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General Category => Elections 2024 => Topic started by: libertybele on April 30, 2023, 07:47:14 pm

Title: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it's 'n
Post by: libertybele on April 30, 2023, 07:47:14 pm
Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it's 'not the role of government' to punish a business you disagree with

Asa Hutchinson, a Republican candidate for president, responded to Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis' spat with Disney on Sunday, saying it's "not the role of government" to punish a business with which one disagrees.

During an interview on CNN's "State of the Union," host Dana Bash asked Hutchinson about his stance on fellow Republicans "using the government to change social policy and wage culture wars?"

"I don't like what Disney said about the legislation that I would have supported in Florida, but it's not the role of government to punish a business when you disagree with what they're saying or a position that they take," Hutchinson said.

Disney publicly criticized DeSantis' so-called "Don't Say Gay" bill, which he signed into law last March. It prevents teachers in kindergarten to third grade from holding classroom discussions about sexual orientation and gender identity.

In retaliation, DeSantis threatened changes to Disney's special tax district. Disney filed a lawsuit last week against DeSantis — who is expected to announce his own White House bid — claiming that the governor's ongoing actions against Disney violate its Constitutional rights......................

https://www.businessinsider.com/asa-hutchinson-responds-to-desantis-and-disney-feud-2023-4
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on April 30, 2023, 09:25:24 pm
Quote
....says it's 'not the role of government' to punish a business you disagree with

Wasn't this once a cornerstone "conservative" principle?
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: roamer_1 on April 30, 2023, 10:45:56 pm
Wasn't this once a cornerstone "conservative" principle?

No. But when the 'punishment' is simply taking away privileges previously awarded that business, not awarded equally to other businesses, the point is moot.

That privilege was awarded to a family friendly, wholesome company... Which it is no more.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: cato potatoe on April 30, 2023, 10:48:23 pm
Hutchinson is a loser.   If Walmart started pushing Arkansas to sell castration to its schoolchildren, the state would be within its rights to remove any welfare granted to the company. 
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: LMAO on April 30, 2023, 11:02:42 pm
From the article...
"I don't like what Disney said about the legislation that I would have supported in Florida, but it's not the role of government to punish a business when you disagree with what they're saying or a position that they take," Hutchinson said.

We need to be careful with this. I prefer a Disney boycott from the people vs government intervention. I am always suspicious of government overreach and setting bad precedent that could come back to haunt us

Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on April 30, 2023, 11:39:37 pm
No. But when the 'punishment' is simply taking away privileges previously awarded that business, not awarded equally to other businesses, the point is moot.

That privilege was awarded to a family friendly, wholesome company... Which it is no more.

Where is this "wholesomeness" mentioned and defined in the agreement?  Where in the agreement is the government's right to takeover if the private company strayed from this "wholesomeness"?  (Serious questions)
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on April 30, 2023, 11:43:15 pm
Hutchinson is a loser.   If Walmart started pushing Arkansas to sell castration to its schoolchildren, the state would be within its rights to remove any welfare granted to the company.

Would it be on the right side of conservative "principles" to give the governor the sole right to appoint a private company's BODs?
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: roamer_1 on May 01, 2023, 12:01:05 am
Where is this "wholesomeness" mentioned and defined in the agreement?  Where in the agreement is the government's right to takeover if the private company strayed from this "wholesomeness"?  (Serious questions)

Doesn't have to be. And the government is not 'taking it over'.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: cato potatoe on May 01, 2023, 12:25:10 am
Would it be on the right side of conservative "principles" to give the governor the sole right to appoint a private company's BODs?

No.  The board appointed by DeSantis oversees a government entity.  The prior board was a puppet of the corporation.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: roamer_1 on May 01, 2023, 12:34:19 am
Would it be on the right side of conservative "principles" to give the governor the sole right to appoint a private company's BODs?

That's not true. Reedy Creek is not Disney.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: GtHawk on May 01, 2023, 01:37:52 am
Maybe it's just me but when I look at what's happening with Disney, Florida and DeSantis I see a Florida issue, not a National issue and not a Presidential election issue, unless DeSantis is doing something with Disney on a national level...which he can't. So all this is just about Trump's surrogates and those auditioning for his VP spot attacking DeSantis for doing his job representing the people of Florida...who so far I have not read about them complaining.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: libertybele on May 01, 2023, 01:40:32 am
Maybe it's just me but when I look at what's happening with Disney, Florida and DeSantis I see a Florida issue, not a National issue and not a Presidential election issue, unless DeSantis is doing something with Disney on a national level...which he can't. So all this is just about Trump's surrogates and those auditioning for his VP spot attacking DeSantis for doing his job representing the people of Florida...who so far I have not read about them complaining.

