The Briefing Room

General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: NavyCanDo on August 30, 2015, 03:47:39 pm

Title: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: NavyCanDo on August 30, 2015, 03:47:39 pm

One more great debate performance by Dr. Ben Carson, and this cap can close to within the margin of error real fast. 

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-08-29/ben-carson-edging-close-to-front-runner-trump-in-latest-iowa-poll

(http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l545/Baseballdad2/Other/Iowa%20Poll.png)

Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: jmyrlefuller on August 30, 2015, 04:00:50 pm
Best possible solution.

Carson isn't going to win either, but if he unseats Trump atop the polls, it could sap Trump's campaign of its prime asset (attention) and send it into a death spiral.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: DCPatriot on August 30, 2015, 04:24:33 pm
Best possible solution.

Carson isn't going to win either, but if he unseats Trump atop the polls, it could sap Trump's campaign of its prime asset (attention) and send it into a death spiral.

"If"...will never happen.   Goes against the laws of physics. 

Have you noticed that Ben Carson will NOT criticize Donald Trump to any degree?  Neither does Cruz.

They're the GOP's Three Amigos.  Or, 'Holy Trinity', to some I would imagine.    :laugh:
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: NavyCanDo on August 30, 2015, 05:16:24 pm
"If"...will never happen.   Goes against the laws of physics. 

 :laugh:

Question for you.   Who was ahead in the Iowa polls in August 2011 the same distance out from the election we are now?   As you say the laws of physics say Romney winning the Nomination was an impossibility.    So if you are counting Carson, or any of the other candidates out this early, you really don't know as much about elections as you think.

(http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l545/Baseballdad2/Other/Iowa%20Caucus.png)

Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: bkepley on August 30, 2015, 05:28:08 pm
Question for you.   Who was ahead in the Iowa polls in August 2011 the same distance out from the election we are now?   As you say the laws of physics say Romney winning the Nomination was an impossibility.    So if you are counting Carson, or any of the other candidates out this early, you really don't know as much about elections as you think.

(http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l545/Baseballdad2/Other/Iowa%20Caucus.png)

I would count him out but not for VP although he would be a controversial choice.  Trump might as well choose him since Trump has no experience either.  In fact for Trump it would make perfect sense.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: NavyCanDo on August 30, 2015, 05:54:50 pm
Point I'm making is the Iowa Polls or even national polls this early mean very little. We only have one debate behind us, out of many, and a very long  campaign cycle ahead of us. For anyone to say "sorry losers, if your candidate  is not Trump your odds of winning Iowa is beyond the laws of physics", does not pay close attention to politics, or has a very short memory. Carson, Fiorina, Rubio, Cruz, Bush, among others have a good chance of being the winner in Iowa or be the eventual nominated candidate - and that can be backed up by history. The laws of physics at this point still say to ignore the polls, because the nomination is anyone's prize  for the taking.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: Free Vulcan on August 30, 2015, 06:18:15 pm
Point I'm making is the Iowa Polls or even national polls this early mean very little. We only have one debate behind us, out of many, and a very long  campaign cycle ahead of us. For anyone to say "sorry losers, if your candidate  is not Trump your odds of winning Iowa is beyond the laws of physics", does not pay close attention to politics, or has a very short memory. Carson, Fiorina, Rubio, Cruz, Bush, among others have a good chance of being the winner in Iowa or be the eventual nominated candidate - and that can be backed up by history. The laws of physics at this point still say to ignore the polls, because the nomination is anyone's prize  for the taking.

Absolutely true. Remember how shifty things were the last time till it settled on Santorum. Iowa is near equal parts of socon, libertarian, and tea party conservative with a sizeable but smaller representation of moderate GOP voters in the urban areas. Iowans are looking for both a winner and someone who will express and hold to their ideals. As you implied, as the news, events and debates roll out, things will shift depending on the fallout, especially with this many good candidates to pick from. Fiorina and Carson are good examples of how things can change rapidly depending on what that candidate does to distinguish themselvves.

