidence - nothing can be done (sorry, too bad) - It was the blue dress that brought Clinton down.
Go find a blue dress and I'll throw Moore out in a minute. How does a guy, pre-pill (for sure pre-pill for teens), have relations with multiple teens, and not have at least one bastard child? Find me a bastard child.
Until that point, he has conducted himself with honor his whole life long, and by me, that honor will stand. Evidence. Incontrovertible. You've got *none*.
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@roamer_1
Wrt Paula Jones, she is an admitted adulteress, and on her own.
So whatever happens between a man and a woman in their marriage means the woman deserves sexual abuse from someone later on. Got it, thanks.
ALL of the men above had incidents in their history, as has Trump. That they are cads is in the record - you won't find me defending any of the above.
You're denying Moore's history, but that doesn't affect its relevance.
This knee-jerk response that the woman must be summarily believed is nonsense, lest you should also throw Cruz out for the breathless allegations made against him. And Clarence Thomas.
We went over these comparisons days ago. They don't wash.
I've also stated to you. over and over, my initial position concerning Moore, but you continue to ignore it and cast false witness. Whatever, I'll let you continue.
Where there's smoke, there's fire alright, unless it's a smoke machine. Which brings us right the way around, back to hard evidence. In the case of Broderick, whom I believed, There was no evidence - nothing can be done (sorry, too bad) - It was the blue dress that brought Clinton down.
Weinstein and Conyers have no tangible evidence against them, but you accept their histories just fine.
Go find a blue dress and I'll throw Moore out in a minute. How does a guy, pre-pill (for sure pre-pill for teens), have relations with multiple teens, and not have at least one bastard child? Find me a bastard child.
Where are Conyers' and Weinstein's blue dresses and bastard children?
Until that point, he has conducted himself with honor his whole life long, and by me, that honor will stand. Evidence. Incontrovertible. You've got *none*.
He hasn't even conducted himself with honor financially, and that's hard fact.
This comes down to a couple of things, regretfully....women should be summarily disbelieved, and Moore has an R behind his name.
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Probably - and a good deal of those people know those things would likely register as disqualifiers with many voters. We don’t need puritanical standards, but can we at least try to stop the bar from sinking further? Is it sensible to ask for better and not settle for less?
Daniel Patrick Moynihan wrote an essay decades ago called Defining Deviancy Down.. Hillary Clinton ended up filling his seat. Man, was he ever prescient.
@edpc
I'm thinking of getting How the Right Lost Its Mind by Charlie Sykes.
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I think that quite the other way around.
Barring salacious gossip, there is no evidence he was being creepy at all. It looks to me like he was looking for a virgin bride, which is not uncommon in that generation, and should be the way it is today.
I find no particular fault in him courting younger girls with that intention - Courting, that is - Nor has it been proven to me that he limited himself to high school girls - That is an assumption built into the narrative - A narrative designed to paint him as such.
That he was courting young only makes sense, as in a small town, he would find little his own age 10 years late to the game...
Excuse me???? "THAT" generation is MY generation, and contrary to leftist propaganda, there were LOTS of older "virgins" out there in the 1970's and 80's. You didn't need to go the High School Prom to find them.
I'm not looking at "narratives"........... I'm looking at both sides of the story, and not holding my hands over my eyes because I don't like one side or the other.
What this pastor said in Moore's defense is damning, and I say that as a Christian who believes in moral purity.
One thing that's consistently missing in YOUR narrative, btw, is the fact that Christian women are also looking for MEN who are virgins. The narrative of an experienced man deflowering a virgin on their wedding night may sit well with you guys, but it doesn't sit well with Christian women who expect moral behavior from BOTH genders.
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@jmyrlefuller
I thought women were supposed to be the emotional ones. I keep being proven wrong.
Indeed.
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So men's needs are now creepy if there aren't any dateable women your age. Thank you for revealing yourselves.
Screw this board and its misandry. I'm out. If you can't understand the truth, to Hell with you all.
Misandry?? ROFLOL!!
Expecting both men and women to be moral with high standards of behavior isn't prejudice against men, myrle.
No one is saying your looking for a good woman is a problem.
NO one.
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@edpc
I'm thinking of getting How the Right Lost Its Mind by Charlie Sykes.
Once again I'm reminded of TOS and the large number of "conservatives" who felt that women should be forced into prostitution rather than taking welfare.
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... What this pastor said in Moore's defense is damning, and I say that as a Christian who believes in moral purity.
One thing that's consistently missing in [YOUR] narrative, btw, is the fact that Christian women are also looking for MEN who are virgins. The narrative of an experienced man deflowering a virgin on their wedding night may sit well with you guys, but it doesn't sit well with Christian women who expect moral behavior from BOTH genders.
*****rollingeyes*****
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Because @CatherineofAragon is angry about it and if she is angry about something, we all need to be angry about it.
GD it man. A slack jawed yocal is going to be elected Senator by other slack jawed yocals! Don't you see the ramifications here? Next thing you know we'll be electing Mormons to the Senate!
uh huh
You do know I am a registered member of the Mormon Church? One of our Senators is Mormon. I haven't met him before. But I do know his wife. Been in their house several times. He seems to be out of town quite a bit.
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So whatever happens between a man and a woman in their marriage means the woman deserves sexual abuse from someone later on. Got it, thanks.
@CatherineofAragon
No, but an admitted adulteress is without honor, and in that, is not to be believed - Or not to be believed as easily as a woman of honor. So in the context of her relevance in the context of the narrative, I paid her no mind.
You're denying Moore's history, but that doesn't affect its relevance.
There is no history. *none*
I've also stated to you. over and over, my initial position concerning Moore, but you continue to ignore it and cast false witness. Whatever, I'll let you continue.
If you feel I've accused you directly, I assure you it was unintended.
Weinstein and Conyers have no tangible evidence against them, but you accept their histories just fine.
Both have settled suits on the record - That they weren't reported or were under-reported does not change the record.
Where are Conyers' and Weinstein's blue dresses and bastard children?
Like I said, settled law suites relating to sexual harassment/abuse. While it may not prove, it does show a pattern IN THE RECORD. And it is all incidental, as neither is honorable, to include Clinton and Tump as well. Men lacking honor are not comparable to men of honor, and I have no need to defend them in the least - and will not. Like Paula Jones, they are on their own.
He hasn't even conducted himself with honor financially, and that's hard fact.
No, it is not.
This comes down to a couple of things, regretfully....women should be summarily disbelieved, and Moore has an R behind his name.
Oh bullshit.
EVERYONE should be summarily disbelieved without evidence. Innocent until proven guilty. Proof requires evidence.
What lends credence to a person, man or woman, in the light of accusations without evidence, is character. What lends credence is keeping their word. Moore has that in spades, across decades. Accusations against him are extraordinary according to his character, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
And I am, as the record plainly shows, vociferously and vehemently anti-Republican - so as to that particular accusation - That dog won't hunt.
I am Conservative, and in that I find character and honor to be paramount - That is why I stand to defend honor, and why I will stand with Roy Moore. If an honorable man is not to be defended, then neither is an honorable woman. Be careful.
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Excuse me???? "THAT" generation is MY generation, and contrary to leftist propaganda, there were LOTS of older "virgins" out there in the 1970's and 80's. You didn't need to go the High School Prom to find them.
That is not true in a small town. @Smokin Joe has likewise opined, and I will stand right with him. What he has said, over and over again, is what I see as true, and what I know in my life. Even in my day (I'm 55), even with college being fairly normative with women, most everyone is married up by 25 and having babies.
I'm not looking at "narratives"........... I'm looking at both sides of the story, and not holding my hands over my eyes because I don't like one side or the other.
Oh me too, with the exception that I'll take the man at his word, because he has shown himself good to his word his life long. Maybe it's a Western thing, but men are judged according to how they keep their word. It goes a long, long way.
What this pastor said in Moore's defense is damning, and I say that as a Christian who believes in moral purity.
As a Christian, I don't see it.
One thing that's consistently missing in YOUR narrative, btw, is the fact that Christian women are also looking for MEN who are virgins. The narrative of an experienced man deflowering a virgin on their wedding night may sit well with you guys, but it doesn't sit well with Christian women who expect moral behavior from BOTH genders.
I think that's right - I don't know why you would think otherwise from me. Not that I can claim it myself - I have oft admitted the road I went down with regret. But my brother married very late and remained virgin, and I am mighty proud of him for it.
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I am not a mormon.
But, I respect them.
The Mormon Christmas festival is spectacular.
I wouldn't miss it.
It is, unbelievable.
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I'm going to step in and defend @roamer_1 here. Not that he needs me to, but because in my experience on the forum with him I find him completely above the board and a fair and decent person. I have never seen him fly off the handle and have only ever seen thoughtful and reasoned responses to serious comments and issues.
@musiclady You may not have mean it this way, but I read your comment to imply that you find @roamer_1 guilty of being as creepy as you think Judge Moore is, and I think that exceedingly unfair and inaccurate.