Good assessment @GtHawk  - I agree
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 01, 2023, 04:35:55 am
when I look at what's happening with Disney, Florida and DeSantis I see a Florida issue, not a National issue and not a Presidential election issue

Except DeSantis's entire campaign is: "Florida: The Blueprint for America".  So the governor-wannabe president choosing corporate winners and losers based on his personal political strategy, potentially damning First Amendment protections and contract law in the process sure matter, bigly.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: roamer_1 on May 01, 2023, 06:56:05 am
Except DeSantis's entire campaign is: "Florida: The Blueprint for America".  So the governor-wannabe president choosing corporate winners and losers based on his personal political strategy, potentially damning First Amendment protections and contract law in the process sure matter, bigly.

What bullcrap! Removing privilege from bad acting companies is not the same as 'deciding corporate winners and losers. In a FAIR system, Disney would not have had the Reedy Creek development AT ALL. What of all the other resorts in FL that never got such deference?

Your angst rings hollow.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: catfish1957 on May 01, 2023, 07:05:41 am
Wasn't this once a cornerstone "conservative" principle?

Let us know where you live, and we'll make sure a 20 acre hog farm is built nearby.  Bet you might want governmental intervention then.

Stopping the sponsorship of the grooming and degredation of our youth is more of a "conservative principle" than what you cite.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on May 01, 2023, 02:37:45 pm
What bullcrap! Removing privilege from bad acting companies is not the same as 'deciding corporate winners and losers. In a FAIR system, Disney would not have had the Reedy Creek development AT ALL. What of all the other resorts in FL that never got such deference?

Your angst rings hollow.

Pretty clear she has no idea exactly what the whole Reedy Creek situation involves.  But she's taken the position she has anyway because Trump said so.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on May 01, 2023, 02:39:59 pm
No. But when the 'punishment' is simply taking away privileges previously awarded that business, not awarded equally to other businesses, the point is moot.

That privilege was awarded to a family friendly, wholesome company... Which it is no more.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on May 01, 2023, 02:40:50 pm
Shut your mouth Asa, be glad we're not firing real bullets... for now.

We're at war with the left, total war.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: DefiantMassRINO on May 01, 2023, 02:56:00 pm
What the Government giveth, the Government can covet.

Government is not a trustworthy partner of business.  Government can unilaterally change the rules at any time.  Any tax break, any tax credit, any tax incentive, and any regulatory relief can be revoked at any time.

Contract Law is not what it used to be, especially in the wake of the 2008 Financial Collapse and the 2020 Covid Pandemic.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 01, 2023, 03:06:33 pm
Pretty clear she has no idea exactly what the whole Reedy Creek situation involves.

I assure you, I do.  And hiding behind "Reedy Creek" is clever, but it isn't going to work. 




Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 01, 2023, 03:36:43 pm
That's not true. Reedy Creek is not Disney.

Quote
On March 28, 2022, DeSantis signed into law the “Parental Rights in Education bill” — called the “Don’t Say Gay” bill by critics. Disney released a statement via Twitter the next day, arguing that the bill “should never have passed and should never have been signed into law.” The company wrote that its “goal” was “for this law to be repealed by the legislature or struck down in the courts,” adding that it would “remain committed to supporting the national and state organizations working to achieve that.”

DeSantis was enraged. “I think they crossed the line,” he warned during a news conference in Tallahassee the next day. In his book, “The Courage to Be Free: Florida’s Blueprint for America’s Revival,” DeSantis describes Disney’s statement as a “declaration of war.” The governor claims that by “promising to work to repeal the bill,” Disney “was pledging a frontal assault on a duly enacted law of the State of Florida.”

DeSantis is wrong. Disney merely expressed a contrary opinion. And expressing that opinion is protected by the First Amendment. The governor’s campaign of retaliation for exercising that right in turn violates that law.