Also remember that Iowa doesn't pick the nominee. What they really do is weed out the wannabes. Anyone who can finish strong in the top 5 and especially top 3 will be sitting good for moving on the NH and SC. For those that don't it will be gut check time.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: Carling on August 30, 2015, 07:44:41 pm
The most interesting part of the poll is that Trump's favorability rating in Iowa has gone from 35% in May to 61% now.  If this trend continues in other states, he's the nominee.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: NavyCanDo on August 30, 2015, 09:05:34 pm
The most interesting part of the poll is that Trump's favorability rating in Iowa has gone from 35% in May to 61% now.  If this trend continues in other states, he's the nominee.

Favorability  ratings are far different than asking who in this list of candidates do you most support, and in that list there is a 7 point spread between Carson and Trump, and 10 between Trump and Walker per realclearpolitics. 

You have to understand how favorability ratings work.
Gallup ask the favorability question this way:
Donald Trump    • Favorable  • Unfavorable  • Never heard of  • No opinion

So you can select Favorable on Trump, because you think the issues he brings to the table are good ones, but you are a solid supporter of another candidate.  I have heard countless people confess this on talk radio and on FOX, and why he has such a huge number in Fav polls.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: Carling on August 30, 2015, 10:06:05 pm
Favorability  ratings are far different than asking who in this list of candidates do you most support, and in that list there is a 7 point spread between Carson and Trump, and 10 between Trump and Walker per realclearpolitics. 

You have to understand how favorability ratings work.
Gallup ask the favorability question this way:
Donald Trump    • Favorable  • Unfavorable  • Never heard of  • No opinion

So you can select Favorable on Trump, because you think the issues he brings to the table are good ones, but you are a solid supporter of another candidate.  I have heard countless people confess this on talk radio and on FOX, and why he has such a huge number in Fav polls.

I know how they work.  My post was intended for a specific poster who was going on and on about how low Trump's favorability was in past  GOP polling, which meant it was impossible for Trump to be the nominee because 65% of primary voters found him unfavorable.  His initials are LG, and I'd expect him to now agree that the Trump clownshow could actually win the nomination, based on his previous logic.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: jmyrlefuller on August 30, 2015, 10:39:47 pm
I know how they work.  My post was intended for a specific poster who was going on and on about how low Trump's favorability was in past  GOP polling, which meant it was impossible for Trump to be the nominee because 65% of primary voters found him unfavorable.  His initials are LG, and I'd expect him to now agree that the Trump clownshow could actually win the nomination, based on his previous logic.
The question is, what's changed? Why have so many Republicans been won over?
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: kevindavis007 on August 30, 2015, 10:48:17 pm
I believe in 2007 at this time McCain was down and out..
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: bkepley on August 30, 2015, 10:51:23 pm
The question is, what's changed? Why have so many Republicans been won over?

It's been going on for years.  Finally they have a demagogue to focus on who seems to be taken seriously.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: Carling on August 30, 2015, 10:55:03 pm
The question is, what's changed? Why have so many Republicans been won over?

My opinion is that GOP voters are so used to milquetoast candidates who allow the media to set the narrative that the Carsons, Trumps, and Cruzes bring some fight and a breath of fresh air to many of us. I don't support Trump, but I'd vote for him if he's the nominee.  I suppose I view his style and tactics favorably, if not Trump himself.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: Carling on August 30, 2015, 10:56:28 pm
It's been going on for years.  Finally they have a demagogue to focus on who seems to be taken seriously.

An unserious answer from an unserious poster.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: EdinVA on August 30, 2015, 11:00:20 pm
I like Carson for lotsa reasons but he just does not strike me a tough enough to take on hillary/biden/who ever the run.
I would like to see him take the reign of the federal health stuff (VA/NIH/etc) and clean house.  Perfect guy for that.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: bkepley on August 30, 2015, 11:01:04 pm
An unserious answer from an unserious poster.
I'm not a professional.  Just a concerned person but my opinions are important to me.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: sinkspur on August 30, 2015, 11:38:00 pm
My opinion is that GOP voters are so used to milquetoast candidates who allow the media to set the narrative that the Carsons, Trumps, and Cruzes bring some fight and a breath of fresh air to many of us. I don't support Trump, but I'd vote for him if he's the nominee.  I suppose I view his style and tactics favorably, if not Trump himself.

