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General Category => National/Breaking News => Topic started by: mystery-ak on May 07, 2015, 05:45:25 pm

Title: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: mystery-ak on May 07, 2015, 05:45:25 pm
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Newsmax
Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Thursday, May 7, 2015 12:45 PM

By: Melanie Batley

Pope Francis has decreed that priests may absolve women of the "sin of a procured abortion" during the Holy Year next year, The Washington Post reported.

Ordinarily, only bishops or the Pope himself can absolve people of the sin of abortion, which leads to excommunication from the Catholic Church. The move will empower priests to pardon women for having an abortion, while the Vatican will be sending out "missionaries of mercy" across the world.

"The missionaries of mercy are priests sent out by the Holy Father at the beginning of Lent. The Pope is sending them out [to dioceses and parishes] as a tangible sign of how a priest should be a man of pardon, close to everyone," Archbishop Rino Fisichella, the president of the Pontifical Council for the New Evangelization and the Pope's point man on the organization of Holy Year, according to The Irish Times.

Fisichella said that the absolution would be extended not only to women who had gotten an abortion, but also to doctors and health workers who had performed it.

The move would be significant given that the United Nations has previously condemned the church for excommunicating the mother and doctor of a nine-year-old girl who had an abortion in Brazil in 2009 after she was raped by her stepfather and became pregnant with twins, the Daily Mail reported.

Some have been quick to point out that the Pope's decision to pardon abortion during the Holy Year does not change the church's position on abortion and that there's a risk of it causing confusion.

"Regardless of this decision by the Pope, the church will continue to consider abortion a sin. I hope it does not cause confusion," said Italian Cardinal Velasio De Paolis, according to the Times.

The Pope has been a vocal opponent of abortion calling it "a sin against God," but the year of mercy is intended to reunite estranged Catholics with the church, the Post said.

In a papal bull issued last month, the pope discussed the thinking behind the Jubilee of Mercy, saying the church must be "an oasis of mercy" and "The Church's very credibility is seen in how she shows merciful and compassionate love," the Post said.

"During Lent of this Holy Year, I intend to send out 'Missionaries of Mercy,'" he said. "They will be a sign of the Church's maternal solicitude for the People of God, enabling them to enter the profound richness of this mystery so fundamental to the faith.

"There will be priests to whom I will grant the authority to pardon even those sins reserved to the Holy See, so that the breadth of their mandate as confessors will be even clearer. They will be, above all, living signs of the Father's readiness to welcome those in search of his pardon."
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: mystery-ak on May 07, 2015, 05:45:50 pm
WOW...never thought I would see this..
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: raml on May 07, 2015, 05:57:34 pm
You ask God's forgiveness not a stand in. Go to the real forgiver. The pope is a joke. I was raised Catholic so don't say I have no knowledge of this religion because I do have knowledge and a bible to check this religions accuracy. I can say that this is not the one true church not even close and this pope is so not a Christian.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: flowers on May 07, 2015, 06:12:47 pm
Ever since I found out the new AG is for partial birth abortion I have been thinking the left will get its way an make it legal.  Now I read this.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: Dexter on May 07, 2015, 06:13:40 pm
He still believes abortion is wrong. He seems to believe that all sins can be forgiven by God. Do the posters here disagree with that?
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: evadR on May 07, 2015, 06:24:46 pm
I can personally forgive almost all sins except murder.  I'll leave that up to God when the murderer finally meets Him face to face.
The Pope can say whatever he wants.  It means very little to me.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: aligncare on May 07, 2015, 06:32:12 pm
"The pope is a joke."

Not in my Roman Catholic neighborhood and family.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: mystery-ak on May 07, 2015, 06:41:34 pm
He still believes abortion is wrong. He seems to believe that all sins can be forgiven by God. Do the posters here disagree with that?

I disagree with His Holiness on this...nuff said.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: EC on May 07, 2015, 06:42:49 pm
Good.

Forgiving major sins is always done in Holy Year, though you normally have to go to Rome to get it. God has final say, of course, but why bar someone from the Church for a sin they regret?
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: mystery-ak on May 07, 2015, 06:43:33 pm
Please...I did not post this article for people to disparage the Pope or Catholicism.....tread carefully.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: NavyCanDo on May 07, 2015, 06:53:04 pm
Not meaning to get in any argument with my Catholic friends here, but as a non-Catholic, I find it very foreign that priest, a bishop or even the Pope himself can absolve sin.  Any sin.  The blood of my Lord Jesus and his unyielding Grace is sufficient  to forgive All Sin, even murder, even abortion, even blasphemy, and that is the only one I seek forgiveness from,  except for those I may have wronged by my sin. At His death on the Cross, the curtain to the Holy of Holy’s was torn signifying we do not have to seek a High Priest  any more to have fellowship with Him, or to ask for forgiveness.   
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: EC on May 07, 2015, 06:58:36 pm
Way I see it is God's grace is more than sufficient for your soul.