Disney has the absolute right to express its opposition in any number of ways. For instance, it can financially back other like-minded groups, lobby Florida lawmakers, buy advertisements, produce a show to explain why it thinks the law damages society — or just tweet out a statement.

The Supreme Court’s decision in the Citizens United case supports Disney’s claim. Many argue (and we agree) that the decision unfairly skewed the ability of wealthy donors to influence elections. But the fact remains that under current Supreme Court case law, corporations have First Amendment rights when it comes to political speech. That means the government cannot retaliate against a corporation for exercising its right to free speech concerning proposed or enacted legislation. That’s exactly what DeSantis did.

In his own book, DeSantis essentially admits that he retaliated against Disney in a manner that clearly violates its First Amendment rights. He does not cite any illegal behavior on the company’s part — simply its political views. “Once Disney declared war on Florida families,” DeSantis writes of Disney’s opposition to the law, “it was clear to me that the company’s executives in Burbank had not considered the lack of real leverage that Disney has over the State of Florida.” That “leverage” included the fact that Disney couldn’t easily pick up and move its massive footprint, as well as the special privileges the company enjoys by effectively running its own local government — the Reedy Creek Improvement District.

The district was established in 1967 by an act of the Florida Legislature and grants Disney favorable financial terms, including a special tax status. DeSantis targeted this longstanding arrangement only after Disney publicly expressed its opposition to the “Don’t Say Gay” bill — an obvious violation of Disney’s First Amendment rights.

In fact, DeSantis writes that it “would have been unthinkable” to get the Florida Legislature to “re-evaluate” or “eliminate” the district “just a few weeks before Disney executives made the fateful decision to take sides in the woke culture wars.” DeSantis pays lip service to the “right” that the Walt Disney Co. and “its executives” have “to indulge in woke activism.” But he quickly adds that “Florida did not have to place the company on a pedestal while they do so,” arguing that Disney’s “special arrangement” became fair game.


https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/desantis-disney-first-amendment-rights-unconstitutional-rcna81974
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Kamaji on May 01, 2023, 03:38:43 pm
Fascinating how Trumpistas now want to give preferential treatment to certain corporations.  One would almost confuse them with the garden-variety liberals/progs who have done so for decades.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: roamer_1 on May 01, 2023, 03:49:01 pm
[...]

So what?
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 01, 2023, 03:51:47 pm
So what?

Violation of First Amendment protections are now "so what"? 

Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Hoodat on May 01, 2023, 03:51:56 pm
Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it's 'not the role of government' to punish a business you disagree with

The role of government is to guarantee equal protection under the law.  Which is what Governor DeSantis is doing.  Disney shouldn't be given preferential treatment over its competitors.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 01, 2023, 03:53:41 pm
Fascinating how Trumpistas now want to give preferential treatment to certain corporations.  One would almost confuse them with the garden-variety liberals/progs who have done so for decades.

So trampling the First Amendment is okay if it's done with conservative boots?
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Hoodat on May 01, 2023, 03:53:42 pm
Fascinating how Trumpistas now want to give preferential treatment to certain corporations.

It's what Democrats do.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Hoodat on May 01, 2023, 04:01:29 pm
So trampling the First Amendment is okay if it's done with conservative boots?

The First Amendment?  Do tell.  How precisely is the First Amendment being trampled here?  Please be specific.

(for reference:)
Quote
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: catfish1957 on May 01, 2023, 04:15:31 pm
Violation of First Amendment protections are now "so what"?

So much for you not riding the "dumb train" today.  Try yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre and claim 1st amendment protection.

Which is about as decent of analogy as there is, when protecting our youth from groomers like Disney.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: GtHawk on May 01, 2023, 04:45:42 pm
Except DeSantis's entire campaign is: "Florida: The Blueprint for America".  So the governor-wannabe president choosing corporate winners and losers based on his personal political strategy, potentially damning First Amendment protections and contract law in the process sure matter, bigly.
OMG! You mean that DeSantis wants to protect children on a national level as they do in Florida, and push for fiscal responsibility too? Holy crap you have convinced me I just have to vote for the guy that couldn't get things done by working with his majority in the house and senate to get laws passed instead of erasable EO's and rubber stamped every insane spending bill submitted by democrats....okay, okay just kidding, I just can't see me pulling the lever for Trump ever again. You know that saying fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me? Well with Trump there is no third time because that is the definition of insanity.