You like his style and tactics?  Really?

He lies, never gives any facts, talks about himself, points to polls as proof of his viability (if polls turn against him, he's dead, by his criteria), and is now in favor of tax increases. 

Donald Trump is a Democrat, you just refuse to realize or recognize that. I will never vote for a Democrat, and I will never vote for Donald Trump for anything.

I refuse to be a sap.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: Scottftlc on August 30, 2015, 11:41:26 pm
The question is, what's changed? Why have so many Republicans been won over?

They are largely being won over by Trump's brashness, lack of fear and willingness to attack.  It is his tactics, his method and his willingness to brashly take on the media and political correctness that is winning for him. It has nothing to do with his personality, temperament or position on issues.  Republicans are so used to be out-manuevered, outflanked and hammered essentially senseless by the socialist democrat movement that this is very appealing.  Trump appears unafraid...of the media, of any other candidate, of the elite in Washington, of the political party apparatus, of pretty much everything.

Republicans are used to candidates that are a part of "the system" and are much more interested in getting along to go along. Remember Bush at the end of his presidency when he desperately needed to fight? He acted like he wanted to retire while the Democrats ruthlessly destroyed him.  That is what Republicans are used to...letting the other side set and drive the agenda and letting the media define THEM.  Trump is nothing like that for all his flaws and faults.  He is like what Lincoln said about Grant under tremendous pressure to relieve the highly unsavory but successful general: "I can't do without him, he fights."

That is what has changed...as unsavory as you might think him, he fights.  And that is why he is winning.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: sinkspur on August 30, 2015, 11:46:02 pm
They are largely being won over by Trump's brashness, lack of fear and willingness to attack.  It is his tactics, his method and his willingness to brashly take on the media and political correctness that is winning for him. It has nothing to do with his personality, temperament or position on issues.  Republicans are so used to be out-manuevered, outflanked and hammered essentially senseless by the socialist democrat movement that this is very appealing.  Trump appears unafraid...of the media, of any other candidate, of the elite in Washington, of the political party apparatus, of pretty much everything.

Republicans are used to candidates that are a part of "the system" and are much more interested in getting along to go along. Remember Bush at the end of his presidency when he desperately needed to fight? He acted like he wanted to retire while the Democrats ruthlessly destroyed him.  That is what Republicans are used to...letting the other side set and drive the agenda and letting the media define THEM.  Trump is nothing like that for all his flaws and faults.  He is like what Lincoln said about Grant under tremendous pressure to relieve the highly unsavory but successful general: "I can't do without him, he fights."

That is what has changed...as unsavory as you might think him, he fights.  And that is why he is winning.

So he's fighting for Democrat positions, except on immigration and 24% of Republicans are getting sucked in by his "fight"? 

75% of the GOP aren't fooled by this charlatan. He can't win if 75% of the party opposes him, and they do.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: Scottftlc on August 30, 2015, 11:47:42 pm
You like his style and tactics?  Really?

He lies, never gives any facts, talks about himself, points to polls as proof of his viability (if polls turn against him, he's dead, by his criteria), and is now in favor of tax increases. 

Donald Trump is a Democrat, you just refuse to realize or recognize that. I will never vote for a Democrat, and I will never vote for Donald Trump for anything.

I refuse to be a sap.

You may be absolutely right about everything you say - I am not passing judgement on that - but a milquetoast, careful, safe, timid candidate will not win. If the Republicans put up a Jeb Bush or John Kasich they will lose, literally everyone, everywhere can see that even this far out.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: Carling on August 30, 2015, 11:49:52 pm
You like his style and tactics?  Really?