Society is a different kettle of fish, and penitance and forgiveness followed by returning to taking the Sacrament and attending Mass is a public sign you are forgiven. Important back in the day when most people never went more than 5 miles from their village.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: aligncare on May 07, 2015, 07:02:56 pm
Not meaning to get in any argument with my Catholic friends here, but as a non-Catholic, I find it very foreign that priest, a bishop or even the Pope himself can absolve sin.  Any sin.  The blood of my Lord Jesus and his unyielding Grace is sufficient  to forgive All Sin, even murder, even abortion, even blasphemy, and that is the only one I seek forgiveness from,  except for those I may have wronged by my sin. At His death on the Cross, the curtain to the Holy of Holy’s was torn signifying we do not have to seek a High Priest  any more to have fellowship with Him, or to ask for forgiveness.

Hey I don't make the rules, I just follow them, and Him, as best I can – given my human fallibility.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: mystery-ak on May 07, 2015, 07:17:34 pm
Does God forgive all who truly repents...even the most heinous amongst us....Like abortion Dr Gosnell who murdered hundreds, thousands of babies....can God forgive such a monster or will he too be so appalled he would condemn him to Hell?





btw..I am breaking one of my own rules...discussing religion..lol :smokin:
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: EC on May 07, 2015, 07:23:19 pm
Myst - I honestly don't know.

I can't imagine it, but I can't imagine infinite knowledge either. I just follow the rules (mostly), trust in His Grace, and remember the wise words of a friend of mine: "God gave you everything and owes you nothing. It's on you to be worthy of His gifts."
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: GourmetDan on May 07, 2015, 07:31:31 pm
Does God forgive all who truly repents...even the most heinous amongst us....Like abortion Dr Gosnell who murdered hundreds, thousands of babies....can God forgive such a monster or will he too me so appalled he would condemn him to Hell?

Of course God forgives all who truly repent... even the most heinous among us.

Ezekiel 18:23 - "Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?"

Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: Dexter on May 07, 2015, 07:49:05 pm
Myst - I honestly don't know.

I can't imagine it, but I can't imagine infinite knowledge either.

Infinite perspective too.  ^-^
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: PzLdr on May 07, 2015, 08:10:13 pm
WOW...never thought I would see this..

It's what happens when they make a Jesuit the Pope.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: mystery-ak on May 07, 2015, 08:20:32 pm
It's what happens when they make a Jesuit the Pope.

I was taught by some Jesuits in High School.

We had a young Jesuit Priest who taught religion..we used to try and stump him..similar to this abortion question we once asked if he would grant absolution to a Nazi war criminal who was responsible for thousands of deaths..and without hesitation he replied that he would if he thought the person was sincere but only God knows what is in a person's heart and only he can grant final absolution.

But it never answered my one question that I have had all my life..is there one thing that even God can't forgive?
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: Dexter on May 07, 2015, 08:23:06 pm
But it never answered my one question that I have had all my life..is there one thing that even God can't forgive?

Holding grudges seems unbecoming of a supreme being.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: mystery-ak on May 07, 2015, 08:34:48 pm
Holding grudges seems unbecoming of a supreme being.

I wouldn't call it holding a grudge...more of a punishment or condemnation....
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: MACVSOG68 on May 07, 2015, 08:41:54 pm


btw..I am breaking one of my own rules...discussing religion..lol :smokin:

Shame...shame!  Need I remind you of the "Wide-Awakes" punishment for owners... :silly:
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: mystery-ak on May 07, 2015, 08:51:52 pm
Shame...shame!  Need I remind you of the "Wide-Awakes" punishment for owners... :silly:

Those were the days..... :nometalk:

...paging Luis...paging Luis... :whistle:
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: PzLdr on May 07, 2015, 10:07:21 pm
Holding grudges seems unbecoming of a supreme being.

Not in the Old Testament.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: MACVSOG68 on May 07, 2015, 10:50:44 pm
Those were the days..... :nometalk:

...paging Luis...paging Luis... :whistle:

Heh, heh.  Someone should write a book.  I'd guess few here today have a clue what we're even talking about...hopefully!   :whistle:
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: aligncare on May 07, 2015, 11:04:59 pm
Heh, heh.  Someone should write a book.  I'd guess few here today have a clue what we're even talking about...hopefully!   :whistle:

I sort of remember WA, but the details are fuzzy.