Now tell me how not voting for Trump is a vote for Brandon, I always enjoy a little pretzel logic. Pro tip pretzel logic is a polite term for BS.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Kamaji on May 01, 2023, 04:46:40 pm
OMG! You mean that DeSantis wants to protect children on a national level as they do in Florida, and push for fiscal responsibility too? Holy crap you have convinced me I just have to vote for the guy that couldn't get things done by working with his majority in the house and senate to get laws passed instead of erasable EO's and rubber stamped every insane spending bill submitted by democrats....okay, okay just kidding, I just can't see me pulling the lever for Trump ever again. You know that saying fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me? Well with Trump there is no third time because that is the definition of insanity.

Now tell me how not voting for Trump is a vote for Brandon, I always enjoy a little pretzel logic. Pro tip pretzel logic is a polite term for BS.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: roamer_1 on May 01, 2023, 05:12:32 pm
Violation of First Amendment protections are now "so what"?

He lost a case in court.
Again, so what?

Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: cato potatoe on May 01, 2023, 05:27:54 pm
I assure you, I do.  And hiding behind "Reedy Creek" is clever, but it isn't going to work.

Given their extreme protestation, I have to wonder what Disney was hiding IN Reedy Creek.  The relationship was utterly corrupt, and not in the interest of visitors or residents.  For years, first responders have complained about inadequate funding for salaries and equipment.  Disney as primary taxpayer had the incentive to be as cheap as possible.  They don’t want state inspections on their monorails either, which should give everyone the warm fuzzies.  Oh sure, you can sue if something happens, but you will deal with Disney’s scumbag lawyers for years and years.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: LMAO on May 01, 2023, 05:28:13 pm
What would the reaction here  be if Biden was doing the same thing to a company that opposed his agenda?
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 01, 2023, 05:38:30 pm
So much for you not riding the "dumb train" today.  Try yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre and claim 1st amendment protection.

Which is about as decent of analogy as there is, when protecting our youth from groomers like Disney.

I'm not questioning the political motivation, I'm questioning the method.  Why, as a "conservative" aren't you?
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 01, 2023, 05:45:22 pm
Given their extreme protestation, I have to wonder what Disney was hiding IN Reedy Creek.  The relationship was utterly corrupt, and not in the interest of visitors or residents.  For years, first responders have complained about inadequate funding for salaries and equipment.  Disney as primary taxpayer had the incentive to be as cheap as possible.

This could well be, but it has nothing to do with the actions against Disney the Governor chose to take.

Quote
In his own book, DeSantis essentially admits that he retaliated against Disney in a manner that clearly violates its First Amendment rights. He does not cite any illegal behavior on the company’s part — simply its political views. “Once Disney declared war on Florida families,” DeSantis writes of Disney’s opposition to the law, “it was clear to me that the company’s executives in Burbank had not considered the lack of real leverage that Disney has over the State of Florida.” That “leverage” included the fact that Disney couldn’t easily pick up and move its massive footprint, as well as the special privileges the company enjoys by effectively running its own local government — the Reedy Creek Improvement District.

The district was established in 1967 by an act of the Florida Legislature and grants Disney favorable financial terms, including a special tax status. DeSantis targeted this longstanding arrangement only after Disney publicly expressed its opposition to the “Don’t Say Gay” bill — an obvious violation of Disney’s First Amendment rights.

In fact, DeSantis writes that it “would have been unthinkable” to get the Florida Legislature to “re-evaluate” or “eliminate” the district “just a few weeks before Disney executives made the fateful decision to take sides in the woke culture wars.”


https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/desantis-disney-first-amendment-rights-unconstitutional-rcna81974
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on May 01, 2023, 05:50:39 pm
So trampling the First Amendment is okay if it's done with conservative boots?

How is Ron trampling the first amendment? Disney employees still have the right to speak.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on May 01, 2023, 05:54:15 pm
The problem with the lawsuit is the remedy.  Essentially, a court would have to hold that Florida is required to give Disney permanent and unique preferential treatment, with more rights than any other new or existing business in the state.  The higher up the case goes, the tougher an argument it becomes.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: catfish1957 on May 01, 2023, 05:54:35 pm
I'm not questioning the political motivation, I'm questioning the method.  Why, as a "conservative" aren't you?