I don't have a problem with @roamer_1 - just his argument.
I've seen the boys on this forum talk about how there were two types of girls out there, only one of which was suitable for marriage, but the other of which would satisfy their desire to "get laid." (Their words, not mine).
I've seen lots of support of Moore for wanting a "pure" girl, but no recognition that the same argument doesn't apply to the men themselves.
I'm not accusing any one man of anything, because frankly, it's none of my business, and I don't know who's done what anyway. But when people start arguing that the virginity of a girl (these were not women) is an excuse for an older man to troll places for teenagers, with no serious discussion of the fact that the same expectation does not exist for the men (in fact, the expectation is that boys will be boys, but girls must behave), then I have a problem.
It may not have been what was intended, but that's how this argument is coming across. Moore's OK to expect purity, but no one should expect purity from him.
There is no Scriptural command for women to be pure while excusing boys for just meeting their needs.
(Sorry........... the double standard is a long time pet peeve of mine).
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uh huh
You do know I am a registered member of the Mormon Church? One of our Senators is Mormon. I haven't met him before. But I do know his wife. Been in their house several times. He seems to be out of town quite a bit.
Better be careful what you're saying around here... Folks might think you're confessing to stepping out with the woman.
*****rollingeyes***** :whistle:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ztlrVUMH3A
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That is not true in a small town. @Smokin Joe has likewise opined, and I will stand right with him. What he has said, over and over again, is what I see as true, and what I know in my life. Even in my day (I'm 55), even with college being fairly normative with women, most everyone is married up by 25 and having babies.
Oh me too, with the exception that I'll take the man at his word, because he has shown himself good to his word his life long. Maybe it's a Western thing, but men are judged according to how they keep their word. It goes a long, long way.
As a Christian, I don't see it.
I think that's right - I don't know why you would think otherwise from me. Not that I can claim it myself - I have oft admitted the road I went down with regret. But my brother married very late and remained virgin, and I am mighty proud of him for it.
As I said in the post above, I have NO problem with you, and know you to be one of the good guys around here. (I also believe in the forgiveness of sin through the blood of Jesus Christ for all of us who confess...... both you and ME).
What I am trying to clarify here is, in the vociferous defense of Moore's behavior as right and good, and nothing to be concerned about, the narrative you are implying is that he should be able to expect virginity from a woman (or girl, in the case of a teenager), without the same expectation for him.
I read many posts that are written and don't comment on them, but the double standard for men's behavior and women's is a pretty common theme, and it's coming through loud and clear from those who are so staunchly defending Moore.
I will repeat.......... this pastor has damned Moore with his attempt to defend him.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRqq5EeVpRo
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Pastor says Roy Moore was seeking the 'purity of a young woman'
BY
Jessica Chia
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 3:54 AM
A pastor defended embattled Senate candidate Roy Moore, saying the controversial judge, who is accused of pursuing teenage girls as young as 14, was seeking the “purity of a young woman.â€
Pastor Flip Benham told radio hosts Matt Murphy and Andrea Lindenberg on the "Matt and Aunie" show that Moore’s service in Vietnam left him pressed for choice when he returned and pursued a law degree.
“All of the ladies, or many of the ladies that he possibly could have married, were not available then, they were already married, maybe, somewhere,†Benham said.
EXCERPT: Read entire article at link below
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/pastor-roy-moore-seeking-purity-young-woman-article-1.3650365 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/pastor-roy-moore-seeking-purity-young-woman-article-1.3650365)
*********************Hope this is the right article to replace****************************
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Better be careful what you're saying around here... Folks might think you're confessing to stepping out with the woman.
*****rollingeyes***** :whistle:
Written intentionally so they could step out there if they are so inclined.
She was referred to me for my professional skills. I built them solid Walnut wardrobe cabinets.
I wonder if Moore tried looking for these pure girls elsewhere. Like, say...CHURCH?
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Am I the only one who doesn't see a title or any text in this post?
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Am I the only one who doesn't see a title or any text in this post?
You're not the only one.
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You're not the only one.
Everyone drunk here tonight. I can see it plain as day.
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Checking to see if replacement title shows up in follow-up post. It does.
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Topic with no title moved to deleted.
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There was a long, long thread on this subject that seems to have entirely disappeared.
I would just like to add to THIS one............. I wonder if the pastor was concerned for the young women's wanting Moore to be "pure," or if this particular pastor, like too many others, thinks that purity is a one way street.
OK for a man to want it in a woman, but who cares if the man is, himself, pure? (Boys will be boys, and all that tommyrot).
There have been posters here who have plaintively called for seeking out young virgins without regard for whether the one doing the seeking (i.e. Moore) is merely an impure man wanting to deflower a virgin on their wedding night.
At any rate, musing aside, this pastor has done more to damn Moore than to praise him.......
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There was a long, long thread on this subject that seems to have entirely disappeared.
I would just like to add to THIS one............. I wonder if the pastor was concerned for the young women's wanting Moore to be "pure," or if this particular pastor, like too many others, thinks that purity is a one way street.
OK for a man to want it in a woman, but who cares if the man is, himself, pure? (Boys will be boys, and all that tommyrot).
Putting aside the "deflower" a virgin nonsense.... *****rollingeyes*****.
God made Man and Woman. Two different beings. We are different..with God placed ..or evoulution if you are godless, ingrained proclivities. So yes.. what one sex is ok..not so much in the other. Unless me and my Bro's get to go nuts once a week every month. ;)
I also note...God did not impregnate a 88 year old virgin. Something 'Bout being made in a certain image.
Also Mods, seems I got nested into the quoted post.
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Does this pastor even know Moore from his younger days, or is he just musing? I see no specifics, recounting no events or memories. This isn't much more than vague commentary if not outright speculation.
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That's exactly what I posted here from the beginning...
traditional Christian Moore wanted to marry a virgin.
It has only been in the last 60 years of cultural marxism
run amok that young women are encouraged to abandon
marriage and children... and become degenerate whores.
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There was a long, long thread on this subject that seems to have entirely disappeared.
I would just like to add to THIS one............. I wonder if the pastor was concerned for the young women's wanting Moore to be "pure," or if this particular pastor, like too many others, thinks that purity is a one way street.
OK for a man to want it in a woman, but who cares if the man is, himself, pure? (Boys will be boys, and all that tommyrot).
There have been posters here who have plaintively called for seeking out young virgins without regard for whether the one doing the seeking (i.e. Moore) is merely an impure man wanting to deflower a virgin on their wedding night.
At any rate, musing aside, this pastor has done more to damn Moore than to praise him.......
Where exactly is the proof that Moore was not pure?
When he was in the army, he left a bordello when he was brought there without his knowledge... According to an army buddy. That doesn't sound like a party dawg type.
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Putting aside the "deflower" a virgin nonsense.... *****rollingeyes*****.
Oh, no... Lets not. I'd like to see some proof somewhere that he actually DID deflower a virgin. Or even partake of the nectar of any already deflowered for that matter. Has anyone come forward who actually got laid? Because I haven't seen it.
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The Mods put a 'reset' on that one, it's all a conspiracy.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_I3Q1kT0tz2A/ScAGLDqpiVI/AAAAAAAAC2M/ilLduV1vMhw/s400/Clinton%20Reset%20Button.jpg)
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Where exactly is the proof that Moore was not pure?
When he was in the army, he left a bordello when he was brought there without his knowledge... According to an army buddy. That doesn't sound like a party dawg type.
Right, by all accounts ...but for two very dis-reputable ones. Moore was the pentagon of a gentleman.
Seeking a traditional marriage with a young woman who could bear many children...four in this case. Nothing wrong with that. What 34 marrying a 22-24 year old?
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Oh, no... Lets not. I'd like to see some proof somewhere that he actually DID deflower a virgin. Or even partake of the nectar of any already deflowered for that matter. Has anyone come forward who actually got laid? Because I haven't seen it.
I was discounting @musiclady slander.
But yes, the actual proof from young lady's almost old enough..and in some cases old enough to join the military and die in a foreign country...by todays morals ... is that Moore was an upstanding gentleman...very Christian.
No sex... hardy the 'Virgin" popper some seem to wish.
In fact... was his wife a virgin at 22-24? Maybe that fact would put the lie... Not that it is anybody's bussiness.
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Where exactly is the proof that Moore was not pure?
When he was in the army, he left a bordello when he was brought there without his knowledge... According to an army buddy. That doesn't sound like a party dawg type.
Once again, you are asking a question based on your feelings and not what I said.
I asked if the pastor was at all concerned about Moore's purity, or if he, like many others, believes that women should be pure and not men.
It's a legit question whether you like it or not.
I'm a 68 year old woman who's been a Christian since I was 7 and in the church since I was born. I read a lot and I listen a lot, and the concern for women's purity with a complete disregard for men's has prevailed for many years.
All I am saying is that it is just as legitimate for a woman to expect purity from a man, and Biblically, there is no difference in the moral expectation for a Christian.