He lies, never gives any facts, talks about himself, points to polls as proof of his viability (if polls turn against him, he's dead, by his criteria), and is now in favor of tax increases. 

Donald Trump is a Democrat, you just refuse to realize or recognize that. I will never vote for a Democrat, and I will never vote for Donald Trump for anything.

I refuse to be a sap.

Please stop telling me what I think.  It's been happening a lot on this board toward anyone who isn't rabidly opposed to the Trump Clownshow.  I don't call you names or assume what you think, and I would like it reciprocated.  This place is turning as ugly as TOS.  I joined here to get away from ad hominem arguments.

I am favorable toward Trump's abrasive style, and I love his tactic of completely calling out the liberal media.  That said, nowhere have I posted that I'm a supporter of him in the primaries, and in my post you quoted, I stated I don't view him as a person favorably.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: Scottftlc on August 30, 2015, 11:50:44 pm

75% of the GOP aren't fooled by this charlatan. He can't win if 75% of the party opposes him, and they do.

75% of GOP voters are not insider, "high information" voters...like Democrats they vote in national elections on feel...so on this point I think you are very, very wrong.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: sinkspur on August 30, 2015, 11:52:58 pm
You may be absolutely right about everything you say - I am not passing judgement on that - but a milquetoast, careful, safe, timid candidate will not win. If the Republicans put up a Jeb Bush or John Kasich they will lose, literally everyone, everywhere can see that even this far out.

So you think it's got to be Trump or Cruz, both of whom would lose Hispanics and women in major numbers.

I think any Republican can capitalize on the prevarications and dishonesty of Hillary Clinton, as she will be the nominee.  She is fatally flawed and will lose independents in massive numbers.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: Carling on August 30, 2015, 11:56:04 pm
75% of GOP voters are not insider, "high information" voters...like Democrats they vote in national elections on feel...so on this point I think you are very, very wrong.

My entire point was that 61% of Iowan GOP members now view Trump favorably.  If that trend continues in other states, then sinkspur's apparently made up number of 75% of primary voters not ever voting for Trump is even more suspect.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: Fishrrman on August 30, 2015, 11:57:03 pm
Excellent analysis in post 18 above!
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: Carling on August 31, 2015, 12:01:04 am
So you think it's got to be Trump or Cruz, both of whom would lose Hispanics and women in major numbers.

I think any Republican can capitalize on the prevarications and dishonesty of Hillary Clinton, as she will be the nominee.  She is fatally flawed and will lose independents in massive numbers.

Where did he say it had to be either Trump or Cruz?  You are arguing things that no one but you is posting.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: Scottftlc on August 31, 2015, 12:04:16 am
So you think it's got to be Trump or Cruz, both of whom would lose Hispanics and women in major numbers.

I think any Republican can capitalize on the prevarications and dishonesty of Hillary Clinton, as she will be the nominee.  She is fatally flawed and will lose independents in massive numbers.

I don't know who I think it is going to be...I can only say who I am certain it will not be.  It will not be Bush and it will not be Kasich (it won't be Christie or Huckabee or Jindal either, but that sort of goes without saying). They are fatally flawed for reasons both entirely different and somewhat similar to Hillary.  It is wide open and perhaps we don't even know all the candidates yet.

I will say this however...if pandering to the Hispanic vote and assuming the women's vote must be monolithic are the deciding factors (you list those prominently above), then the race is doomed to failure anyway. Hispanics and left-wing women are far too socialist in political philosophy to ever move to the Republican side...unless the Republican side joins the Democrats and embraces their socialist philosophy.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: sinkspur on August 31, 2015, 12:06:03 am
My entire point was that 61% of Iowan GOP members now view Trump favorably.  If that trend continues in other states, then sinkspur's apparently made up number of 75% of primary voters not ever voting for Trump is even more suspect.
75% of GOP voters are not insider, "high information" voters...like Democrats they vote in national elections on feel...so on this point I think you are very, very wrong.