Big difference in speech and POV, versus tangible actions and content that harms children. I hope you can see that.

8 year old grandkid on my lap yesterday asked why two men were kissing.  How do I answer that?
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: cato potatoe on May 01, 2023, 05:57:30 pm
This could well be, but it has nothing to do with the actions against Disney the Governor chose to take.

Speech can make a corporation unworthy of special treatment.  Call it retaliation if you wish, but it doesn’t matter.  Had Disney come out in favor of white supremacy, no reasonable person would say they deserve a unique version of corporate welfare, courtesy of the state of FL.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 01, 2023, 06:05:34 pm
How is Ron trampling the first amendment? Disney employees still have the right to speak.

So, too,, according to the Supreme Court, does a corporation ----- without retaliation from the government.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: catfish1957 on May 01, 2023, 06:07:22 pm
So, too,, according to the Supreme Court, does a corporation ----- without retaliation from the government.

lol...  been watching the enviro-scam, and government's war on the fossil fuel industry?  So much for that premise.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Kamaji on May 01, 2023, 06:12:02 pm
Poor widdle Trumpistas; so upset that big, bad, mean RDS is trying to strip special privileges and treatments from Disney, forcing it to live by its wits alone just like any other private corporation.

Disney attempted to use that privilege in connection with its attempts to continue to subvert the reasonable values and rights of the parents of children in Florida, and there is nothing unconservative with stripping that power from Disney as a consequence.

Disney has proven itself to not be a good steward of the privileges provided to it, and there is nothing wrong with stripping those privileges from it as a consequence.

Only a Trumpista would think otherwise.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 01, 2023, 06:28:31 pm
Speech can make a corporation unworthy of special treatment.

No, it cannot.  Political free speech is the very essence of the First Amendment ----- and the Supreme Court upheld that First Amendment protections apply to corporate entities.

The Citizens United case was a 5-4 decision supported by Roberts, Alito, Scalia, Thomas and Kennedy as the tie-breaker.  The decision was applauded by conservatives.

Quote
Disney has the absolute right to express its opposition in any number of ways. For instance, it can financially back other like-minded groups, lobby Florida lawmakers, buy advertisements, produce a show to explain why it thinks the law damages society — or just tweet out a statement.

The Supreme Court’s decision in the Citizens United case supports Disney’s claim. Many argue (and we agree) that the decision unfairly skewed the ability of wealthy donors to influence elections. But the fact remains that under current Supreme Court case law, corporations have First Amendment rights when it comes to political speech. That means the government cannot retaliate against a corporation for exercising its right to free speech concerning proposed or enacted legislation.

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/desantis-disney-first-amendment-rights-unconstitutional-rcna81974
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: cato potatoe on May 01, 2023, 06:48:16 pm
Written by Norman Eisen at MSNBC, a democrat.   :silly:   Keep it coming RIV. 
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Kamaji on May 01, 2023, 06:56:15 pm
Written by Norman Eisen at MSNBC, a democrat.   :silly:   Keep it coming RIV. 

:mauslaff:
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 01, 2023, 06:57:10 pm
The problem with the lawsuit is the remedy.  Essentially, a court would have to hold that Florida is required to give Disney permanent and unique preferential treatment, with more rights than any other new or existing business in the state.  The higher up the case goes, the tougher an argument it becomes.

Wrong.  The remedy is retaliation for protected political speech will not stand.  What happens next would be up to the governor.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 01, 2023, 06:58:06 pm
Written by Norman Eisen at MSNBC, a democrat.   :silly:   Keep it coming RIV.

What did he get wrong @cato potatoe

Did Roberts, Alito, Scalia, Thomas and Kennedy also get it wrong?




Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: roamer_1 on May 01, 2023, 07:03:32 pm
What would the reaction here  be if Biden was doing the same thing to a company that opposed his agenda?

Happens all the time...

BUT, to the direct question... Removing privilege and leveling the field, and causing a corporation to lose special exemption and fall under regulatory scrutiny is something I will always be *FOR*

Squaring  and leveling the playing field is a good thing... That does not stand in the way of being *FOR* deregulation and small government.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: roamer_1 on May 01, 2023, 07:17:38 pm
The problem with the lawsuit is the remedy.  Essentially, a court would have to hold that Florida is required to give Disney permanent and unique preferential treatment, with more rights than any other new or existing business in the state.  The higher up the case goes, the tougher an argument it becomes.