And if the pastor is saying it's OK for Moore to troll teenagers because he wants "purity" it is a completely legitimate question to expect that he, himself, is pure.
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Oh, no... Lets not. I'd like to see some proof somewhere that he actually DID deflower a virgin. Or even partake of the nectar of any already deflowered for that matter. Has anyone come forward who actually got laid? Because I haven't seen it.
The question is theoretical and legitimate. No "proof" is expected that Moore has the same standards applied to his behavior as to the teenagers he "courted."
It is common practice among (some) men to expect virginity in women and not in themselves, and if you don't realize there is a huge double standard, even among Christians, then your head has been buried in the sand.
But my position on what this pastor said is that he is WAY out of line in what he is saying in "defense" of Moore, because it just furthers the double standard without addressing the lack of equality in moral expectations.
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Putting aside the "deflower" a virgin nonsense.... *****rollingeyes*****.
God made Man and Woman. Two different beings. We are different..with God placed ..or evoulution if you are godless, ingrained proclivities. So yes.. what one sex is ok..not so much in the other. Unless me and my Bro's get to go nuts once a week every month. ;)
I also note...God did not impregnate a 88 year old virgin. Something 'Bout being made in a certain image.
Also Mods, seems I got nested into the quoted post.
Thank you for illustrating my point.
Double standard of morality. Expectations for purity for women and not men.
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Thank you for illustrating my point.
Double standard of morality. Expectations for purity for women and not men.
Thank God, or millions of years of evolution ...as is your preference. We are different beings, mis-anderism aside.... there are different standards.
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There was a long, long thread on this subject that seems to have entirely disappeared.
I would just like to add to THIS one............. I wonder if the pastor was concerned for the young women's wanting Moore to be "pure," or if this particular pastor, like too many others, thinks that purity is a one way street.
OK for a man to want it in a woman, but who cares if the man is, himself, pure? (Boys will be boys, and all that tommyrot).
There have been posters here who have plaintively called for seeking out young virgins without regard for whether the one doing the seeking (i.e. Moore) is merely an impure man wanting to deflower a virgin on their wedding night.
At any rate, musing aside, this pastor has done more to damn Moore than to praise him.......
I can't help but think of the Mormons being promised young girls. Or in Africa the witch doctors promise that if they have sex with virgins they will cure their AIDS and sexual diseases.
This just is so wrong. Looks as if Pastor believes this is OK. Making excuses? Lies that there were no women available to date.
Wrong, wrong, wrong on all counts.
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Once again, you are asking a question based on your feelings and not what I said.
I asked if the pastor was at all concerned about Moore's purity, or if he, like many others, believes that women should be pure and not men.
It's a legit question whether you like it or not.
Alright, but it is academic in the context of the preacher's comments - He was simply responding to the accusation with the supposition that Moore was looking for a virgin bride - A comment quite in line with his old fashioned courting... That the preacher did not mention the state of Moore's virginity is quite beside the point, and I don't know why you feel slighted that it wasn't included in a straightforward answer to the allegation.
I'm a 68 year old woman who's been a Christian since I was 7 and in the church since I was born. I read a lot and I listen a lot, and the concern for women's purity with a complete disregard for men's has prevailed for many years.
All I am saying is that it is just as legitimate for a woman to expect purity from a man, and Biblically, there is no difference in the moral expectation for a Christian.
I am in utter agreement with your statement - My own path has shown me why a better way is required. But that does not answer why you are so adamant that this particular preacher did not, at that particular time, go off on a statement with that in regard.
And if the pastor is saying it's OK for Moore to troll teenagers because he wants "purity" it is a completely legitimate question to expect that he, himself, is pure.
And it is a question I have posed myself, in the positive. There are no records, nor any stories, nor even rumors of Moore's participation in any sort of actual sexual relationship. Judging by my own path, if he were a rowdy, those stories would be there. Not to mention if he were a pervert.
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I can't help but think of the Mormons being promised young girls. Or in Africa the witch doctors promise that if they have sex with virgins they will cure their AIDS and sexual diseases.
This just is so wrong. Looks as if Pastor believes this is OK. Making excuses? Lies that there were no women available to date.
Wrong, wrong, wrong on all counts.
Hyperbolic, mis-androginistic, balderdash
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We been kinda busy today, thank you for your patience.
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Where exactly is the proof that Moore was not pure?
When he was in the army, he left a bordello when he was brought there without his knowledge... According to an army buddy. That doesn't sound like a party dawg type.
@roamer_1
Considering that people who worked with him said he didn't have a social life except for hanging around the mall, I'd say that a woman his own age, even a hooker, was something he couldn't handle for whatever reason.
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Double standard of morality. Expectations for purity for women and not men.
No double standard here.
Young men should also be virgins when they marry.
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Thank God, or millions of years of evolution ...as is your preference. We are different beings, mis-anderism aside.... there are different standards.
Not Biblically, and that is the context of this conversation.
Same standard, Fantom. Same standard. No "boys will be boys" in Scripture.
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@roamer_1
Considering that people who worked with him said he didn't have a social life except for hanging around the mall, I'd say that a woman his own age, even a hooker, was something he couldn't handle for whatever reason.
@CatherineofAragon
OR, he was the same dang Boy Scout then that he's been for the last THIRTY FRIGGIN YEARS. And he certainly doesn't seem to have a problem having relations with his WIFE of thirty years.
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Young men should also be virgins when they marry.
Sure thing sister....
(https://media.giphy.com/media/QntaPoxoo08Wk/giphy.gif)
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Sure thing sister....
(https://media.giphy.com/media/QntaPoxoo08Wk/giphy.gif)
Ah...memories....
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Ah...memories....
Looks like @Oceander and SMF survived it though.
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Looks like @Oceander and SMF survived it though.
Still working on it!
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Still working on it!
But the beatings have stopped?
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Ah...memories....
You were the one with the ruler I guess.
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Sure thing sister....
(https://media.giphy.com/media/QntaPoxoo08Wk/giphy.gif)
I was baptized Lutheran.
Ex-priest Luther married an ex-nun he helped to escape from a convent.
Luther said.... "his marriage would please his father, rile the pope,
cause the angels to laugh, and the devils to weep."
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You were the one with the ruler I guess.
If you hadn't lost yer secret decoder ring you could see her real avatar and screen name--the "disguised as a nun" gig is a classic...
@mystery-ak-47
(http://cloud-3.steamusercontent.com/ugc/34108136345318179/92AA33D776BB679717529D1C311862CDE5AFB46E/)
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I was baptized Lutheran.
Ex-priest Luther married an ex-nun he helped to escape from a convent.
Lutherans. Catholic Lite. Great taste. Less filling.
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I was baptized Lutheran.
Ex-priest Luther married an ex-nun he helped to escape from a convent.
Luther said.... "his marriage would please his father, rile the pope,
cause the angels to laugh, and the devils to weep."
I was baptized Rosicrucian.
H. Spencer Lewis said.....
(http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-once-all-come-to-know-that-by-the-concentration-of-the-mind-on-one-point-on-one-principle-harvey-spencer-lewis-81-40-47.jpg)
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I am a member of the "The First Church of Appliantology"
I strayed once but one of our friendly counselors gave me
A do-nut... And told me to stick closer to church-oriented social activities.
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I was baptized Rosicrucian.
H. Spencer Lewis said.....
(http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-once-all-come-to-know-that-by-the-concentration-of-the-mind-on-one-point-on-one-principle-harvey-spencer-lewis-81-40-47.jpg)
If you were really part of that lodge, you would be familiar with their published book about Akhnaton.
I'm being vague to test you... it's considered by many Rosicrucians to be one of their most mystical books and therein lies an irony...
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But the beatings have stopped?
Why? Should they?
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Lutherans. Catholic Lite. Great taste. Less filling.
I thought Lutherans were folowers of Lex Luther, Superman's arch enemy. Huh.
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(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/42/f7/56/42f756cdbf33557d5ebe9657f02cca61--design-logos-leadership-quotes.jpg)
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Why? Should they?
It is worse than I thought.
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(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/42/f7/56/42f756cdbf33557d5ebe9657f02cca61--design-logos-leadership-quotes.jpg)
Is there a moral to this story?
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(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/42/f7/56/42f756cdbf33557d5ebe9657f02cca61--design-logos-leadership-quotes.jpg)
I know that gal from HR! It took me a while, but I got her to be more "flexible."
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I thought Lutherans were folowers of Lex Luther, Superman's arch enemy. Huh.
That's interesting... considering Superman supports the "American Way"...
which has come to mean, anything goes.
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Is there a moral to this story?
Moral? Not as you know it, no.
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That's interesting... considering Superman supports the "American Way"...
which has come to mean, anything goes.
There's "truth" and "justice" in there, which queers the whole deal.
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We're way beyond Morals, @bigheadfred, it's 2017, let's try some Fables for awhile, it rest easier on the soul.