MAC. Did you hop over to The Fort after the demise of Wide Awakes? That's the route I took before someone mercifully invited me here. It's been all good ever since.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: sinkspur on May 07, 2015, 11:25:18 pm
I disagree with His Holiness on this...nuff said.

Then you must believe there are sins that can't be forgiven. That is not the teaching of any Church, to my knowledge, especially the Catholic Church.

And it is certainly not the teaching of Jesus.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: sinkspur on May 07, 2015, 11:26:25 pm
You ask God's forgiveness not a stand in. Go to the real forgiver. The pope is a joke. I was raised Catholic so don't say I have no knowledge of this religion because I do have knowledge and a bible to check this religions accuracy. I can say that this is not the one true church not even close and this pope is so not a Christian.

You are a bigot. Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it to everybody.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: sinkspur on May 07, 2015, 11:30:05 pm
Does God forgive all who truly repents...even the most heinous amongst us....Like abortion Dr Gosnell who murdered hundreds, thousands of babies....can God forgive such a monster or will he too be so appalled he would condemn him to Hell?





btw..I am breaking one of my own rules...discussing religion..lol :


No sin is unforgiveable if the pentent earnestly seeks forgiveness and pledges not to sin again. God is all merciful.  The story of the Prodigal Son indicates the attitude of the Father to us, his wayward children.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: MACVSOG68 on May 07, 2015, 11:33:23 pm
I sort of remember WA, but the details are fuzzy.

MAC. Did you hop over to The Fort after the demise of Wide Awakes? That's the route I took before someone mercifully invited me here. It's been all good ever since.

Yes, with a couple of stops in between.  Then there was Fort2 which I think only lasted a short time.  Quite a few came and went after the big TOS purge in 2007.  There's still one around directly emanating from the WA revolt and demise I believe, but this is the most comfortable of all of them, even though I don't spend as much time as I used to.  But I don't want to hijack the thread.   :pondering:
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: mystery-ak on May 07, 2015, 11:34:40 pm
Heh, heh.  Someone should write a book.  I'd guess few here today have a clue what we're even talking about...hopefully!   :whistle:

I must say..those that were involved in the coup had great fun in planning it...and it was planned and executed well! :whistle:
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: mystery-ak on May 07, 2015, 11:40:21 pm
Then you must believe there are sins that can't be forgiven. That is not the teaching of any Church, to my knowledge, especially the Catholic Church.

And it is certainly not the teaching of Jesus.

Yes..I know it's the teaching of Jesus...my rhetorical question can only be answered by God...guess I will have to wait and see
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: ABX on May 07, 2015, 11:43:12 pm
God forgives ALL sins, not just SMALL sins.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: mystery-ak on May 08, 2015, 12:06:51 am
God did not forgive all sins...especially the people of Sodom...but that's a whole other discussion.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: sinkspur on May 08, 2015, 12:36:10 am
God did not forgive all sins...especially the people of Sodom...but that's a whole other discussion.

 Repentance is necessary for the forgiveness of sin.

The only unforgiveable sin is believing that you have committed a sin so bad that God cannot forgive it.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: Bigun on May 08, 2015, 12:43:17 am
Does God forgive all who truly repents...even the most heinous amongst us....Like abortion Dr Gosnell who murdered hundreds, thousands of babies....can God forgive such a monster or will he too be so appalled he would condemn him to Hell?





btw..I am breaking one of my own rules...discussing religion..lol :smokin:

Quote
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

Luke 17:2
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: MACVSOG68 on May 08, 2015, 01:03:38 am
I must say..those that were involved in the coup had great fun in planning it...and it was planned and executed well! :whistle:

Indeed, it came as quite a surprise to most of us there.  Sure glad no one here had anything to do with it... *hmmmm*
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: mystery-ak on May 08, 2015, 01:07:20 am
Indeed, it came as quite a surprise to most of us there.  Sure glad no one here had anything to do with it... *hmmmm*

 888blackhat
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: ABX on May 08, 2015, 01:11:47 am
Repentance is necessary for the forgiveness of sin.

The only unforgiveable sin is believing that you have committed a sin so bad that God cannot forgive it.

When one goes to a priest asking for absolution, they are repenting. This isn't blowing off the sin. Darn, I agree with sink twice in a week.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: mountaineer on May 08, 2015, 01:15:27 am
You are a bigot. Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it to everybody.
Namecalling is not quite the same as serious and civil discussion.
raml merely expressed an opinion based on personal experience. That you disagree with raml's opinion doesn't mean hers was bigoted.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: Fishrrman on May 08, 2015, 01:36:39 am
"Is the Pope Catholic?"