That's right. Failure to regulate being remedied by regulating - A direct responsibility of the state, which had been neglected through the means of a 'Good ol Boy' agreement certainly has no right to exist in perpetuity. Which implies in the least, that the favor exists only while the state considers them a 'good ol boy'.

What happens when a law suit comes against the state for NOT doing their duty?
Is the state liable for say, a monorail wreck where injury occurs, and the fact is found that the train did not meet state requirements in construction and maintenance, being held exempt... What then?
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: cato potatoe on May 01, 2023, 07:33:50 pm
What did he get wrong?

It started early.  He went to Hollywood High School, and then Ivy League schools, then he went to work for the ADL and Barack Obama.  He hates the Citizens United decision.  He has no appreciation for the first amendment beyond the ability to twist it to his advantage.  Why on earth would you trust him to compare the facts of this case to Citizens United? 
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: berdie on May 01, 2023, 10:16:16 pm
Speech can make a corporation unworthy of special treatment.  Call it retaliation if you wish, but it doesn’t matter.  Had Disney come out in favor of white supremacy, no reasonable person would say they deserve a unique version of corporate welfare, courtesy of the state of FL.



 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Hoodat on May 01, 2023, 10:50:21 pm
What did he get wrong @cato potatoe

Did Roberts, Alito, Scalia, Thomas and Kennedy also get it wrong?

Here it is again:

Quote
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

So explain exactly how Ron DeSantis is violating this?  Please be specific.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: catfish1957 on May 02, 2023, 01:13:30 am
I made a brief stop by Fox,and watched a disgusting ambush interview by Jones on Hutchison.

I don't care for Hutchison, either, but the kid was using a Hannity/60 Minutes tactics.  Lost a lot of respect for LJ tonight.

Fox is truly imploding.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Sighlass on May 02, 2023, 04:19:27 am
I seem to recall a certain President threatening certain companies if they moved out of country... I guess that was alright.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 02, 2023, 04:44:24 am
Happens all the time...

BUT, to the direct question... Removing privilege and leveling the field, and causing a corporation to lose special exemption and fall under regulatory scrutiny is something I will always be *FOR*

Squaring  and leveling the playing field is a good thing... That does not stand in the way of being *FOR* deregulation and small government.

Contract law be damned, right?
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 02, 2023, 04:55:08 am
Here it is again:

So explain exactly how Ron DeSantis is violating this?  Please be specific.

I have been specific, down to the SC decision by Roberts, Alito, Scalia, Thomas and Kennedy.  First Amendment rights and protections apply to corporations. Thusly, Disney can speak, tweet, lobby, raise money, et al. in opposition to proposed or signed legislation without retaliation from the governor.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Hoodat on May 02, 2023, 05:24:11 am
I have been specific, down to the SC decision by Roberts, Alito, Scalia, Thomas and Kennedy.  First Amendment rights and protections apply to corporations. Thusly, Disney can speak, tweet, lobby, raise money, et al. in opposition to proposed or signed legislation without retaliation from the governor.

That's not what Amendment I says.  Here it is again.  Read it first.  And then cite the exact wording that DeSantis is violating it.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Hoodat on May 02, 2023, 05:25:50 am
Contract law be damned, right?

Contract law?  Wow.  Tossing mud in every direction hoping it sticks to something.  Ok, I'll bite.  What contract is being violated?  Please be specific.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: roamer_1 on May 02, 2023, 07:29:41 am
Contract law be damned, right?

Always when the contract is designed or operated in bad faith.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Hoodat on May 02, 2023, 12:18:58 pm
Always when the contract is designed or operated in bad faith.

The 'contract' in question here is one between Disney and Disney.  The level of dishonesty needed to adopt such an argument is significantly poignant.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: roamer_1 on May 02, 2023, 05:49:17 pm
The 'contract' in question here is one between Disney and Disney.  The level of dishonesty needed to adopt such an argument is significantly poignant.

Right. The Reedy Creek board, when DeSantis overturned it, as it's last act before the new board took over, granted Disney total control of everything in perpetuity... How's that for an oversight board in the bag?