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We're way beyond Morals, @bigheadfred, it's 2017, let's try some Fables for awhile, it rest easier on the soul.
uh huh
aw WTH, I'll give it a try. let's see...a fable...
Pastor says Roy Moore was seeking the 'purity of a young woman'
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(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/dzWHayCX5gNhxzvKtrhtsw--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD00MDA7dz02MDA-/https://www.thewrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/RoyMooreGun.jpg.cf.jpg)
Abhors homosexuality, but dresses like Village People member and brandishes ladies gun.
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But, how big is his Belt Buckle?
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But, how big is his Belt Buckle?
Is it bigger than a .38 Special?
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! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8egE4x9Djo#)
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(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/_ZJEvZjZXuI5UbhzT5nmlg--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD00MDA7dz00Nzk-/http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/e1/16/0d/e1160d9a68612e1bb8211753f2caf5f7.jpg.cf.jpg)
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@roamer_1
Well, but you were going to the movies and to eat. We have to be clear, that is not what Moore was there for. Accounts from those who worked with him and from those who worked at the mall confirm that he went there not to do those things, but to troll for young girls and to bother them. He was known as a guy who didn't have a normal social life.
I have to say, I live in a very small rural town, and I don't know of single people who go to recitals or school concerts for entertainment. I just never heard of anyone who does that. Those things are attended by parents who have kids in the recitals and concerts, and their relatives. Singles and marrieds just drive elsewhere for stuff to do.
Most of the singles I have known go to the bar. If you don't drink, though, that isn't much of a place to look around. Small towns don't have much. Besides we don't know why he was at the mall, just that he talked with people there. It's almost as evil as hanging around the grocery store.
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It's almost as evil as hanging around the grocery store.
Thank God he wasn't sitting on a park bench with snot running down his nose eying little girls.
They would have strung him up or worse, written a number one best selling song about his life.
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Thank God he wasn't sitting on a park bench with snot running down his nose eying little girls.
They would have strung him up or worse, written a number one best selling song about his life.
Roy playing the flute in the ‘deranged flamingo’ stance would be the perfect way to end this bizarre saga.
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@CatherineofAragon
OR, he was the same dang Boy Scout then that he's been for the last THIRTY FRIGGIN YEARS. And he certainly doesn't seem to have a problem having relations with his WIFE of thirty years.
@roamer_1
Lol, yeah, the wife he met when he was hanging out at recitals at 30 and met a 15 year old and knew she was right for him. That wife.
I guess you could say he’s a Boy Scout...after all, they admit perverts now.
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@roamer_1
Lol, yeah, the wife he met when he was hanging out at recitals at 30 and met a 15 year old and knew she was right for him. That wife.
I guess you could say he’s a Boy Scout...after all, they admit perverts now.
@CatherineofAragon
I wonder how Roy (Lil Mohammad) Moore would rule on a child molestation case where a defendant claimed "I was just looking for some purity your honor".
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Thank God he wasn't sitting on a park bench with snot running down his nose eying little girls.
They would have strung him up or worse, written a number one best selling song about his life.
@WineNot
You outright lying creep. In what alternate universe was Aqualung a #1 best selling song?
(https://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/18832663?wid=520&hei=520&fmt=pjpeg)
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@WineNot
You outright lying creep. In what alternate universe was Aqualung a #1 best selling song?
You are the anti-mater in my universe! Or the evil Spock in Mirror Mirror. I can't decide which! :tongue2:
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You are the anti-mater in my universe! Or the evil Spock in Mirror Mirror. I can't decide which! :tongue2:
Just for shits and giggles, I looked up the top Jethro Tull songs on the Billboard 100.
Living in the Past hit #11 in January of '73 and Bungle in the Jungle hit #12 in January of '75. Aqualung never made it into the top 100.
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@roamer_1
Lol, yeah, the wife he met when he was hanging out at recitals at 30 and met a 15 year old and knew she was right for him. That wife.
I guess you could say he’s a Boy Scout...after all, they admit perverts now.
You relate the events about Moore's nuptials, but incompletely. From Wiki:
Marriage and children
Moore first saw his future wife, Kayla Kisor, when she was in her mid teenage years, performing at a dance recital. In his 2005 autobiography, Moore described his reaction, writing: "I knew Kayla was going to be a special person in my life."[28] Years later, Moore and Kisor met again at a Christmas party. She was then a divorced mother. They married a year later in 1985 when Moore was 38 and Kisor was 24. They have four adult children.[29]
They met when at a dance recital she was a teenager (which I think is kinda strange) but didn't date, and when they did she was 23 and a divorcee. Of all the things he's been accused of so far, this probably isn't the weirdest.
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Just for shits and giggles, I looked up the top Jethro Tull songs on the Billboard 100.
Living in the Past hit #11 in January of '73 and Bungle in the Jungle hit #12 in January of '75. Aqualung never made it into the top 100.
I wasn't aware Aqualung was even released as a single. It was rather long, and long songs generally were not released back then without heavy editing (The single release of "Roundabout" by Yes was just over three minutes). We're going to have to take Mr. Not out back for a serious thrashing.
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You relate the events about Moore's nuptials, but incompletely. From Wiki:
They met when at a dance recital she was a teenager (which I think is kinda strange) but didn't date, and when they did she was 23 and a divorcee. Of all the things he's been accused of so far, this probably isn't the weirdest.
@Cyber Liberty
That was my point—-the way they met and his feeling that a 15 year old girl was right for him.
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I wasn't aware Aqualung was even released as a single. It was rather long, and long songs generally were not released back then without heavy editing (The single release of "Roundabout" by Yes was just over three minutes). We're going to have to take Mr. Not out back for a serious thrashing.
Don't you remember? They had short versions of all those songs like Nights in White Satin that cut all the solos and long riffs out to get them to fit a top 40 format.
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You relate the events about Moore's nuptials, but incompletely. From Wiki:
They met when at a dance recital she was a teenager (which I think is kinda strange) but didn't date, and when they did she was 23 and a divorcee. Of all the things he's been accused of so far, this probably isn't the weirdest.
Kinda of strange for a man accused of chasing teens for their purity to marry a divorcee.
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@CatherineofAragon
I wonder how Roy (Lil Mohammad) Moore would rule on a child molestation case where a defendant claimed "I was just looking for some purity your honor".
@Cripplecreek
Lol, I don’t even want to think about it.
I was just looking around on Twitter. Popehat said we’re this close to some Moore defender showing up on Fox waving a copy of “Lolita.â€
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Don't you remember? They had short versions of all those songs like Nights in White Satin that cut all the solos and long riffs out to get them to fit a top 40 format.
He is old. Hell. He can't remember what he had for dinner last night much less the shortened version of American Pie.
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@Cripplecreek
Lol, I don’t even want to think about it.
I was just looking around on Twitter. Popehat said we’re this close to some Moore defender showing up on Fox waving a copy of “Lolita.â€
https://discover-the-truth.com/2013/09/09/age-of-consent-in-european-american-history/
Sure glad times have changed
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@Cripplecreek
Lol, I don’t even want to think about it.
I was just looking around on Twitter. Popehat said we’re this close to some Moore defender showing up on Fox waving a copy of “Lolita.â€
While playing Don't Stand So Close To Me at a screening of Pretty Baby.
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They met when at a dance recital she was a teenager (which I think is kinda strange) but didn't date, and when they did she was 23 and a divorcee. Of all the things he's been accused of so far, this probably isn't the weirdest.
This is what they're now desperately clinging to, to make Moore into a creeper. While different, he did nothing about it till years later.
This is now a 40 year old story give or take, and the anti-Moore taliban are now deperately reaching to try and make him unfit to be Senate, to satisfy their ulterior political agendas. While not aligned with today's morality, it's a desperate grasp to take it across 40 years to try and hook it to this Senate race.
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At the ripe old age of 73 Mick Jagger just had a baby with a 30 yr old woman.
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At the ripe old age of 73 Mick Jagger just had a baby with a 30 yr old woman.
Ron Wood and Rod Stewart conference called and said 'amateur.'
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@Cyber Liberty
That was my point—-the way they met and his feeling that a 15 year old girl was right for him.
Yeah, that struck me as a little weird, and that it was at a "dance recital." Personally, I can't imagine marrying somebody 14 years my junior because we'd have so little in common. Ever heard the song "Hey 19" by Steely Dan. It's like that.
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Personally, I can't imagine marrying somebody 14 years my junior because we'd have so little in common. Ever heard the song "Hey 19" by Steely Dan. It's like that.
She don't remember the Queen of Soul.
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He is old. Hell. He can't remember what he had for dinner last night much less the shortened version of American Pie.
They shortened that song so much the levy was still full at the end.
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Instead of a new thread...posting here. Another accuser debunked.
Court Documents: Roy Moore Accuser Has ‘Violent Nature,’ History of Criminal Fraud Against Own Family
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/26/court-documents-roy-moore-accuser-violent-nature-history-criminal-fraud-family/ (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/26/court-documents-roy-moore-accuser-violent-nature-history-criminal-fraud-family/)
Birmingham, ALABAMA — Court documents related to Tina Johnson, an Alabama woman who claims that Republican senatorial candidate Roy Moore groped her in his office decades ago, may raise questions about Johnson’s motives in making the accusation.