Well, obviously, I think those who are supporting Trump are the ones voting on "feel."  The ones who support other candidates like their issues or that they're not a blowhard Democrat liar.

Trumpians are gullible, easily sucked in by a personality. That they don't care what he proposes or believes reminds me of the guy who gets in a cab and says "Take me some place good."
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: sinkspur on August 31, 2015, 12:07:46 am
My entire point was that 61% of Iowan GOP members now view Trump favorably.  If that trend continues in other states, then sinkspur's apparently made up number of 75% of primary voters not ever voting for Trump is even more suspect.

If 61% of Iowa voters really like Trump, why doesn't he have 61% of the Republican caucus support?

Favorability does not equal a vote.  I like Rand Paul, but would never vote for him. 
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: sinkspur on August 31, 2015, 12:09:15 am
Where did he say it had to be either Trump or Cruz?  You are arguing things that no one but you is posting.

Scottific seems to be arguing that it's got to be bomb thrower.  Those are the only two in the GOP field.

Most Republicans, in my view, will NOT vote for a bomb thrower.  I will not, under any circumstances.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 31, 2015, 12:11:22 am
75% of the GOP aren't fooled by this charlatan.

With all due respect....your assertion is nonsense at best, fabrication at worst.

I don't know where you live, but if it's near NYC, I suggest you visit the Trump2016 shop in the Trump Towers.  Republicans, Independents, Democrats are standing in line for a "Make America Great Again" visor.  (And, yes, I have mine--in red )
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: bkepley on August 31, 2015, 12:13:18 am
Scottific seems to be arguing that it's got to be bomb thrower.  Those are the only two in the GOP field.

Most Republicans, in my view, will NOT vote for a bomb lthrower.  I will not, under any circumstances.

Bomb throwers indeed.  The new Right sounds like the old left.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 31, 2015, 12:13:36 am
Trumpians are gullible, easily sucked in by a personality.   

Whatever helps you sleep nights.   :smokin:
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: sinkspur on August 31, 2015, 12:17:04 am
With all due respect....your assertion is nonsense at best, fabrication at worst.

I don't know where you live, but if it's near NYC, I suggest you visit the Trump2016 shop in the Trump Towers.  Republicans, Independents, Democrats are standing in line for a "Make America Great Again" visor.  (And, yes, I have mine--in red )

So now our gauge for Trumpian support is who is buying Trump's Chinese-made crap. 

And you call my assertion nonsense. 

Trump is now supporting tax increases. He supports Planned Parenthood, and thinks it's a great idea to spend $300 billion rounding up and shipping 11 billion illegals across the border to who-the-hell-knows-where?

Do you Trump supporters actually know what this clown is proposing?
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: Scottftlc on August 31, 2015, 12:17:06 am
Scottific seems to be arguing that it's got to be bomb thrower.  Those are the only two in the GOP field.

Most Republicans, in my view, will NOT vote for a bomb thrower.  I will not, under any circumstances.

Bomb thrower is your own definition. I believe it will need to be someone who will fight and go on the attack against social and political "norms" and biases...such as political correctness and the political sclerosis that comes from uber-money and crony capitalism.  Someone who will both take on the established media and go over their heads.  A McConnell, Boehner, Bush or Kasich type will be spit out by the voters for being lukewarm (to torture a bible phrase). If that means a bomb thrower...label away.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: sinkspur on August 31, 2015, 12:17:46 am
Whatever helps you sleep nights.   :smokin:

I sleep great at night, knowing I will never vote for Donald Trump, even if he is the GOP nominee.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: sinkspur on August 31, 2015, 12:20:38 am
Bomb thrower is your own definition. I believe it will need to be someone who will fight and go on the attack against social and political "norms" and biases...such as political correctness and the political sclerosis that comes from uber-money and crony capitalism.  Someone who will both take on the established media and go over their heads.  A McConnell, Boehner, Bush or Kasich type will be spit out by the voters for being lukewarm (to torture a bible phrase). If that means a bomb thrower...label away.