What part of 'oversight' is misunderstood?

Were I DeSantis, there would be a sudden rash of road construction around that joint, that might have to last for years and years
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 02, 2023, 05:54:28 pm
Always when the contract is designed or operated in bad faith.

But it wasn't ----- not once in 26 years; until:

Quote
The district was established in 1967 by an act of the Florida Legislature and grants Disney favorable financial terms, including a special tax status. DeSantis targeted this longstanding arrangement only after Disney publicly expressed its opposition to the “Don’t Say Gay” bill — an obvious violation of Disney’s First Amendment rights.

In fact, DeSantis writes that it “would have been unthinkable” to get the Florida Legislature to “re-evaluate” or “eliminate” the district “just a few weeks before Disney executives made the fateful decision to take sides in the woke culture wars.”

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/desantis-disney-first-amendment-rights-unconstitutional-rcna81974
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 02, 2023, 05:56:19 pm
The 'contract' in question here is one between Disney and Disney.  The level of dishonesty needed to adopt such an argument is significantly poignant.

Nonsense.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: roamer_1 on May 02, 2023, 06:10:01 pm
But it wasn't ----- not once in 26 years; until:

Right... Until Disney finally went woke enough to piss off the legislature of FL.

... Where they found they weren't in control of Reedy Creek, and hadn't been for a long, long time.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 02, 2023, 06:28:04 pm
Right... Until Disney finally went woke enough to piss off the legislature of FL.

The state's retaliation in response to a corporation's First Amendment rights is a no-no.  :nono:

Desantis better pray you're not subpoenaed.  88devil
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: cato potatoe on May 02, 2023, 06:41:30 pm
That's not what Amendment I says.  Here it is again.  Read it first.  And then cite the exact wording that DeSantis is violating it.

There is no violation.  It's a bunch of jabber from partisans and overgrown Disney fanatics.  Problem is the lower court judge is a moonbat.  When he stalled the Stop Woke Act, he accused Florida of being in a parallel dimension from the TV show Stranger Things.  I think DeSantis will lose or be injuncted, only to win on appeal years later, assuming Trump in his incompetence has not facilitated a court-packing scenario.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: LMAO on May 02, 2023, 06:52:50 pm

Is this an issue that would sell to the general electorate?  If you wanna make the case of the left grooming and transitioning children, you’d probably get more support than “I forced Disney out of Florida” assuming that ends up happening
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: roamer_1 on May 02, 2023, 07:01:51 pm
The state's retaliation in response to a corporation's First Amendment rights is a no-no.  :nono:

Desantis better pray you're not subpoenaed.  88devil

What bullcrap. Disney owning the members of its oversight board is the issue that needs remedy. And that oversight board giving Disney total control in perpetuity with no grounds for the state is a travesty that will not stand, SCOTUS or not.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: roamer_1 on May 02, 2023, 07:04:35 pm
Is this an issue that would sell to the general electorate?  If you wanna make the case of the left grooming and transitioning children, you’d probably get more support than “I forced Disney out of Florida” assuming that ends up happening

Disney is hemorrhaging from their woke preaching and homo grooming. Florida especially northern Florida, being very conservative, I can see this being a popular front.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: LMAO on May 02, 2023, 07:13:22 pm
Disney is hemorrhaging from their woke preaching and homo grooming. Florida especially northern Florida, being very conservative, I can see this being a popular front.

So why not just let it be a grassroots effort like Bud Light? If Biden was doing this with a corporation that opposed his agenda, what would the reaction be?

Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: roamer_1 on May 02, 2023, 07:42:59 pm
So why not just let it be a grassroots effort like Bud Light? If Biden was doing this with a corporation that opposed his agenda, what would the reaction be?

It already is grassroots - But that cannot address Reedy Creek, which is the spear point for me as far as governmental interference... Government did Reedy Creek, and government needs to fix it. And in that, I am all for DeSantis.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: LMAO on May 02, 2023, 08:08:14 pm
It already is grassroots - But that cannot address Reedy Creek, which is the spear point for me as far as governmental interference... Government did Reedy Creek, and government needs to fix it. And in that, I am all for DeSantis.

I did have Disney stock at one time. But after they embraced child grooming, I got rid of it.