The documents, reviewed by Breitbart News, show that Moore represented Johnson’s mother in a nasty custody case for Johnson’s then 12-year-old son, Daniel Sitz. In the case, Johnson was repeatedly painted by Moore’s client as an unfit, absent, and unstable mother and was accused of taking her son from his elementary school against his will. Johnson’s mother was ultimately awarded custody in the case.
One affidavit signed by Johnson’s mother while she was represented by Moore accused Johnson of having a “violent nature†and noted that she “has been treated by a psychiatrist when she was approximately 15 years of age.†Johnson was a teenage mother.
Separate criminal documents show that, as late as 2010, Johnson was arrested and pled guilty to felony fraud charges related to checks belonging to a family member. She also entered a court drug program.
Speaking to AL.com, Johnson first went public with the claim that Moore groped her when she was “on legal business with her mother†in 1991. The website noted that “Johnson reached out to AL.com†to discuss her alleged experience with Moore.
The website related that Johnson was “at the office to sign over custody of her 12-year-old son to her mother, with whom he’d been living.â€
Johnson claimed that, after the two met with Moore, her mother walked out of the office door first and that, as Johnson was walking out, Moore grabbed her buttocks from behind. “He didn’t pinch it; he grabbed it,†she claims.
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She don't remember the Queen of Soul.
You win the Frank Cannon Cool Award for the day for making a relevant Steely Dan reference in a thread.
(https://i.imgflip.com/vc4t6.jpg)
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Don't you remember? They had short versions of all those songs like Nights in White Satin that cut all the solos and long riffs out to get them to fit a top 40 format.
I do remember, which is why I mentioned "Roundabout" in my post. Some songs, however, don't lend themselves to such heavy editing. Was Aqualung released as a single? I don't know, but it seems it might have had trouble getting airplay back then.
While typing, I found this quote about the song (my emphasis):
This is Jethro Tull's most famous song, but it was not released as a single. Ian Anderson told us why: "Because it was too long, it was too episodic, it starts off with a loud guitar riff and then goes into rather more laid back acoustic stuff. Led Zeppelin at the time, you know, they didn't release any singles. It was album tracks. And radio sharply divided between AM radio, which played the 3-minute pop hits, and FM radio where they played what they called deep cuts."
http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=1422 (http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=1422)
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Instead of a new thread...posting here. Another accuser debunked.
Court Documents: Roy Moore Accuser Has ‘Violent Nature,’ History of Criminal Fraud Against Own Family
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/26/court-documents-roy-moore-accuser-violent-nature-history-criminal-fraud-family/ (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/26/court-documents-roy-moore-accuser-violent-nature-history-criminal-fraud-family/)
Birmingham, ALABAMA — Court documents related to Tina Johnson, an Alabama woman who claims that Republican senatorial candidate Roy Moore groped her in his office decades ago, may raise questions about Johnson’s motives in making the accusation.
The documents, reviewed by Breitbart News, show that Moore represented Johnson’s mother in a nasty custody case for Johnson’s then 12-year-old son, Daniel Sitz. In the case, Johnson was repeatedly painted by Moore’s client as an unfit, absent, and unstable mother and was accused of taking her son from his elementary school against his will. Johnson’s mother was ultimately awarded custody in the case.
One affidavit signed by Johnson’s mother while she was represented by Moore accused Johnson of having a “violent nature†and noted that she “has been treated by a psychiatrist when she was approximately 15 years of age.†Johnson was a teenage mother.
Separate criminal documents show that, as late as 2010, Johnson was arrested and pled guilty to felony fraud charges related to checks belonging to a family member. She also entered a court drug program.
Speaking to AL.com, Johnson first went public with the claim that Moore groped her when she was “on legal business with her mother†in 1991. The website noted that “Johnson reached out to AL.com†to discuss her alleged experience with Moore.
The website related that Johnson was “at the office to sign over custody of her 12-year-old son to her mother, with whom he’d been living.â€
Johnson claimed that, after the two met with Moore, her mother walked out of the office door first and that, as Johnson was walking out, Moore grabbed her buttocks from behind. “He didn’t pinch it; he grabbed it,†she claims.
Funny how these potential ulterior motives never get mentioned by the professional liars of the Washington Post.
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He is old. Hell. He can't remember what he had for dinner last night much less the shortened version of American Pie.
I'll have you know I bloody well do remember what I had for dinner! What I forgot was to put my teeth back in after.
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They shortened that song so much the levy was still full at the end.
Tell me about it.
I had that song on super Hits of the 70's 8-Trac, It was one of those bootleg copies sold in backrooms next to the 3 packs of 2 year old Hustler's... but I digress. When the song started to fade out I thought it was just getting ready to change tracks...... It didn't. The next song was "Ahab the Arab" or "The Streak" I don't remember Ethel.
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She don't remember the Queen of Soul.
Then again, The Queen of Soul looks like she don't remember her dentist's phone number after her T-giving performance last year.
(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/4kfybTmhaw70_rxXSB3Cew--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD0zNjc7dz02NTI-/http://media.nbcnewyork.com/images/652*367/Aretha_Franklin_Anthem.jpg.cf.jpg)
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I'll have you know I bloody well do remember what I had for dinner! What I forgot was to put my teeth back in after.
Those 4pm dinners really mess with your schedule.
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You win the Frank Cannon Cool Award for the day for making a relevant Steely Dan reference in a thread.
(https://i.imgflip.com/vc4t6.jpg)
That glass belongs to me, unless you don't think my mentioning the song about being with a much younger mate merits a toast.
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I'll have you know I bloody well do remember what I had for dinner! What I forgot was to put my teeth back in after.
Fix-o-dent or Sea Bond?
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That glass belongs to me.......
You can hold it for a sec and take one of those pretend drinks people do at church with the communion chalice.
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Fix-o-dent or Sea Bond?
I forget.
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I forget.
What was the question? :pondering:
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What was the question? :pondering:
There was a question? See, this is why I should have gotten a young bride...to remember stuff. Of course, being a wife, she remembers everything no matter how old she is....
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There was a question? See, this is why I should have gotten a young bride...to remember stuff. Of course, being a wife, she remembers everything no matter how old she is....
and even if she doesn't remember she's still right
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That glass belongs to me, unless you don't think my mentioning the song about being with a much younger mate merits a toast.
You have to mention a Steely Dan song to be considered for the award. If you can find a way to shoehorn something about "Muscatel" in a thread about taxes, I'll send it your way.
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Euf716oQx-w#)
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Then again, The Queen of Soul looks like she don't remember her dentist's phone number after her T-giving performance last year.
(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/4kfybTmhaw70_rxXSB3Cew--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD0zNjc7dz02NTI-/http://media.nbcnewyork.com/images/652*367/Aretha_Franklin_Anthem.jpg.cf.jpg)
@edpc
It isn’t often a forum post makes me yelp-laugh, but that did it, lol.
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You have to mention a Steely Dan song to be considered for the award. If you can find a way to shoehorn something about "Muscatel" in a thread about taxes, I'll send it your way.
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Euf716oQx-w#)
I did. "Hey 19" is a song by Steely Dan, containing the line about "'Retha Franklin." I like my sparkling wine dry.
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I did. "Hey 19" is a song by Steely Dan, containing the line about "'Retha Franklin." I like my sparkling wine dry.
Well.....here you go......
(https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/0pDu-EmRNipD0EUO9phOS4Shnyw/fit-in/1024x1024/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-/2015/10/28/948/n/1922398/52505ce683b106f6_screen-shot-2014-11-14-at-15-23-59/i/Kim-Kardashian-Break-Internet-Moment.png)
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Well.....here you go......
(https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/0pDu-EmRNipD0EUO9phOS4Shnyw/fit-in/1024x1024/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-/2015/10/28/948/n/1922398/52505ce683b106f6_screen-shot-2014-11-14-at-15-23-59/i/Kim-Kardashian-Break-Internet-Moment.png)
Most excellent, thank you. That one's butt has a balcony you can do Shakespeare from.
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Most excellent, thank you. That one's butt has a balcony you can do Shakespeare from.
As many rump fed runyons have........
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So men's needs are now creepy if there aren't any dateable women your age. Thank you for revealing yourselves.
Screw this board and its misandry. I'm out. If you can't understand the truth, to Hell with you all.
I waited until my mid 30's to marry (my choice) . There was always women available my age from when i was 20 on up though in my 30's the pickins were more tough-lots of divorcees, women with kids out right wack jobs etc.
Not once in my early 30's did I think about going after HS girls or women less than 28 or so. My goal was always a spouse +/- 3 years difference in age. My wife is a year older than me and we both grabbed each other and never let go.
If you are still living in that little town you need to move out to the big city and you will have more choices.
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....we both grabbed each other and never let go.