Yes, a bomb thrower who refuses to renounce Planned Parenthood even when shown videos that prove full fetal post-birth abortion, who wants to raise taxes, and who somehow thinks the American public would support paying for rounding up 11 million illegals and shipping them..........where? 

It doesn't matter what he proposes, does it? As long as he proposes it strongly, crudely, and often.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 31, 2015, 12:20:55 am
I sleep great at night, knowing I will never vote for Donald Trump, even if he is the GOP nominee.

Good.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: libertybele on August 31, 2015, 12:21:37 am
Well, obviously, I think those who are supporting Trump are the ones voting on "feel."  The ones who support other candidates like their issues or that they're not a blowhard Democrat liar.

Trumpians are gullible, easily sucked in by a personality. That they don't care what he proposes or believes reminds me of the guy who gets in a cab and says "Take me some place good."

Trump supporters are voting on issues; the primary one being a non-establishment candidate and the second big issue being illegal immigration. He has also touched on issues of the economy and China. Trump hit a nerve with the public; not just GOP voters, but independents and DEMS. 

Whether you like Trump or not he has managed to take on the anti-establishment and media at the same time.  Obviously there hasn't been much focus on the other candidates because he has dominated the media and that's a good thing...he has taken the heat off of them. 

The next debate will be on September 16 and I have a hunch that it will get the same attention as the first debate.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: bkepley on August 31, 2015, 12:22:38 am
You guys can whine and squall all you want but the truth is as long as a demagogue shoves a sacrifice your way you will love it.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: sinkspur on August 31, 2015, 12:24:00 am
Trump supporters are voting on issues; the primary one being a non-establishment candidate and the second big issue being illegal immigration. He has also touched on issues of the economy and China. Trump hit a nerve with the public; not just GOP voters, but independents and DEMS. 

Whether you like Trump or not he has managed to take on the anti-establishment and media at the same time.  Obviously there hasn't been much focus on the other candidates because he has dominated the media and that's a good thing...he has taken the heat off of them. 

The next debate will be on September 16 and I have a hunch that it will get the same attention as the first debate.

You are being played. I hope and pray you realize that sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: speekinout on August 31, 2015, 12:26:52 am
I sleep great at night, knowing I will never vote for Donald Trump, even if he is the GOP nominee.

If the general election is between hillary & Trump, you won't vote for Trump even though that means hillary would more likely be next President?
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: sinkspur on August 31, 2015, 12:28:14 am
If the general election is between hillary & Trump, you won't vote for Trump even though that means hillary would more likely be next President?

When the choice is between two Democrats, I choose to vote for neither.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: libertybele on August 31, 2015, 12:29:27 am
As for Carson rising in the polls;  He has absolutely no political experience.  No business experience.  His rise in the polls only shows the disdain that the American public has for the political establishment/ aka Washington cartel.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: speekinout on August 31, 2015, 12:31:28 am
When the choice is between two Democrats, I choose to vote for neither.

Just hypothetically, if the two members of the dim party were a true socialist vs. a liberal leaning moderate, you would still not express a choice?
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: sinkspur on August 31, 2015, 12:40:18 am
Just hypothetically, if the two members of the dim party were a true socialist vs. a liberal leaning moderate, you would still not express a choice?

There is no such thing as a liberal-leaning moderate. That's a liberal.

I'm not going to vote for Trump, OK.  Not any way, not any how.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: EdinVA on August 31, 2015, 12:45:10 am
There is no such thing as a liberal-leaning moderate. That's a liberal.

I'm not going to vote for Trump, OK.  Not any way, not any how.

No one has tried to convince you to vote for Trump, they are just defending their posts from your never ending assaults.
If you don't want to vote, don't.
But would you please post something different than the previous monotonous hundreds of posts?
We got it, you hate trump...
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: Bigun on August 31, 2015, 12:50:15 am
No one has tried to convince you to vote for Trump, they are just defending their posts from your never ending assaults.
If you don't want to vote, don't.
But would you please post something different than the previous monotonous hundreds of posts?
We got it, you hate trump...