That’s the kind of stuff I’d like to see versus government intervention. I do get the argument that if you’re getting special treatment from government,  the price of getting those favors is you have to toe the line of whoever is doling out those favors. Then that becomes an argument against any government/business alliance.

We just need to be careful. I’m very much against setting dangerous precedents
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on May 02, 2023, 09:04:15 pm
That's right. Failure to regulate being remedied by regulating - A direct responsibility of the state, which had been neglected through the means of a 'Good ol Boy' agreement certainly has no right to exist in perpetuity. Which implies in the least, that the favor exists only while the state considers them a 'good ol boy'.

What happens when a law suit comes against the state for NOT doing their duty?
Is the state liable for say, a monorail wreck where injury occurs, and the fact is found that the train did not meet state requirements in construction and maintenance, being held exempt... What then?

In this particular case, I think those kind of lawsuits are unlikely.  However, I think there's a pretty good argument that if a corporation is receiving special favors and making political arguments, it can be argued that the state is actually subsidizing that speech.  True state neutrality towards free speech requires the elimination of any special treatment.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on May 02, 2023, 09:05:13 pm
I
That’s the kind of stuff I’d like to see versus government intervention. I do get the argument that if you’re getting special treatment from government,  the price of getting those favors is you have to toe the line of whoever is doling out those favors. Then that becomes an argument against any government/business alliance.

And that would be a good thing.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: LMAO on May 02, 2023, 09:27:19 pm
And that would be a good thing.

Yup
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 02, 2023, 09:47:37 pm
What bullcrap. Disney owning the members of its oversight board is the issue that needs remedy.

That may be.  But it's not what prompted the Governor's and statehouse's actions against Disney.   We know this because the governor admitted in his book, during speeches, at press conferences, etc. that the actions taken were in direct response to Disney's vocal, woke opposition to the  "Don't Say Gay" law.

This sure appears to be quintessential government retaliation in contradiction to First Amendment rights.



Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: roamer_1 on May 02, 2023, 11:33:25 pm
In this particular case, I think those kind of lawsuits are unlikely.  However, I think there's a pretty good argument that if a corporation is receiving special favors and making political arguments, it can be argued that the state is actually subsidizing that speech.  True state neutrality towards free speech requires the elimination of any special treatment.

Certainly sounds right to me... Especially if you are another resort operating out of FL without special privileges...
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: roamer_1 on May 02, 2023, 11:37:09 pm
That may be.  But it's not what prompted the Governor's and statehouse's actions against Disney.   We know this because the governor admitted in his book, during speeches, at press conferences, etc. that the actions taken were in direct response to Disney's vocal, woke opposition to the  "Don't Say Gay" law.

This sure appears to be quintessential government retaliation in contradiction to First Amendment rights.

No, not 'it may be'... It IS. And what prompted it don't mean shit to me. Whatever prompted this governor and this legislature to quit looking the other way is beside the point. What matters is that they are no longer looking the other way. And rightly.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 03, 2023, 01:00:24 am
No, not 'it may be'... It IS. And what prompted it don't mean shit to me.

But it does to the law and the Supremes.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: roamer_1 on May 03, 2023, 02:46:11 am
But it does to the law and the Supremes.

Don't really care - It is a state issue.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Hoodat on May 03, 2023, 03:21:14 am
The state's retaliation in response to a corporation's First Amendment rights is a no-no.  :nono:

Again, how was the First Amendment violated?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Hoodat on May 03, 2023, 03:24:05 am
What bullcrap. Disney owning the members of its oversight board is the issue that needs remedy. And that oversight board giving Disney total control in perpetuity with no grounds for the state is a travesty that will not stand, SCOTUS or not.

Correct.
Title: Re: Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson responds to DeSantis' row with Disney, says it'
Post by: Hoodat on May 03, 2023, 03:32:46 am
This sure appears to be quintessential government retaliation in contradiction to First Amendment rights.

This sounds like some sort of left wing bullshit one would hear from MSNBC.  Oh wait, it is left wing bullshit that came from MSNBC:

Quote
DeSantis is wrong. Disney merely expressed a contrary opinion. And expressing that opinion is protected by the First Amendment. The governor’s campaign of retaliation for exercising that right in turn violates that law.

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/desantis-disney-first-amendment-rights-unconstitutional-rcna81974

Is this you, Jazzhead?