I still say there was enough room for both of you on that floating door, Jack....
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I remember every little thing
As if it happened only yesterday
Parking by the lake
And there was not another car in sight…
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C11MzbEcHlw#)
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I still say there was enough room for both of you on that floating door, Jack....
LOL Jack deserved his watery grave for not figuring that out himself.
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I still say there was enough room for both of you on that floating door, Jack....
We are signed up for a KISS Cruise October 2018. My favorite group since 1976. Hopefully it won't be Titantic II
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Alright, but it is academic in the context of the preacher's comments - He was simply responding to the accusation with the supposition that Moore was looking for a virgin bride - A comment quite in line with his old fashioned courting... That the preacher did not mention the state of Moore's virginity is quite beside the point, and I don't know why you feel slighted that it wasn't included in a straightforward answer to the allegation.
I am in utter agreement with your statement - My own path has shown me why a better way is required. But that does not answer why you are so adamant that this particular preacher did not, at that particular time, go off on a statement with that in regard.
And it is a question I have posed myself, in the positive. There are no records, nor any stories, nor even rumors of Moore's participation in any sort of actual sexual relationship. Judging by my own path, if he were a rowdy, those stories would be there. Not to mention if he were a pervert.
Just for the record, @roamer_1 ....... I don't feel "slighted" in the least. This is not now, nor ever has been about me. Nor is it about you or any of the other menfolk who are adamantly defending Moore here.
This is about bringing up an aspect of the debate that is being overlooked by those defending this pastor's unfortunate reference to the "purity" of teenagers in a discussion of a man over thirty in a position of power.
There is nothing "straightforward" in defending trolling for teenaged girls in malls and at recitals by saying he was just looking for "purity."
If an honest discussion is to be had about this expectation, then the glaring double standard of a Christian's not expecting purity from a man while demanding it of a woman, needed to be mentioned.
So I mentioned it. ^-^
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Just for the record, @roamer_1 ....... I don't feel "slighted" in the least. This is not now, nor ever has been about me. Nor is it about you or any of the other menfolk who are adamantly defending Moore here.
This is about bringing up an aspect of the debate that is being overlooked by those defending this pastor's unfortunate reference to the "purity" of teenagers in a discussion of a man over thirty in a position of power.
There is nothing "straightforward" in defending trolling for teenaged girls in malls and at recitals by saying he was just looking for "purity."
If an honest discussion is to be had about this expectation, then the glaring double standard of a Christian's not expecting purity from a man while demanding it of a woman, needed to be mentioned.
So I mentioned it. ^-^
And, then there's the implication that grown women are "impure".
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Just for the record, @roamer_1 ....... I don't feel "slighted" in the least. This is not now, nor ever has been about me. Nor is it about you or any of the other menfolk who are adamantly defending Moore here.
This is about bringing up an aspect of the debate that is being overlooked by those defending this pastor's unfortunate reference to the "purity" of teenagers in a discussion of a man over thirty in a position of power.
There is nothing "straightforward" in defending trolling for teenaged girls in malls and at recitals by saying he was just looking for "purity."
If an honest discussion is to be had about this expectation, then the glaring double standard of a Christian's not expecting purity from a man while demanding it of a woman, needed to be mentioned.
So I mentioned it. ^-^
Is it not implied that if Christian females are to be "pure" that males are as well? Who is it that the females would become unpure with?
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And, then there's the implication that grown women are "impure".
Maybe I am just drawing from experience, but a 30 year old "pure" woman, especially in this day and age, is about as common as an 1804 dollar.
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There is nothing "straightforward" in defending trolling for teenaged girls in malls and at recitals by saying he was just looking for "purity."
I'd like to see actual evidence that he was 'trolling for teenagers' at malls and recitals, and etc. Younger girls, fine, but there is nothing stating a preference for 'teenagers'. And in a small town, if your not into the bar scene, you'd be 'trolling' all women in those same places.
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Just for the record, @roamer_1 ....... I don't feel "slighted" in the least. This is not now, nor ever has been about me. Nor is it about you or any of the other menfolk who are adamantly defending Moore here.
This is about bringing up an aspect of the debate that is being overlooked by those defending this pastor's unfortunate reference to the "purity" of teenagers in a discussion of a man over thirty in a position of power.
There is nothing "straightforward" in defending trolling for teenaged girls in malls and at recitals by saying he was just looking for "purity."
If an honest discussion is to be had about this expectation, then the glaring double standard of a Christian's not expecting purity from a man while demanding it of a woman, needed to be mentioned.
So I mentioned it. ^-^
Not a "double standard", rather the Natural Demarcation betwixt the sexes.
Thank God. :smokin:
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How the Heck did we get up this tributary???
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How the Heck did we get up this tributary???
Women folk..... stirring it up. :whistle:
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Women folk..... stirring it up. :whistle:
Pretty much went to hell when they started typing. Speaking of which I read A study published in the Journal of Physical Activity and Health (June 2016) found that adult women burn 20 calories during 15 minutes of sitting and typing. That's 1.33 calories per minute. You'd think these delicate flowers would be to weak to comment.....
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Pretty much went to hell when they started typing. Speaking of which I read A study published in the Journal of Physical Activity and Health (June 2016) found that adult women burn 20 calories during 15 minutes of sitting and typing. That's 1.33 calories per minute. You'd think these delicate flowers would be to weak to comment.....
I do not mind them stirring the pot so much... but the country has gone to hell when we gave them the vote...... they cannot responsibly handle it. ****sheep****
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I do not mind them stirring the pot so much... but the country has gone to hell when we gave them the vote...... they cannot responsibly handle it. ****sheep****
WE didn't have a damned thing to do with it!
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I do not mind them stirring the pot so much... but the country has gone to hell when we gave them the vote...... they cannot responsibly handle it. ****sheep****
Many a true word is said in jest.
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Many a true word is said in jest.
Ahhh Yorick. 888high58888
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From what I've seen there are plenty of people that aren't women that can't get it right when it comes to voting.
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Maybe I am just drawing from experience, but a 30 year old "pure" woman, especially in this day and age, is about as common as an 1804 dollar.
Have you talked to any 14, 15, 16 year olds lately? Purity is so last century.
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From what I've seen there are plenty of people that aren't women that can't get it right when it comes to voting.
Thank you, Fred, I was going to point that out too. People who live in glass houses, etc.
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Have you talked to any 14, 15, 16 year olds lately? Purity is so last century.
I try not to. Last time, a 14-year-old girl was undressing me with her eyes, and I'm an old man. These kids scare the crap outta me.
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Thank you, Fred, I was going to point that out too. People who live in glass houses, etc.
Women, by and large(that is the majority of them) vote for socialism/big government, is that not so?
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I try not to. Last time, a 14-year-old girl was undressing me with her eyes, and I'm an old man. These kids scare the crap outta me.
I know. It's sad. They never get to be innocent.
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Women, by and large(that is the majority of them) vote for socialism/big government, is that not so?
As do men nowadays. What's your point?
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From what I've seen there are plenty of people that aren't women that can't get it right when it comes to voting.
Well the 24th and the 26th amendments also contributed to stupid voters.
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Women, by and large(that is the majority of them) vote for socialism/big government, is that not so?
I have firm assurance that 95% of the females in Alabama are voting against Roy Moore because he's a creep. True, comes from a reliable source. They don't care what the facts are, but their lady-parts are sure. Done deal.
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As do men nowadays. What's your point?
No, it is pretty much the woman vote giving us the obama's/kennidys of this world. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/28/a-closer-look-at-the-gender-gap-in-presidential-voting/ (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/28/a-closer-look-at-the-gender-gap-in-presidential-voting/)
Has been since suffrage.
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I have firm assurance that 95% of the females in Alabama are voting against Roy Moore because he's a creep. True, comes from a reliable source. They don't care what the facts are, but their lady-parts are sure. Done deal.
888high58888 LOL, probably not that bad.... but yes, seems the emotion/gender identity overrules reason with most of them.
That too, is from evolution.
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Not a "double standard", rather the Natural Demarcation betwixt the sexes.
Thank God. :smokin:
Nope. Wrong again.
Same rules, both genders. GOD's laws.
Sorry bout dat...........
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Well the 24th and the 26th amendments also contributed to stupid voters.
Probably could have done without the 26th if they weren't drafting children for war.
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These men are so cute, thinking they're at the top of the food chain with the dumb little lady routine, lol. They really don't know how easy it is to lead them around by the nose. Simple creatures, they are.
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I find out my wife votes different from me I am dropping her back off at the playground where I found her.
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Nope. Wrong again.
Same rules, both genders. GOD's laws.
Sorry bout dat...........
God is not PC...sorry. You know better than that.
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Is it not implied that if Christian females are to be "pure" that males are as well? Who is it that the females would become unpure with?
As I said.......... same rules apply to both, as per God's standards.
It's the world that's messed things up and said that "boys will be boys" but girls must remain pure.
Back in my college days (WAY back) there used to be curfews at our Christian college for the women, and none for the men (boys).