Well, he used to be...
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: DCPatriot on May 08, 2015, 02:40:41 am


There's a reason why the College of Cardinals preferred Cardinals of Italian descent to be elected to the Papacy. 

We Conservative Catholics had our 'Ronald Reagan' of Popes in the Polish guy.  Karol Józef Wojtyła, aka Pope John Paul II.  He was part of the trinity (Thatcher/Reagan) that brought upon the Soviet Union's demise.   Without firing a shot.

It was a proud 'moment' for us.

So, for some strange reason, let's do it again.  This time, we'll pick a humble, good man.....who's an anti-Capitalist Socialist.  From freaking South America!!

Obama.....Jorge Mario Bergoglio.

It's like gasoline sitting next to a bonfire.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on May 08, 2015, 07:25:15 pm
I must say..those that were involved in the coup had great fun in planning it...and it was planned and executed well! :whistle:

(http://www.nndb.com/people/181/000032085/schultz.jpg)
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on May 08, 2015, 07:46:41 pm
You ask God's forgiveness not a stand in. Go to the real forgiver. The pope is a joke. I was raised Catholic so don't say I have no knowledge of this religion because I do have knowledge and a bible to check this religions accuracy. I can say that this is not the one true church not even close and this pope is so not a Christian.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDjABe_IgWM
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on May 08, 2015, 07:49:15 pm
Yes..I know it's the teaching of Jesus...my rhetorical question can only be answered by God...guess I will have to wait and see

The question has already been answered.

“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9)

I see no qualifiers or exceptions there, do you?
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on May 08, 2015, 08:00:37 pm
When one goes to a priest asking for absolution, they are repenting. This isn't blowing off the sin. Darn, I agree with sink twice in a week.

Oh s#it.

It's the beginning of the Zombie Apocalyse for sure now.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: mrclose on May 09, 2015, 12:42:27 am
Does God forgive all who truly repents...even the most heinous amongst us....Like abortion Dr Gosnell who murdered hundreds, thousands of babies....can God forgive such a monster or will he too be so appalled he would condemn him to Hell?

btw..I am breaking one of my own rules...discussing religion..lol :smokin:

No, He doesn't.

Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable.

Quote
Matthew 12:31 Jesus says, "And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: sinkspur on May 09, 2015, 02:04:12 am
Namecalling is not quite the same as serious and civil discussion.
raml merely expressed an opinion based on personal experience. That you disagree with raml's opinion doesn't mean hers was bigoted.

Sorry, I've been through these dust ups with raml before. She despises the Catholic Church and all things Catholic. Nothing about her post was civil.

Bigot was an appropriate accusation.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: sinkspur on May 09, 2015, 02:06:06 am
No, He doesn't.

Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable.

And what do you think that is?  It is, in fact, the mistaken assumption that there is a sin or sins that God cannot forgive.  The Spirit moves us toward forgiveness, and we ignore Him when we think we're so bad God cannot reach us.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: mrclose on May 09, 2015, 06:53:03 am
And what do you think that is?  It is, in fact, the mistaken assumption that there is a sin or sins that God cannot forgive.  The Spirit moves us toward forgiveness, and we ignore Him when we think we're so bad God cannot reach us.
I have no idea what you just wrote?

Jesus said it so I believe it!

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit in the days of Jesus was committed by the the Pharisees, having witnessed irrefutable proof that Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, claimed instead that the Lord was possessed by the demon “Beelzebub” (Matthew 12:24).

This blasphemy has to do with someone accusing Jesus Christ of being demon-possessed instead of Spirit-filled.


The blasphemy of the Spirit today, which is the same as the unpardonable sin, is the state of continued unbelief.

There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief.

Continual rejection of the Holy Spirit’s promptings to trust in Jesus Christ is the unpardonable blasphemy against Him.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: evadR on May 09, 2015, 01:04:23 pm
Great God, why is everyone so anxious to forgive?  Let God take care of that.
Until then I'd like to see a little more justice, complete with punishment.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: jmyrlefuller on May 09, 2015, 02:28:34 pm
Great God, why is everyone so anxious to forgive?  Let God take care of that.
Until then I'd like to see a little more justice, complete with punishment.
Jesus does call us to forgive, but only if the person repents.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: EC on May 09, 2015, 02:43:03 pm
Forgiveness is not for the benefit of the forgiven, like funerals are not for the benefit of the corpse.
Title: Re: Pope to Ease Way for Forgiving 'Sin of Abortion' in Holy Year
Post by: sinkspur on May 12, 2015, 12:12:53 am
I want to make clear if anybody is still reading this thread, that any Catholic priest, anywhere, can absolve the sin of procuring an abortion.  This sin is NOT reserved to the Pope or to the local bishop.