Trump is just the latest on his hate parade. Let's cut to the chase and realize that he hates anyone and anything that isn't 100% GOPe certified!
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: libertybele on August 31, 2015, 12:52:50 am
You are being played. I hope and pray you realize that sooner rather than later.

I never said I am a Trump fan or supporter; all I have simply stated is that he has taken the focus off of the other candidates.  I view that as a good thing considering how it was the MSM the crucified Palin when McCain was running and they had a field day with Gingrich.  GOPe candidates have run the past two elections and lost.  There is no doubt that people are sick and tired of the Washington establishment.  The voters handed the majority to the GOP establishment and those elected officials have done nothing.  Quite the opposite ... McConnell and Boehner have chosen to side with the DEMS.

The only ones being played are those that believe that there is a difference between the GOP establishment and the DEMS; in fact they've been played for decades.

I would rather take my chances with Trump than with Bush or Christie as both represent continuing in the same destructive direction AND granting amnesty.  This country cannot continue on the same pathway and survive period.

I am a huge Cruz supporter and I feel he has more to offer this country and is more qualified than any of the other candidates.



Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: sinkspur on August 31, 2015, 12:59:29 am
No one has tried to convince you to vote for Trump, they are just defending their posts from your never ending assaults.
If you don't want to vote, don't.
But would you please post something different than the previous monotonous hundreds of posts?
We got it, you hate trump...

Yes I do hate Trump and I am going to continue to voice that sentiment.  Republicans are falling for the siren song of a Democrat who's feeding his ego by running for president.

You are free to pass over my posts as, if you've noticed, I've passed over most of yours.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: libertybele on August 31, 2015, 01:42:58 am
Yes I do hate Trump and I am going to continue to voice that sentiment.  Republicans are falling for the siren song of a Democrat who's feeding his ego by running for president.

You are free to pass over my posts as, if you've noticed, I've passed over most of yours.

Ok.  So you hate Trump. I can't say that I hate him, I am just not a fan nor a supporter.  But, at the end of the day and what is blatantly obvious is the disdain that voters have for the GOPe and their candidates. That isn't going to change.  I personally feel that Trump jumped in to take out Bush.  He is the only one with enough money to do it.  Either Clinton has him in her pocket OR he legitimately wants to take this country in a different direction. 

I hate the GOPe candidates as much as you hate Trump.  Obviously the polls are indicating them same.

The ONLY candidate who is qualified, who has experience, that is a Constitutional CONSERVATIVE, who has backbone, who is well educated, who will fight for what is best for this country and who will tell the truth is Ted Cruz. 

Take ANY of the candidates running and compare them to Cruz...there isn't any other candidate out there that can match him.

Regardless of who you like or who I like, I am 100% certain that this country cannot continue in the same direction and survive.

Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on August 31, 2015, 03:33:10 am
GOPe candidates have run the past two elections and lost.

We actually did pretty good in 2010 and 2014.  It's not uncommon for a President to serve 2 terms.

Quote
There is no doubt that people are sick and tired of the Washington establishment.
 

There is no doubt some people are sick and tired of the Washington establishment.  A minority of the GOP.

Quote
The voters handed the majority to the GOP establishment and those elected officials have done nothing. 

The people who are sick and tired of the Washington establishment(A minority of the GOP) fought tooth and nail to take out the Establishment last year during the primaries, and again after McConnell and Boehner were sworn in, and again in Boehner's case just last month.  Why do the anti-establishment guys always fail?  Because they represent a small fraction of the GOP.

Quote
Quite the opposite ... McConnell and Boehner have chosen to side with the DEMS.

The only ones being played are those that believe that there is a difference between the GOP establishment and the DEMS; in fact they've been played for decades.

Balderdash.