The assumption was, by the double standard ruling then, that the Christian boys wouldn't get in trouble if the Christian girls were all in the dorm by 10:30.
Didn't think that one through, did they?.... :shrug:
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These men are so cute, thinking they're at the top of the food chain with the dumb little lady routine, lol. They really don't know how easy it is to lead them around by the nose. Simple creatures, they are.
Oh, we know you are the conniving sex.... we get it. Real men, just do not care. As long as the samwiches arrive on time. :smokin:
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God is not PC...sorry. You know better than that.
What does PC have to do with anything??
You show me where, in God's Word, that it says that men are allowed to commit adultery, but women aren't......... that men are allowed to commit sexual sin, but women aren't.
You're living by cultural rules when you say that guys can do immoral things but women can't.
Attributing your distorted rules to God is not really a good idea.......
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888high58888 LOL, probably not that bad.... but yes, seems the emotion/gender identity overrules reason with most of them.
That too, is from evolution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxpVwBzFAkw&bpctr=1511834470 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxpVwBzFAkw&bpctr=1511834470)
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As I said.......... same rules apply to both, as per God's standards.
It's the world that's messed things up and said that "boys will be boys" but girls must remain pure.
Back in my college days (WAY back) there used to be curfews at our Christian college for the women, and none for the men (boys).
The assumption was, by the double standard ruling then, that the Christian boys wouldn't get in trouble if the Christian girls were all in the dorm by 10:30.
Didn't think that one through, did they?.... :shrug:
Panty raid. Still not a double standard.. a natural God given demarcation.
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Probably could have done without the 26th if they weren't drafting children for war.
So we are defining 18 as children?
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Oh, we know you are the conniving sex.... we get it. Real men, just do not care. As long as the samwiches arrive on time. :smokin:
@Fantom
Lol! Sounds like I hit a nerve.
Thanks for admitting you see women as untrustworthy Jezebels. Thought so.
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God is not PC...sorry. You know better than that.
btw, the PC solution to the inequity is the polar opposite of God's truth. It is to make women as immoral as men, not to demand that men obey the laws of God and be moral as the expectation for women has always been.
You should know better than to call God's laws "PC"............
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxpVwBzFAkw&bpctr=1511834470 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxpVwBzFAkw&bpctr=1511834470)
Not bad, speaks to reality. For what little I watched.
Fact is we are Man AND Woman. We are not the same.
Thank God.
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@Fantom
Lol! Sounds like I hit a nerve.
Thanks for admitting you see women as untrustworthy Jezebels. Thought so.
In the Bible it says, "God made man in His own image." He made women after, from a rib, a cheaper cut.
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Panty raid. Still not a double standard.. a natural God given demarcation.
God given right to sin just because you're male??
That's pretty remarkable.
I'd suggest you do a little delving into Scripture before you post again and spew that nonsense.
Now if you want to spout your little theories and give credit to secularism, go for it.
But to attribute sexual sin to God is putting you on dangerous ground.
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btw, the PC solution to the inequity is the polar opposite of God's truth. It is to make women as immoral as men, not to demand that men obey the laws of God and be moral as the expectation for women has always been.
You should know better than to call God's laws "PC"............
Stay with emotion, your reasoning is flawed.... not your strong suit.
Natural demarcation. Gods law.
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Not bad, speaks to reality. For what little I watched.
Fact is we are Man AND Woman. We are not the same.
Thank God.
The God given difference is obvious.
Your supposed God given right to sin is secular, post-modern balderdash.
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In the Bible it says, "God made man in His own image." He made women after, from a rib, a cheaper cut.
@WineNot
You gonna give Archie Bunker the credit he deserves for that?
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Stay with emotion, your reasoning is flawed.... not your strong suit.
Natural demarcation. Gods law.
Now I don't know if you're playing the fool because you think it's cute, or you really don't know a single thing about the Bible.
Again......... read up.
(The charge of emotionalism, when I'm citing eternal truth is quite remarkable because you feel like opposing God's laws is again....... remarkable).
But do get back to me with a passage of Scripture that supports your argument that it's OK for men to commit sexual sin. I'll give you time......
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Oh, we know you are the conniving sex.... we get it. Real men, just do not care. As long as the samwiches arrive on time. :smokin:
(https://i2.wp.com/gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Boy-That-Escalated-Quickly-Anchorman.gif?ssl=1)
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Stay with emotion, your reasoning is flawed.... not your strong suit.
Natural demarcation. Gods law.
@Fantom
I haven't seen any emotion from @musiclady. I did see a little smoke coming from your ears a moment ago, though.
Like I said...anytime you want to get arrogant and pound that chest over your male intellect, remember what I said. Men are easy. Very easy. ^-^
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Now I don't know if you're playing the fool because you think it's cute, or you really don't know a single thing about the Bible.
Again......... read up.
(The charge of emotionalism, when I'm citing eternal truth is quite remarkable because you feel like opposing God's laws is again....... remarkable).
But do get back to me with a passage of Scripture that supports your argument that it's OK for men to commit sexual sin. I'll give you time......
What sexual sin are you talking about? Scripture please.. as you seem to be hanging whatever your argument is upon such.
Let He who cast the first verse ...speak it out.
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So we are defining 18 as children?
Only if you insist they are dumb.
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Nope. Wrong again.
Same rules, both genders. GOD's laws.
Sorry bout dat...........
@musiclady
While technically correct, not entirely true. The Father sets special store by virgin daughters. There is a special emphasis there that is not expressed toward males which, oddly enough, probably results in the special exception for female virginity that you see as a double standard, long present in Christendom.
Admittedly, it doesn't justify that double standard per se, but the female sense is held on a higher plane of honor - whence comes nunneries, virgin brides, and etc - There is an added value.
That does not mean that men are not to be chaste, as they should be, But the Biblical emphasis is upon the woman in that regard - there is no denying that.
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uh huh
Go back to the beginning.
8. Genesis 2:24-25
“Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.â€
Plain as effing day.
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No, it is pretty much the woman vote giving us the obama's/kennidys of this world. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/28/a-closer-look-at-the-gender-gap-in-presidential-voting/ (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/28/a-closer-look-at-the-gender-gap-in-presidential-voting/)
Has been since suffrage.
Your reference site only gives the breakdown for this election, and as we know this was a highly unusual election.
The picture isn't that simple:
In the 1972 and 1976 elections, there was no difference in candidate support between men and women. Over the last nine presidential elections, however, women have consistently voted for Democratic presidential candidates at higher rates than men. Most recently, in 2012, there was a 10-percentage-point gender gap: 55% of women voted for Democrat Barack Obama over Republican Mitt Romney, compared with 45% of men. The gap in 2012 was little different than it had been in Ronald Reagan’s victory over Jimmy Carter in 1980, when 45% of women and just 36% of men voted for Carter. The size of the gender gap has fluctuated within a relatively narrow range over the past 36 years; on average, women have been 8 percentage points more likely than men to back the Democratic candidate in elections since 1980.
And, you will notice that among men aged 18-49, the majority voted democrat. It's only us old farts that vote majority R.
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So.... are we whipping out scripture to see who has the biggest verse?
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Your reference site only gives the breakdown for this election, and as we know this was a highly unusual election.
The picture isn't that simple:
And, you will notice that among men aged 18-49, the majority voted democrat. It's only us old farts that vote majority R.
It gives this chart.
(http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2016/07/FT_16.7.29.Gender1.png)
Knough said.
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It gives this chart.
(http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2016/07/FT_16.7.29.Gender1.png)
Knough said.
Yes, the part I quoted above covers that time period.
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Not bad, speaks to reality. For what little I watched.
Fact is we are Man AND Woman. We are not the same.
Thank God.
That video is profound.
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It's only us old farts that vote majority R.
:vote:
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So we are defining 18 as children?
Heck, man, I'd define 20's and even 30's as children...
In my late 30's early 40's, I'd finally made my mark, and had the dough laying around to build me an awesome truck... And not only was it a sky-jacked ground-pounder, for the first time ever, I made it a thing of beauty... All teal and chrome, with bright yellow points, with 13" of lift and 44's, and a rumble that set off car alarms just driving by....
Around here, such a thing is a guaranteed chick magnet. And here I am, married with 4 kids, and every little honey in town from high school on up, suddenly has me on her radar.
I remember a gal at the feed store, where I'd pulled up alongside the loading dock, where she could just barely lean in my window... And I remember thinking as she gushed at me and made her intentions all too clear, how she was just a kid late 20's, maybe early 30's at the most...
So yeah, it's relative, I guess.
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So.... are we whipping out scripture to see who has the biggest verse?
:th_10444: Would seem that is the callout.... 888high58888 I am not just Sola Scriptura though. I am Catholic, so I hold deeds as well.
Which is why my first point was that God impregnated a 12-14 year old virgin. And the Natural demarcation between the sexes.
However, should @musiclady wish to pursue this angle, should be interesting.... maybe. Waiting on the first verse thrower, to cast one.