Quote
I would rather take my chances with Trump than with Bush or Christie as both represent continuing in the same destructive direction AND granting amnesty.  This country cannot continue on the same pathway and survive period.

I am a huge Cruz supporter and I feel he has more to offer this country and is more qualified than any of the other candidates.

I like Cruz's approach to immigration.  Fast tracking legal immigration to supplant the illegal immigration makes sense.
Your vote - your country.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: olde north church on August 31, 2015, 12:51:56 pm
You guys can whine and squall all you want but the truth is as long as a demagogue shoves a sacrifice your way you will love it.

Do you identify with typical RINO faccidity?
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: libertybele on August 31, 2015, 01:12:59 pm
We actually did pretty good in 2010 and 2014.  It's not uncommon for a President to serve 2 terms.
 

There is no doubt some people are sick and tired of the Washington establishment.  A minority of the GOP.

The people who are sick and tired of the Washington establishment(A minority of the GOP) fought tooth and nail to take out the Establishment last year during the primaries, and again after McConnell and Boehner were sworn in, and again in Boehner's case just last month.  Why do the anti-establishment guys always fail?  Because they represent a small fraction of the GOP.

Balderdash.

I like Cruz's approach to immigration.  Fast tracking legal immigration to supplant the illegal immigration makes sense.
Your vote - your country.  Good luck.

The GOPRINO's have lost the last two PRESIDENTIAL elections.  Yes the RINOGOP were handed the majority in Congress and once again the GOPRINO's have done NOTHING! As for McConnell and Boehner they are BOTH jackasses and LIARS! As Cruz so truthfully pointed out; there is no difference between McConnell and Harry Reid.  Boehner always caves to the DEMS.  If you really think that the GOPe is going to keep their majority with their continued siding with the DEMS you are dreaming.  Yes, agreed the "Washington Cartel" is alive and well and that is why Trump is ahead in the polls.

Cruz has always been against illegal immigration and he led the coalition against the "gang of eight" and was one of the few Republicans to openly oppose Obama's executive amnesty. The GOPe did NOTHING. He believes border security should be tripled with boots on the ground and has received quite a backlash for his statement of utilizing the left over land mines that we have and placing them at the border...he has always been a proponent for a secured border fence. 

https://www.conservativereview.com/2016-presidential-candidates/candidates/ted-cruz#article-11

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Ted_Cruz.htm

https://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/135705/ted-cruz/40/immigration#.VeRRb5fuua8

http://realnewsrightnow.com/2015/03/23/ted-cruz-announces-presidential-bid-pledges-to-secure-u-s-border-with-land-mines/
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: olde north church on August 31, 2015, 01:39:10 pm
Today's lesson:  Compare and contrast Speaker Pelosi's success to Speaker Boehner's ineffectual, impotent "leadership".
Title: Re: Ben Carson Edging Close to Front-Runner Trump in Latest Iowa Poll
Post by: Free Vulcan on August 31, 2015, 03:16:10 pm
Trump is doing well because he's showing spine on issues that conservatives care about and standing up to the media and anyone else (except Hillary) that challenges him. He appeals directly to the red meat folks that put that above all else. He's also not establishment, which I believe also has helped Carson and Fiorina. After the '14 victory yielding bumpkis for conservatives because the GOP won't stand up to Obama, people are real tired of the same old do-nothing politics. Thank Boehner and McConnell in for the majority of voter attitudes in that regard.

The only real way to bring Trumpdown is for other candidates to both step up with the same kind of spine while poking holes in Trump's credibility by pointing out the inconsistencies in his statements over the years. Even then there will be a die hard core of supporters that will never give up on him, which is what makes him most dangerous if he runs third party. The only way around that is for someone to stand out strongly and capture that frustration away from Trump somehow. Who that will be right now is up for grabs.

It's still early in Iowa with lots of debates still ahead. I expect the ground to shift alot till caucus day, especially if Trump stumbles in the debates. I think this is going to be a fun political cycle for the junkies.