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Heck, man, I'd define 20's and even 30's as children...
In my late 30's early 40's, I'd finally made my mark, and had the dough laying around to build me an awesome truck... And not only was it a sky-jacked ground-pounder, for the first time ever, I made it a thing of beauty... All teal and chrome, with bright yellow points, with 13" of lift and 44's, and a rumble that set off car alarms just driving by....
Around here, such a thing is a guaranteed chick magnet. And here I am, married with 4 kids, and every little honey in town from high school on up, suddenly has me on her radar.
I remember a gal at the feed store, where I'd pulled up alongside the loading dock, where she could just barely lean in my window... And I remember thinking as she gushed at me and made her intentions all too clear, how she was just a kid late 20's, maybe early 30's at the most...
So yeah, it's relative, I guess.
Right, I am 56, cannot see being with anyone younger than 40. At least not for anything permanent.
Now in my younger years, Spokane ... there were these three girls.. 19, 20, 22... I was 30. Two sisters in that group. Lets just say.. what a night... "Bless me Father for I have sinned"....
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:th_10444: Would seem that is the callout.... 888high58888 I am not just Sola Scriptura though. I am Catholic, so I hold deeds as well.
Which is why my first point was that God impregnated a 12-14 year old virgin. And the Natural demarcation between the sexes.
However, should @musiclady wish to pursue this angle, should be interesting.... maybe. Waiting on the first verse thrower, to cast one.
We really don't know how old Mary was. And, I'm not sure "impregnated" is the correct word.
But, I found this an interesting explanation:
Liberal thinkers try to say that young girls were married off at extremely young ages in Bible times (like the age you were told, 14), but we do not see that at all as the general rule in Bible times. God Himself set the age of being accountable for life decisions at 20 years old. Numbers 14:28-30 says, "Say unto them, As truly as I live, saith the LORD, as ye have spoken in mine ears, so will I do to you: Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me, Doubtless ye shall not come into the land, concerning which I sware to make you dwell therein, save Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun." Maybe that is why Jacob was willing to work 7 years for Rachel's hand in marriage, because she had not quite reached 20 years old, yet. We do not know, because it does not say. Genesis 29:18 says, "And Jacob loved Rachel; and said, I will serve thee seven years for Rachel thy younger daughter."...
http://www.libertygospeltracts.com/question/prequest/josephmaryages.htm (http://www.libertygospeltracts.com/question/prequest/josephmaryages.htm)
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Have you talked to any 14, 15, 16 year-olds lately? Purity is so last century.
I have a 18 year old grand daughter and 15 year old grandson we raised, along with their older siblings and cousins (13 in all). My oldest great grandchild is rapidly approaching puberty. would venture to guess that there are 15 year old "children" out there who have had a variety of sexual situations and experiences that would rival or surpass the acts of any adult on this board, just from conversations between 'kids' I have overheard.
I'm not saying that is a good thing, either.
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I have a 18 year old grand daughter and 15 year old grandson we raised, along with their older siblings and cousins (13 in all). My oldest great grandchild is rapidly approaching puberty. would venture to guess that there are 15 year old "children" out there who have had a variety of sexual situations and experiences that would rival or surpass the acts of any adult on this board, just from conversations between 'kids' I have overheard.
I'm not saying that is a good thing, either.
No, I'm not saying it's a good thing either.
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Yes, the part I quoted above covers that time period.
The visual does add some clarity, would you not say? Not that you were trying to obfuscate or anything. :whistle:
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We really don't know how old Mary was. And, I'm not sure "impregnated" is the correct word.
It doesn't matter. And it is the right word.
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The visual does add some clarity, would you not say? Not that you were trying to obfuscate or anything. :whistle:
Only for those of us who need a picture drawn to understand the data. :whistle:
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We really don't know how old Mary was. And, I'm not sure "impregnated" is the correct word.
But, I found this an interesting explanation:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+14%3A28-30&version=NIV (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+14%3A28-30&version=NIV)
Your passage has nothing to do with sexual mores. It deals with those who spaek against God.
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Only for those of us who need a picture drawn to understand the data. :whistle:
Something about a thousand words.
I am glad you agree that the data reveals just which gender elects socialist/democrats.
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It doesn't matter. And it is the right word.
Right!
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It doesn't matter. And it is the right word.
Now, I'm not an expert on Mary by any means, but I get the impression that, in today's terms, none of her DNA was used. Jesus was the Son of God and fully God. So, I do question that term.
Additionally, according to some Catholic girls I ran around with in high school, Mary was a perpetual virgin, implying that she was not impregnated, but her womb used. OK, it's making me dizzy, I'd rather argue angels on heads of pins.
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Something about a thousand words.
I am glad you agree that the data reveals just which gender elects socialist/democrats.
It's numbers, not words.
And, no, we don't agree.
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:yawn2:
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@Fantom
I haven't seen any emotion from @musiclady. I did see a little smoke coming from your ears a moment ago, though.
Like I said...anytime you want to get arrogant and pound that chest over your male intellect, remember what I said. Men are easy. Very easy. ^-^
Ironic that the fella who apparently thinks the 7th Commandment applies only to women, but not men, and thinks that God's laws are "PC" is here on a thread about Roy Moore, who fought FOR the Ten Commandments.
Poor @Fantom believes that, since God made men and women different, that His laws don't apply to men........... just women.
Convenient for the fellas (especially those with smoke coming out of their ears), I guess, but the polar opposite of truth.
@CatherineofAragon
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It's numbers, not words.
And, no, we don't agree.
So you really do not agree that women vote for socialist/democrats by a majority of their vote?
Well ok, you are enjoying whatever the color of the sky in your world... but that color does not include truth.
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Right, I am 56, cannot see being with anyone younger than 40. At least not for anything permanent.
@Fantom
I am 56 too.
The first girl after I busted out of the funk of my divorce was 37, the next early 40's.... After that I decidedly shifted older... Not even paying mind to anything 40's at all...
Unfortunately, all that's loose (and I use that term with more than one purpose) in their 50's come wit boob jobs and miniskirts, trying to relive their glory days... Only a handful are worthy of regard. And that is the sad state of things.
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@musiclady
While technically correct, not entirely true. The Father sets special store by virgin daughters. There is a special emphasis there that is not expressed toward males which, oddly enough, probably results in the special exception for female virginity that you see as a double standard, long present in Christendom.
Admittedly, it doesn't justify that double standard per se, but the female sense is held on a higher plane of honor - whence comes nunneries, virgin brides, and etc - There is an added value.
That does not mean that men are not to be chaste, as they should be, But the Biblical emphasis is upon the woman in that regard - there is no denying that.
Again............... when Fantom gives me the Scriptural references where moral laws are specifically only for women, and that all the passages of the Bible talking about the importance of sexual morality don't apply to men (God's law, he says *****rollingeyes*****), I will accede the point that the God given difference between men and women gives men a pass from the command to be pure.
Until then............ enough of his tommyrot.
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Ironic that the fella who apparently thinks the 7th Commandment applies only to women, but not men, and thinks that God's laws are "PC" is here on a thread about Roy Moore, who fought FOR the Ten Commandments.
Poor @Fantom believes that, since God made men and women different, that His laws don't apply to men........... just women.
Convenient for the fellas (especially those with smoke coming out of their ears), I guess, but the polar opposite of truth.
@CatherineofAragon
Maybe you should consider the 9th commandment.
No where do I say the 7th commandment only applies to women. Nor have I said that Gods laws are PC(just the opposite) Those are your falsehoods. Your false witness.
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Ironic that the fella who apparently thinks the 7th Commandment applies only to women, but not men, and thinks that God's laws are "PC" is here on a thread about Roy Moore, who fought FOR the Ten Commandments.
Poor @Fantom believes that, since God made men and women different, that His laws don't apply to men........... just women.
Convenient for the fellas (especially those with smoke coming out of their ears), I guess, but the polar opposite of truth.
@CatherineofAragon
Wives must obey their husbands. Husbands cleaving to their wives and treating wives as they'd treat themselves? Not so much.
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Again............... when Fantom gives me the Scriptural references where moral laws are specifically only for women, and that all the passages of the Bible talking about the importance of sexual morality don't apply to men (God's law, he says *****rollingeyes*****), I will accede the point that the God given difference between men and women gives men a pass from the command to be pure.
Until then............ enough of his tommyrot.
You are talking a lot about scripture... yet fail to produce even one verse.
I find that funny, as many verses are inhibitions upon men. Take Leviticus, evidently women can lay with other women as if with a man.
Care to go on...your turn.
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So.... are we whipping out scripture to see who has the biggest verse?
Nice! :beer:
@mystery-ak not to be picky, but can we get clinking wine glasses? :silly: :silly: :silly:
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Nice! :beer:
@mystery-ak not to be picky, but can we get clinking wine glasses? :silly: :silly: :silly:
(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/two-wine-glasses-clinking-together-splashy-toast-white-backgroung-red-49843921.jpg)